Poll: Should Kerry Campaign Take Ownership of the Bush-Nazi Story?

[seventhson]

Poll question: Poll: Should Kerry Campaign Take Ownership of the Bush-Nazi Story?

Okay - I will put this simply: The Kerry Campaign has been deleting my posts at the Kerry-Edwards forums about the Bush Nazi story.

They are obviously afraid of it.

I say their fear of this story demonstrates lack of leadership quality and I believe they ought to embrace the Bush-Nazi story.

If this story is true - and I believe it is - then they ought to OWN the story and TELL us it concerns them. That it is scary and that people need to vote for Kerry and Edwards in order to kick the Bushes into the river in November.

What do YOU think? What would YOU advise the campaign to do?

Read this first and then tell what Kerry and Edwards should do now that the story is in the INTERNATIONAL media.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1312540,00.html

[kcwayne]

1. There is no direct correlation to GW Bush

and as such the Repukes will turn any attempt to smear Dubya with a Nazi association which he never had as desparate. It would backfire bigtime.

Dubya is a douchebag, and he is fucking up bigtime in Iraq. This is what is relevant and what should be hammered on by Kerry.

We are heading towards a scenario where we will kill 2 million Arabs in Iraq before the Repukes finally determine that you simply cannot kill your way to a solution in this mess. This is the picture that Kerry should be making perfectly clear to everyone involved.

[Carolinian]

17. I'm in total agreement with you.

[seventhson]

31. Did you read the article? There IS a direct correlation to GWBush

He is covering up TREASON, the complicity of his family in the murder of MILLIONS AND he directly benefitted from and inherited the power and money derived from financing the Holocaust and the deaths of American GIs in WWII.

What more do you want to make this IMPORTANT in this election???

[NightOwwl]

46. The most IMPORTANT issue in THIS election...

Bush is a danger to America and the rest of the world.

Not because of his grandfather's actions years ago, but because of his actions today.

[chicagojoe]

53. It shows what kind of culture...

...and defective mind-set this treasonous piece of crap comes from.

[kcwayne]

57. Complicity

Dubya did not negotiate with with Nazis, his grandfather did. His grandfather committed treason in this matter, but Dubya didn't.

The fact that he benefitted from the crimes of his grandfather are odious, but his supporters don't care. His grandfather was elected to congress AFTER his Nazi dealings caused Congress to pass legislation to stop him. This is not being covered up, it is being willfully ignored by people who have no morality or ethics.

John F. Kennedy's father made a fortune bootlegging during prohibition, and made a fortune shorting the market in the 29 stock market crash. The former was illegal, and it is fairly probable that he made decisions to kill competitors as this was a mob business. The latter is not illegal, but was considered to be immoral in the face of the damage it did to the country, and people that did this were looked down upon. He used his connections and muscle to get John elected to the Senate, and ultimately president. He was also a Nazi sympathizer and his own presidential ambitions were thwarted by his love affair with the Nazis when he was an ambassador. JFK's association with his father is much closer than Dubya's connection to his grandfather, yet how many people begudge Kennedy for his father's Nazi, mob, and financial swindling?

The central issue is what Dubya has done and is doing, not what his grandfather did. The crimes of his family SHOULD cause people to be suspicious of him and not elect him to office, especially since he has never shown any redeeming qualities of public service. But he was elected in spite of his background, primarily because the press simply will not cover it. People are woefully ignorant of his family's hideousness so they don't hold it against him. Now that he is in power, the Nazi connection is irrelevant because it is not something he was personally involved in.

Dubya's supporters look at him the same way I look at JFK. JFK proved himself to be a war and social hero, and what his father did does not lower my esteem for JFK.

[NightOwwl]

48. kcwayne, I'd love to see this on a bumpersticker:

Dubya is a douchebag, and he is fucking up bigtime in Iraq.

:bounce:

[msongs]

2. are you some kinda troll with your biased commentary?

you say: They are obviously afraid of it.
you say: I say their fear of this story demonstrates..

You do NOT know what the kerry campaign thinks. Maybe you are projecting your own fears onto others, eh?

Your choice of things to vote for are certainly biased, like a republican push poll.........do you work for the republicans?

your choice offered is: Be afraid of it.

How about another choice like just ignore it, or let Karl Rove make up all the stories he wants.

By the way the Kerry blog and message board has been deleting comments about nazis etc for months and months, nothing new about this.

Msongs
Riverside CA

[Skip Intro]

12. No need to call someone a troll for asking a question

especially someone who has been here a couple of years, vs. a couple of weeks.

[seventhson]

25. Thanks for pointing that out nu_duer

I sometimes feel like I stepped into an alternative twilight zone reality and nobody knows me/

Kinda like "The Forgotten"

Except everyone forgot too that the Bushes and Hitlers were in big business together and we are the vicitms.

One word:

Santayana

[blondeatlast]

79. Oh, Seventhson, how could we EVER forget you--

at least those of us who knew you in the primaries?

