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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) |
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Thrill
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Mon Dec-08-08 09:06 AM Original message |
Obama education pick sparks conflict |
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Peace Patriot
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Mon Dec-08-08 12:07 PM Response to Original message |
1. "Here we go with two more factions of the so called 'Democratic Party' whining" |
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polichick
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Mon Dec-08-08 01:16 PM Response to Reply #1 |
29. Well said. |
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Thrill
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Mon Dec-08-08 02:22 PM Response to Reply #1 |
36. I don't want to shut anyone up. But I do get pissed |
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Two Americas
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Mon Dec-08-08 04:21 PM Response to Reply #36 |
38. not true |
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Generator
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Mon Dec-08-08 04:52 PM Response to Reply #36 |
44. Well this argument is asinine |
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Peace Patriot
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Tue Dec-09-08 08:39 AM Response to Reply #36 |
88. Well, if we "bitch" and "complain" loud enough, maybe some bad things WON'T happen. |
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polichick
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Tue Dec-09-08 08:17 PM Response to Reply #36 |
97. Sometimes these names are floated just to get public reaction, ya know. |
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YvonneCa
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Tue Dec-09-08 11:24 PM Response to Reply #97 |
102. I know...and so we... |
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Alter Ego
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Mon Dec-08-08 12:10 PM Response to Original message |
2. Klein sounds like a nightmare. |
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Fabio
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Mon Dec-08-08 12:16 PM Response to Reply #2 |
3. if you live in nyc, |
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Alter Ego
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Mon Dec-08-08 12:19 PM Response to Reply #3 |
4. I live in rural MA. |
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GarbagemanLB
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Mon Dec-08-08 12:21 PM Response to Reply #4 |
6. So...how the fuck else should their performance be evaluated? Or should they be untouchable? |
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Alter Ego
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Mon Dec-08-08 12:27 PM Response to Reply #6 |
9. It's utter bullshit to tie teachers' fates to student performance. |
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YvonneCa
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Mon Dec-08-08 01:08 PM Response to Reply #9 |
25. Or stays there until retirement, like some here have... |
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Teaser
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Mon Dec-08-08 01:19 PM Response to Reply #9 |
30. Though, a question remains... |
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proud2BlibKansan
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Mon Dec-08-08 09:04 PM Response to Reply #30 |
72. We should be judged on our instructional skills |
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Teaser
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Tue Dec-09-08 01:41 PM Response to Reply #72 |
90. I agree, but how does one measure that? |
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proud2BlibKansan
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Tue Dec-09-08 04:50 PM Response to Reply #90 |
91. They can be measured through observations |
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elizm
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Wed Dec-10-08 06:23 AM Response to Reply #91 |
114. But even those can be subjective...depending on the evaluator. |
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proud2BlibKansan
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Wed Dec-10-08 06:40 AM Response to Reply #114 |
115. And the Art teacher? Or the counselor? |
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YvonneCa
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Wed Dec-10-08 03:06 PM Response to Reply #115 |
116. We just won't do those things anymore, and that way... |
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mwei924
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Mon Dec-08-08 06:06 PM Response to Reply #9 |
47. I'd say test score IMPROVEMENT is key. |
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YvonneCa
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Mon Dec-08-08 06:27 PM Response to Reply #47 |
52. As long as it's 'growth' in test scores... |
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mwei924
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Mon Dec-08-08 06:32 PM Response to Reply #52 |
53. If you're a teacher, and over time, your students show zero improvement.. |
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YvonneCa
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Mon Dec-08-08 06:38 PM Response to Reply #53 |
55. Do you know how NCLB works? n/t |
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mwei924
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Mon Dec-08-08 06:46 PM Response to Reply #55 |
56. I'm not in favor of most of NCLB, but testing is what gets kids into college. |
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YvonneCa
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Mon Dec-08-08 07:14 PM Response to Reply #56 |
57. Testing is not the problem. It's how the results are used... |
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mwei924
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Mon Dec-08-08 07:19 PM Response to Reply #57 |
58. Like I said, you shouldn't get fired after one semester for bad testing. |
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YvonneCa
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Mon Dec-08-08 07:35 PM Response to Reply #58 |
61. You really don't understand NCLB or... |
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proud2BlibKansan
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Wed Dec-10-08 04:21 PM Response to Reply #56 |
120. That's fine; but we can come up with lots better ways to evaluate teachers |
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shellgame26
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Wed Dec-10-08 12:09 AM Response to Reply #53 |
107. How about if |
