HELP create a concise statement for Kerry to use against $87 FLIPFLOPcharg

[jab105]

We all seem to believe that Kerry needs to answer this charge...I have the basics of what would be a good "soundbite" answer...but would like some help from you all...let's create a good statement, change it as you want...maybe if we bump it to the homepage, someone in Kerry's camp could see it, and maybe they could realize what a SIMPLE thing it would be to turn this into a positive...REMEMBER at the time a majority were against the $87 extra...UGH, how quickly we forget...anyways...edit as you must, this is what I think Kerry should say about the flip flop $87 billion charge...

"I supported the $87 billion because we figured out a way to pay for it, and accountability for the large money that was being handed out...when the Republcians decided that there should not be a way to pay for it and there should be no accountability with what to do with the money...I had to vote against it.

My fears have turned out to be correct, the money has added greatly to our massive debt, and the money has not been spent on the rebuilding, what they said it would be sent on. On top of that, the people in charge have not been held accountable for spending it wrongly.

If only President Bush had supported the version of the bill that didn't put the American taxpayers into debt and hold services from the reconstruction, then we would be in a much better position today, fiscally in the US as well as regarding the reconstruction in Iraq"

[Monte Carlo]

1. At the time, the war was fully budgeted for the next six months.

There was no urgency, not even with the speeds at which Congress moves. Kerry didn't rubberstamp funding for no-bid contracts, like the ones that are ripping us off right now in Iraq.

[Mike L]

36. I voted for it-- before I voted.......Nah, that's been used. How about:

I did vote for the $87 Bil to fund the troops. I sponsored a bill to do that. My bill would have paid for the $87 Bil with a roll-back of Bush's tax cuts for people making $400,000 or more, instead of putting the debt on America's credit card. The Repubs voted my bill down.

Damn, that's good, if I do say so myself.

[atre]

2. How about this?

"I didn't vote against $87 billion for supplies to the troops; I voted against no-bid contracts for Cheney's old company, Halliburton, a company that has been caught engaging in multiple acts of fraud fleecing American taxpayers."

[jab105]

6. excellent...add that in...but also...

clarify a bid...most Joe Schmo wouldn't understand the link between the two...

The Republicans changed the bill...

very good...lets add it in!!

[bringbackfdr]

25. Excellent, excellent

Also add in:
This administration does done more raiding of the public till to help their corporate friends than any administration in history.
Dunno if that's accurate, but in the world of soundbites when did accuracy matter?

[MissMarple]

41. He voted against a blank check to Halliburton. And, yes, bbfdr,

accuracy, honesty and integrity matter quite a lot.

[radfringe]

3. voted for funding

voted against bush*'s version which lack of accountability and fiscal responsibility

[farmbo]

4. I didn't vote against the $87B...I voted against billing it to our Kids!

eom

[jjmalonejr]

5. How's this?

I voted for a bill that would have provided the $87B by rolling back Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy rather than passing the debt on to our children. That's responsible leadership, that's fiscal responsibility, and the President promised to VETO such a bill.

When the Republicans in Congress defeated the fiscally responsible bill and instead sent us a blank check for the President, I opposed it and voted NO.

I stand by my vote.

[jab105]

9. I dont think we should mention the "rolling back tax cuts" because...

then the Republicans would cry out HE'S TRYING TO INCREASE YOUR TAXES< AHHHHHH!! And that would be the end of the discussion...

Need to focus it on PAYING for your expenses...every American can understand that, dont let them frame the issue as being abut tax increases so that the Republicans can chnge the subject...

[fishface]

7. "I voted for a bill that would ensure veterans would

receive full funding for the programs they'd need when they return from the war but voted against it when Bush's threat to veto it for containing that money had those funds removed"

[cheshire]

8. He needs to tell * to learn to read, He missed the warnings of terror and

The facts of this 87 billion allocation. there were stipulations to getting it and if you could read you would know that. If It's not you reading then you wanted these things legal or not.

[jab105]

11. Confusing...make it so anyone could understand it...

need it to be a soundbite that couldbe all over the news...

[Mike L]

39. shortened version

"I voted for the $87 Bil with a roll-back of Bush's tax cuts for people making $400,000 or more, instead of putting the debt on America's credit card."

[Caution]

10. Here you go

"Kerry supported a bill that would have required Iraq to repay the $87b, the one that he voted against put the bill at the US taxpayer's feet"

[Lex]

12. How's this

"I voted against the freebies to Halliburton included in that bill---I wanted all the money to go to protecting our troops instead."

[GumboYaYa]

13. He was not against the $87.0 Billion; he was just against

letting Bush have control of the money at the expense of the mideles class. He voted to approve the money if Bush's rich friends would foot some of the bill instead of hoisting it on the Middle Class again.

[BootinUp]

14. Good, But the flip flop is also based on the IWR vote

I am not saying we need to refute every single flip flop charge but we should defend the major ones (IWR vote) showing that Kerry is not "reactive" and "passive" and then ridicule the use of flip flops by highlighting a couple of Bush's major flip flops.