[NightOwwl]

50. You make some good point msongs

but calling someone a troll is frowned upon whether you have 20 or 2000 posts.

:hi:

[blondeatlast]

78. You shoulda been here for the Primaries...

Let's put it this way--tinfoil suits the OP well for fall, as well.

And I honestly thought he'd redeemed himself.

[dave123williams]

3. Brown Brothers Harriman...

If you want a real eye-opener, you should dig in to the early corporate history of these fuckers. Here's a good start:

http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:UMlSPDm1MAsJ:www.bet.com/articles/1,,c1gb2216-2881,00.html+Brown+Brothers+Harriman+slaves&hl=en

[dave123williams]

4. Anyway, it's not his grandfather that's running for President...

[jackieforthedems]

45. But You Don't Understand

Bush Sr. and Condoleeza have both used "NWO" in many of their speeches - it is part of their agenda, some people just aren't catching on to it all. Dubya is just laying low about it, but he's the one who may succeed with the plan if he gets re-elected. Alot of people can see that, if they can get away with it, they will eventually have their One World Government. It's more than obvious.

[donco6]

5. Radioactive

Don't touch it.

[private_ryan]

6. how does that effect

us in 2004?????????????????????

[jackieforthedems]

47. All It Could Take

is a Red Alert for Martial Law to be enforced. You need to visit websites like: infowars.com, prisonplanet.com, abovetopsecret.com, http://www.prolognet.qc.ca/clyde/camp.htm, etc... Supposedly, there are military facilities being renovated in the U.S., UN military vehicles are in the U.S. at alot of these bases - coming in thru Port Beaumont, Texas, of all places, etc... People need to know about REX 84-FEMA and how it can be implicated and what can be confiscated from American citizens if Martial Law is ever enforced - very similar to what happened to the Jewish people during Hitler's agenda. I think 9-11 was a test, just like the Grid blacking out - the government wants to see if we'll follow their directions, etc... when there is an emergency because then they know that they have our full trust. People shouldn't be scared, just aware of what could happen.

[Julien Sorel]

7. ROFL

Okay - I will put this simply: The Kerry Campaign has been deleting my posts at the Kerry-Edwards forums about the Bush Nazi story.

Gee, I wonder why.

I should also point out that, should you tire of your role as message board gadfly, you would make an outstanding pollster, judging by your excellently worded options.

[blondeatlast]

80. But he was such FUN in the primaries... nt

[Lone_Wolf_Moderate]

8. Leave it alone.

I know that may seem cowardly, but there is still a lot of speculation on this, and any political benefit gained (if the story is true) would be dwarfed by the fallout. Frankly, we needn't go that far into the mud. This has no bearing on this election, and this is Bush's grandfather right? Kerry/Edwards should just let this die, and not go down that road.

[msongs]

9. last comment...

did you know that the bush family environmental record goes all the way back to moses? you know, the burning bush? Now there is something the campaign might want to ignore.

Msongs
Riverside CA

[Skip Intro]

10. No. Hell No.

No effin' way.


Kerry's doing the right thing by focusing on the present, the past - as far as how bush got us here, and the future.

This Nazi story is a sad attempt at a trap, and I'm glad the Kerry people are deleting your posts there on this subject. Thank God they're not going to touch it. There is nothing to gain, and much to lose by focusing on this.

[Freddie Stubbs]

11. Definitley a sign of desperation

If the Kerry campaign has to attack Bush over events which happened before he was born, there isn't much hope. Which explains their current course of action.

[Julien Sorel]

13. Wait a minute -- I think I know what the problem is.

You need to impress them with your credentials first. Show them the outstanding work you did in tracing the intricate connections between Bush and Kerry and Skull & Bones. That will show them your analytical gifts.

Then, impress them with the imaginative power of your intelligence by showing them the subtle, yet distinct to a brilliant mind like yours, trail that connected Wes Clark to the terrible epidemic of Haitian man breasts. After unveiling that discovery to the world, you bragged that you had singlehandedly ended Clark's campaign, as I recall. And so you had!


Finally if that's not enough (and how could it not be?), show them the finely hidden -- but not from your eyes! -- conspiracies that the "Bonesmen" had in place to make Kerry Gore's running mate, then assassinate Gore should he have won. That way, whether Bush or Gore won in 2000, a "Bonesman" would be guaranteed to be running the show. Personally, I think this conspiracy was the most insidious you uncovered, although this thing you have with Bush's grandfather and the Nazis might be its equal before you're done. And hey, who's to say the two aren't related? You are certainly aware of all the links between the Nazis and Skull & Bones. In fact, maybe that's why they delete your posts....

[seventhson]

27. Great Points! You could actually be right about some of them!

Links would be nice if you are going to mount an ad hominem attack on ME, though!