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shellgame26
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Wed Dec-10-08 12:27 AM Response to Reply #53 |
109. I'm sorry but |
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Doremus
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Wed Dec-10-08 12:17 AM Response to Reply #47 |
108. Colleges care about *some* tests. NCLB proficiency tests aren't one of them. |
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proud2BlibKansan
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Wed Dec-10-08 04:23 PM Response to Reply #47 |
121. You are talking apples and oranges |
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Willo
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Tue Dec-09-08 07:30 PM Response to Reply #9 |
92. Any teacher who views their students in that fashion is a failure. |
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Nicholas D Wolfwood
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Thu Dec-11-08 09:22 AM Response to Reply #9 |
131. You can still easily measure the value added by a teacher. |
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YvonneCa
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Fri Dec-12-08 02:47 PM Response to Reply #131 |
159. You are making some huge assumptions... |
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YvonneCa
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Mon Dec-08-08 12:30 PM Response to Reply #6 |
10. Not untouchable. But teachers don't control all... |
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HiFructosePronSyrup
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Mon Dec-08-08 04:34 PM Response to Reply #6 |
40. You're asking how should a teacher's performance be evaluated? |
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AnotherMother4Peace
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Mon Dec-08-08 10:04 PM Response to Reply #6 |
76. Should their performance be evaluated by the test scores of students who have no business |
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YvonneCa
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Tue Dec-09-08 12:24 AM Response to Reply #76 |
87. Your last line says it all. "No Child Left Behind sets students... |
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Donald Ian Rankin
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Thu Dec-11-08 09:22 AM Response to Reply #6 |
130. The best approach would probably be to bring in teachers from other schools. |
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GarbagemanLB
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Thu Dec-11-08 09:33 AM Response to Reply #130 |
134. The point is, there needs to be some mechanism for evaluating teachers performance. |
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Donald Ian Rankin
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Thu Dec-11-08 10:26 AM Response to Reply #134 |
136. Better no incentive system than a one that incentivises the wrong things, though. |
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Nicholas D Wolfwood
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Thu Dec-11-08 09:21 AM Response to Reply #4 |
129. Yes, because teachers should not be judged on their performance. |
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GarbagemanLB
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Mon Dec-08-08 12:20 PM Response to Original message |
5. It would help to pick someone the unions like, but at the same time, it should be someone who |
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YvonneCa
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Mon Dec-08-08 12:22 PM Response to Original message |
7. Getting it right on education is critical. A choice that alienates the very people... |
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YvonneCa
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Mon Dec-08-08 12:45 PM Response to Reply #7 |
14. You know, after reading some of the responses here... |
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old mark
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Mon Dec-08-08 12:56 PM Response to Reply #14 |
19. I have to agree. The teachers I know are in complete agreement |
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YvonneCa
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Mon Dec-08-08 01:02 PM Response to Reply #19 |
22. Your words: "the idea that teachers are the enemy is a GOP/RW idea ... |
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madfloridian
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Mon Dec-08-08 12:59 PM Response to Reply #14 |
21. As a retired teacher I thank you for your statement. |
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YvonneCa
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Mon Dec-08-08 01:03 PM Response to Reply #21 |
23. And I thank you for yours. I agree that... |
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annabanana
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Mon Dec-08-08 10:22 PM Response to Reply #14 |
78. Thank you for laying that out for us. |
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YvonneCa
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Tue Dec-09-08 12:08 AM Response to Reply #78 |
83. Great post. I can only tell you that 'teaching to the test'... |
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Nicholas D Wolfwood
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Thu Dec-11-08 09:30 AM Response to Reply #83 |
133. The problem has more to do with the tests themselves, not the concept of testing. |
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YvonneCa
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Thu Dec-11-08 06:04 PM Response to Reply #133 |
138. I agree. But, as it currently is, the exact minutes for... |
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Nicholas D Wolfwood
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Fri Dec-12-08 10:04 AM Response to Reply #138 |
142. That, however, is nowhere to be found in NCLB. |
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YvonneCa
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Fri Dec-12-08 11:32 AM Response to Reply #142 |
145. There's nothing in there that says 'Only teach math... |
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Alter Ego
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Mon Dec-08-08 12:52 PM Response to Reply #7 |
16. Agreeing with this. |
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YvonneCa
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Mon Dec-08-08 12:58 PM Response to Reply #16 |
20. EXCELLENT post. We are in complete... |
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Alter Ego
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Mon Dec-08-08 01:14 PM Response to Reply #20 |
27. You and my parents are so battle-scarred that you should get fucking Purple Hearts. |
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DemBones DemBones
