Why isn't Kerry raising a stink about Bush skipping debates?

[incapsulated]

I don't get it, are they just going to let this slide? I mean, this is a gimmie. Bush has no defense that doesn't make him look afraid of the American people ("they might be partisans!!") or too much of a wuss to debate Kerry.

Kerry could beat him over the head with this easily: He's afraid to answer questions put to him by an audience of ordinary Americans, he doesn't want to be in the company of citizens that haven't taken a loyalty oath, he's a chickenshit that's afriad to debate Kerry...

It's not just scoring hits on Bush that matters either. We need these debates, as many as we can get. Kerry should not just let it go that easily.

[Bunny]

1. Good point.

You know they would be doing this, if the situation were reversed.

[lil-petunia]

2. As I said before, some of his campaign people are braindead

This is so obvious that it pains me to even think that they are missing this opportunity.

WHAT IS IT WITH THIS CAMPAIGN? Are they TRYING to lose? Is their roll model Dukakis? Or McGovern?

This is (was) our election to lose. And it looks like that is precisely what will happen in 50 or so days.

I am sick. Of the situation, of the campaign direction, of the lousy advice he is following.

[JI7]

4. not brain dead, they GET that Bush gets by on low expectations

and they don't want to allow bush to get away with that again.

[incapsulated]

8. You can only lower expectations so much...

Bush hasn't done any one-on-one debates since he was in the primaries four years ago. He has a long record of failure to defend, now. And one or two "doesn't drool on himself" debates is all he wants. The more he does, the higher the expections will be each time.

[JI7]

25. you didn't hear them kissing Bush's ass after the Convention speech?

[incapsulated]

29. Right, so...

Let's not ever criticize Bush on anything ever again, because the media loves him, anyways. Is that what you are saying?

[JI7]

30. the debates are still scheduled a month away

and they are calling on them to agree to debates. what do you want them to do ? to attack bush personally and make him appear afraid to debate ? so what happens when he shows up to debate ? what happens if he doesn't fuck up the debates ? he did beat al gore in 2000 debates.

[incapsulated]

31. Also...

I stand by my contention that the more debates Bush does, the greater the probability that he will have a major fuck-up.

He only succeeds under the tightest of controlled environments, his rallies are a prime example. He is under pressure now and he isn't as easy to predict as he was four years ago. He doesn't look good and the debates are going to be a strain on him.

[JI7]

32. he will only do 3 debates at the most

[JI7]

3. it's an attempt to lower expectations for Bush

it's very likely this is a political move by the bush people where they want kerry and other dems to get up in arms about it. so when bush DOES debate he is seen as having done something brave and succeeding just based on that alone. and of course if bush doesn't fuck up too badly, they consider him a winner.

[incapsulated]

6. If a tree falls in the forrest...

So far, since the Kerry campaign hasn't raised this as an issue, nobody is even aware that Bush is skipping a debate who isn't a political junkie.

He's getting out of debates and it's not even going to cost him. It's win-win. I don't see how that helps Kerry in the least.

If they are counting on Kerry keeping silent, and he does, they win.

[JI7]

7. Kerry has already agreed to the debates and they are calling on Bush

campaign to get on with agreeing with it. but they aren't going to start attacking Bush personally in ways where he will end up getting credit just for showing up.

[Nay]

39. I agree completely, incap. Only political junkies know there were

three debates, and most citizens wouldn't notice even if there weren't any at all. I think Bush will agree to one, just to keep up appearances, and yes, Kerry should jump on him for that, but to me it is still win-win for Bush if he manages to keep away from all debates -- it will be made to sound like the Dems are just piddly little nags, trying to drag the great president away from his oh-so-important duties (like clearing brush). Still, I wish Kerry would press for debates, if only to show that he isn't going to let them get away with absolutely everything.

[bklyncowgirl]

5. Absolutely

The more Kerry lets this go by the more he--not Bush looks like a wimp.

The American people have a right to hear from both candidates and have both candidate answer their questions.

If President Bush refuses any terms of any debate he is a coward who is afraid to defend his record and must be proclaimed far and wide for the girlie man that he is!

[slor]

9. Kerry has challenged him to "debate"...

since the spring, whether this is an attempt to make * look good or not, Kerry must demand that debate!

[incapsulated]

14. There were three debates already scheduled

Bush is trying to get out of one for the lamest reasons imaginable. This is different than the usual call of the challenger to debate "every week" that is always ignored. These are the Presidential Debates! And the President doesn't want to make his case to the people against the Democratic nominee! This is unacceptable, and should be presented as such, as often as possible.

:hi:

[slor]

20. That is my point...

if he was ready to debate every week, in non-official debates, then he should be fightin' mad that the monkey is trying to weasel out of the official debates.

[incapsulated]

22. Well...

It's kind of a symbolic ritual for the challenger to call for debates every other day. They know it will be ignored but insist on doing it anyway. I doubt he was at all surprised that he his offer was turned down, it always is.

These were the "official" debates, the ones that they are actually supposed to show up for, is my point. That's what makes it so infuriating.

[JI7]

15. Kerry challenged him to debates during the primaries

even after when there were early attacks on his service and protests kerry challenged bush to a debate on the vietnam war since it was THEM not Kerry who brought it up first by trying to attack him on it.

[Deja Q]

10. Kerry not responding shows his lack of leadership too.

Like body language, what isn't said can speak volumes.

This is not a dig at Kerry, but it is also the truth.

Kerry MUST RESPOND to this, period.

[JI7]

19. huh ? Kerry has always called on him to debate

why are you repeating right wing talking points ?