The chemicals used at Guantanamo were suspected of causing abnormal man breast growths in Haitian men prisoners around the time Clark was head of the Southern Command and commanded Fort Hood which had units at Guantanamo. That was alleged by a Haitian rights organization and I reported it here. I sure did. I di NOT like Clark for his use of depleted uranium and bombing of civilians in Kosovo and his ties to Jackson Stephens whom he worked for and who launched the attack ads on Dean during the primary (Club for Groqth)

I have vowed to stay away from the Kerry membership with Bush in Skull and so I will not respond on that -- but it still troubles me. Still - I am 100% behind Kerry in this election.

I think it is cowardly and ignorant for us to ignore the continuum of history. The Bushes basically used the Holocaust to catapult themselves into the most powerful positions on Earth in history, just as they had planned it with Hitler 70 years ago when they financed his rise.

Why doies it matter?

Because it is the same entities with the same racist gameplan for global fascist domination using money made off the deaths of American GIs and Jews and millions of others in WWII.

AND they covered it up and pocketed the profits and are using them today to fuck over the world.

Anyone who doesn't see this just gets my unbridled scorn.

[blondeatlast]

83. "Thanks... for the memories..." SNARF!

This is the third time today I've been reminded of the primaries!

Seriously, I think "their" tinfoil hats are far more attractive than "ours."

[LisaL]

14. What exactly Bush nazi story has to do with G.W. Bush?

G.W. Bush is not responsible for the sins of his ancestors. What would be the point of bringing it up? It's stupid. G.W.Bush did enough horrible things right here in the present, there is no point of bringing up his grandpa's bad deeds.

[dave123williams]

22. Agreed, but...

I think it points out that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

[seventhson]

28. Because he is covering up the crimes and keeping the Holocaust profits

Didn't you even READ the articles?

They covered up the TREASON of the grandfather and KEPT the Holocaust profits and STILL are ionvolved with the neoNazi fascist right.

How is that NOT f*ing relevent?

JEEZ!!!

[jackieforthedems]

49. The Agenda Of Hitler

could still be underway with a new leader ( Bush ), new victims ( not necessarily Jewish people ), a different war, a different time frame ( today ), etc... What Bush is doing now, there are many similarities to what went on during WW II and Hitler's regime. The ultimate goal is a One World Government - ever heard of New World Order?! Bush Sr. and Condi have mentioned it in their speeches.

[sr_pacifica]

15. You know the "sins of the father" thing

Can't hold someone responsible for what their pappy or grandpappy did. Man, would we ALL be in trouble! On Kerry's side there are not so nice connections on his mother's side and that could be dug up too if we're going to go that route.

[seventhson]

35. Actually this is the biblical doctrine of Karmic proportions: SINS WILL

be passed on unto the third and fourth generation according to the ten commandments.

Worshipping Mammon and filthy lucre and embracing unrighteousness (evil) definitely, according to the "sins of the father" teaching of Judeao-Christianity, will get your descendants damned, according to the Bible.

Yeah, we could all be in trouble.

But Bush has sins of his own. But the sins related to the nazis belong to him to as far as his profitting from the deaths in WWII and covering up the crime and KEEPING the profits.

Robert Lederman suggested that the Bushes give the 1.2 million dollars they made BACK to the people they stole it from by backing Hitler. Jews and GIS families and slave laborers have a valid claim and NOW, according to the article, they are making these claims and WE should support them. Especially where the sins of the fathers paid out big to the children and grandchildren who refuse to acknowledge the crime or show any remorse or contrition or willingness to give up their Nazi/Fascist idealogies and practices of racist hegemonay on a global scale.

[benburch]

16. Bush *is* a fascist. History is not required.

Now, nobody on this sad planet believes more than I do that Bush and his faction are fascists. And I know for verifiable truth that his family was closely associated with the German Nazi Party during and before WW-II.

However, that history, though illuminating, is not required to make the case the George W. Bush is by his attitudes and policies a very model of an Mousollini-type fascist

This is the case we must make. We don't to compare Bush to Hitler. Period. Comparing him to the buffoonish but dangerous Benito Mousollini is much more accurate, and does not pull into the debate issues like the Holocaust. What Il Duce did in Ethiopia is much more like what Bush is doing in Iraq, in any case...

[Journeyman]

18. Iraq. Social Security. Terrorism. Energy Policies. . . .

Environmental concerns. Patriot Act abuses. Kyoto. Nuclear proliferation. Unemployment. Outsourcing. The Economy. Water. Forests. Air. Future Supreme Court Justices. Education. Energy Independence. Port Security. Airport Security. The Nation's Infastructure: Roads, Dams, Locks, Rail Lines. . . .

Oh, damn. The list is almost endless before I reach the need to refight my father's war . . . or, as I suspect, your grandfather's war.

The hunt for Nazi criminals is ongoing and must not stop. The need to educate people about corporate crimes should be high priority at all levels. But right now, we've got a 21st century society we need to save. That has to be accomplished in this century, using the concerns and arguments of this century. Once we've restored some sanity to the world, maybe then we can look at the crimes behind the world's fortunes. But let's take care of the present first, then we can try to rectify the sins of the past.