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Tue Dec-09-08 08:35 PM Response to Reply #27 |
100. I tell people that teachers DO work twelve months a year -- they just |
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YvonneCa
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Tue Dec-09-08 11:28 PM Response to Reply #100 |
104. That would be true. n/t |
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illuminaughty
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Wed Dec-10-08 02:46 AM Response to Reply #16 |
111. Great rant. |
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shellgame26
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Tue Dec-09-08 08:35 PM Response to Reply #7 |
99. I totally agree with you and I just love how |
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YvonneCa
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Tue Dec-09-08 11:43 PM Response to Reply #99 |
106. Thanks for your response. I have seen so many... |
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Nicholas D Wolfwood
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Thu Dec-11-08 09:27 AM Response to Reply #7 |
132. You say you believe in public education reform. |
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YvonneCa
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Thu Dec-11-08 06:20 PM Response to Reply #132 |
139. Here are a few of my favorites... |
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Nicholas D Wolfwood
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Fri Dec-12-08 10:24 AM Response to Reply #139 |
143. My responses... |
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YvonneCa
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Fri Dec-12-08 11:35 AM Response to Reply #143 |
146. I am not anti- testing. I just want to teach... |
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Nicholas D Wolfwood
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Fri Dec-12-08 11:41 AM Response to Reply #146 |
148. Fair enough. |
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YvonneCa
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Fri Dec-12-08 12:47 PM Response to Reply #148 |
155. It also caused a CYA mentality... |
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YvonneCa
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Fri Dec-12-08 11:38 AM Response to Reply #143 |
147. I agree with you on #2, except... |
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Nicholas D Wolfwood
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Fri Dec-12-08 11:56 AM Response to Reply #147 |
152. I think too many people in the education community clinged for dear life after NCLB was passed. |
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YvonneCa
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Fri Dec-12-08 12:53 PM Response to Reply #152 |
156. It was also a failure to anticipate results. Just like the ... |
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YvonneCa
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Fri Dec-12-08 11:42 AM Response to Reply #143 |
149. 'Tracking' is done by educators. I am against... |
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Nicholas D Wolfwood
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Fri Dec-12-08 11:53 AM Response to Reply #149 |
151. Agreed entirely. |
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YvonneCa
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Fri Dec-12-08 12:57 PM Response to Reply #151 |
157. YAaaaY! We actually agree... |
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YvonneCa
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Fri Dec-12-08 12:29 PM Response to Reply #143 |
153. As to #4, we disagree. From an earlier ... |
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YvonneCa
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Fri Dec-12-08 12:39 PM Response to Reply #143 |
154. And for #5...I agree. The reasons those things... |
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YvonneCa
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Thu Dec-11-08 06:26 PM Response to Reply #132 |
140. P.S. ... |
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Nicholas D Wolfwood
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Fri Dec-12-08 10:30 AM Response to Reply #140 |
144. Re: unions |
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YvonneCa
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Fri Dec-12-08 01:07 PM Response to Reply #144 |
158. Tired old complaints... |
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FrenchieCat
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Mon Dec-08-08 12:26 PM Response to Original message |
8. Has Obama named anyone yet? Cause I hadn't heard. |
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YvonneCa
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Mon Dec-08-08 12:31 PM Response to Reply #8 |
11. Not that I know of. n/t |
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FrenchieCat
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Mon Dec-08-08 12:35 PM Response to Reply #11 |
12. Because the headline of the post is "Obama Education pick sparks Conflict".... |
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YvonneCa
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Mon Dec-08-08 12:48 PM Response to Reply #12 |
15. The headline of the post is the same as the AP article linked. n/t |
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alwysdrunk
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Mon Dec-08-08 12:37 PM Response to Original message |
13. The students are more important to me than the teachers. |
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Yukari Yakumo
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Mon Dec-08-08 12:54 PM Response to Reply #13 |
17. I've been a student and (breifly) a teacher |
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YvonneCa
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Mon Dec-08-08 12:55 PM Response to Reply #13 |
18. This is what I mean about divisiveness. When did this... |
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alwysdrunk
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Mon Dec-08-08 01:07 PM Response to Reply #18 |
24. Because the teachers are organized and have political clout |
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YvonneCa
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Mon Dec-08-08 01:14 PM Response to Reply #24 |
26. Just so you know, the Republicans also demonize unions... |
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alwysdrunk
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Mon Dec-08-08 01:23 PM Response to Reply #26 |
32. We need unions to fight worker exploitation, no doubt |
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YvonneCa
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Mon Dec-08-08 02:12 PM Response to Reply #32 |
35. The employer is the state... |
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4lbs
