No offense but those of you buying the forgery BS are complete idiots

[Proud2BAmurkin]

Jesus if DUers are this gullible, maybe we should be less optimistic about November.

The documents are legit.

[cal04]

1. guess we'll soon find out

CBS NEWS executives have launched an internal investigation into whether its premiere news program 60 MINUTES aired fabricated documents relating to Bush National Guard service, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned.

"The reputation and integrity of the entire news division is at stake, if we are in error, it will be corrected," a top CBS source explained late Thursday.

The source, who asked not to be named, described CBSNEWS anchor and 60 MINUTES correspondent Dan Rather as being "shell-shocked" by the increasingly likelihood that the documents in question were fraudulent.

Rather, who anchored the segment presenting new information on the president's military service, will personally correct the record on-air, if need be, the source explained from New York.

[speedoo]

4. Source? Link?

eom

[Proud2BAmurkin]

5. yeah, top CBS source is talking to Drudge about it. LOL

LOL

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

7. Oh, never mind. It's all settled.

The Drudge Report has spoken.

[maine_raptor]

8. You got a link to those quotes?????

"shell-shocked" by the increasingly likelihood

If it's just Drudge..........FORGETABOUTIT!!!!!!!

[punpirate]

18. Paving the path for backpedaling....

Early today CBS was saying that the documents had been vetted by experts.

Funny thing--virtually all of the documents presented are, essentially, back-up or confirming documents for official orders which are already common knowledge. The only one which does not fit into that category is the "CYA" memo.

Bush did get official orders to take his flight physical, which he disobeyed. He did not appear at Ellington for a year, and was rated as such on official forms.

He affirmed in publicly available documents that he would fly for five years after completing his basic flight training in Nov. 1969, and he did not meet his commitment, falling short by thirty-one months.

Case fuckin' closed.

[nmvisitor]

34. Why the gloom and doom?

Even if these particular documents turn out to be forgeries (and that is a very big 'if' at this point), I don't see why that is necessarily a disaster. So what if somebody, probably a Republican operative, scammed CBS news? CBS looks bad, Dan Rather looks bad, but why does John Kerry look bad? There was no need for the Kerry campaign to come up with fake documents - there are too many legitimate ones floating around.

[shivaji]

74. This hurts John Kerry because---------->

MSM will be talking about this issue for several valuable days
instead of jobs, outsourcing, health care for un-insured, prescription cost, privatization of social security, Iraq, and budget deficits.

Thank you moveon.org & carville for nothing.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

35. Drudge report?

The same one that said Kerry had an affair with an intern?

[LuminousX]

93. CBS denies any internal investigation

60 Minutes has a long history of integrity and dealing with huge topics like this. I trust they got their ducks in a row. They've been sued many times and have never lost a case.

[goodhue]

96. Yes CBS is sticking with the truth -- no forgeries.

In a statement, CBS News said it stands by its story.

"This report was not based solely on recovered documents, but rather on a preponderance of evidence, including documents that were provided by unimpeachable sources, interviews with former Texas National Guard officials and individuals who worked closely back in the early 1970s with Colonel Jerry Killian and were well acquainted with his procedures, his character and his thinking," the statement read.

"In addition, the documents are backed up not only by independent handwriting and forensic document experts but by sources familiar with their content," the statement continued. "Contrary to some rumors, no internal investigation is underway at CBS News nor is one planned."

Friday afternoon, CBS News addressed one of the authenticity issues raised, whether typewriters in the 1960s had the "th" superscript key. "CBS News states with absolute certainty that the ability to produce the "th" superscript mentioned in reports about the documents did exist on typewriters as early as 1968, and in fact is in President Bush's official military records released by the White House, CBS said in a statement. The issue will be addressed in Friday's Evening News broadcast, 6:30 p.m. ET.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/06/politics/main641481.shtml

[goodhue]

97. CBS stands tall!

Forgery story a total blogosphere joke.

[LoZoccolo]

2. Thanks for telling them why.

I'd hate for something as important as this (remember, there's a whole Rovian angle to this, so it's important to know what's what) to be settled with mere namecalling.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

11. I believe an imposter posted your post

It just doesn't sound like you.

Tell me why I'm wrong.

[LoZoccolo]

25. Uh, do I know you?

I didn't know you were so intimately familiar with my posts.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

37. I'm an "expert" post identifier

.

[Lefta Dissenter]

3. I dare you

to post that over in FreeperLand... :D

[Frodo]

6. "No offense" eh?

