Can the lying, alcoholic cokehead, deserter really call off a debate with

[henslee]

out any consequences? Does this Pres. Debate Commission have any "juice" (no pun intended) What is best way to make hay of this chicken shit?

[clydefrand]

1. What reason did he give for calling off a debate?

Doesn't have time? Can't read too many big words? Gotta have pictures??? What is it?

[cthrumatrix]

4. something about objective voters asking the questions - not reporters

[cthrumatrix]

31. seems the voters NEED to understand what a coward he is

[Jack from Charlotte]

38. George Bush: AWOL in '72. AWOL on 9/11. Awol in '04 debate. (nfm)

[FloridaPat]

2. It was the debate with the uncommited voters. Probably didn't

like the idea of speaking before people who hadn't pledged to support him in writing. The Democrats should be able to make a great deal of Bush's cowardice.

[Stephanie]

17. The Coward from Crawford

chickens out again. Hey, Bunnypants! What bunker are you hiding in?

[DeepModem Mom]

3. Bush can seemingly do anything with impunity...

and has all his life.

[Spinzonner]

5. I don't think this will carry far

Reportedly Clinton also cancelled a debate 1996.

So the Republicans have a precedent to point to; a Democratic one.

[Mike Daniels]

21. And Clinton's excuse was equally lame -

Something about how due to a UN speech he "had" to give, he wouldn't have time to prepare for the debate.

Sorry, but I think the UN should take second place to a national debate for the presidential election.

[demokatgurrl]

35. But as I remind my Republican friends...

Bill Clinton is not running for President this year.
Everyone says they "don't know Kerry". Well, here's a good chance to get to know him. Three debates aren't even enough.

[Ganja Ninja]

6. He can get away with murder .... and has!

I don't expect the media to get their panties in a wad over anything negative about Bush. They've had ample opportunity already.

[cthrumatrix]

32. you have that right

[bowens43]

7. yes, he can.

[smada]

8. don't get ugly

it only makes you look petty.

There are plenty of reasons to criticize Bush, but to call him an alcoholic cokehead is just juvenile.

By all accounts he is a man who recognized that he had a drinking problem and was able to overcome it. I commend him for that as I do anyone with an addiction problem who has overcome it.

By deriding him as an alcoholic, you're slamming everyone who has ever struggled with the disease of alcoholism. It is not easy to overcome, nor is it encouraging to read statements like yours, which seem to send the message that once you're an alcoholic, you're always a fuck up, always will be, and can't do anything right.

That's not what recovering alcoholics need to hear from others. I refuse to send that message simply simply to deride Bush.

And there is no basis at all for calling him a cokehead. It's assumed, but not proven, that he used to do coke. The extent to which he did it, if at all, is also unknown.

Don't be ugly. Don't turn legitimate gripes into petty name calling. It makes you look small and marginal. Be above that or be prepared to be dismissed.

[Walt Starr]

10. Fuck that, GET DOWNRIGHT NASTY

They have and it's why they win elections.

If you're hunting RATS, you have to get down into the sewer with them!

[henslee]

11. My terminology may be crude but now these are all substantiated

facts. I'm going to shout it to the world. Each one is a good reasons to not want this coward as president. A president should be held to a higher standard fo obvious reasons.

ON EDIT: I totally respect and have empathy for anyone struggling with alcoholism and I've seen it up close but George has never truly confronted his alcoholism, except to say he doesn't drink anymore which is doubtful. Poof -- one day he stopped with no side effects, consequences, after effects. He never acknowledges being a recovering alcholic. He has never mentioned AA, treatment for the disease or has shown any empathy towards his fellow recovering alcholics. In other words, he simply pays lip service to an issue becasue he has pressure on him to say someting about known facts about his past. Actually, attitudes like yours passively enables people like him.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

12. Don't hafta get ugly, just real. Bush is scared and petrified with real Qs

George Wrong is scared and petrified to deal with real questions. He is a masterdebater who has not lost a debate with Anne Richards or Gore, but he won those on an emotional level. Need to get real to get to ArBusto's emotional level, where he gets that deer in the headlights look when asked an unscripted question.

Oops, I should be more sensitive to deer, following your logic, smada.

I can't search. Can you point me to some of your other postings here, please, smada?

[BlueEyedSon]

13. If he is impaired as a result of his longstanding substance abuse

he is unfit to be CIC. Alcohol abuse is frequently a symptom of other undressed psychological problems, once again making him unfit to be CIC.

