Burkett says how he got the Guard memos

[quaoar]

http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/09/21burkett.html

Here's a snip:

Burkett got a call "out of the blue" from someone who had seen him on MSNBC's "Hardball with Chris Matthews" in February discussing his long-standing allegation that Bush aides ordered the destruction of the then-governor's National Guard records in Austin. There are some old National Guard records that Burkett needs to see, he was told.

The caller suggested a meeting in Houston, Van Os said. Burkett told the caller they could get together in March when Burkett would be at the Houston rodeo as a trustee of the Texas Simmental Association, a group that promotes a cattle breed.

Van Os said a man unknown to Burkett walked up to the Simmental Association booth at the Astrodome and said, "Are you Bill Burkett?"

"The man gave Bill a sealed manila envelope," Van Os said, adding that it remained unopened until Burkett was in his car in the parking lot.

[kestrel91316]

1. Hmmmmmm, where was KKKarl Rove that day???

[kestrel91316]

9. Here's my theory..................

Poppy had his spooks scrub *s file several years ago, and saved the stuff they removed, then showed it to KKKarl Rove, who retyped the papers with enough flaws to be able to call them fakes, then had them given to Burkett. They knew that the SCLM would paint the words as bogus once the papers themselves were found to not be originals or photocopies of originals. Remember, Mrs. Knox said the words were true, just that the forms were not typed by her. I smell Rove.

[bain_sidhe]

2. crap! I hate having to register

but it's too intriguing to pass up.

[karnac]

5. This is more complete. No registration

Rather long..

Not trying to be a smart ass but i see this person wanting to leave this world after the harm he did...

http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20040921/1a_cover21x.art0.htm

Karnac

[belle]

11. Huh. The plot thickens...

You know: for a USA Today article, this isn't bad. Lots of potentially damning stuff that might not have gotten out there otherwise, for instance:

>Last Tuesday, doubts about the documents' authenticity grew when Killian's former secretary, Marian Carr Knox, told The Dallas Morning News that she didn't type them and that the papers appeared to be fakes.

>She repeated the account on CBS the next day. But she said in an interview with USA TODAY that Killian had written similar memos, which she had typed, and kept them in a locked drawer in his office at Ellington Air Force Base. Killian, a stickler for rules, was having trouble keeping Bush in line, she said.

...

The other part of this is: yeah, it looks like the story is indeed becoming "Burkett is some kind of nut;" but he's an INTERESTING nut, and a severely anti-Bush one. And, well, kind of a sympathetic figure, potentially, at least as USA Today makes it out, with that bit about how he and his wife have "lost everything" since leaving the Guard and his seizures.

The other part is that if Burkett is a lone nut, it's a lot harder to try to somehow tie him back to the Kerry campaign, which at the moment does not seem to be mainstream talking point (although I'm sure the freepers would like it to be so)

And the "wild sci-fi" story is going to keep peoples' interest piqued:

>After he received the documents in Houston, Burkett said, he drove home, stopping on the way at a Kinko's shop in Waco to copy the six memos. In the parking lot outside, he said, he burned the ones he had been given and the envelope they were in. Ramirez was worried about leaving forensic evidence on them that might lead back to her, Burkett said, acknowledging that the story sounded fantastic. “This is going to sound like some damn sci-fi movie,” he said.

>After keeping the copies for a couple of days, he said he drove to a location he would not specify, about 100 miles from his ranch, to put them “in cold storage.” Burkett said he took the action because he believed the papers were politically explosive and made him nervous. “I treated them like absolute TNT,” he said. “They looked to me like they were devastating.”

...

So it looks like at worst Burkett gets dismissed as a loon and CBS takes some flak for it; but I *think* (fingers crossed) that people will move on if that's the end of the story.

If that ISN'T the end of the story then it's hard to see how that would be anything but damaging to the Bush campaign, barring some kind of proof that someone in the Kerry campaign originated this. Anyway it seems like the more this gets kicked around the more references to Bush's verifiably sketchy record, among other failings, seem to make it into these stories.

Well, here's hoping, anyway; a lot of people read USA Today, so...

[shraby]

25. This makes no sense:

"After he received the documents in Houston, Burkett said, he drove home, stopping on the way at a Kinko's shop in Waco to copy the six memos. In the parking lot outside, he said, he burned the ones he had been given and the envelope they were in. Ramirez was worried about leaving forensic evidence on them that might lead back to her, Burkett said, acknowledging that the story sounded fantastic. “This is going to sound like some damn sci-fi movie,” he said."