It's fooled a couple "forensic document experts". Must be a gullible group of guys.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

14. Ever been to a court trial with "expert witnesses"?

You can get any kind of expert witness to testify to anything

[Frodo]

24. Yep. Espetially if you PAY them.

But there can't be "proof" that they are authentic based on the currently reported sourcing. So the "experts" can take the issue completely away. Even make it backfire.

[Clinton Crusader]

9. agreed and kick

:kick:

[Bolo Boffin]

10. I bought forgery for a hour or so, but it was a moment of weakness.

Mea culpa.

Or rather, Busha culpa.

[KittyWampus]

16. Yeah, But You Helped Debunk Lots Of Garbage Flug At Wes Clark

:)

[Guaranteed]

12. Yes, idiots. LOOK:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9967-2004Sep9.html

< snip >

A senior CBS official, who asked not to be named because CBS managers did not want to go beyond their official statement, named one of the network's sources as retired Maj. Gen. Bobby W. Hodges, the immediate superior of the documents' alleged author, Lt. Col. Jerry B. Killian. He said that a CBS reporter read the documents to Hodges over the phone, and that Hodges replied that "these are the things that Killian had expressed to me at the time."

"These documents represent what Killian not only was putting in memoranda, but was telling other people," the CBS News official said. "Journalistically, we've gone several extra miles."

The official said the network regarded Hodges's comments as "the trump card" on the question of authenticity, as he is a Republican who acknowledged that he did not want to hurt Bush. Hodges, who declined to grant an on-camera interview to CBS, did not respond to messages left on his home answering machine in Texas.


Good NIGHT.

[Frodo]

15. Being "the kind of things he used to say" is not the same thing as genuine

The latest from the RW blog I first found it at:

1. The format used in this letter, dated 04 May 1972, which was
allegedly prepared/published 16 months prior to Lieutenant Bush's request for discharge, is completely wrong, as the letter is formatted in a manner that was not used by the Air Force until the very late 1980's/early 1990's.

2. The terminology "MEMORANDUM FOR" was never used in the 1970's.

3. The abbreviations in this letter are incorrectly formatted, in that a period is used after military rank (1st Lt.). According to the Air Force style manual, periods are not used in military rank abbreviations.

4. The abbreviation for Fighter Interceptor Squadron (FIS) includes periods after each capital letter. Again, periods are not used.

5. In paragraph 1, the phrase "not later than" is spelled out, followed by (NLT). NLT was, and is, a widely recognized abbreviation for "not later than" throughout all military services, so the inclusion of "not later than" was not a generally accepted practice and completely unnecessary in a letter from one military member to another.

6. Lt Col Killian's signature element is incorrect for letters prepared in the 1970's. This letter uses a three-line signature element, which was normally not used. Three-line signature elements were almost the exclusive domain of colonels and generals in organizations well above the squadron level.

7. Finally, the signature element is placed far to the right, instead of being left justified. The placement of the signature element to the right was not used or directed by Air Force standards until almost 20 years after the date of this letter.

[KittyWampus]

19. So You DID Go To Freeperland To "Debunk" This

gee, you're a busy little bee.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

26. DU is his second home, dontcha know

:eyes:

I would take any evidence from a RW site with a grain of salt.

[Frodo]

31. Nah. I first saw it at "powerline"

which I just found yesterday.

I used to think FR was the fastest way to find their latest talking points/issues, but on this issue this other site is FAST.

This from a few minutes ago:

CBS NEWS executives have launched an internal investigation into whether its premiere news program 60 MINUTES aired fabricated documents relating to Bush National Guard service, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned.
"The reputation and integrity of the entire news division is at stake, if we are in error, it will be corrected," a top CBS source explained late Thursday.

The source, who asked not to be named, described CBSNEWS anchor and 60 MINUTES correspondent Dan Rather as being "shell-shocked" by the increasingly likelihood that the documents in question were fraudulent. (emphasis mine)

Rather, who anchored the segment presenting new information on the president's military service, will personally correct the record on-air, if need be, the source explained from New York.

[geek tragedy]

53. Thank you for parroting right-wing talking points, but

we can find them elsewhere if we want people waving them in our face.

No real Democrat trusts Drudge.

[leftynyc]

87. Another "un-named source"

Perhaps the same one who had Kerry having an affair. Anyone who uses druge as a source for news is a moron (harsh but true)

[Guaranteed]

20. The guy's COMMANDING OFFICER,

the guy MENTIONED in the memo, for Christ's sake, says that it was an issue! What the hell else do you want?