I'll check back later, nice thread. :thumbsup:

[jab105]

17. Excellent point...I should add that into this...

hard to do both in one concise statemnet, but yes, thats what should be done...

"In October 2002, the entire world supported the Bush administration's effort to get the inspectors into Iraq, and insure that Saddam Hussein was not a threat to his neighbors or to the United States. I agreed with President Bush on this, that monitoring Hussein was important, which is why I voted for the resolution. With the support of the entire world we got the inspectors into Iraq, and they found that he did not have any weapons that could threaten his neighbors or the United States.

And then President Bush failed the American people, he failed the world. He went into Iraq anyways. He lied to the American people, he forced our servicemen into a war that didn't need to be fought. Even though Iraq was not a threat, even though they had nothing to do with AlQuida, even though the hatred that the war generated in the middle east puts us at even more of a risk of terrorism than ever before.

I supported the President in October 2002, but I did not support him in when he then invaded a country that was not a threat in any way."

This needs a lot of work, but you get the idea...

[Mike L]

40. You could start by not calling it the "IWR" vote.

It wasn't a vote to declare war. It was a vote to authorize force, if necessary.

ML

[Lefty_the_Right]

15. The republicans voted AGAINST it

Before they voted for it.

And then say the reason was because the of the disagreement over how to pay for it.

[troublemaker]

16. The Best Political Answer

There were two versions of that bill. One version required a responsible accounting of what the White House planned to do with the money. The other version didn't--it was a blank check. I voted for the version with accountability built in because I think when someone asks for 87 Billion dollars from the American taxpayer he ought to explain what he wants it for. And I think we have all learned that the vote I cast was the correct vote. The mismanagement of funds in the Iraq war has been a disgrace. A recent report said that they cannot find eight billion -- BILLION with a B-- that they cannot even find what they did with eight billion dollars of that money. It's shameful.

[jab105]

18. PERFECT...clear and concise, excellent...

POST THIS ON EVERY QEBSITE THAT YOU GO TO...EVERYWHERE!! For all to see...memorize it and repeat it over and over and over again...

[welshTerrier2]

19. two versions: bush opposed one; i opposed the other

there were two versions of the $87 billion legislation ... both versions included money for the troops ... bush opposed the first version because it required a full accounting of how the money was spent ... i opposed the second version because it did not provide a full accounting ...

first bush opposed the bill ... then he supported it ... it's not about flip-flopping ... it's about ensuring that the money for the Iraq war was spent according to the law.

[jab105]

22. Great point...add it into the point listed above, and

we got the perfect response...

Even if Kerry doesnt use it...we should be!!

[kentuck]

20. He was in the majority....

Most of the Senators changed their vote on the $87 billion appropriation...However, most that voted against it the first time, which Kerry voted for, changed their vote and voted for it the last time, which Kerry voted against. The vote had no bearing on whether or not the troops did or didn't receive the supplies and ammunition they needed because the vote was not 51 to 49. It was nothing more than a protest vote at giving another subsidy to Halliburton and adding it to the kids credit card, rather than paying for it by doing away with some of the big taxcut gift to the wealthiest. Actually, it was Bush who threatened to veto the bill and not give the aid to the troops.

[jab105]

23. Unfortunately, most people wont understand what a protest vote is...

gotta put it in terms that people will understand...

[xray s]

21. how's this

I voted for a bill that would have protected the American taxpayer from getting ripped off by no bid contracts to crooked contractors. Bush opposed it and offered a bill giving them a blank check, passing all the costs on to our kids to boot. I voted against Bush's bill.

By the looks of it today, I think everyone would agree I was right to be worried about giving companies like Halliburton a free hand in the cookie jar. Hell, its like they gave the account number to your kids college fund to the your crazy cousin with the coke addiction.

[jab105]

24. Close...look above...the only thing is that Bush has done well in tying...

the vote to funding the TROOPS...so that must be mentioned...you know?

[Strawman]

26. First thing is emphasize there is no way JK would not supply the troops

Cuz that's their argument. I would say something like this.

"My opponents and their surrogates have been going around trying to say that I am against funding our troops in the field, and that I was against giving $87 billion to fund out troops. Well let me tell you something. I think I know a little more about being in the field of battle than George Bush or Dick Cheney. I know what it's like to be one of those soldiers and I want them to have the absolute best. Let me state unequivocally. There is no way in hell I would ever leave our troops in the field without the necessary supplies and equipment. No my friends, this is just another sad example of the dishonest smear tactics and gutter politics that this administration and their operatives like to engage in.

Now let me tell you something else about that vote. There were two versions of the bill to fund our troops. George Bush and Dick Cheney supported a bill that would fund the war in Iraq which they have so poorly mismanaged with more deficit spending. They supported a bill that allowed Haliburton to continue to receive no questions asked, no bid contracts to ripoff the American taxpayers. Myself and other Democrats in Congress supported a bill that would have given the $87 billion dollars needed for the troops, without the sweetheart deals for Haliburton and what's more we wanted the rich people that support George Bush and who have benefited from his tax cuts for the rich to ante up and share in the sacrifice of paying for the war by rolling back some of tthose tax cuts for the rich to pay for the $87 billion needed.

