Bush and the Military: A Personal Anecdote

[DoveTurnedHawk]

So last night, some friends and I were at our local neighborhood Irish pub, where we're regulars. It's a great little place, lots of TVs, authentic signs and decor, good food, great beer and booze selection, and of course we can't forget Karaoke night three or four times a week.

We're hanging out near the bar, when a Navy guy dressed in whites comes up near us. I said, "Hey man, thanks for serving our country, let me buy you a drink."

As we all chatted for a bit, an acquaintance from down the bar asked the Navy guy, "So what do folks in the military think of Bush?"

The Navy guy gave a thumbs up. "Oh, all of us love Bush," he gushed. "I just saw him in Pensacola the other day, did you know he wants to give us a raise? I know some taxpayers may not like that, but I was like, sure, what the hell!"

I was just astonished at the response. A million substantive responses came to mind, but the guy was pretty wasted, and obviously entrenched in his position. So I just let it go, and off he walked.

My friends and I just shook our heads, except for my one Republican friend, who said, "That's why Bush is going to win the election."

"You mean because of ignorant, brainwashed people who vote against their own interests due to Republican jingoism and propaganda? Yeah, if Bush wins, that'll be exactly the reason," I replied.

A lively debate ensued. But my God, what a buzzkill.

:puke:

On a more constructive note, I think Kerry's efforts to tailor our message toward veterans out of the service, focusing on broken promises, budget cuts and benefits, is probably the right way to go in light of the above. A lot of folks currently serving might be too far gone, but the folks who've been out of the service for a while at least have had a chance to let go some of the indoctrination.

DTH

[Sub Atomic]

1. In 1984

I voted to re-elect Ronald Reagan for the exact same reason.

I was in the Navy, and Ronnie was throwing money our way.


Being young and naive is no excuse, but calling them ignorant and brainwashed is pretty offensive.

If you look at our educational system in this country, we no longer teach civics and politics usually aren't dinner table conversation in most homes.

So next time you encounter one of these young men/women in the military who believe that their vote for Bush will better their lives, try to enlighten them about Bush's real efforts in cutting VA benefits, sending our soldiers to war without proper protective equipment, ignoring the sacrifice of those coming home injured or dead from his little follies in the Middle East, or that with him in office for another four years, that young man's generation is going to be saddled with so much debt that there will be no way possible for him or his friends to realize the American dream.

Don't give up on the young and ignorant. All you need to do is reach out and try to educate them.

Cheers

[DoveTurnedHawk]

5. The Military Is Designed to be a Brainwashing Machine

Break down individuality, up with conformity and instant obedience to authority. And ignorance is ignorance.

There's a time and place for everything. Last night wasn't the time or the place. Believe me, I know all the facts and talking points, and I'm not shy about conveying them. I'm just not interested in beating my head against the wall.

DTH

[tabasco]

2. Not too many sailors patrolling in Baghdad today.

As an Army man, my opinion is that support for Bush is weaker in the Army.

[seabeyond]

3. i am challenging ht emilitary and what is best for soldiers

going off kerry 71 speech with that war, and wes yesterday saying the x generals and other military are the ones that should have stood up, and i love wes's bush is commander in chief of the military, not the american people.

what i am saying, the flip flop truth, repugs saying to support troops vote bush, my suggestion to them, if they support bush they are not supporting troops. and the only way they can do this is because they havent taken the time to gather information and facts. when it comes to lives, our soldiers lives, not to mention, cause we dont, the iraqi lives, how irresponsible and shame on you for not taking time to get the facts. that is not supporting our troops. how dare you

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. I will take you on and COUNTER yuor argument

My husgand just retired, and he is a Navy Chief... same service... and hsi shipmates, when they shiped out for Gulf War II, they were more or less for bush, when they came back, they were more or less for ABB... after all they were at the tip of the spear with no food... or shaving kits, or toilet paper.. But Halliburton is making a killing

I am betting this young sailor is not serving overseals (pensacola sure bet), and is on a shore duty command..


What I heard at Pearl was not that sure for bush, and taht is last october

Now let me give you antoher anecdote. yeterday I went to get dinner to a local Mwxican plane. There stood a Nam Vet wearing his Purple Heart... in come one of the local private university freepers who starts questioning these Warrior's right to wear that purple heart, which hs staretd wearting on Tuesday after close to 30 years of being in a box.

Well I tore the kid a new one aince he has no right to question the right of this man to wear his decorations. Affer all was said and done freeper was stunned (I am sure he was never expecting to hear them words from people like me, middle age overweight little woman). The vet said, that until Monday he was still in the Undecid, leaning Bush, but after Monday he is for Kerry, a fellow Warrior and thanked me. I thanked him and told him, if he has any other medals he should wear them with pride, he earned them. The kid was about to say something, I just added, and this little piece of chicken hawk shit, his yellow streak as wide as the Missisipi will never understand until the draft comes a knocking and he has the honor to serve and die for uncle sam.

God I wish I could volunteer to PUSH them boots...