It's REAL! God DAMN.

[Frodo]

33. The guy confirmed it was the kind of thing they talked about.

We already knew these were issues. The documents were originally offered as a "smoking gun" proof with a couple new twists.

"The guy" didn't confirm the documents themselved were real.

One of the "forgery" theories is that these were created recently from earlier notes/recolections/etc.

[Guaranteed]

36. No, that's NOT what he said.

This is taken DIRECTLY from the Washington Post link, just now:

"these are the things that Killian had expressed to me at the time."

Those are THE things that Killian had expressed to him at the time.

[Frodo]

42. That's inconclusive - and now the Colonel's WIFE says it's unlikely.

Marjorie Connell — widow of the late Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, the reported author of memos suggesting that Bush did not meet the standards for the Texas Air National Guard — questioned whether the documents were real.

"The wording in these documents is very suspect to me," she told ABC News Radio in an exclusive phone interview from her Texas home. She added that she "just can't believe these are his words."

First reported by CBS's 60 Minutes, the memos allegedly were found in Killian's personal files. But his family members say they doubt he ever made such documents, let alone kept them.

Connell said Killian did not type, and though he did take notes, they were usually on scraps of paper. "He was a person who did not take copious notes," she said. "He carried everything in his mind."


Did not type? Then he certainly wasn't using the most complicated typewriter of the period for personal CYA memos.

[Guaranteed]

48. SHE wasn't there!

Hodges SAYS that that is what Killian told him! And he's a Republican who also said he doesn't want to hurt Bush!

It's over. Give it up.

[Frodo]

50. We get belittled for those kinds of comments.

Like the guy on the next boat not "serving" with Kerry because he wasn't on the same boat.

I think the guy's wife WAS "there". She certainly knew whether he knew how to type or not. Nobody who couldn't type could have produced these documents on the equipment available at the time.

YES we know he had these kinds of conversations. Hodges doesn't confirm precise language. And he can't confirm whether a copy of a piece of paper is genuine. At least not based on the comments published so far.

And CBS is now questioning it, they obviously don't think his statement is the slam dunk you do.


Edit - whoops - missed the best part :

Connell said her late husband would be "turning over in his grave to know that a document such as this would be used against a fellow guardsman," and she is "sick" and "angry" that his name is "being battled back and forth on television."

Her late husband was a fan of the young Bush, said Connell, who remarried after her husband died in 1984. "I know for a fact that this young man … was an excellent aviator, an excellent person to be in the Guard, and he was very happy to have him become a member of the 111th."


Seems the colnel's coworker had different conversations with him than his wife?

[geek tragedy]

56. Thank you and good night.

Adopting the Reichwing talking points on the Smearvets tells me everything I need to know.

[Guaranteed]

64. He COULDN'T TYPE??

Are you telling me this guy NEVER typed a document in his life?

[Frodo]

67. I'm sure he could hunt and peck

But if you take a look at the operators manual for the only typewritter that might have been able to produce this - it's no beginner's typewritter.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

51. That so bursts his balloon

just don't tell him the economy sucks-he thinks it's booming! :eyes:

[Proud2BAmurkin]

52. Wife is a Repuke. "making bad accusations about OUR PRESIDENT"

That's a quote from the repuke wife.

[geek tragedy]

54. Have you heard of secretaries?

Maybe you and your freeper buddies should discuss that possiblility.

[Frodo]

57. If it's a secretary

then the unit would have had that kind of typewriter. The personell chief at the time says they didn't.


And some OTHER document from that office would have been produced on it (it would have been the most expensive typewriter - and you only use it for CYA stuff?). We've seen none. Including other documents from this officer?

And a military secretary would have used correct abreviations, caps, terminology, coding, etc. (s)he did not.

[geek tragedy]

60. Well, when I hear non-Freepers supporting some of your factual allegations

then I'll begin to have doubts. If I want to acknowledge Freeper speculation, I'll go to Freepland or LGF.

Who do you think had possession of these documents? If he didn't type these himself, he must have had someone who typed all of his documents . . .

And note this:

"CBS officials insisted that the network had done due diligence in checking out the authenticity of the documents with independent experts over six weeks. The senior CBS official said the network had talked to four typewriting and handwriting experts "who put our concerns to rest" and confirmed the authenticity of Killian's signature."

