THE MEMO IS NOT A FAKE. FINAL PROOF TO END ALL DISCUSSION:

[Guaranteed]

Taken STRAIGHT from the Washington Post article:

<snip>

A senior CBS official, who asked not to be named because CBS managers did not want to go beyond their official statement, named one of the network's sources as retired Maj. Gen. Bobby W. Hodges, the immediate superior of the documents' alleged author, Lt. Col. Jerry B. Killian. He said a CBS reporter read the documents to Hodges over the phone and Hodges replied that "these are the things that Killian had expressed to me at the time."

"These documents represent what Killian not only was putting in memoranda, but was telling other people," the CBS News official said. "Journalistically, we've gone several extra miles."

The official said the network regarded Hodges's comments as "the trump card" on the question of authenticity, as he is a Republican who acknowledged that he did not want to hurt Bush. Hodges, who declined to grant an on-camera interview to CBS, did not respond to messages left on his home answering machine in Texas.

<snip>

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A9967-2004Sep9?language=printer

*****Let me just repeat what Hodges, the man MENTIONED at the beginning of the memo, said to the reporter, for those reading too fast: *****

"these are the things that Killian had expressed to me at the time."

Those are THE things that Killian had EXPRESSED to him at the TIME.

Now. Are we finished with this, or are people going to keep doing the Repukes job for them over and over by echoing this right-wing diversionary BULLSHIT?

[elperromagico]

1. Let them continue to claim that the memo is fake. It keeps the story

in the news. :D

[PROGRESSIVE1]

2. But if the "memo is fake" meme is accpeted then we....

are screwed and 60 Minutes looks very bad.

Where are the Democrats to keep the flames going???

[elperromagico]

8. It was also proven that the Swift Vets were a bunch of liars.

But the damage was done. It's like a judge telling a jury to disregard some comment in court; it's against human nature to ignore something you've heard. All that is necessary is to plant that little seed of doubt.

I would rather that the memo is proven to be true, of course. But if you can get a half million people to believe it here and there, the damage may be done anyway.

[SoCalDemocrat]

10. Forgery claims are a Drudge deflection

The forgery claims are a deflection by Drudge to keep the press from focusing on asking the President to refute the new information, and to keep it from being widely disseminated and accepted as factual.

I believe an IBM Selectric II was likely used to type the report. This typewriter was available in 1972, possibly earlier, and supported subscript and superscript.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Selectric_typewriter



The Selectric typewriter was first released in 1961 and is generally considered to be a design classic. After the Selectric II was introduced a few years later, the original design was designated the Selectric I. The Correcting Selectric II differed from the Selectric I in many respects:

The Selectric II was squarer at the corners, whereas the Selectric I was rounder.

The Selectric II had a Dual Pitch option to allow it to be switched (with a lever at the top left of the "carriage") between 10 and 12 characters per inch, whereas the Selectric I had one fixed "pitch".

The Selectric II had a lever (at the top left of the "carriage") that allowed characters to be shifted up to a half space to the left (for inserting a word one character longer or shorter in place of a deleted mistake), whereas the Selectric I did not.

The Selectric II had optional auto-correction (with the extra key at the bottom right of the keyboard), whereas the Selectric I did not. (The white correction tape was at the left of the typeball and its orange take-up spool at the right of the typeball.)

The Selectric II had a lever (above the right platen knob) that would allow the platen to be turned freely but return to the same vertical line (for inserting such symbols as subscripts and superscripts), whereas the Selectric I did not.

[rumguy]

3. I saw in a thread the closeups of the number '2'

that would indicate that the documents are real...

[Guaranteed]

5. They are.

There's no question. Hodges HIMSELF says that Killian was talking about this!

[rumguy]

9. Here's that number '2' closeup - interesting -

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=779692&mesg_id=780111&page=

[Must_B_Free]

12. But was this the REAL Hodges?

or "Fat Hodges"? :)

Remember Fat Osama? Maybe he's back.

Or it could have just been Rich Little on the phone.

[ender]

4. now, is the time for ridicule...

anyone who espouses the "forgery" crap should be met with massive amounts of derision... compare their beliefs to the flat earth society, or the belief that the sun revolves around the earth...

its high time to meet these folks with scorn and derision. not every side of the debate is equal, and worthy of consideration.

[Guaranteed]

6. There is no question. nt

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

7. I know some hobbits....

[fearnobush]

13. Just use the Freeper Taking points in reverse. It doesn't matter if they

are fake, the issue is that Bush said he served throughout all of those questionable periods yet he cannot prove it. He is running his campaign as the "war president" but cannot prove he actually served. How can he be trusted?