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Mon Dec-08-08 01:15 PM Response to Original message |
28. We should remember what PE Obama said in his DNC acceptance speech about teachers and schools. |
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harun
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Mon Dec-08-08 01:20 PM Response to Original message |
31. Dean should get Education. |
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w4rma
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Mon Dec-08-08 01:44 PM Response to Reply #31 |
34. Agreed. To overhaul the system, we need a high-profile reformer (who is opposed to NCLB). (nt) |
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w4rma
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Mon Dec-08-08 01:43 PM Response to Original message |
33. The unions represent the teachers. The teachers know what is best from a first-person perspective. |
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mwei924
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Mon Dec-08-08 04:45 PM Response to Reply #33 |
43. The unions are looking out for their jobs, not the students. |
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w4rma
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Mon Dec-08-08 05:31 PM Response to Reply #43 |
45. So your problem is with the tenure system? (nt) |
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mwei924
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Mon Dec-08-08 05:52 PM Response to Reply #45 |
46. I'd like to see merit pay as well. |
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w4rma
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Mon Dec-08-08 07:21 PM Response to Reply #46 |
59. No Child Left Behind and the Standardized tests penalize teachers like the one you liked, however.nt |
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YvonneCa
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Mon Dec-08-08 07:37 PM Response to Reply #59 |
63. I agree. Some here are not familiar with NCLB, other... |
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ulysses
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Mon Dec-08-08 08:04 PM Response to Reply #46 |
68. talk to me. |
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shellgame26
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Wed Dec-10-08 01:02 AM Response to Reply #68 |
110. Exactly |
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ulysses
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Wed Dec-10-08 05:16 PM Response to Reply #110 |
124. you didn't get the memo? |
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proud2BlibKansan
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Tue Dec-09-08 08:13 PM Response to Reply #46 |
94. History isn't tested under NCLB |
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YvonneCa
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Tue Dec-09-08 11:27 PM Response to Reply #94 |
103. And that teacher would also lose respect ... |
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ulysses
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Mon Dec-08-08 08:00 PM Response to Reply #33 |
66. well said. |
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w4rma
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Mon Dec-08-08 08:59 PM Response to Reply #66 |
71. Thanks, friend! And you, also! (nt) |
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last_texas_dem
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Mon Dec-08-08 04:10 PM Response to Original message |
37. Yeah, because waiting until a pick is made before expressing one's views |
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YvonneCa
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Tue Dec-09-08 10:57 AM Response to Reply #37 |
89. ... |
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BlooInBloo
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Mon Dec-08-08 04:29 PM Response to Original message |
39. Teachers held **accountable**? I thought everybody was crowing about his *pragmatism*? |
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brentspeak
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Mon Dec-08-08 04:35 PM Response to Reply #39 |
41. Lobbying hard for that well-deserved, long-overdue tombstone? |
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HiFructosePronSyrup
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Mon Dec-08-08 06:12 PM Response to Reply #41 |
48. Sounds like he's one of those people upset... |
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senseandsensibility
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Mon Dec-08-08 07:32 PM Response to Reply #39 |
60. deleted |
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proud2BlibKansan
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Tue Dec-09-08 08:15 PM Response to Reply #39 |
96. WTF? |
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shellgame26
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Wed Dec-10-08 04:01 AM Response to Reply #39 |
113. Some of those things you mention have been done |
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PVnRT
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Wed Dec-10-08 03:59 PM Response to Reply #39 |
117. That is the single most idiotic reply I've read in this thread. |
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ulysses
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Wed Dec-10-08 05:13 PM Response to Reply #117 |
123. it's a compulstion w/ Bloo where teachers are concerned. n/t |
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Nicholas D Wolfwood
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Thu Dec-11-08 09:34 AM Response to Reply #39 |
135. One teeny problem |
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mwei924
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Mon Dec-08-08 04:43 PM Response to Original message |
42. He should have some distance between himself and the unions. |
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YvonneCa
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Mon Dec-08-08 06:36 PM Response to Reply #42 |
54. What if you're an algebra teacher and you can't teach... |
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mwei924
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Mon Dec-08-08 07:53 PM Response to Reply #54 |
65. Those kids should be repeating a level of math.. |
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YvonneCa
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Mon Dec-08-08 08:02 PM Response to Reply #65 |
67. K-8 schools assign students to a grade based on... |
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mwei924
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Mon Dec-08-08 08:06 PM Response to Reply #67 |
69. Middle schools assign Math by level. |
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YvonneCa
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Mon Dec-08-08 09:43 PM Response to Reply #69 |