Given a choice between 60 Minutes and four experts with access to the original documents who took weeks in reviewing them, and in Free Republic talking points, you'll forgive me if I choose the former.

[Frodo]

61. Try reading DU

Quite a few long-time posters are having problems with this.

Many have moved right out of "genuine" to "obviously fakes and Rove did it".

And CBS has since backed off of the "typewriting experts".

[geek tragedy]

65. What source do you have for that?

Cite please.

[Frodo]

68. hmmm. after the name calling?

But you did say "please"..

It was in the first AP article I read. All the one I can find now says is

The personnel chief in Killian's unit at the time also said he believes the documents are fake. 'They looked to me like forgeries," Rufus Martin said. "I don't think Killian would do that, and I knew him for 17 years."


http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/9623049.htm

[geek tragedy]

70. Well, if there's no cite

then we can't say that CBS is backing off the experts, can we?

[Frodo]

71. Whoops - wrong post.

I thought you were questioning something about the personell guy at the unit saying they didn't have typewriters like that (these things are prett recognizable with the extra dials and all).

I'll look for this other one - it was early in the story.

[bagnana]

55. Why do you always spout the republican line

EVERY single one of your posts, and I mean every single one, either questions polls supporting Kerry, supports polls in Bush's favor, supports jobs figures twisted in Bush's favor, supports the "importance" of the swift boat vet claims, or now, questions the authenticity of records demonstrating a known fact, i.e. Bush was awol. Why is this? Trying to be "fair and balanced"?

[Frodo]

59. I'm antagonistic by nature.

I rarely post unless I identify something wrong in what I reply to.


:hi:

[bagnana]

72. well why is it that you never disagree w/the posts that

bash or take down Kerry and/or the dems? There are a hell of a lot of those around here as well, and many are subject to heated debate. Or is it that you never think those posts are wrong? Please correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe I have ever seen such a post.

[Frodo]

73. I do - and plenty

PArticularly on new posters.

Espectially those who jump on just to start a thread they know is a "dig".

[bagnana]

76. that's good to hear

although I haven't seen any of those posts.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

84. I haven't seen any of them either

and I've been here a while... :hi:

[Walt Starr]

85. I'm with you on this

:hi:

[ibegurpard]

69. Don't forget the electronic voting naysaying.

eom

[The Stranger]

81. All of these critiques are based on a vague and undefined "norm" for

which there is no tangible evidence. You are saying it was not done like this in the 1970's -- what kind of fucking statement is that? I'm sure there were many things done in the 1970's that were unusual. Show us the standard in black and white to which it is being compared.

[goodhue]

92. The terminology "MEMORANDUM FOR" was never used in the 1970's

Totally absurd!
These talking points are a joke and should not be promulgated as they only fan a totally absurd and diversionary debate. I'm baffled that so many at DU took this stuff as if it raised a legit issue.

[LoZoccolo]

27. Well see, someone needs to post solid stuff like that...

...rather than go off screaming about politically incorrect counter-revolutionaries like some Maoist freakball.

[Outliar]

28. Did anybody read the rest of the article?

Every document expert who's been contacted-by the wingnuts, the WP, ABC-has said these docs are probably fake. It's bad news, and we should quit defending these papers and just get the fuck away from them.

[Guaranteed]

30. Mmmm nope. I think I'll take Hodge's word for it.

You know, the guy whose name is mentioned in the memo?

[saracat]

39. Goodbye

Find another way to support B/C.

[Catherine Vincent]

45. I guess you're one of the idiots. LOL!

[Outliar]

46. OK, guys, I'm new here

but I've been lurking for a while so I know how this goes...I'm just going to bookmark this and revisit it in a couple of days and we'll see who was right then.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

47. bubye

.

[AmerDem]

13. lol

well said

[Guaranteed]

17. Great post, BTW.

God you guys get sucked into this bullshit so easily. Yeah, I know the truth is important, but when have you known Rove and Co. to actually tell it?

Use your brain.

[ranosgol]

21. Rove has done this before....

If I remember correctly when people hinted Bush was a cocaine user, he created a fake story about Bush's cocaine use and let it fall into the hands of someone who was critical of Bush. They wrote an article on it and Rove let it play out for awhile. After it got some attention, Rove's people of course discredited it.

This ensured that any story about Bush's drug use, real or fake, would forever be in doubt. Essentially letting Bush of the cocaine hook.

This could be the same thing.

If the documents are fake, then no one will ever do a negative article on Bush's TANG service.

