CBS News on gun control

[DaveSZ]

Both Bush and Kerry say they support the AWB, but Kerry wants to ban more guns than Bush.

This will not go over well with gun owners.

[volosong]

1. KERRY IS FRICKING NUTS IF HE SAID THAT

Why try to help someone win who is determined to self-destruct?

Gun control is the best weapon to do that. If he did, kiss victory good-bye

[LisaL]

4. Well, let's just give everyone mini-nukes.

Make everybody happy. :eyes:

[FeebMaster]

7. That didn't take long.

It never fails. From assault weapons ban to nukes in just a few short posts.

[LisaL]

18. Yet you seem to think there should be no gun control.

Why not nukes then?:eyes:

[FeebMaster]

21. I didn't mention how much gun control

I support in my post, did I?


Why not nukes then?

Why don't you tell me which gun control law regulates the possession of nuclear weapons first? I mean it's pretty clear you have no interest in discussing the assault weapons ban, so we can discuss nukes if that would make you feel better.

[UpsideDownFlag]

26. youve previously told me that you're against all kinds, ever.

remember? seriously now, feeb. it gets old.

[FeebMaster]

36. Yes and I am

but what do with people whining about nuclear weapons in a thread about the AWB?

[UpsideDownFlag]

64. when you try and back out of a question by saying

you didn't mention how much gun control you support, then it matters if you've previously said you dont want any.

[FeebMaster]

67. It had nothing to do with the issue at hand.

I don't support gun control and I'm more than happy to announce it at every opportunity. How much gun control I support has nothing to do with people being unable to discuss the AWB without whining about nuclear weapons.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

35. You owe feebmaster an apology

Your post was ridiculous and out of place.

[FeebMaster]

37. I'd prefer that people give up

on nuclear weapons strawmen in assault weapons ban threads to an apology.

[Renew Deal]

33. lol

:nuke:

[cheezus]

51. well, he skipped a few

RPGS, tanks, flame throwers, short range conventional weapons, clusterbombs, etc etc

you gotta draw the line somewhere, right?

where?

[FeebMaster]

52. We've been over this in the past.

Several times I think. This thread is about the Assault Weapons Ban. Which of the things you mentioned is regulated by the assault weapons ban? Not RPGs or cluster bombs. Not tanks or flame throwers. I guess some short range conventional weapons depending how you define that.

As I've told you before RPGs and explosives are regulated as destructive devices and are regulated as heavily as machine guns.

Tanks and flame throwers aren't regulated.

[cheezus]

63. this thread isn't just about the assult weapons ban

it's about where we, as the citizens of the country, draw the line at which "arms" should and should not be allowed.

there's a range

<pooponastick -------------------------------------------------nukes>

obviously we have to draw the line SOMEWHERE in there - it's a legitimate topic for discussion

[FeebMaster]

68. Maybe you should read the first post.

Here it is in case you missed it.

CBS News on gun control

Both Bush and Kerry say they support the AWB, but Kerry wants to ban more guns than Bush.

This will not go over well with gun owners.




it's about where we, as the citizens of the country, draw the line at which "arms" should and should not be allowed.

No, apparently it's another fine demonstration that AWB supporters are incapable, for one reason or another, of discussing the AWB. My guess would be they either know the AWB is a joke and can't think of any legitimate ways to support it or they have no idea what the AWB does and just reflexively support it because it's gun control.



obviously we have to draw the line SOMEWHERE in there - it's a legitimate topic for discussion

Then start a thread about it. There have been a few in the past. This thread is about the AWB, which sunsets in less than five days.

[cheezus]

73. oh, I see

all replies in a thread in DU must be strictly about the original post, not about other issues that come up along the way

oops. sorry about that.

[FeebMaster]

74. Yeah that's great.

So jumping from the assault weapons ban to crying about nuclear weapons is a legitimate debating tactic. No wonder the AWB is sunsetting.

[demwing]

82. RPGs are regulated?

Finally. I am sick to death of role playing games, and those who role them.

Damn Fable geeks...and don't even get me started on Everquest.

;)

[Mr.Green93]

38. no one needs a machine gun to hunt traps

[UpsideDownFlag]

15. kerry is nuts for advocating gun control?