My hat's off to all recovering substance abusers. That doesn't mean they all are presidential material.

BTW: Kitty Kelley's new book documents the coke abuse.

[Malva Zebrina]

15. Alcoholics freely admit to being alcoholics if they attend AA meetings

My name is ______and I am an alcoholic " This is what they admit at the beginning of every 12 step meeting, even if they have not had a drink in twenty years. I don't think from the alcoholics I know, they would be insulted by that. If they are, they most likely have not fully faced themself--

"That's not what recovering alcoholics need to hear from others. I refuse to send that message simply simply to deride Bush."

Alcoholics in a program such as AA, certainly do need to hear(face) it from others and they most often hear it clearly from the others in their 12 step group--alcoholics going on it on their own who are not in any program, might play the sympathy , poor me card, don't hurt me, I am doing my best, as a manipulative device to excuse other unacceptable behaviors because they have not faced the deeply seated personality traits within themself that would lead to a change in behavior.

Bush is an alcoholic ,although he does not admit to being one and kind stories relate "heavy drinking" instead of the blunt truth. Rumors are that he is still drinking. His photos sure do like it at times. In any event,he never pursued any program such as AA and therefore was not willing to make any changes in his personality --so if he is not drinking and went without treatment, but still holds the personality he will continue to behave as if he were --it is called "dry drunk"

As for the coke addiction--no doubt about it. I expect someone to come forward on that soon also, as they have on the deserter thing.

[smada]

23. What rumors from what sources?

If you're repeating things said on DU, that's hardly substantive. You're calling the guy an alcoholic to be derogatory, the same as calling him a drunk.

He says he's not had a drink since 1986. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. I've seen no reason to believe otherwise, nor have I heard any credible, corroborated statements to contradict that.

I'm very put off by the ugliness and personal smears in politics lately, this included.

[Malva Zebrina]

25. I explained to you the concept of dry drunk

and I also explained to you that an alcoholic who is in a program such as the twelve step program, would not object at all. They would be the first to confront him and call him on it, were he in the twelve step group.

Bush is an alcoholic by all accounts who never pursued any help for his disease. He drank excessively by all accounts from his early twenties to the age of forty. And it was heavy drinking. His evilness,sadism, his paranoia, and his narcissism are indicators of his alcholic personality which he has never faced. Like everything else he does, the rules do not apply to him.

He is an alcoholic. There is no doubt about it.

[Connie_Corleone]

16. Bush never got help for his alcoholism.

He said he just quit one day because he found Jesus. And it's a known "unknown" that Bush was a cokehead. He's also a deserter.

[henslee]

27. He sure looks hungover in this recent pic.

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20040908/capt.sge.hvj58.080904183435.photo00.default


Then when you think about his mis-speaks/geranerally iarticulateness and crankiness lately, plus his tripping down at the MO school photo-op. I think it paints a pretty obvious picture.

[Stephanie]

18. Please see the Kitty Kelley threads re: coke use

Please remember, "it's the hypocrisy, Stupid." It's not whether he was alcoholic or did drugs, it's whether he LIED about it while running for President of the United States.

[Atman]

20. Oh, puhleeze!

First, it is one of those "well knowns" that Bush was a cokehead. There is ample circumstancial, antecdotal and "eye-witness" evidence of such, for years. Hell, the way Bush has sealed all his and his Poppy's records, you'd have a difficult time "proving" he was even born.

As for the hooch, realize that I am 7 years sober myself, but not into any "program." Never have been, never was, although I researched them all (yes, there are several, each one as effective as AA, so if you're reading this and want to quit, you DON'T need AA, no matter what names the AA people call you when you tell them that). Now, AA is great for those for whom it worked. Anything that keeps you sober is a success. But I found it to be a total sham, and I stopped drinking because I was drunk too much, not because a floating ghost in the form of doorknob or whatever, convinced me I was "powerless." I quite for just the OPPOSITE reason...I was NOT powerless, I had control over my health and my life. Bush, however, I firmly believe found "sobriety" the same way he found "Christianity." It was politically and economically expedient for him to do so. The man's brain is so pickled he cannot form a complete sentence...there is a named condition for this, and I'm sorry my Nurse Practioner spouse isn't nearby to remind me of the terminology again.