1. Why would he make copies then burn the originals and the envelope?

2. Who is Ramirez and why would she be worried about forensic evidence? He is the one who was handling the memos.

[aquart]

15. Who the hell is Lucy Ramirez?

Is Burkett a total idiot?

[HFishbine]

31. "Who the hell is Lucy Ramirez?"

There is a Lucy Ramirez who had a baby in Midland County, Texas in 1948:

http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/tx/midland/vitals/births/1948/midlab48.txt

[grasswire]

26. it's kind of like the stress.....

Jim Hatfield was under before he "suicided." Horrible.

[quaoar]

10. I know what you mean

I had to register to get it. I'd post more of the article but the rules say no.
It is worth registering, however.

[crispini]

13. use www.bugmenot.com

to avoid logins

[Darby]

3. time to have a police artist sketch the man Burkett saw/met

and check itineraries of flights from Atlanta to Houston that weekend

[aquart]

16. I thought it was a woman. "Lucy Ramirez," right?

[yardwork]

19. Rove would never go himself

The Bush family have thousands of paid operatives. Any one of them could have done it.

It's hard to tell whether Burkett is telling the truth or lying. He's lost a lot of credibility. If he's telling the truth, then somebody has made sure that the story sounds so fantastic that he sounds like he's lying.

[Doosh]

4. "Hello, my name is Mr. Evor, here are your documents"

[Darby]

6. They met in Houston bc Abilene is too small - easy to track who went there

to figure out what hotel, etc.

OR just too lazy to get there - and there is a direct flight into Houston

What airline goes direct Atlanta to Houston, but not direct Atlanta to Dallas?

[Justitia]

23. Continental? -eom

[FatSlob]

7. This is a huge load of crap.

Does he actually expect anybody to believe this? I'll tell you where he got them.

C:windows/my computer/mydocuments/bringdownbush.doc

Burkett has greatly damaged JK's chances by his actions. I'm pissed at him. I'm also pissed at CBS for running the story, and then standing by it while the shitstorm brewed. If CBS had come out nearly immediately and said they were wrong to have used the memos, this forgery story wouldn't have gotten the legs it did, and would be a nearly forgotten memory by now. ASSHATS! We know that the shrubbery didn't serve well, but now the focus is on the forgery, not the shrub's false service.

[aquart]

20. Burkett tried to be an honest, honorable man.

He tried to reveal corruption. He is being destroyed for it. A crook would have questioned the source of the documents. A man who deals squarely might not.

I do believe that Burkett tampered with the documents in any way. He let himself be set up, obviously. The secretary said the documents are not authentic, but typed by someone who had seen the originals. Which means that she is attesting to the fact that there were originals.

I will add, the signatures are real, so the faking had to be done by someone with experience in phonying up official documents. Gosh, who is that likely to be?

[dansolo]

36. But Burkett intentionally misled CBS

Knowing the explosive nature of the documents, he should have been up front with CBS. Hlied to the people who were actually trying to get his story out. And the worse thing is that now that he has been outed, he has turned on them and is blaming them for his own actions. That is not the actions of an honorable man.

[Darby]

8. Why not send docs by FedEx? bc a Fed Ex can be traced

[quaoar]

12. Yes, well

apparently the fax was traced too.

[Protected]

14. Burkett doesn't make any sense

He's saying that CBS misled him? Why didn't he just tell CBS the truth that he got the documents from an unknown person at a rodeo?

I'm still wondering how CBS News and Dan Rather could call Burkett an "unimpeachable source."

[liveoaktx]

39. Another thing that makes no sense-he said he had to PROTECT his source

but if there's somebody that calls you up out of the blue and then, when you go to meet her, a STRANGE MAN walks up and hands you an envelope, there's no one KNOWN to protect.

Something is very fishy about this.

[In Truth We Trust]

17. Meanwhile 40 million Americans are STILL without healthcare!

and 30 million are without meaningful or ANY jobs! F**K Burkett, F**K CBS, and F**K the media!!! I want to hear about how the people are going to stop being subjected to funding corporate greed and wholesale deteriation of the "American Dream"

[Kimber Scott]

18. Why Burkett? Of all people to give the documents to. Doesn't make

sense. I don't believe him. But, that's me.

