bush up by 7 points in wv

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

August 28, 2004
Poll shows Bush gaining ground in West Virginia


By Tom Searls
Staff writer

Seen as a battleground state, West Virginia has continued to swing back and forth in presidential preference polls, but recent negative “swift boat” ads may be taking a toll on the Democratic nominee’s support.

West Virginia is one of the few battle states where dramatic change has taken place in the past three weeks, a Zogby Interactive poll showed. Democratic nominee Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., is holding on to his lead in most of the 16 states Zogby’s describes as battleground states.

But in West Virginia, Republican President Bush has gone from trailing by four points on Aug. 3, to leading by seven points in an Aug. 23 poll, said Shawnta Watson Walcott, a Zogby spokeswoman.

- advertisement-

“That’s a tremendous turnaround from Aug. 3,” Walcott said. “So, it sounds like those swift boat ads are actually working.”

Zogby’s latest poll had Bush with 49 percent, Kerry with 42 and 9 percent undecided. Kerry had led 48 percent to 44 percent in the Aug. 3 poll. In the July 16 Zogby poll, Bush led Kerry in West Virginia 51 percent to 44 percent.

“A poll, like any poll, is a snapshot in time and there will be more before Election Day,” said Mary Diamond, Bush-Cheney West Virginia spokeswoman. “We’ve always said it would be a close election.”

State residents are some of the few that have seen and heard the two-week commercial blitz that accuses Kerry of being a person in quest of winning medals during his Vietnam War service as commander of a Navy swift boat.

Last week, a poll released by the National Annenberg Election Survey reported more than half the country has heard about or seen TV ads attacking Kerry’s war record, the Chicago Tribune reported, noting that is “a remarkable impact for ads that have appeared in only a handful of states.”

Kerry has disputed the truth of the ads, which are being funded mainly by a longtime supporter of Bush, and run by the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. Bush has declined to specifically condemn the ads.

“At the end of the ballgame, it’s going to backfire on them,” said Amy Schuler Goodwin, Kerry-Edwards campaign spokeswoman for West Virginia.

more at:
http://www.wvgazette.com/section/News/2004082742

[still_one]

1. The problem is that CNN and other networks gave free airtime to the ad

[doc03]

24. Exactly I live in Ohio just 8 miles from WV I haven't seen the ad

but it has got free air time on the cable channels 24-7. I am listening to Tim Russert on CNBC right now and he has reporters from Time and Newsweek if you believe them Kerry is finished because of the Swift Boat Liers.

[Gloria]

26. Yeah, I posted about Carney and Meacham in a thread about "idiots"

They were using the CNN poll, which is bogus....based on polling, talking to analysts, and ad buys. No margin of error quoted because it's a mess...

We've seen here that now half think Bush is behind the ads and those who believe them dropped from 30is % down to 24%....Believers must all be in WV!! And guys from Time and Newsweek don't keep up with the news...

[spooky3]

47. Yep, I live in VA and have never seen the ads but have seen countless

media stories on the ads, most of which did NOT tell the relevant facts.

[Bozita]

2. And the unemployment rate in WV is ???

Thomas (What's the Matter with Kansas?) Frank is right.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[theHandpuppet]

15. Ditto!

What a snobbish, ignorant remark.

What Kerry needs -- and what Al Gore failed to do -- was grab the vote of the populous Eastern panhandle. Bush just made a well-publicized visit here... Kerry or Edwards need to do the same. West Virginia CAN go Dem if their people are treated with RESPECT, and part of that is not ignoring their votes!

[spooky3]

48. would love to see Kerry, Edwards, AND Clark visit WV soon

[Cha]

49. ANd that beautiful Byrd!

[barb162]

50. he's the best

and one of the few to actively speak against and vote against the Iraq war

[Columbia]

5. Geez, no wonder they don't want to vote for a Dem

Now we know why there are so many red states in mid-America. We do such a great job of courting their votes by calling them drunk hicks.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

6. not to mention demonizing welfare recipients

once again playing into the old newt gingrich idea that all welfare recipients are lazy drunkards who don't want to work

[Hubert Flottz]

8. Most "Welfare" goes to Corporations now!

They need all the help they can get the GOPers claim!

[Columbia]

11. Precisely

It's doublely shameful that we don't do right by them by having a healthy economy with jobs and that we don't help them enough when the jobs just aren't there.

It's tripley shameful to then blame them for the failures of the system.

[lanparty]

38. One thing I dislike about Garafolo ...

... she reverts to this method of bashing people who have been deceived. She gives VERY little thought to those listening who are on the fence.