[djg21]

17. No!!!!

This is the time to sit by and let CBS conduct its investigation and confirm that the documents are authentic. Its integrity is on the line, and it wll go to war to protect its news franchise. If the docs turn out to be fraudulent, which is clearly possible, we want nothing to do with them, and CBS should pay the price.

[Guaranteed]

20. <sigh>

Some people are fucking impossible.

They're REAL. Read the post again, look at the title.

[Must_B_Free]

21. Should we ban everyone who doesn't agree with the

official DU beliefs? Maybe we can be the next Ldotters. You first.

[Guaranteed]

25. Isn't that what we do here? nt

[kentuck]

11. If 50% believe they are fake.....

they are of no use politically or otherwise. It is a wash and a mere diversion until election. If this cannot be validated 100%, best to just forget about it, in my opinion.

[Guaranteed]

14. I think we just did that.

What, the word of Killian's commanding officer, a Republican who has stated he doesn't want to hurt Bush, isn't good enough for you?

You're going to take the word of three or four experts falling all over each other in their contradictions? Or the guy who knew and was talking to Killian himself?

Not to mention the documents themselves and the credibility of CBS News?

[kentuck]

23. How old is this gentleman ?

We don't know that he's not like the old codger down in Alabama that vouched for Bush, 6 months before ever arrived in ALabama he says he saw him there... No, we shouldn't take anybody's word as proof of anything at this time.

[Must_B_Free]

16. I beg to disagree

as long as there is red meat it is helping us.

The forgeries meme got the story play again.

Even Judy Dandruff was reporting the allegations.

[SoCalDemocrat]

19. wrong

Most didn't believe the Swiftboat attacks on Kerry

In spite of that he lost 9% of Veteran votes.

This story gets airtime and Bush should be called on to refute it if it's not accurate! Quit debating the report, start demanding a Bush response.

[kentuck]

29. I've been known to flip flop on occasion...

if I see my position is wrong. :)

[Catherine Vincent]

15. Right. And he was telling other people too...not just Hodges.

[Guaranteed]

18. Everyone oughta send that WP clipping and link to as

many news outlets as possible. They need to know that Hodges has said this.

It's the final icing.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Guaranteed]

24. Yes, I did.

And the part that struck me was the whole "his commanding officer says that he was talking about that very thing with him" part.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Guaranteed]

30. He's apparently not taking phone calls now. nt

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Guaranteed]

38. Yeah, it's because, like he's said, he doesn't want to hurt Bush. nt

[quaoar]

26. I read it

You're awfully quick to jump to that conclusion based on that article.

[Guaranteed]

28. Some people are working AWFULLY hard against this here

on DU.

[kentuck]

32. Look at who contributed to the article ? at the end of article...

Howard "Whore" Kurtz....We should be skeptical.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Guaranteed]

34. That's because you're listening to their BS speculation

and guessing, and some dumb wife that wasn't even in the guy's office. What the hell does she know?

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Chomskyite]

33. Drudge has zero evidence for his claim

At this point it would be more of a wonder if the documents were fake than if they were real.

If they're fake:

1) The White House was also taken in, since when CBS gave them copies, they simply threw up their hands and sent Bartlett out to give out the "but W was TRYING to obey the order." crap

2) They would have faked the Hodges corroboration. Other reporters seeking to verify Hodges would expose CBS' ruse.

3) They're incredibly consistent with the facts that have emerged from other investigations done by parties not working in concert.

4) The only party to this story with a history of faking such documents is the Karl Rove machine, and if this is traced to him, he's going down. He'd be betraying his own candidate. He'd never work in politics again. Not only that . . . a lot of the people he works WITH would never work in politics again.

5) Why wouldn't they be even more damaging? Why wouldn't they include a revelation of W's drug use or of horseplay on duty? If you're going for a yard, why not go for a touchdown?

[shraby]

37. CBS has always been a creditable news source

not known for putting out false information. They research their stuff and in this case I would bet my bottom dollar they went the whole nine yards in checking it for authenticity. Our job is to let other news sources that we stand behind CBS.
Get busy du'ers and start emailing Washington Post and all the rest.

[Guaranteed]

39. Hodges said Killian talked to him about this.

That's the end of it. All the bullshit circumstances and second-guessing don't even matter. The guy was there, he knows.