Call me stupid I do not care but this is a very real possibility.

[MidwestTransplant]

40. Interesting point

Also, the WH had these memos and never questioned their authenticity. Apparently CBS found them, gave them to the WH to see and the WH returned them. If they are fake, it's very possible that the WH knew and said nothing and let CBS run with it.

[AnnitaR]

22. Agreed! It's like fucking Freeperville here tonight!

Come on folks!

[saracat]

62. Must be busy. The mods haven't jumped on the alerts!

[sadiesworld]

66. GREAT Clark pic!

:bounce:

[renotyme]

79. four legs good, two legs bad

george orwell

[vivalarev]

23. AMEN!!!!

[Clinton Crusader]

29. Sweet Moses, WaPo is on it now...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A9967-2004Sep9?language=printer
:kick:

[Guaranteed]

32. Don't forget the BEST part, the CLINCHER:

< snip >

A senior CBS official, who asked not to be named because CBS managers did not want to go beyond their official statement, named one of the network's sources as retired Maj. Gen. Bobby W. Hodges, the immediate superior of the documents' alleged author, Lt. Col. Jerry B. Killian. He said that a CBS reporter read the documents to Hodges over the phone, and that Hodges replied that "these are the things that Killian had expressed to me at the time."

"These documents represent what Killian not only was putting in memoranda, but was telling other people," the CBS News official said. "Journalistically, we've gone several extra miles."

The official said the network regarded Hodges's comments as "the trump card" on the question of authenticity, as he is a Republican who acknowledged that he did not want to hurt Bush. Hodges, who declined to grant an on-camera interview to CBS, did not respond to messages left on his home answering machine in Texas.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

41. How come they don't name the experts......

...who question the documents authenticity?

[GOPAgainstGW]

38. Glad Someone Else Is Saying This, Instead of Me All The Time - Thanks!!!!!

------------------------------
Beltway and Texas Republicans
Against Bush-Cheney ’04, Inc.
------------------------------
"Insider’s News”, Vol 1 - Kerry-Edwards Campaign Doing Well
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x748458
“Insider’s News” Vol 1.1 - Great Anti-Bush Sites
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x756409

[Proud2BAmurkin]

44. It is to weep

.

[saracat]

And if they want to be that gullible and

self defeatist, they should keep it to themselves instead of giving the other side ammo. Can't you hear it in Freeperville and the WSJ? Kerry base thinks...I won't say it because they will take it out of context and print it.

[IdaBriggs]

43. Yeah! nt

[SoCalDemocrat]

49. how long does it take to killa story

Drudge only needed to cast doubt on it sufficient to let this thing lose steam.

I believe an IBM Selectric II was used, readily available by 1972.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Selectric_typewriter



The Selectric typewriter was first released in 1961 and is generally considered to be a design classic. After the Selectric II was introduced a few years later, the original design was designated the Selectric I. The Correcting Selectric II differed from the Selectric I in many respects:

The Selectric II was squarer at the corners, whereas the Selectric I was rounder.

The Selectric II had a Dual Pitch option to allow it to be switched (with a lever at the top left of the "carriage") between 10 and 12 characters per inch, whereas the Selectric I had one fixed "pitch".

The Selectric II had a lever (at the top left of the "carriage") that allowed characters to be shifted up to a half space to the left (for inserting a word one character longer or shorter in place of a deleted mistake), whereas the Selectric I did not.

The Selectric II had optional auto-correction (with the extra key at the bottom right of the keyboard), whereas the Selectric I did not. (The white correction tape was at the left of the typeball and its orange take-up spool at the right of the typeball.)

The Selectric II had a lever (above the right platen knob) that would allow the platen to be turned freely but return to the same vertical line (for inserting such symbols as subscripts and superscripts), whereas the Selectric I did not.

[Awsi Dooger]

58. Mathematical probability is not a specialty at DU

Conspiracies, on the other hand...

[Protected]

63. You mean...

The probability of a simple Microsoft Word document generated in the year 2004 matching a document created using a typewriter in 1973?

[Awsi Dooger]

75. Is this a DNA match?

With legit odds of 1 in billions, or higher, against anything else being true?