This whole "unsophisticated" hick thing is a load of bull. Both cultures have their own sophistications. Southerners have mind bendingly elaborate recipes for BBQ. They memorize the scores of Nascar drivers and indulge in the same type of reactive poetry in country music as urbanites do in hip-hop.

One side thinks the one is "simpletons". The other thinks of "fancy pants Yankees". Both groups have their own unique sophistications. Yet both would look at aboriginal way of life as "savage". Same deal, it's just a culture clash.

[Cha]

51. I don't like it, either ...but I like it even less when

the fundies call Kerry and his supporters...the devil or whatever they say. And bush and his crowd calling out the Hollywood Liberals.

bush is the fucking divider here.

[Name removed]

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[Leilani]

14. I really resent that!

W.Va has some of the BEST people in the world, & it is people like you who hurt Dem chances in red states.

[dennis4868]

7. Can someone explain to me....

why the average person out there in TV land believes automatically what they see in a political ad?

[chromotone]

10. Well, uh...it's...it's because...well, hmmm...

It's because if it weren't true, it wouldn't be on TV...?

That's right, isn't it???

(/sarcasm)

[dennis4868]

12. I am not the smartest person....

but when I see something on TV, especially a political ad, whether it is a dem or repub ad, I never give the ad the benefit of the doubt....what is wrong with these people who are being persuaded by outright lies....can u imagine if Kerry loses the election because of the swift lies? I will cry :-(

[WVhill]

18. There's other factors besides the ads.

Gore lost here because of his anti-gun views which were widely publicized. Kerry should have taken Governor Wise's offer to hunt in the state this past spring. He missed a big opportunity to get favorable press in WV. Deer season is after the election, so the opportunity is gone.

Wise and Hamric the head of the DNR went hunting this year during turkey season. All Kerry would have had to do is tag along. A picture of Kerry holding up a jake would have been political gold in this state and possibly others. I think that was a critical mistake.

[MasonJar]

21. Why should someone have to shoot innocent live creatures in

order to get votes. I'm sorry but if people cannot see that Bush is a consummate liar and the dullest person ever to occupy the WH, they do not have their own best interests at heart.

[doc03]

25. Gore also lost because the Clinton administration after promising

to enforce the 210 trade laws failed to do so. Al Gore's environmental record also lost him the coal miners votes.

[WindRavenX]

13. 9 per cent undecided...

Lots of time for Kerry to re-claim the lead.
Don't worry; time and truth is on our side.

[Blue Wally]

16. Kerry

Kerry has been extremely negative on the use of coal as an energy source. Sen Robt Byrd (D-WV) has already taken him to task on it. Maybe kerry should come out for coal research to change it into a clean energy source. That might do some good for the WV economy.

[WVhill]

19. That is not true.

Kerry has mentioned getting more money for research on cleaner coal burning technologies when he visited West Virginia. Unfortunately that put the state environmentalists in a bind because that could increase the demand for cooal and lead to more mountaintop removals.

He made the environmentalists happy when he voted against Bryd who supports mountaintop removal mining. The other problem is that mountaintop removal doesn't employ out of work miners. It uses construction workers.

[kispoko]

20. coal...... heh

actually, kerry might get more votes if he just came right out and said 'fuck coal.' it's 'bout time somebody did, and most in-staters are tired of the coal barons and the shit they pull with their co-conspirators in the capital.


there's an on-going war in the southern counties between coal companies and those who live there, and are affected by rapidly disappearing sources of potable water, missed economic opportunities from environmental devastation (for instance, $40,000 per mile of trout stream, which is difficult to achieve when those streams are running black or too acidic), and flooding, which would otherwise either not happen to such dangerous extents at all or be mitigated without the activity of certain industry there. etcetera, it goes on.....


so yeah, fuck coal. if nobody else'll say it.......


the people are tired of being an energy colony, and seeing nothing in return but messes we have to clean up with our own money, and having our state's beauty destroyed and permanently marred.

[Hubert Flottz]

23. Amen!

Coal has gotten out of hand and they use very little manpower to mine it now! They are wrecking the state quickly!

[lanparty]

35. Uh no ...

The correct tactic is to point out that our nation sits on an incredible abundance of coal. And that coal can be turned into cleaner forms of energy via chemical processes. And those processing facilities would be located in the states that coal is mined.

So the policy should be
"Use MORE coal in CLEANER ways. Create technology that makes cars run on coal derived fuels (hydrogen ... whatever). Mine MORE coal and put the coal processing facilities IN the places where coal is mined."

Kerry should also stay AGAINST mountain top removal because it uses LESS labor than traditional methodologies. He should focus on the JOB DESTRUCTION that this causes as well as the ecological catastrophy.

