Did Obama DO the right thing on document release and no Prosecution of those guided by them?

[Perky]

Poll question: Did Obama DO the right thing on document release and no Prosecution of those guided by them?

The disclosure was generally speaking a good thing.
THere is also a difference her between a "Nuremberg defense" (I was following orders)and the fact that DOJ signed off on the techniques. I am not excusing the torturers, but I an not sure they can or should be prosecuted in US Courts.

Maybe Ashcroft and Gonzo should stand trial either here or in the Hague. But that is not the question I am asking.

[Skittles]

1. no, those bastards should be prosecuted

[leftstreet]

2. 'we simply must prosecute'

Yep

[LakeSamish706]

3. It's a great start, now lets hope that Holder does his job and we will be....

all ok.

[DrToast]

4. Release was good and I am torn on prosecution

That's my write in vote.

[Supersedeas]

15. Prosecutions will lead one place --- to the desk of GWB and former VP Dick Cheney

[stray cat]

5. If prosecutions are in order after investigations it should be the ones who authorized it

If we want the real people behind it we should investigate at the top by freeing those given the dictates freedom to disclose the orders and actions.

[hamsterjill]

17. I agree - we need to go after the top.

Did anyone else see the exchange last evening on Countdown between Olbermann and John Dean?

I liked the points that they discussed. That being that if the Bush Administration gets off, that it essentially gives every new administration the "go ahead" to fill the justice system with only those justices who will interpret the laws in the way that they know the administration wants the laws to be interpreted.

In other words, the administration will do whatever it wants, and look to the justice system to provide the authority and justification for the actions of the administration.

I realize that each new administration appoints judgest that are like minded. But the Bush administration went WAY beyond that concept. And the Bush administration needs to be held accountable.

[quakerboy]

6. There is no excuse for torture

Following orders is no justification. Not even those approved by a lawyer.

[Vidar]

7. Hell no!

[earthside]

8. I Don't Get It.

I know this is just a silly little DU poll, but how can 58 percent of DUers responding say that prosecutions are not viable?

Maybe the polling question is worded poorly, but hearing what is in the released memos, how can anyone think that there is not a case for prosecutions? More importantly isn't prosecution necessary if we are to restore our honor?

I feel like President Obama has punched me in the gut.

Bush-Cheney rules!!!

Say it ain't so, Barack.

[Kaleva]

10. A post by jberryhill

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8347953#8348249

"The DoJ cannot render a legal opinion stating "X is lawful" and then turn around and prosecute someone for doing X.

This is not exactly a situation of "following an unlawful order".

The DoJ officials responsible for the opinions have engaged in practice violations and there may be some hooks to get them.

But, otherwise, the Rule of Law can be a bitch.

Further - the Nuremburg prosecution was not the government involved in the underlying crimes, which is why that was not an "express opinion of authority charged with enforcement" situation.

You cannot, in the US, get a conviction in a case prosecuted by the DoJ wherein the defendant was told by the US AG that the action was lawful. It is a valid defense under US law.

If you don't like US law, then I don't know what to say to that.

To put it another way, the Nuremberg defendants were not prosecuted under Nazi law, either."

[Sebastian Doyle]

9. The Bush Crime Family cannot get away with this.

They funded Hitler - and got away with it. They killed JFK, RFK, and MLK - and got away with it. They fucking CREATED Al Qaeda, and Poppy attended a champagne brunch with Osama's goddamn brother toasting their success as the World Trade center imploded - and got away with it.

When do these fucking criminals have to answer for their crimes? :grr:

[LittleBlue]

11. It's a disgusting, shameful travesty

Both releasing the documents and prosecution are a must.

This was a joke. I can't believe 50% of progressives are for letting Cheney and the gang get away with it.

[jewishlibrl]

12. CAT: "An order from a superior officer or a public authority may not be invoked as a justification"

Article 2 of the Convention Against Torture:

Article 2
1. Each State Party shall take effective legislative, administrative, judicial or other measures to prevent acts of torture in any territory under its jurisdiction.
2. No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat of war, internal political in stability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture.

3. An order from a superior officer or a public authority may not be invoked as a justification of torture.

http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/h_cat39.htm

[LittleBlue]

14. Precisely. Those lawyers are now free.

Pres. Obama just contradicted the law!

[TayTay]

13. Depends

As I understand it, he has not ruled out prosecuting the higher ups who authorized this. I am not as interested in prosecuting the on-the-ground people who did this as the ones who authorized it.

So, the jury is still out, so to speak, on my opinion on this.

[jberryhill]

16. Other

The viability of the estoppel defense needs to be reviewed on a case by case basis, and I have to believe there is ongoing analysis and investigation.

[WeDidIt]

18. If there's no prosecution, we owe a lot of people a lot of apologies

Everybody in the Nuremburg trials who claimed they were only following orders need to be apologized to because they did nothing wrong under the new paradigmm.

Every Japanese soldier who was convicted of war crimes and claimed the same or that their torture techniques were not torture needs an apology.

Tehre were several US soldiers convicted of torture in Vietnam who need an apology now.

[Maven]

19. this poll is deceptive because options 2 and 3 should actually be one option.

[harun]

20. Other: Release was good and we need to make it very very easy

for other countries to bring charges against these people. While we might not get them at home making it impossible for them to travel because they will go on trial will get their attention and the attention of the rest of the hard core neo-con's who still think their ideology is the path for America to take.