[HEIL PRESIDENT GOD]

19. It is relevant, but not for the official campaign to touch

The "Kerry Campaign" should do nothing in regards to the story, but that doesn't mean WE should shut up about it.

This is not like "Well, I'm a third generation Polish immigrant and my grandfather was an anti-Semite." This is like, "I come from a family that has been brokering power for centuries, tried to stop the American Revolutionary War, tried to help the Nazis, and tried to foster eugenics programs even after WW2, and guess what? The guy who manages my campaigns is the grandson of the guy who built Birkenau."

So don't give me "no sins of the father"! There are plenty of people WITHOUT this level of Third Reich connections, including John Kerry, who could be President! Who cares if Shrub has nothing to do with it? Isn't there a slim chance, ESPECIALLY BASED ON HOW HE NOW BEHAVES POLITICALLY, that he does HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH IT?

Let's work at the grassroots level to hammer this into the public consciousness, but no, Kerry should not mention it.

[Bush was AWOL]

20. If Kerry tries to do anything with this, they will cry out desperation

and the media will destroy him. That's why the posts are being deleted. People will have to decide for themselves if this is important to them or not.

[Insomnicole]

21. K/E shouldn't touch this with a 10-foot pole.

Sorry -- I've been delighted that Kerry's come out swinging this week, but his associating himself with this story would do much more harm than good, for the reasons several others have already stated. Prescott Bush isn't running for President; there's plenty to beat the hell out of Dubya about without having to drag rumors about his grandfather into it.

[gordianot]

23. Important story however Kerry leave it alone

However, the relationship with the Saudi's is worth a discussion.

[DemFromMem]

24. Besides, it might not be true

Aside from agreeing that GW Bush is not responsible for his grandfather's acts (he's also a decendent of President Franklin Pierce - do you want to go back to the 1800s and pin the blame on Bush for every screwup in that guy's life :-) ), we shouldn't jump to conclusions based on one story in the Guardian.

Kitty Kelley covers this in her book and even she cautions that the condemnations of Prescott Bush regarding his dealings with his German client were not as sinister as some of the web sites have reported. And we know Kelley is not afraid to go out on limb in telling the truth about the family. Maybe there's new evidence, but even if so, I just don't see how this is relevant.

[seventhson]

32. Read the article. There is PLENTY of evidence that it is true

Kelley was a setup IMHO and whiteqwashed this issue. She lies when she negates this story.

[DemFromMem]

59. We're the ones being set up

I think there would be a backlash against Kerry if we made this an issue. I think even Jewish voters would perceive this as unfair - and I'm a Jew who lost dozens of relatives in the Holocaust. Are we next going to go after any politician who has slaveholding ancestors? Repeat this to yourself - Prescott Bush died 30 years ago and is not running for President. I'd be embarrassed for Kerry if he made anything of this. But I'm not worried. He's too smart to fall for that bait. Fine if the media wants to discuss it, but he would actually do himself a favor if he simply said that the story is irrelevant and not worthy of discussion in the context of the campaign.

[moondust]

26. "Where is your family's Nazi loot right now, Mr. Bush?"

"Are you using any of it to help fund your campaign?"

[seventhson]

30. Exactly!!! EXACTLY!!! And people want us to pretend it doesn't matter?

They want Kerry to be AFRAID of it?


If Kerry and Edwardas and his campaign are afraid to face this issue or to confront it on behalf of all WWII vets and Jews and "Gypsies" (Roma) and all those who died in the death camps to finance their rise to the most powerful positions on the planet - then I am afraid they do not really deserve my vote.

They will get it because I HAVE to vote against Bush.

But they will not really deserve it on their own merits because it is MORE an ABB vote in protest at the Nazis in the White House.

[seventhson]

29. These results are just PITIFUL, But pretty much what I expected

No wonder the left and the dems are considered spineless wimps by Michael Moore and the vast masses of independents and progressives.

I am pretty much at my wits end.

People are AFRAID to speak truth to power.

People are totally ignorant and CLUELESS as to the significance of this history.

Maybe it is simply that it is too complex for most people.

That the Bushes were and ARE Nazis and their is a direct historical political dynasty going from Hitler and the nazis to Dubya and Cheney and the PNAC.

The primary crime of this administration is CONTINUING the fascist Nazi methodologies and global misery and exploitation which they started 70 years ago.

What we are seeing today is the SAME Nazi plan, only now they call themselves PNACzis instead.

The Swastika has transmogrified into a "W" as their brand name and trademark.

WHITE "CHRISTIAN" (sic) ARYANS UNITE FOR BUSH (as they did for HITLER). THIS is what we are up against AND unless we can face it and speak truth to this fascist power then we will sink like millstones into the deadly quagmire of global Aryan supremacy and brutality and ruthlessness.

I cannot ignore this!

How in good conscious can anyone say Kerry should put his blinders on and ignore it like it never happened.