[MrBenchley]

46. Yeah, didn't you know?

Nobody wants gun control except pretty much every Democrat you've ever heard of, pretty much every liberal or moderate organization you've ever heard of, 80% of voters, and pretty much every liberal or moderate pundit you've ever heard of....

Clearly with all that's happening in the world, we ought to pander to the sort of bigoted, blinkered fuckwit who fears the Democrats are going to take away his popgun....especially since they're all also right wing pieces of shit who oppose everything sane.

All hail the gun!!

[StopTheMorans]

50. favorite. post. ever.

guns for hunting, fine. assault weapons and handguns for killing people? stupid...

[MrBenchley]

56. Fuck the gun lobby and all who pimp for them

The chairman of Smith & Wesson turned out to be a stick-up artist....the Reverend Moon owns gun factories....and the lobby panders to the scum of the earth....

"Columbine Father Challenges Cheney On Assault Weapons
"PITTSBURGH -- A man whose son was killed in the Columbine High School shootings literally walked in his child's shoes to the National Rifle Association convention, where he hoped Vice President Dick Cheney would address the federal assault weapons ban set to expire in September.
Tom Mauser, whose son Daniel was killed with an assault weapon in the Littleton, Colo., killings five years ago Tuesday, said continuing the ban is common sense.
Assault weapons "are the weapons of gangs, drug lords and sick people," Mauser said before his three-block march to the convention, which runs through Sunday. "It is a weapon of war and we don't want this war on our streets."
Mauser entered the convention hall where the NRA was meeting, but was turned away by a security guard as several conventioneers applauded. A couple of conventioneers yelled "Get a life" and "Vote for Bush." "

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/3015989/detail.html

[spanone]

28. Maybe he said it because HE MEANT IT. You want Wayne Lapiere

setting gun policy for America? Bush will let the awb expire, you watch.

[FeebMaster]

39. Watch what?

It expires in less than 5 days at this point. Most of those days are days off for Congress. If you folks really wanted it renewed, you probably should have started worrying about it a bit earlier.

[freetobegay]

2. I am a gun owner & a firm supporter of the 2nd amendment

I understand what Kerry is saying & have no problem with it. Kerry is not nuts, just a very informed person. The NRA is nuts, wacko & fucked in the head! Have I left anything out?

[FeebMaster]

8. What does the NRA have to do with anything? (nt)

[UpsideDownFlag]

11. well, as the leading proponent of gun ownership, a whole helluva lot.

i look forward to when this gets moved to the gungeon and chewed on by all y'all.

[FeebMaster]

14. You know very well

that the vast majority of gun owners aren't members of the NRA. Besides, I wasn't asking you.

[UpsideDownFlag]

20. just because they arent members

doesn't mean that the NRA doesn't have huuge sway over pro-gun legislation, with repub politicians eating out of its hand.

[FeebMaster]

22. Yeah those damn Republicans always eating out of

the NRA's hand. Like Reagan, and Bush, and Brady, and Warner, and Snowe, and Gordon Smith, and Lugar, and Gregg, and Fitzgerald, and McCain.

[UpsideDownFlag]

24. am i supposed to disagree with you that the NRA is supported

almost exclusively by repubs? or that they campaigned for Bush, and are currently doing it again, and dishing out daily lies about kerry?

[FeebMaster]

25. I like how we've jumped from

supporting gun rights to supporting the NRA when the whole question in the first place was "what does the NRA have to do with anything?"

Who cares who the NRA supports? They supported Reagan and he was one of the biggest gun grabbers ever.


dishing out daily lies about kerry?

So now pointing out how Kerry has voted is not only bashing him, but lying about him? That's interesting.

[Cheswick2.0]

45. Gun owners may not be members of the NRA

But the NRA runs the anti-gun control movement.

[FeebMaster]

54. Not really.

There are a number of other groups against gun control. Quite a few of them are far less willing to compromise on the gun control issue than the NRA is. It's just more convenient for gun control supporters to complain about the NRA and only the NRA than it is to keep track of all the others. Plus it's easier to demonize one boogey man than a dozen.