Unlike my opponents I am not dishonest. I won't stand up here and tell you that they were opposed to funding our troops because they opposed the Democratic version of the appropriations bill for the troops. While I disagree with my colleagues on the other side of the aisle, I would never stand up here and lie and say they were against providing supplies to our troops in battle the way they are lying and misrepresenting my vote. You see, they don't want to talk about real and legitimate issues. They want to stand up and assert ridiculous things like I would defend the country with spitballs. Have you ever heard a more ridiculous claim in your life? Let's get serious here folks. Why do they do that? They do that because they can't defend their position and the way they've mismanaged the war in Iraq or their priorites of helping their rich buddies first at the expense of the average working American taxpayer.

And let me add one more thing. Not only will I support our troops in the field as Commander-in-Chief, but I will do it better than this administration because I will put taking care of American soldiers and veterans and their families at the very top of my priority list as President. You won't see any soldiers going into combat without body armour. You won't see soldiers' families going to food banks and you won't see any veterans going without their benefits either because during the Kerry administration, we'll put our soldiers' and our veterans' needs first, not Haliburton's or any other big corporate defense contractor's."

[jjmalonejr]

29. Excellent

Send your resume to the Kerry campaign!

[Cogito ergo doleo]

27. 87 Billion Dollars:

that's a lot of money. I voted to insure our soldiers had everything they needed by voting to make certain that the 87 billion dollars were accounted for, but that bill was voted down in favor of writing Halliburton a blank check. I voted for the soldiers and against the irresponsible handling of your money, and I’d do it again.

[eleny]

28. Congress gave the president our vote of confidence

...and the presdient broke that trust. Now we know he meant to do that all along. Bush cannot be trusted.

[sandersadu]

30. $87 Billion

First, how in the world could Bush send our troops over there without the proper body armor. Mothers in Ohio shouldn't be having bake sales to give their sons and daughters the proper equipment. Bush rushed to war and our troops suffered.

Second, I voted for the full $87 billion. What Bush actually supported, and what passed into law was actually only $67 billion for the troops, again after they'd been there for a year, and $20 billion for an unregulated slush fund for Halliburton. I won't give George a Bush a blank check. I voted to fully support the troops, Bush only gave them a half-a-loaf, and they're still dying in Iraq.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

32. That's right. Bush sent them in without body armor

and they were going to get it no matter how the 87 billion dollar vote went.

[GingerSnaps]

31. Adults have to change their minds at times and kids say "you promised"

Children beliefs are "You promised" and you can't ever change your mind.
Bush "You promised" has a kid mentality

Kerry "He's an adult and adults have to change their minds on things sometimes for the better and that is why Kerry Changed his mind because he's an adult".

[jab105]

33. Interesting...will try to write up and final version of all these...

you guys are brilliant!!

[radiclib]

34. This issue only shows how stupid most people are

The Republicans never overestimate the intelligence of the American voter. This understanding is a cornerstone of their success in the last quarter century. Doesn't anyone..media included..think anything through? Are we incapable of holding a thought for more than a nano-second? Anyone with an iota of cognitive ability could see that Senator Kerry was actually going somewhere with that comment. A sentient being might conclude that he was about to elaborate on the different conditions of his two votes. But no, I suppose most people imagine that he's about to confess what a flip-flopper he is, and how he has no idea what to think about the 87 mil.
Jesus God Almighty help us.

[Mike L]

38. NO

"Are we incapable of holding a thought for more than a nano-second?"

The average American voter can't. We must stop thinking like liberals when it comes to elections in swing states and the presidential election and think like 9th graders. We have to be just as dirty and shallow as the Repukes if we are to win. "Willie Horton" tactics work. Karl Rove knows this.

I thought I was watching a pro wrestling match before Bush gave his acceptance speech. Remember the gaudy set, walking US flags, and waving flags and USA signs in the crowd? Don't forget the 'fans' chanting, "U-S-A, U-S-A, U-S-A" when Bush walked out. WWWE entertainment at its finest.

[Carolinian]

35. I began to have doubts re Bush as a leader. etc, etc.

[bigtree]

37. From the Kerry page:

-Bush Threatened To Veto the $87 Billion Before He Used It as a Political Cudgel


-Bush Threatened To Veto $87 Billion Supplemental Over Additional Funding For Reservists And Veterans.


-Bush Threatened To Veto $87 Billion Package On Issue Of Allocating Grants Or Loans To Iraqis.- Wash Post, 10/30/03

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2004_0805c.html

[PretzelWarrior]

42. just say: Bush is a deserter and doesn't care about you.

support a war hero--not a cocaine addict who will do anything to avoid responsibility including sending some poor chap to his death in Vietnam while he yukked it up in TANG and deserted his fellow flyboys.