[Deja Q]

33. I repeat nothing except the perception some people will see.

Kerry needs to respond to this big-time. Previous calls of "let's debate" will mean NOTHING if he doesn't up the ante by pulling out the big guns.

This is not a right-wing talking point of any sort, it's the sad truth.

I also did a cursory google search, and found only one article (from somebody's blog) that says Bush is dipping out of the debates. It was from September 5. Show me a link with Kerry's all-out response and I'll apologize big-time.

Food for thought:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/19991027/aponline185912_000.htm

[JI7]

34. has Bush said he will not debate for sure ?

how do you go after someone a month before debates are scheduled when they havne't even turned down the debates ?

[Leilani]

38. James Baker has been named head of Bush debate/debate team...

It is downright silly!

Kerry does not have to wait for a formal answer...he should be out there asking for debates.

Truly, I do not get the strategery.

[Pepperbelly]

40. my understanding is that Vernon Jordan is Kerry's rep and that ...

negotiations are still underway.

[Killarney]

11. I think this is why.

I brought this up to a Bush supporter (that Bush only wants to do 2 debates and Kerry wants 3) and the Bush supporter said that it's the same thing Clinton did. Clinton only agreed to two debates and that's just what the incumbent always does.

So, maybe that's why we can't make a bigger stink. ???

[Skittles]

12. I heard last night that Bush only wants to do one

and I don't see what Clinton has to do with it, this is between Bush and Kerry.

[Democat]

16. Does the right wing want Bush to be like Bill Clinton, of course not!

If Bush wants the media to start comparing him to Clinton then let's hear it.

So far, we haven't heard much from Kerry about this.

[Democat]

13. Kerry's people miss so many opportunities to knock Bush down!

Kerry's campaign seems to be run by typical modern Democrats who don't want to offend anyone so they let the right wing get away with murder.

[JI7]

18. i guess you didn't see Carville tell Eskew to get his "boy" down to debate

[gonefishing]

17. Read this archived link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1869830


I knew he was going to try to get out of the debates...

http://www.ludd.net/retort/msg00157.html

Snip...

The author of Boxed In: The Culture of TV believes "Bush is not an imbecile. He's not a puppet. I think that Bush is a sociopathic personality. I think he's incapable of empathy. He has an inordinate sense of his own entitlement, and he's a very skilled manipulator. And in all the snickering about his alleged idiocy, this is what a lot of people miss."

Miller's judgment ? that an unelected president might suffer from a clinical personality disorder ? is much heavier than being called the global village idiot. "He has no trouble speaking off the cuff when he's speaking punitively, when he's talking about violence, when he's talking about revenge. When he struts and thumps his chest, his syntax and grammar are fine," Miller mentions. "It's only when he leaps into the wild blue yonder of compassion, or idealism, or altruism, that he makes these hilarious mistakes."

Bush even has trouble repeating comforting clichés. "Fool me once, shame ... shame on ... you," Long, uncomfortable pause. "Fool me - can't get fooled again!"

While the world was laughing, Miller saw something darker. "What's revealing about this is that Bush could not say, `Shame on me' to save his life. That's a completely alien idea to him. This is a guy who is absolutely proud of his own inflexibility and rectitude," wrote Miller.

Miller says that Bush saying, "I know how hard it is to put food on your family" is not 'cause he's stupid, but "because he doesn't care about people who can't put food on the table."

When Bush is envisioning "a foreign-handed foreign policy," Miller contends it's because he can't keep his focus on things that mean nothing to him. "When he tries to talk about what this country stands for, or about democracy, he can't do it," Miller observes.

According to Miller, this is why GW is so closely watched by his handlers. "Not because he'll say something stupid," the Star paraphrased, "but because he'll overindulge in the language of violence and punishment at which he excels."

"He's a very angry guy, a hostile guy," Miller says. "He's much like Nixon. So they're very, very careful to choreograph every move he makes. They don't want him anywhere near protestors, because he would lose his temper." Adds this media expert, "It would be a grave mistake to just play him for laughs."

[BootinUp]

21. I haven't heard anything about the debates from the Kerry camp

in over a week. GOOD QUESTION!!!

[incapsulated]

24. Hi Jim!

Thanks. :hi:

[Democat]

23. Maybe this thread in LBN is the reason they haven't said much?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x820865

Kerry can't decide who to listen to inside the campaign?

[zulchzulu]

26. I would imagine Kerry will be bringing it up soon if not already

I'll be seeing him speak this week. Maybe we can get some signs done.

[incapsulated]

28. I hope so

I was thinking that maybe they wanted the AWOL issue to settle before bringing it up, but I haven't even heard warning shots yet, and I'm afraid they will just let this go. :(

[gonefishing]

27. A Must Listen (NPR)

http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1979261

[wurzel]

35. Too Soon.

They could just deny it right now.

[StopThief]

36. Two reasons. . . .

1) It would play in Bush's favor as far as the expectations game goes. Kerry is currently trying to claim that Bush is a very good debater ans has won every debate he ever had.

2) Bill Clinton in 1996 also only debated twice when three was the recommended number. As a matter of fact, it was also the middle Missouri debate that Clinton skipped.

[Leilani]

37. You are exactly right!

This one is a no brainer!

They are letting Bush delay, delay, & they are not saying a word.

Call them on it...Is Prez Bush afraid to debate?

And the Bush debate team is being headed by their Consiglieri, James Baker. So he will get a good deal for Bush. What a joke!

[The Backlash Cometh]

41. Bush is getting coddled, like always. People seem to think it's

okay that his path is sprinkled with rose pedals. Certainly not a grunt like us.


And that should be the direction of the criticism. If it were us running for president, we would have to debate. What makes Bush so special?