[htuttle]

3. The report was more balanced than that

They showed a clip of Kerry saying that he's a hunter and strong supporter of the Second Amendment, but that he's never gone hunting with an AK-47. They also pointed out how some gun manufacturers have been getting around the ban.

Finally, they showed a rifle range, and the instructor/parent (not sure which) said that shooting was their favorite pastime. However, they pointed out that none of the weapons that they used at the range have ever been under consideration for banning.

I think it came across fairly well to the average person.

:shrug:

[FeebMaster]

10. Why would Kerry hunt with an AK-47?

He can afford better.


Finally, they showed a rifle range, and the instructor/parent (not sure which) said that shooting was their favorite pastime. However, they pointed out that none of the weapons that they used at the range have ever been under consideration for banning.

They probably haven't read S.1431.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

30. So did CBS News not actually say what the original poster said they did?

[htuttle]

31. I didn't hear him say that

I suppose you might call the original post a somewhat slanted summary.

[Trajan]

5. Out come the DU fringe groups .....

[DaveSZ]

6. Kick

:kick:

[FeebMaster]

9. Yup there will be dozens of posts about

penises and nuclear weapons in this thread in short order.

[UpsideDownFlag]

12. yes, let's look for the ones about Feinstein and Co. to generate as well.

[DaveSZ]

16. It's a stupid position for someone who cares about the enviornment to take

Hunters and outdoorsmen are among the people who care most about the land.

It is pure idiocy to alienate them.

[LisaL]

Kerry is a hunter himself.

Sleep easy, he is not going to take your hunting rifle away.

[UpsideDownFlag]

13. it's like they can sense when a new gun post has been created.

oh well.

[FeebMaster]

17. Or, you know,

they read the forum and see them.

[UpsideDownFlag]

27. they see several other posts as well, but those aren't as good

for arguing, are they?

[FeebMaster]

40. Yes. They should post in threads that don't interest them.

Just to make you feel better.

[UpsideDownFlag]

55. you're saying that they're only interested in guns?

[FeebMaster]

58. No. Where did I say that?

[UpsideDownFlag]

62. "They should post in threads that don't interest them"

they arent interested in other threads?

[FeebMaster]

70. Clearly I didn't say that.

So I take it you aren't interested in discussing the AWB either? At least you aren't going off about nuclear weapons and nerve gas, I guess.

[UpsideDownFlag]

76. you implied that they dont interest them.

if you didn't mean that when you said the words that i quoted, what did you mean? as you said last night, definitions are important.

[FeebMaster]

79. It seems pretty simple to me.

You look at the list of threads. You see one that interests you. You open it up and maybe you post in it.

Still don't want to discuss the AWB? Not even something about nukes or nerve gas? Maybe something about the NRA?

[comradebillyboy]

19. if you can't switch to full auto its not an assault weapon

the awb is 100% cosmetic\

i use my ar-15 for target shooting. its quite accurate, the ammunition for ar-15 and ak-47 (semi auto version) is dirt cheap so its cheap to shoot. lots of target shooters use the ar, the ak is not too accurate past 100 yds

tbe ar-15 shoots a .223 rem which is not suitable for hunting larger animals such as deer and elk

[FeebMaster]

23. Assault weapons as defined by law

are not machine guns. You're confusing assault weapon and assault rifle.

[Frodo]

42. No, you're confusing a term of art.

Just like the fight between "pro-choice" and "pro-life", the argument is often about terminology. "Pro-lifers" want to call the other side "pro-abortion" while pro-choicers want to call the other team "anti-choice".

Many on the left don't want to be called "liberal" but prefer "progressive".

It's all in how a term is heard by the audience, not in what the words actually MEAN.


The ban was originally "assault type weapons", because the poster is correct. An "assault weapon" must have the ability to go full-auto (even if only in bursts of three shots). ALL assault weapons can do this. The weapons banned by the AWB are really semi-auto versions of their assault siblings, but they LOOK like the "real thing".

It's true that many of the weapons banned by the act have no functional difference from other rifles that are more dangerous... they just LOOK like they do.