[DoveTurnedHawk]

6. That's Fantastic

But your story is about a vet who's out-of-the-service, which is kind of my point. :-)

DTH

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. No, my husband was still in

I am telling you the view from a United States Navy Sub.. when they went to war they were more or less for Bush, when they came back from war they were Anybody but Bush... this is a USN Command.

My husband retired last december, I was hearing the discontent at Pearl Harbor Naval Station as early as Last October.

People are not happy

One more thing, and they are seeing it... after LGEN Boykin said waht he said, that young sailor can surely get away with what he said, (which is ilegal under the Hatch Act, he is in Uniform), but you try to say you are not happy with Bush IN UNIFORM and you can expect a ton of bricks

You are giving up on them and making assumptions. The Miltiary is far more diverse than you are giving them credit and I take it you have never been in... if you were you would realize just how diverse it is... and it pretty much reflects the country. yes there are freepers there (You seem to have found one) but there are also many liberals

[DoveTurnedHawk]

12. I'm Skeptical, But I Hope You're Right

I've talked to about a dozen active-duty folks in the last year or so. All of them were for Bush.

Maybe you're right about them being too intimidated to say anything else, but I also feel that the military is a pretty ripe ground for Republican jingoism and propaganda, sadly.

DTH

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. One word next time an active troops tells you this

IN UNIFORM..

UCMJ

You mention those words and ask for his command.. you ain't trying to silence him or her, but htat is ilegal

One more thing, you have had contact with a samll segment. I lived and brehed military for the last five years of my life... three of them at Pearl Harbor Naval Station... and I can tell you things are changing so fast that this neo con conservative et al is BS...

They trend conservative, yes, especially among higher ranks, but they do not trend republican... and right now they are POed with the current chicken hawd administration, jsut that the ones oposed will not tell you this... as they know about the Hatch Act...

[cmf]

7. that reminds me of an idiot I know

My husband is in the Navy. One time we were hanging out with a couple other Navy couples and a Bush ad came on the TV. Most of us gave a thumbs down, but one moron goes, "If Kerry's elected, we won't get a payraise for the next 4 years." I asked him to back it up and he couldn't. This are the idiots that we're fighting. Fortunately, the tide is shifting. Military folks are getting more informed and opening their eyes to the truth.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. Yep and it all has to do

with the disgrace that Halliburton calls supply...

I am sure you are familiar with sending care packages with oh soap, becaue there is non in theater

[IrateCitizen]

9. Well, I just spent yesterday with Iraq Vets Against the War...

And they said that while they were all still in, opinion in the military was trending more and more against Bush. Of course, this is from talking to a bunch of Marines who saw the savages of combat, and have to live with those nightmares for the rest of their lives.

Although the military will still probably go for Bush overall, I don't think that it will be anywhere close to as decisively as it has gone for Republicans in past elections, assuming there's not vote-tampering on the part of either military or Republican officials.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. IF there is no vote tampering

I ask you to review the votes for Clinton, in 92. Just as now the talk on post back then was Clinton, now last december when we left Pearl was Wes Clarke, I am betting it is Kerry now

The military did not go for Poppy either

[JI7]

13. because they think "defense spending" refers to the troops

but it actually refers to the money going to corporations to make weapons and other things.

[VLC98]

15. Fox news on bases.

My husband is active duty AF and on our base you see nothing but Fox news on TV. It's on at the bowling alley, housing office, hospital waiting rooms, wing commander's office, IG office, family support center, MPF (personnel building), probably everywhere there's a TV. I had to sit through an hour of the crap while waiting for my husband to get his eyes checked....which never happened, as they had an emergency and only one doctor on duty, but erosion of benefits is another topic. Perhaps as a Kerry supporting family living on base we're too sensitive, but there seems to be a horrible atmosphere here. Having said that, I haven't seen many Bush bumper stickers yet, which is encouraging.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

16. that'll do it

it's the guys off base who have the only chance.

[atreides1]

18. Same Here

My wife is active duty AF, I went to the clinic, you see Davis-Monthan
doesn't have an emergency room, they shut it down before we got here.
So now if you need emergency care, you cannot go to an off base ER until you get permission from TriCare, unless it's a matter of life and death.

But I was in the clinic and lo and behold Fox news on TV, but talking to my wife it seems that 5 out of the 6 people in her office are not going to be voting for Bush. The 6th person tried to do the swift boat thing and she got slammed, and my wife thinks that they even got her thinking instead of blindly following.

As for the young sailor, perhaps he should know that his hero Bush did want a pay raise, but the amount of the raise will depend on time in service/rank. It seems that the administration only wanted to give a 2% raise to E-1's, E-2's, and O-1's. So that means that a private in the Army wouldn't get anything higher then a 2% raise until they became E-3's and a second lieutenant(O-1) would not receive a higher pay raise until they got promoted to first lieutenant(O-2).

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

17. You should go drink with Marines instead

I am often in Camp Pendleton. That is not the consensus there -although there are many brainwashed grunts, most of these people have either been or are going to Iraq. Those with jobs such as mechanic may feel that way but officers are increasingly disgusted.