[kispoko]

40. lanparty........

even the cleanest of coal, is still some of the dirtiest shit you'll ever find on earth.....

and that still doesn't address the manner in which they go about getting it, which itself is filthy, in myriad ways.....


you're right though, if anything, mountaintop removal, as other technological advances have done in that industry, just cuts jobs in mining..... but in this orwellian society we live in, people have been convinced of the opposite. war is peace, ceding liberties is freedom, and threatening mountaintop mining is threatening miners' jobs. there's actually a commercial shown in-state to that effect. and people don't seem to realize what tremendous bullshit goes into that......


but it's hardly a state phenomenon, the american people by and large have been convinced that protecting corporate interests is *their* interest, and fucking with profits is anti-business, and poisonous to the job market and the economy overall.


the biggest thing perhaps, is that as long as we're continuing to find ways of bettering antiquated technology (which i consider the burning of coal, and basically fossil fuels in general), we'll only continue to be reliant on them, instead of beginning the process of converting to alternative energy sources, which we should've been doing a long time ago. in the meanwhile, i'm certainly all for the betterment of the current system (e.g. "clean coal" technology(ies)), but let's not allow that to cloud the horizon for us so we become complacent, to fill the wishes of industry, who will leave us high and dry when their stash of coal is gone.

[lanparty]

43. Be careful when you call fossil fuel antiquated ...

...

If it were TRULY antiquated, we wouldn't use it anymore.

Our alternative fuel sources still have a way to go. I have no doubt that big oil/timber/cotton have done their best to squelch alternatives. But the free oil stored for millions of years will ALWAYS be easier and cheaper than collecting the energy the sun provides today.

[kispoko]

45. .

-If it were TRULY antiquated, we wouldn't use it anymore.


doesn't hold to logic..... amish still ride in buggies, are buggies not antiquated 'cause they still use 'em?

our american society is but a mere microcosm of a place on earth, same as that amish example i just gave, and these vary...... there *is* better technology, we just haven't taken great pains to implement it and develop it, which is the reason for our using it, not because it hasn't become antiquated. others have, however, and soon we'll become like those amish as other nations pass us technologically, relatively speaking, because we're accustomed to just accepting what they throw out for us to use........

at least the amish have better reasoning though, than our doing the bidding for the corporations to ensure there is no easy changing of the guard for them. how stupid are we?



-Our alternative fuel sources still have a way to go. I have no doubt that big oil/timber/cotton have done their best to squelch alternatives.


exactly.


-But the free oil stored for millions of years will ALWAYS be easier and cheaper than collecting the energy the sun provides today.


uh, no..... no it won't. photovoltaics will surpass that easily in time.

and perhaps it will have to, because we don't exactly have much of that "free oil" left, and we're continuing to burn it at breakneck speed....... it won't last 'til the end of the century. what then?


we should probably get started on that.....

[lanparty]

52. I agree on getting started ...

But the efficiencies of "alternative" energy sources just aren't all there yet. I'm confident that they WILL be if we invest in it. But you cannot trust to faith, you must plan to fail.

In that case, we sit on the greatest supply of coal in the world. And we should certainly invest in ways of of converting our "rock oil" into electricity and hydrogen in ways that are cleaner.

What we certainly CAN agree on is that we need a LOT more fuel efficiency out of our vehicles. We've actually been backsliding since the early 80s. And it's no wonder that we are getting creamed on fuel prices right now with all the SUV fuel guzzlers around.

I'm all for photo-voltaics. But I KNOW they won't provide all of our energy. Step one is lessening our dependence by using more "earth" power like solar panels and wind turbines that require little or no maintenance once deployed. Solar panels have an AMAZING potential since they provide peak power at times of peak energy usage. I'd be VERY happy if we could simply run all our air conditioners off the very thing that prompts us to use them, hot sunny days.

We must measure our progress in steps, not leaps. Otherwise, we are doomed to fail.

[yardwork]

37. Well said!

Part of the problem is that Appalachia's poor are so disenfranchised in so many ways, I doubt many of them get to the polls.

People who just lost their home to flooding caused by mountain top removal probably have voting low on their list of priorities. That's exactly the way Republicans want it. Keep the poor so stressed that they don't have the time to become informed or vote.

Imagine the power we could gather if all the disenfranchised people of the United States - from the inner cities to the mountains - were mobilized to make informed votes.

[Moderator]

17. ann_coulter_is_a_man

Per DU copyright rules
please post only four
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DU Moderator

[lanparty]

33. Well, her dick IS bigger than that of GW Bush ....

... But that isn't saying much.