73. I think 'leveling' students for math instruction is... |
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shellgame26
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Wed Dec-10-08 03:30 AM Response to Reply #69 |
112. Ok I've got it |
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DemBones DemBones
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Thu Dec-11-08 07:15 AM Response to Reply #67 |
127. No, students in high school and college don't have to have done the |
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tigereye
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Mon Dec-08-08 06:18 PM Response to Original message |
49. I for one hate seeing the endless blame placed on teachers |
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YvonneCa
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Mon Dec-08-08 06:24 PM Response to Reply #49 |
51. Thank you. n/t |
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tigereye
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Mon Dec-08-08 10:01 PM Response to Reply #51 |
75. you are welcome! |
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YvonneCa
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Mon Dec-08-08 06:21 PM Response to Original message |
50. I'm going to repeat this, because I'm having trouble... |
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senseandsensibility
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Mon Dec-08-08 07:37 PM Response to Reply #50 |
62. Thanks for fighting the good fight |
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YvonneCa
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Mon Dec-08-08 07:39 PM Response to Reply #62 |
64. I appreciate you saying this. This is a discussion that needs to... |
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Hippo_Tron
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Mon Dec-08-08 08:37 PM Response to Reply #50 |
70. I agree with you somewhat, but |
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YvonneCa
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Mon Dec-08-08 09:46 PM Response to Reply #70 |
74. I would like to see a pathway for advancement created... |
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Hippo_Tron
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Mon Dec-08-08 11:13 PM Response to Reply #74 |
81. I agree with that amongst any other things regarding reform of the teaching position |
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YvonneCa
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Tue Dec-09-08 12:00 AM Response to Reply #81 |
82. That's true about respect... |
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Yukari Yakumo
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Tue Dec-09-08 08:08 PM Response to Reply #70 |
93. I agree with much of the sentiment here. |
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gravity
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Mon Dec-08-08 10:12 PM Response to Original message |
77. Teachers need to be held accountable |
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YvonneCa
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Tue Dec-09-08 12:10 AM Response to Reply #77 |
84. You are correct that there is no perfect solution. But... |
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Yukari Yakumo
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Tue Dec-09-08 08:15 PM Response to Reply #84 |
95. But letting them dominate it has been a proven failure too. {nt} |
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YvonneCa
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Tue Dec-09-08 11:33 PM Response to Reply #95 |
105. They haven't done that since NCLB. IMO. n/t |
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PVnRT
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Wed Dec-10-08 04:03 PM Response to Reply #95 |
118. LOL!!! When have they EVER dominated anything? |
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YvonneCa
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Wed Dec-10-08 05:04 PM Response to Reply #118 |
122. ... |
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Yukari Yakumo
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Thu Dec-11-08 02:52 AM Response to Reply #118 |
125. Take a look at what's happening in Math |
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YvonneCa
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Thu Dec-11-08 06:36 PM Response to Reply #125 |
141. That's a perfect example of why teachers MUST be included... |
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Yukari Yakumo
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Fri Dec-12-08 11:51 AM Response to Reply #141 |
150. The problem is... |
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PVnRT
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Wed Dec-10-08 04:03 PM Response to Reply #95 |
119. n/t |
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MasonJar
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Mon Dec-08-08 10:27 PM Response to Original message |
79. Excuse me, but it is not the teachers who are culpable for America's education |
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YvonneCa
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Tue Dec-09-08 12:14 AM Response to Reply #79 |
85. Thanks. Teachers cannot do this alone. But Obama's... |
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MadHound
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Mon Dec-08-08 10:41 PM Response to Original message |
80. You want change in education? You want higher performing schools? Then pay for it! |
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YvonneCa
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Tue Dec-09-08 12:21 AM Response to Reply #80 |
86. What a thoughtful post! I agree. And if people really realized... |
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Zodiak
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Tue Dec-09-08 08:20 PM Response to Original message |
98. For the record, I am for tenure of teachers |
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YvonneCa
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Tue Dec-09-08 11:23 PM Response to Reply #98 |
101. Wow. I could not have said it better. Thank you so much for ... |
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FlaGranny
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Thu Dec-11-08 06:43 AM Response to Reply #98 |
126. I agree with your post. |
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DemBones DemBones
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Thu Dec-11-08 07:22 AM Response to Original message |
128. Here's the bottom line on "accountability" and "merit pay": |
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YvonneCa
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Thu Dec-11-08 03:53 PM Response to Reply #128 |
137. It's not logical...or fair to teachers. But one reason I think... |
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