Obama should pardon and commute sentences

[yasmina27]

of England and others convicted and/or discharged from the military due to *'s policy.

Based on Gen. Karpinsky's interview, they were simply following orders. According to Obama's statements, only the "higher ups" who ordered the torture should be prosecuted.

Let the peons go! They were only following orders!


(yes, I know the argument about Nazi peons being prosecuted and convicted for only following orders. But I believe that time and circumstances are different here)

bump and rec if you agree!

[JuniperLea]

1. I don't know how I would have reacted in their place...

We can all say, hell no! I'd never do that... but... think about it. I bet there was a lot of "it's either them or you" kind of manipulation going on.

[Jennicut]

8. Mental manipulation is quite easy to do to others

The higher ups got away scot free.

[JuniperLea]

18. See, that's the thing...

How many of us know for certain what our level of mental resistance to such things would be? Look what it did to McCain. Seriously. He is damaged. I've always felt sorry for him.

[TahitiNut]

10. I think that's the only conscionable attitude that makes any moral sense.

I have more than a little experience with military indoctrination and authoritarian organizations. While hubris might impel me to conclude that makes me immune from such influences, I just cannot in good conscience be so arrogant.

[dorkulon]

12. The way I see it, either those "just following orders" are guilty or not, whether Americans or Nazis

Either we're wrong not to prosecute ours, or we were wrong in Nuremberg. I can't see it both ways.

[JuniperLea]

20. I hate to say this...

But I do see some value in offering immunity to those who were following orders. The cancer is deep and it must be cleaned out.

[JuniperLea]

19. I shudder to think of the tactics they use

Clearly "they" care no more for the soldier than for the tortured captive. All are expendable. We are all, every one of us, expendable.

[cali]

14. you would not have been a Lynndie England

of that much, I'm certain.

[JuniperLea]

17. You'd be right

And I couldn't be forced to so those things to other humans based on fear for my own life. Now, fear for the life of one of my children... I can't make any promises. But I certainly wouldn't take pleasure in it, as it appeared Ms. England and her pals did. There's a basic personality flaw in those exhibiting that kind of behavior. Much like Cheney and his torture porn... ah... a post gone full circle.

[rug]

2. No thanks.

[denem]

3. They loved their work.

[vaberella]

5. EXACTLY. I sympathised with Karpinski but I saw the pics. They loved what they did.

I'm sure this may have happened in the CIA and I don't know if it has. However I do know in Abu Ghuraib they loved it and took pictures of it with smiles and grins on their faces. I respect they were taking orders, but they enjoyed every minute of it. They are as inhumane as the fools who gave the orders since they took pleasure in it.

[AtomicKitten]

4. torture is illegal and ignorantia juris non excusat

[vaberella]

6. I listened to her with half an ear. Her people took pleasure in such an inhumane act.

Prison was merited in my book. I don't know about the CIA agents, but so far with them....I'd imprison. If the CIA agents did the same they deserve prosecution as well.

[Jennicut]

7. She should have been punished but the higher ups got away with all of it.

The people following orders seemed to get sucked into it and were younger people in general. The higher ups should ALWAYS be punished more severely, all the way to the top.

[Politicalboi]

9. Yes times are different

But in today's world we saw what Hitler did. And back then if you went against Hitler you could or would get killed. But at the same time I want the peons to tell their story to a jury. Because now we have more cases of PTS from the ones who tortured.

[dorkulon]

11. Nothing is different.

In fact, the Nazis had much more to fear if they refused orders, death being the most likely outcome. These people could have simply refused, and the worst that could have happened would have been some time in the brig. It is every person's duty to refuse an illegal order, civilian or military.

[cali]

13. he should not.

they were a bunch of little psychopathic sadists. Catch the big fry, but don't pardon those pieces of shit.

[Hanse]

15. Is this a fucking joke?

Do people actually feel sorry for these monsters?

They should still be in prison.

[yasmina27]

22. no

[ejpoeta]

16. i always believed that these people weren't just bad apples. i always

knew that this was part of something bigger. and it makes me sick that these people are sitting in jails while the media and our government officials are giving us 101 reasons why the people who caused this crap aren't being prosecuted.

[SeaLyons]

21. The peons were victims of group-think and upbringing.

I remember thinking when I first saw the pictures that there was no way these service men and women thought up those horrendous acts on their own. We would have to believe that they brought dogs, head masks, dog collars, etc., to the prison and proceeded to abuse prisoners with no fear of retribution.

The blame was clearly at the top, and if Obama feels CIA agents that tortured should not be prosecuted, then England and the like should be exonerated.

[dorkulon]

23. Were the Nazi soldiers "victims" too?

You could say all of this about them.

[SeaLyons]

24. I think that's apples to oranges....

not the same scale.

[dorkulon]

25. In fact, the Nazis stood to die if they refused to follow orders.

Whereas U.S. soldiers had no such risk. It is actually a lot easier to refuse orders for an American soldier than it would have been for a Nazi soldier.