[59millionmorons]

22. The key word is

Interactive, which equals worthless. These type of polls are not reliable. You have to sign up to take the poll and only extreme partisan sign up. Though I am sure Bush will win WV.

[DaveinMD]

27. I think

we need to see a couple more polls before making any conclusions. One poll can see very divergent results. I expect its much closer.

[hatrack]

28. OK, maybe flattening another 200,000 acres of mountains will clue them in

If West Virginia votes for Bush again, they deserve whatever they get.

[WVhill]

29. I don't think you get it.

Kerry's promotion of cleaner coal burning technologies will create a greater demand for coal leading to more mountaintop removals. Whoever gave that to him as a speaking point didn't understand the implications.

[hatrack]

30. Ah yes, "clean coal" - you need to read Barlett & Steele on this

You remember, the guys who did "America: What Went Wrong?" They had a substantial report in (I believe) US News about a year ago all about "clean" coal technology. It's one of the great underreported pork barrel scams of our lifetimes.

I'll have to scratch around and see if I can find the publication. In the mean time, I'll say that Kerry is indeed poorly informed on this issue.

[WVhill]

31. I think you're talking about the stuff the IRS is investigating.

Some companies are taking coal, spraying some oil on it and getting huge tax wrieoffs.

[lanparty]

36. You don't have to blow up mountains to get coal!!!!!!

It's just the EASY way of getting it. Just like you don't have to clear-cut to harvest wood.

There is an energy reality in this country that we are rich in coal and not so rich in oil. THAT is the reality and we must play to it.

[WVhill]

41. You are correct.

Unfortunately easy corresponds with cheap. Mountaintop mining accesses all the coal seams as the excavation strips off the overburden. Some of those layers aren't thick enough to deep mine.

[lanparty]

32. It WILL backfire ...

The whole swiftboat thing is an old hand. It's been playedout OVER and OVER and OVER again on John Kerry in the SAME way. And it has failed OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER again.

This hand was misplayed. It's a sure sign that Karl Rove cannot hold his load. He prematurely ejaculated this crap on the American public and now Kerry has plenty of time to mop it up and throw it in Bushes face.

They should have released this shit 2 weeks before the election. Than we wouldn't have time to debunk it in the publics eyes. This shit is NOTHING but lies and it WILL turn swing voters AGAINST Bush especially with the Lt Gov (ex-speaker) Barnes stuff coming out.

[Zen Democrat]

34. That's Zogby's interactive poll. It's meaningless. Not scientific at all.

[Leilani]

39. Bob Byrd has said repeatedly

that Kerry can win W Va, but he needs to go there & campaign.

And nobody knows the state like Byrd.

[theHandpuppet]

44. You said it!!

Bush is making yet ANOTHER campaign stop in WV today (Wheeling). Where the hell are Kerry & Edwards? Looks as if they are bound and determined to repeat Gore's mistake.

Want to win WV? At least show up and act like Dems give a damn about West Virginians.

[DarthDem]

46. Yes, That's It Exactly

I never understood why Gore did not campaign in West Virginia, which, of course, would have decided the election in our favor if it had gone the other way. IIRC, he dispatched Clinton there in the final week while he and Holy Joe saturated Florida, but even the Big Dog was too late at that point.

This time around we have two months left. How about an all-out ad blitz in West Virginia???? I'd also like to see at least one visit a week from Kerry or Edwards from Labor Day until Election Day. The state is very small and not difficult to campaign in - - a few rallies in Wheeling (which would also draw Ohio residents), Morgantown, Charleston, and Huntington - - perhaps also in Bluefield/Beckley if there's time - - plus ads trumpeting Kerry's specific economic plan for West Virginia would do WONDERS for his campaign. This state can win it for us all by itself, folks, and it is much, much easier to cover than, say, Missouri, due to its size and the fact that whole state's media will cover any visit. Ads are cheap, too.

Two keys: Kerry must reassure the good people of WV that he's not going to take their guns away, and he needs to meet with coal miners at least once, ideally more than once, in order to show them that pro-environment does not equate with the loss of their jobs or an adverse impact on their industry.

The campaign seems to have seized on the importance of Florida (of course) and Ohio (correcting a serious Gore miscalculation), but is ignoring West Virginia. Get out there!!!!!

[GingerSnaps]

42. Bush offered WV'ians $5.00 a month to eat on

They have to vote for him now because they don't have jobs and they can use the bean and vegetable seeds money. If they want him in they need to start planting right now.

[GreenInNC]

53. Just got back from WV

We were visiting my sister in law in Huntington and some friends in Parkersburg. They both wondered why the Dems seem to be taking them for granted.