[FeebMaster]

44. Maybe so

but as far as the law is concerned Assault Weapons are semi-automatic only. There's enough propaganda out there claiming the AWB bans machine guns as it is and enough people more than happy to believe it without investigating further. Personally, when I want to talk about machine guns I use machine gun, assault rifle, submachine gun, or machine pistol, but I never use assault weapon.

[Frodo]

53. I think you missed it.

They didn't define "assault weapons" as semi-auto only. And there wouldn't be a problem banning full-auto weapon since they are already banned.

So you use "assault rifle" to discuss machine guns but not "assault weapon"???

[FeebMaster]

57. I didn't miss anything.

They didn't define "assault weapons" as semi-auto only.

Have you read the Assault Weapons Ban?


And there wouldn't be a problem banning full-auto weapon since they are already banned.

They aren't banned. But the problem isn't people calling for more regulations on machine guns, the problem is people claiming that the assault weapons ban affects machine guns and trying to drum up support from ignorant people using those claims that assault weapons are machine guns.



So you use "assault rifle" to discuss machine guns but not "assault weapon"???

Yes. I never refer to assault weapons as machine guns because as far as the law is concerned assault weapons are semi-automatic only.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

29. Not a factual statement. Either they both support the AWB or not.

It is simply false for CBS News to say Kerry wants to ban guns other than the AWB.

[Frodo]

43. Apparently that's not true.

And I just learned this yesterday with the Smudge business about the shotgun Kerry was holding.

The re-authorization bill Kerry put forward last year with Feinstein adds several weapons to the list on the original AWB. So Bush could CLAIM he supports one (though he's lying) while Kerry supports the newer list with more guns.

[chiburb]

32. Is there a link to this quote?

Or did you hear what you wanted to hear?

[MrBenchley]

47. Of course not....

It's guns....those who oppose gun control don't need anything like facts....

[Ducks In A Row]

34. Hey if I want the kind of gun that turn deer into pudding...

I'm fucking crazy and need to be thrown into the loony bin.

[FeebMaster]

41. What guns would those be?

This thread is about the Assault Weapons Ban.

[Romulus]

49. maybe he means

anything bigger than .243
on a deer less than 100 lbs?:shrug:

[FeebMaster]

59. Maybe he's a destructive device owner.

Maybe he owns a big mortar or an old artillery piece.

[MrBenchley]

60. Maybe he means the ones that trigger happy loonies

are always creaming their jeans over in public....

You know, the ones 80% of voters want off the market?

[FeebMaster]

61. I don't think anything covered by the AWB

is going to turn a deer into pudding.

[MrBenchley]

69. Yeah, but you also think

the GOP isn't gun-crazy enough....

[FeebMaster]

71. What does that have to do with turning deer to pudding

with assault weapons?

[UpsideDownFlag]

66. lol

nicely put.

[MrBenchley]

72. Thanks....

By the way, did you see that the NRA is going to run anti-Kerry commercials in Wisconsin?

[UpsideDownFlag]

78. believe me Benchley, in your absence i've discovered:

The NRA "doesn't matter" none of our RKBAers "care about it" "and very few gun owners are members"

so i'm sure that they NRA's anti-kerry ads will be of no consequence.

[Truth is True]

48. Deer pudding?

Would that be more or less lumpy than tapioca?

[UpsideDownFlag]

65. juicier

nt

[Dr Strangelove]

75. If Bush Wins

You might wish you had that assult weapon

[UpsideDownFlag]

77. if Bush wins, and the kind of trouble you're implying will occur actually

does....i'd rather have the money the weapon is worth, to buy a plane ticket with.

[OHswingvoter]

80. hell this isn't news

check out Kerry's Senate record he has always been anti-gun or pro gun control however the hell you want to put it. Anyone who is unaware of this must have been under anesthesia for the past 20 years.

Under ordinary circumstances, I would no more vote for this clown than poke myself in the eye with a sharp stick. But people need to realize that WE HAVE TO GET RID OF BUSHIE. Even if Kerry does not stand for much that I believe in, I have no choice but to put all that in the past and support him. BUSH MUST GO. That is what we need to concentrate on.

[UpsideDownFlag]

81. "I would no more vote for this clown than poke myself in the eye.."

thank goodness for ABB.