Bush is on record making jokes about his CURRENT drinking (the mayor who stole his beer), and there are the many numerous unexplained cuts, bruises and "blackout periods" when Bush is on vacation.

I agree that it is very, very difficult to give up drinking. But you cannot do it through arrogance and bullying others. Bush is not a dry drunk, he is not a recovering alcoholic, he is not struggling with shit...he is still drinking and his handlers have their hands full keeping him drugged or out of the limelight while he's on a bender.

That is my opinion. I'm sorry, Bush wants us to believe he has no connections with SBVT, that he reported for duty in Alabama, that he was duped by the CIA. We're just supposed to buy it because he says so, without any evidence to support him. And he relies on that same "compassion" you express to sway the doubters re: his boozing. It's like the Hitler/Bush comparison...we're never supposed to make it because it is so offensive.

But sometimes the truth is offensive.

[smada]

24. I agree about AA

It's like a cult. AA is not the only way to recover from alcoholism. I get a little nutty at people who think it's the one and only way. It reminds me of religious fundamentalism.

[Malva Zebrina]

26. AA is not a cult--many have used the program successfully

for a person who gets insulted when people call Bush an alcoholic, you seem to also denigrate treatment programs that if pursued dilegently also work and have worked for many people who have changed their lives due to that program.

That is really insulting to the many many people who have managed to control or rise above their disease and addiction.

What was your previous post to me about? Let me refresh my memory--it was expressing dismay at people who call Bush an alcoholic and defending all of those who are struggling to overcome it as in some way being insulted and denigrated , yet you easily and with a certain amount of flippance, call treatment programs that work, "cults" and in the process denigrate all who have worked those programs for years perhaps, and have been successful in confronting themself and their disease.

[IdaBriggs]

40. He had a SERIOUS point --

It is very insulting to people with drug and alcohol problems to compare them to BUSH!!! Who wants to be like HIM??? :evilgrin:

[ComerPerro]

29. Sorry, but he is an alcoholic.

Recovering? Someone who recognized he had a drinking problem and overcame it? Not likely!

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/graphics/packageart/bush/bush_tsg.mov

Does this look like someone who has recognized he has a problem and then gave up drinking?

He is a hypocrite, a moron, and a liar.

[hippiegranny]

30. at the risk of sounding petty

I have all the sympathy in the world for people with addiction issues. UNLESS they are trying to pass themselves off as clean and sober while they have their quivering pointer finger poised over the little red button.

Fuck Bush and his addictive, spoiled, lazy, lying ass. No apologies for my feelings.

The end.

[Jim Sagle]

34. You're the one that's going to be dismissed. Buh-bye!

[AndyTiedye]

9. There Will Be No Debates

...unless Karl Rove gets to choose the questions, the audience, and the moderator,
and only Boosh gets to see the questions in advance while Kerry will have to wing it.

[in_cog_ni_to]

14. Of course.

And the ONLY way he will look bad is if the media participates. They won't. He'll come out smelling like a rose.

[bushwakker]

19. The GOP drags it's heels on debates every 4 years

they usually do it to gain concessions on format. this time they really want to cut the number down. they'd do none if they could.

[cthrumatrix]

22. especially with the AWOL and cola news

[cheshire]

28. Faux's spin, 2 debates didn't hurt Clinton or Reagan. No big deal

they could spin grey hair on a chimp.

[demokatgurrl]

36. The big deal is

they already agreed! This is just yet another bogus issue to distract us. Kerry should just say "we already discussed it, three debates, I'm moving on to other things, and I'll be there for all three, Bush or no Bush."

[BillZBubb]

42. This is the exact, correct strategy.

No negotiations, no hand wringing, no accusations of Bush*s cowardice. Kerry just says "three are scheduled, I'll be at all three, see ya there."

It is a loser for Kerry to get into a fight over the debates or to look like he's negotiating about them. That plays right into Rove's slimy hands.

[THUNDER HANDS]

33. he can duck a debate, Clinton did

in 1996.

[demokatgurrl]

37. Clinton's not running

[napi21]

39. I checked the debate history.

There were only 2 debates in 1980, 1984, 1988, & 1996
There were 3 in 1976, 1992, and 2000

The only real link I can find is that GH Bush had 3 with Clinton and lost. Maybe this is another effort of the son not wanting to makee the mistakes of the father.

[Rockholm]

41. Personally, I would like to see a debate a week. (nft)