Simply revolting...

and too too sad because people , children, nursing mothers, newlyweds, pregnant women, grandparents, are dying hourly as we sit idly at our keyboards hiding from or ignoring or denying the reality.

PITIFUL, folks!

[burninhellzell]

33. I've been following this from the beginning

seventhson is right, this issue needs to be on every newspaper and TV news program in the country. I've sat back quietly in this forum but now its time to act before its too late, hence my first post on DU. Please, fellow Democrats, do NOT let Bush worm out of responsibility. We all know his family's rooted very deeply in Nazism, and to allow this to continue is unconscionable.

Come on people, time to retaliate!!!

[seventhson]

34. Thanks Burn!!! And WELCOME!!!

Proud to bring out your voice on this issue.

I tried like hell with Loftus and Robert Lederman and others (but not many)to get the Gore campaign and the media to cover this story.

Top peoiple in the DNC that I know were AFRAID to bring this to Gore. It was fine with them if others used it, but they did not even want Gore to KNOW about this stuff.

I think it is time for the fear to end and for us to confront the Bushes with this and educate the people about it at every turn.

[blondeatlast]

81. A creepy call to action and an ENORMOUS sig line!

Welcome to posting.

Eek.

[StopTheMorans]

40. "hey everyone, you're all idiots, i'm the only one who really

knows what's going on!". nothing like condescension; it's a great way to win people over :eyes:

[seventhson]

67. If people act like idiots it is not because they are ignorant of the facts

unless they just choose to ignore them.

If you were a Jew in nazi Germany and knew then what you know now, if people HUSHED you when you tried to warn them of the danger of Hitler and his minions would you not cosider them idiots>

I agree that reasdonable minds can disagree as to how Kerry handles the issue. But neglecting it or pretending it does not exist or making excuses for Bush and saying it does not matter is a DANGEROUS course of action in my opinion.

Mark my words - if Bush wins we will see things that will make Hitler's Germany look like Disneyland.

[jackieforthedems]

51. May I Also Add

NWO, the Bilderbergs, etc... are things alot of people know nothing about and/or have never heard of. Alot of people don't know about Mount Weather either. I'm just glad that we know and are aware. You can lead a horse to water, but can't make him drink. At least, we are trying to inform people - if they choose to ignore the info, we can't blame ourselves.

[seventhson]

36. On the Issue of the SINS OF THE FATHER and Bush

For the Record on this subject:



"And God spake all these words, saying... Thou shalt have no other gods before me... Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me" (Exodus 20:1-6).

"The LORD is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation" (Num. 14:18).


It is potentially payback time if God keeps His word in this instance.

[jackieforthedems]

37. It's News That's Not Exactly New

The fact that grandfather, Prescott Bush helped in the financing of Hitler's agenda has been news for a few years now on several websites, etc... I'm glad more people are becoming aware of it now - before the election. infowars.com and Henry Makow's site, abovetopsecret.com, Pam Shuffert, etc... all have been warning people for several years about the Bush family connections to Hitler and the Bin Ladens.

[seventhson]

38. There are still MILLIONS of voters who are UNAWARE of it, though

I feel it is our duty to educate as many people as possible about it and I think it is the campaigns responsibility to TALK about it - to express their concern and to NOT dismiss it as irrelevant.

I agree that smart folks who READ and spend time on the web know. But MILLIONS are still naive and do not understand the relevance.

THAT is why I beat this drum so hard and so often.

I think it matters immensely and explains a LOT about what is happening today.

I am a Holocaust researcher and I also teach Holocaust educators occasionally and I do not feel we can really understand HOW Hitler did what he did unless we understand HOW Americans like the Bushes backed him and his racist theories to the hilt and with all their filthy gold deriving IMMENSE profits from the death camps and the nazi regime and war machine.

It was a MASS MURDER machine and it was fueled by the Bushes for sheer profit and greed. AND it was utterly evil.

[jackieforthedems]

42. And As Much As I Hate To Admit It

if more people don't wake up in this country, I really think it could happen again, and to us - here's why: http://www.prolognet.qc.ca/clyde/camp.htm There are many U.S. military facilities being renovated and have the appearances of Concentration Camps, the color coded alert system ( how many people know that Red could trigger Martial Law? ), there are UN military vehicles coming into this country since 1999 thru, of all places, Port Beaumont, Texas, people have put photos on the internet of railroad box cars with shackles and guillatines in them, people have said they have seen crematoriums at some military facility in Colorado and in Hawaii, etc... Gosh, how can all these people be wrong? With the way things are going in our country right now, with job loss and down-sizing, etc..., we will be at the government's mercy before long. Perfect time to offer some help - well, we have these FEMA camps, like refugee camps, where we will take care of all of you. Yeah, right. I agree, word needs to get out. Maybe Michael Moore can help get more word out on this?! Propaganda Matrix.com has an article on their front page regarding the Bush-Hitler connection.