It looks the same, wonderful. That is more than trumped by the obstacles that would have to be overcome in the case of a genuine conspiracy, seemingly never a concern at DU:

* manpower, certainly many people and all willing to commit fraud

* specialized knowledge of military documents and personnel 30+ years removed

*secrecy

*the absolute need to fool the CBS (or wherever) and all the initial experts it was sure to consult

*knowledge there were not genuine documents from Killian that could be uncovered by CBS and used to refute your "phony memos" as legit

*the audacity to think a modern day machine could be used to temporarily fool some experts, then easily identified by others within a day

*apparent knowledge Barnes would come forth, despite adamantly refusing a TV interview for years, since his statements were the basis for this topic to be revisited and these memos included in the first place

* the political audacity to think this would work and not backfire, or even necessary to begin with

* and most of all, the very idea to do it in the first place. Believe it or not, like all conspiracy theories, you start out SIGNIFICANTLY below 50% probability right there.

My side requires one thing. Bush was AWOL, as we all know, and a few more memos have been uncovered that shed more info on that, as journalists continue to probe in the heat of a tossup presidential election. As this thread suggests, the correct description is idiocy. It's 30 years later, not like discovering something new and legit on Jack The Ripper, tucked away in some London attic.

[jab105]

77. Doesn't matter...Republicans have muddy the waters enough about the

claim to make it invalid in voters minds...in less than 12 hours...

It took the democrats 3 weeks to do this!!

[Frodo]

78. Looks like Stephanopolous and Chris Lehane are "complete idiots", eh?

And the Kerry campaign seems to be assuming they are fraudulent as well - now publicly (Joe Lockhardt) denying they "had anything to do with it".

Darn those right wing disrupter's.



Memo for future reference. Being right does not make one "right wing".

[OilemFirchen]

80. Stephanopolous and Lehane ARE complete idiots

Though Lehane did offer up the loony Rove-did-it theory as well. Forgot to mention that, didya?

Lockhart denies that they "had anything to do with it"? Well shet my mouf! Who said they did?

BTW, Occam's Razor sez that if you're going to forge documents from the 1970's, you use equipment from the 1970's. How on earth is it any more complicated that that?

[Frodo]

88. I disagree - but even assuming you're right

They aren't right wing shills.


Nor is just anyone who fails to drink the coolaid.

[OilemFirchen]

90. Didn't say they were.

But Stephanopoulos is a media whore whose interest is the story. More properly, he's a "muck shill".

As goes Lehane, I have no idea what you're talking about, but in his Nightline interview, he merely made the observation that this could be a Rove gotcha - probably with tongue planted firmly in cheek. Doesn't sound like a he's on your side. If you have another cite from him, let's see it.

Lockhart? No wingnut shill, to be sure. But what does he have to do with the issue on the table?

[leftynyc]

89. Has it occured to you that they (ABC Shills) make take

some joy in CBS's credibility being questioned?

And since when does Lockhart denying they had anything to do with the documents mean they are assuming they're fake.

You're not much for critical thinking, I see.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

82. Bush fled, Kerry bled.

Bush fled, Kerry bled.

[cthrumatrix]

83. bush lied and people died

[LibDemAlways]

86. Thank you.

Documents surface that are extremely unfavorable to the chimp re. his military service. The only way out was for the repukes to question their authenticity, and the whores become willing accomplices. It's all a diversionary tactic, and I can't believe anyone here on DU knowing what we know about Rove and co. would fall for it.

[goodhue]

91. Indeed!

But some people say they are forgeries. :crazy:

[Panda1]

94. Diversion; smears; lies; ALL Diversionary tactics

Dispute at will:

FACT: Kerry served honorably in Vietnam
FACT: Swiftboatliars proven to be linked to Rove
FACT: POW ads linked to right wingers FOR Bush
FACT: Bush was AWOL...no proof EVER provided for the missing months
FACT: Bush lied about reasons to attack Iraq
FACT: Afghanistan back in hands of Taliban
FACT: Iraq getting worse, not better
FACT: The world is MORE dangerous
FACT: Osama has not been caught
FACT: Rover will lie and smear until November 2
FACT: Saudis more connected to 9/11 than Saddam
FACT: Typewriter hooey is all a diversion
FACT: Most Americans are ignorant of the facts
FACT: If we lose this election the gloves will really come off
FACT: Our economy is in the toilet
FACT: Our Constitution has been shredded with the PA

This whole forged document bullshit is a diversion.
Stay on track....BUSH WAS AWOL; BUSH LIED.

[goodhue]

95. kick

because forgery talk is complete BS

[Proud2BAmurkin]

98. Rather kicked

.

[goodhue]

99. kick again

for clarity of thought