[grasswire]

22. sure it does...

...if you remember that Karl Rove fed information about w's drug use to James Hatfield, who authored the book Fortunate Son, was discredited, and eventually "suicided."

[Cheswick2.0]

33. It makes perfect sense

It discredits him and Rather in one swipe.

[aquart]

21. Oh, good lord! Could anyone be this foolish?????

"After he received the documents in Houston, Burkett said, he drove home, stopping on the way at a Kinko's shop in Waco to copy the six memos. In the parking lot outside, he said, he burned the ones he had been given and the envelope they were in. Ramirez was worried about leaving forensic evidence on them that might lead back to her, Burkett said, acknowledging that the story sounded fantastic. “This is going to sound like some damn sci-fi movie,” he said."

Did she give him a note with "Burn this" instructions?

I feel so sorry for the poor jerk. BushCo must have had it in for him a loooooooooooooooong time.

[grasswire]

24. remember Karl's screaming words

...about someone who criticized him: "We will ruin him! We f**k him like he's never been f**ked!"

The burning of the documents is horrible, awful. Horrible!

[aquart]

27. Karl and George are so sympatico.

Ratfuckers, both of them.

[Karenina]

28. He's on the record

saying he WITNESSED the scrubbing of *dimson's files.

[allemand]

29. Burkett even lied to CBS.

"In interviews in recent days with USA TODAY, both in person and on the phone, Burkett said he had merely been a conduit for the records purported to be from the private files of Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, one of Bush's former Guard commanders, who died in 1984. Burkett admitted lying to USA TODAY about the source of the documents but said he did not fabricate the papers.

In earlier conversations with USA TODAY, Burkett had identified the source of the documents as George Conn, a former Texas National Guard colleague who works for the U.S. Army in Europe. Burkett now says he made up the story about Conn's involvement to divert attention from himself and the woman he now says provided him with the documents. He told USA TODAY that he also lied to CBS."
http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20040921/1a_cover21x.art0.htm

I think he has lost all credibility.

[pschoeb]

37. There's a problem here for CBS though

If Burkett told them his source was George Conn, then CBS would have had to verify with Conn that indeed he was the source, have him tell them how he obtained them, off the record at least.

So did CBS get verification from Conn? if not, why not. I understand that since Conn is now working for the Army, he might have wanted his verification off the record, but I don't think they could have gone with the story without at least this kind of verification. Is it possible they did this verification, but since there was an agreement to not make it public, CBS can't say anything about it?

Also could Burkett have agreed that in his getting the docs to CBS Conn's name would not become public? Is he now making this whole song and dance to protect Conn? I mean why would you need to protect a source who just calls you up out of the blue, and this person you never met before gives you the docs? Since he is now giving the name, how is he protecting her?

Here's a Salon article from February, that shows that Conn seems to change his mind and not want to at least appear in public, to support Burkett's 1997 story, but only after he enters the Army, previously he had supported it.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/02/14/burkett/index_np.html

here's a google cash
http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:IYWJiNKpUGEJ:www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/02/14/burkett/+Burkett+george+conn&hl=en

Also there's no doubt if Conn was the supposed stated source, that CBS would have to somehow verify, because they would have known the problems with Conn and Burkett.

[in_cog_ni_to]

30. I wonder if THIS is the guy

who handed Burkett the documents?




Do we know how to reach Burkett? We know he lives in or near Abiline, TX....do we have an email address? Maybe CBS could follow up on this guy Stone....who just happens to be connected to KKKRove nad rumor has it in NY that STONE may be behind the meos...see other DU thread on the subject. :hi:

on edit...here's the other thread.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x849699

[John_H]

35. Didn't that guy resign from Dole because he and the mrs. were swingers?

http://www.buzzflash.com/analysis/03/09/15_recount.html

[Voltaire]

32. Check and see if she is the same person on the video tape thing in 2000

Remember when someone sent Gore a copy of Bush's debate tapes and all the news that created. I bet you will find the same woman at the bottom of both. Just a hunch.

[liveoaktx]

38. No-that was Yvette Lozano

http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/10/09/bush.tape.subpoena/

[Karmadillo]

34. Lucy Ramirez just called me to say Burkett is lying about all of this.

n/t