[genius]

39. Kerry needs his own Rove. Then he should ask Bush to answer charges.

[andino]

41. Play dumb and ask the reporters about what they mean...

Then you get the reporter giving the story as an explanation. Then say, "Wow, where did you get that? I've not heard of that." then fain interest and move on.... That way it gets out in the public and Kerry isn't the one that said ANYTHING about it..

[donheld]

43. Kerry has far too much to use already

if he will to bury Bush back in Crawford forever, without digging up that stuff
:bounce:

[NightOwwl]

44. Say what?

Now that Kerry has finally focused his attacks on Bush and his dangerous and incompetent handling of Afghanistan and Iraq...

sure...let's change the topic to Prescott Bush and his Nazi connection. Not to say this isn't an important story, but when it comes to this election, it is a non-issue.

[Andromeda]

52. Absolutely not!

Kerry doesn't need to get embroiled in a controversial scandel that could backfire on him so close to the election.

Bush defenders would immediately be on all the talk show 24/7 talking about how "evil" the Kerry campaign is and how the sins of the father and grandfather couldn't possibly be passed on to the son-of-a-Bush.

It would be a disaster.

[IndianaGreen]

54. Guess what? Joe Kennedy was as pro-Nazi as Prescott Bush

All the members of the American elites were sympathetic to Hitler, including publisher William Randolph Hearst, and American hero Charles Lindbergh. Pearl Harbor changed everything!

I am glad that the Kerry people are showing some common sense staying away from this loser of an non-issue.

[gordianot]

62. Elanor Roosevelt suspected JFK at one time

However after she met and talked with John Kennedy she realized her fears were not justified.

Knowing * family history looking at his crusade comments, suspension of the constitution, trumped up wars, voter fraud - election fraud, comments about homosexuals, intimidation of elderly black voters in Florida, torture of prisoners by American soldiers, treason and infiltration of the Pentagon, and government contract fraud what would be her conclusion about Bush? The fruit did not fall too far from the tree in this case.

[seventhson]

63. That is a total fabnrication by the right. Almost NOBODY was as proHitler

as the Bushes.

While it is true that many Americans and many wealthy Americans had investments in German businesses, this article clearly shows that the Bushes financed and managed the financing for the rise of the Nazis in HUGE sums of money. This is totally different than buying or owning stocks in businesses that did business with Hitler or people wanting to stay OUT of the war with Hitler.

The Kennesys did NOT support a eugenicist idealogy the way the Bushes did nor were THEIR assets seized for trading with the enemy as the Bushes companies were.

The argument that the Joe Kennedy was just as bad as the Bushes is a right wing disinformational meme.

It is untrue to equate the involvement of those who handled finances for and arranged funding for the Nazis with those who owned stock in companies like IBM, GM, or Ford who did business with Hitler prior to the war.

I am sorry you fell for it IG.

[IndianaGreen]

75. Joseph Kennedy and the Jews

I will also mention that Walt Disney was pro-Nazi, anti-labor, anti-communist, and anti-Semitic.

Many of the American elites were pro-Hitler as much as some members of the British Royal family. Even an anti-Fascist like FDR failed to take appropriate steps to save the Jews of Europe.

Joe Kennedy's pro-Nazi activities were a disgrace and were motivated by his anti-Semitism.

The sins of the father did not fall on his sons, two of which distinguished themselves with valor fighting the Axis Powers, Joe Jr. and Jack Kennedy.

Joseph Kennedy and the Jews
By Edward Renehan, Jr.
Mr. Renehan's most recent book is The Kennedys at War, 1937-1945, published in April 2002 by Doubleday.

Arriving at London in early 1938, newly-appointed U.S. Ambassador Joseph P. Kennedy took up quickly with another transplanted American. Viscountess Nancy Witcher Langhorne Astor assured Kennedy early in their friendship that he should not be put off by her pronounced and proud anti-Catholicism.

"I'm glad you are smart enough not to take my personally," she wrote. Astor pointed out that she had a number of Roman Catholic friends - G.K. Chesterton among them - with whom she shared, if nothing else, a profound hatred for the Jewish race. Joe Kennedy, in turn, had always detested Jews generally, although he claimed several as friends individually. Indeed, Kennedy seems to have tolerated the occasional Jew in the same way Astor tolerated the occasional Catholic.

As fiercely anti-Communist as they were anti-Semitic, Kennedy and Astor looked upon Adolf Hitler as a welcome solution to both of these "world problems" (Nancy's phrase). No member of the so-called "Cliveden Set" (the informal cabal of appeasers who met frequently at Nancy Astor's palatial home) seemed much concerned with the dilemma faced by Jews under the Reich. Astor wrote Kennedy that Hitler would have to do more than just "give a rough time" to "the killers of Christ" before she'd be in favor of launching "Armageddon to save them. The wheel of history swings round as the Lord would have it. Who are we to stand in the way of the future?" Kennedy replied that he expected the "Jew media" in the United States to become a problem, that "Jewish pundits in New York and Los Angeles" were already making noises contrived to "set a match to the fuse of the world."

During May of 1938, Kennedy engaged in extensive discussions with the new German Ambassador to the Court of St. James's, Herbert von Dirksen. In the midst of these conversations (held without approval from the U.S. State Department), Kennedy advised von Dirksen that President Roosevelt was the victim of "Jewish influence" and was poorly informed as to the philosophy, ambitions and ideals of Hitler's regime. (The Nazi ambassador subsequently told his bosses that Kennedy was "Germany's best friend" in London.)

http://hnn.us/articles/697.html

[baltodemvet]

55. NO

If the phrasing of the question weren't so loaded: a simple yes/no would have been preferable. I declined to choose either of the options you posed. I just don't think this is the issue we should stake the election on. We're gaining ground on the real issues why create a diversion about W's grandfather?

[Pepperbelly]

56. shouldn't visit the sins of the father (grandfather) on the (grand)son. nt

[HEIL PRESIDENT GOD]

69. Yeah...

UNLESS the son and grandson carry on a legacy of the SAME sins.

[SayitAintSo]

58. Kitty Kelly debunked it pretty much in her book ...

LOL... wouldn't it be great if the bushbots were forced to reference Kelly to defend themselves .... just like they reference Clinton's position on terror !

[seventhson]

65. at Rove's behest I am certain

her whole book reads like a Rove setup innoculation.

[robbedvoter]

60. Ahnuld declared his admiration for Hitler - got elected anyway

Sure, the media didn't air the story in California, but would they be less accomodating to W?
Kerry can only bring the most OBVIOIUS facts - that not even the media can lie about: war is lost, we are in deep shit. Even those are hard to drive through the media white noise. (Ex: Iraq is NOT part of war on terra?)

[gordianot]

61. Press needs to cover this and others.

This is a job for the press and others.

I wonder where is the Jewish Defense League and other Holocaust survivor groups are on this today?

The most dangerous of all Fascist are those who take on a mantle of respectability. They can choose anyone as their scapegoat.

This is not ancient history, I firmly believe never forget. I guess I listened to too many Holocaust survivors.

[jonnyblitz]

64. no. it was his GRANDFATHER, not him. this would be

seriously REACHING.

[seventhson]

66. He is part of the coverup and reaped the Holocaust profit

one pundit called the Bushes "Heirs to the Holocaust"

If he pocketed the profits from extermination camps and is covering up these crimes against humanity and hiding the crimes, then he is complicit in them.

Check out this article:

http://www.john-loftus.com/Thyssen.asp

[jackieforthedems]

68. PLEASE READ - This May Help You Understand

http://www.hermes-press.com/police_state.htm Read the entire front page - I know there's alot, but you need to read it in it's entirety to understand.

[seventhson]

73. Nauseating and utterly frightening. I agree we should ALL read this

As a Holocaust researcher and lecturer/teacher (I have prepared exhibits and lectures for educators which have traveled around the world, including to Jerusalem, the Hague, and the UN in NYC as well as the US Senate and worked with the History channel on a video exhibit and documentary on this subject) I am truly dusheartened by the lack of understanding on these issues.

THAT is why I am so strident.

I am a committed pacifist.

But I am also a comitted anti-fascist.

The means to change the world is though education and enklightenment of humanity.

Education of the masses.

But if even at a place like DU the sentiment is that this subject is "old news" and no longer relevant to contemporary politics, I am beginning to feel like the vast majority of us are like blind sheep being led to the slaughter.

The intelligence community knows about this history and yet now the Bush team has eviscerated our intelligence community and twisted it around to ONLY serve the Bushes' financial and political greed.

The whole intelligence apparatus is to keep the Bushes and the xcorrupt corporate interests in power and protected from responsibility or accountability for their crimes.

Now it gets worse and worse day by day.

I become AFRAI to speak for fear of Kerry losing and the mire closing over my head and the heads of all those I love.

It is happening folks. If we lose in November we will all suffer because in reality the Bushes ARE the Nazis and always have been.

THEY won WWII and we let them. America and the world lost the war with Hitler and his backers..

[The Chronicler]

70. It's not even relevant <nm>

[seventhson]

71. When history, and especially the history of fascists, becomes irrelevant

to Democrats, then I think our battle is lost and democracy is forever doomed.

I think the problem is that most folks just are totally unaware of the history and of the historical continuity.

There is a direct line of fascist power and totalitarian efforts by the Bushes from Prescott/Hitler to Bush I/Nixon to Bush II/Cheney.

Same fascist methodology, same ruthlessness, same idealogy of Aryan supremacy and genocide, same people with the same purpose in an intergenerational struggle for power.

Just like the Caesars and Emperors of Rome. Murder and war profiteering are the means to power.

Absolute and total global power is goal of the Bushes and Walkers and they have been for three or four generations (or more.

The only peoiple who could consider this irrelevant are people who are ignorant of this history.

[The Chronicler]

72. I've never believed the sins of the father should

be bestowed on everyone subsequently born within that family. Prescott Bush isn't running for president.

Arnold Schwarzenegger's father was a Nazi, and his son became the governor of CA.

[Bridget Burke]

74. So, you're trying to prove Karl Rove right?

You started a thread saying Karl Rove was blaming the reappearance of the whole Bush/Nazi story on the Kerry campaign.

www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=896461

Now you're saying Kerry should "own" this story. No. Kerry has enough to campaign on.

This tawdry episode in the Bush family saga is now new & I'm glad to explain it to anyone who needs to know--but that's just me. I'm only a member of the peanut gallery; some of us are not 100% above the fray.

[npincus]

76. don't like the "afraid of it" angle

I don't think it's fear at all- it's bad politics. Kerry/Edwards want to win. The story will come out without their ringing endorsement. Time is short, and it's foolish to get sidetracked on a peripheral issue. Yes, we all agree Bush is horrible, so let's do what we can to win this thing. Let's talk about Iraq, the economy, healthcare, and all the issues that afffect our daily lives.

So, for your poll, I would leave out the "afraid ot it" part and just leave the other sentence: "No".

[mitchum]

77. Yes. Because "the past is not dead. In fact, it's not even past"

[Hekate]

82. Americans do NOT like blaming people for their grandparents...

That kind of thing is frankly what a lot of people came to America to get away from. It's part of our national mythology that we live by: second sons of nobility (who couldn't inherit the estate) and bastards (stigmatized forever for something not their fault) alike came here to start over and become whatever they could become in their own right.

This piece of the national mythology is no joke. Do NOT make W's grandfather's behavior the issue AT ALL. Only the most rabid Bush-haters will be interested, and an awful lot of other people will be turned right off.

What WILL work is the piece about a "man making a name for himself" when applied to W:
#1: George W. Bush has coasted on his daddy's name and connections his entire life. (has the disadvantage of being very old news)
#2. George W. Bush's own behavior and his own connections are extremely suspect RIGHT NOW, not 30 years ago. (has the advantage of following Anne Richardson's advice, which is to ignore what Bush says and watch what he does)

Bush's very own life and record of behavior are entirely enough to get him voted out of office, unless he can mobilize those 4 million fundies and make them believe his second belly-button cancels out not only any evil he has done but any he is doing and will do.

Just don't mess with our mythology by dragging in his long-dead ancestor. That will backfire on us very badly.

Hekate

[seventhson]

84. It IS about Dubya and NOT only about Prescott

it is an intergenerational criminal enterprise.

I think the American people are smart enough to understand it if it is explained to them clearly.

Running away from it is coawrdly and stupid.

If Kerry is going to act like a leader he needs to speak the truth and not hide from it because he is afraid it will hurt him because Rove and some rightwingers will say it is dirty politics.

If Kerry simply OWNED the issue and faced it squarely and gave credence to it by quoting the story and addressing it as an issue which disturbs him - that it is a grave and burdensome consideration which should concern ALL Americans, then I think he could avoid a backlash.

Fear of the issue will seriously hurt him.

But just US knowing about it is NOT enough. Ther American people, the voters, need to know that the Bushes backed Hitler to the hilt and profitted from the slave labor camps and from the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of American GI's in WWII.

If we get that info to them then it MIGHT tip the balance in Kerry's favor.


But we have to directlyt address it for ALL to hear.

Right now it is the nazi elephant that Kerry is avoiding and it looks cowardly to ME.

[LisaL]

87. Bush had done enough in the present

for Kerry to bring up what Bush's grandfather did in the past.
I am sorry, but it would not make sense for Kerry to bring it up.

[AuntPatsy]

89. I agree that it is relevent but not for the Kerry campaign to use,

this is a problem and has been for quite some time, as you and many others know, this is not old news, you might not like the games some politicians must play, but play the must, we need Kerry to win, you wanting the Kerry people to investigate these allegations six weeks before the elections is nothing short of suicidal and I am sure you know it....

For someone who says he stands behind Kerry one hundred percent and who is obviously a very intelligent individual, I must question why you would want him to run with this theory when such would be nothing short of suicidal towards his chances of winning...

Run with the story if you will, you obviously have quite an extensive investigation going of your own, is it important to the people? Surely it should be, well you are the people, it is not up to Kerry to search this theory, it is up to you...

He has this election in the bag I have no doubt at this point in time, Bush's last four year records are proof of it, but four more years is not long until 2008 and you can bet they will be attempting another coupe, if you honestly believe and care about what you are saying, you have four years to prove this connection is stil relevant today and not just thirty years ago...

Leave the Kerry campaing out of it, they have enough to deal with and you know it...

[Roland99]

85. STFA

Stay
The
Fuck
Away

[NoPasaran]

86. To hell with this story

I'm sick of hearing about Vietnam. I'm even sicker about hearing who did what during the 1930s.

Our issues take place in the here and now. Let this election be about where we're going, not where we've been.

[Freddie Stubbs]

88. Should Bush's father being a war hero be an issue also?

:shrug: