TIME: Democrats Cowed During Debate Negotiations...But It's Not ALL Bad...

[Placebo]

When a race for President gets this close, no detail is too small to leave to chance. Which is how it happened that a man who once oversaw Middle East peacemaking found himself haggling last week with one of Washington's most storied power players over the matter of ... colored lights. The proposal: to allow the millions of Americans watching this Thursday's first presidential debate to see the warning signal whenever George Bush or John Kerry has exceeded his allotted time to answer a question. It was a transparent gambit by the President's representative, former Secretary of State James Baker, to raise the famously windy challenger's chances for embarrassment. "Undignified," sniffed a Kerry strategist. "It's like a game show."

But Kerry's negotiator, lawyer Vernon Jordan, gave in—just as he had to Baker's earlier demand that the lecterns be an unimposing 50 in. tall and that they be placed fully 10 ft. apart, making it less likely that the 5-ft. 11-in. Bush will look miniaturized in comparison with the 6-ft. 4-in. Kerry. After Jordan and Baker finally came to an agreement at New York City's Waldorf-Astoria Hotel, putting their heads together over a laptop to approve the official announcement, they headed for the bar.

But if Kerry is at his rhetorical best when he's feeling the heat, it's not the only thing the Bush camp has noticed about him. Even as Kerry was turning the tables on Weld over the death penalty, he kept wiping a dribble of perspiration that was creeping from his right temple to his eye. "He's a sweater," chortles a G.O.P. official, "and women don't like sweaters." That's why Bush's team was happy to have the Kerry campaign climb down from its demand that the debate hall be chilled to below 70 degrees. The Jordan-Baker agreement stipulates that the debate commission use "best efforts to maintain an appropriate temperature according to industry standards." Whatever those are.

There are some obvious traps for each candidate. Even as Bush's team was congratulating itself for rearranging the debate order to put foreign policy first, there were forces at work that might undercut that advantage. Kerry finally seems to be finding his voice on the Iraq war, just as the news from that country is being dominated anew by beheadings and car bombings. In TIME's poll, taken a week after Kerry launched his broadside that Bush was "living in a fantasy world of spin" about the real outlook in Iraq, only 37% of voters say Bush has been truthful in describing the situation there, whereas 55% say the situation is worse than the President says. And 51% echo Kerry's contention that the U.S. action in Iraq has made the world more dangerous, up from 46% in early September.

full article may be found here: http://www.time.com/time/election2004/article/0,18471,702075,00.html

[ProudToBeLiberal]

1. man where's the philosophy of give no quarter nt.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

2. I think they should be allowed to ask each other questions directly.

Kerry: "Mr. pResident, you LIED to the American people about the threat from Iraq and your actions lead to the death of over 1,000 American Soldiers who were sworn to protect this Nation, can you justify your actions?"

Bush: "Where's the bathroom?"

:)

[magnolia]

4. That's funny!

Chris Mathews said that Bush was offered a riser to stand on (so he can look at tall as Kerry while at the podium) but he declined. Too bad. He'd probably forget he was standing on it and fall off! What a delicious sight that would be!

[xray s]

3. "...they headed for the bar"

I am having one of those moments when I begin to think the joke's on us.

[DeepModem Mom]

6. I would be as likely to have a drink in a bar with Satan himself...

as James Baker, the Bush family consigliere, as Wes Clark has called him, and the public face of a stolen Presidential election.

[bushwakker]

9. Vernon probably got stuck with the tab too

way to Vern baby.

[formernaderite]

23. The joke is on us....

that's the biggest problem in DC...politics is not at all personal to them. It's a job. I quit working there about 15 years ago, and went blue collar. It is truly strange how many perceived arch enemies eat dinner together nightly.

[Cha]

5. They have bush's nose all

RED in that picture.

Where's that picture of bush that was on DU where he's sweating like the Stuck Pig that he is?

[Blue_Roses]

7. If Kerry's a sweater then Bush is a faucet

where is that picture of him with his shirt drenched just recently.

[gatorboy]

8. What a load of crap!

Here's the video of Bush:

http://www.canofun.com/blog/videos/OlbermannSweatybush.wmv

Looks like a sweater to me!

[KittyWampus]

10. Podiums 10' Apart? Have Kerry Walk Over At The End To Shake * Hand!

[mzmolly]

12. There ya go!

;)

[Democat]

11. Repulicans know how to negotiate - they start with wild demands

Then settle for everything they actually wanted.

Democrats start with realistic demands and they give in on many issues.

In the end, when a Democrat and a Republican negotiate, the Republican will usually win. That's why we need to replace so many people in our party with a smarter fighting fearless new generation of Democrats. No more getting our asses kicked!

[Placebo]

13. bingo

[Cha]

14. Amenski! to that!

That needs to be one of the MEMES!

[Julien Sorel]

15. Where in this piece does it say the Democrats were "cowed?"

Never mind. It isn't there. You simply saw the opportunity to reinforce the "Democrats are weaklings" line, and jumped on it with both feet.

Still, even at that, it would have been nice if you hadn't dishonestly implied Time was in on your little game.

That both men were in a celebratory mood might reflect the fact that each camp came away convinced it had snookered the other.

[Placebo]

17. I used 'Cowed'...

to subtly make fun of when W used it after 9/11 all "we will not be cowed"

NOT in an effort to make democrats look weak, and I have no 'little game'

[Julien Sorel]

22. Uh huh.

And that's why you quoted, and highlighted, the parts where it describes Jordan as "giving in." Just part of the whole making fun thing.

[John_H]

26. "Cowed" is not the appropriate word for what Jordan accomplished.

[moondust]

16. They should have asked Al Gore to negotiate this.

You do not allow your enemy to choose a battlefield to his liking.

There would not have been any drinks down at the bar afterwards either.

[IronLionZion]

18. Al Gore negotiated well for his debates

the temp was low and Bush was constantly drinking water like a nervous wreck. And Al just looks tougher than Bush.

[starroute]

19. I don't precisely trust Vernon Jordan

In the 90's, he was with Akin, Gump -- the law firm that represented Khalid bin Mahfouz when he got in trouble for BCCI, as well as other Saudis with ties to al-Qaeda.

http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=46145&Disp=16&Trace=on
(down at the bottom of the page)

He's been on the payroll of Barrick Gold.
http://www.sideshow.idps.co.uk/sjun03.htm#221546

And he was handed a seat on Clear Channel's board of directors when Tom Hicks was asserting his control there.
http://www.netfeed.com/~jhill/102p3.htm


Not only are those all questionable positions, but they're also highly BFEE-related -- not a good sign.

[Doosh]

20. kerry did sweat during his convention speech

but it wasn't so bad, barely noticeable really.

I hate it how we always give in during these negotiations

[Sputnik]

21. Bush needs to have sweated more

in his life. Perspiring cleans the toxins out of your body. Obviously, Bush hasn't sweated enough.

[K. F. Gibbons]

24. Democrats wisely caved this time to avoid a public pre-debated

debate that would lower expectations for Bush. The public goes into the debate thinking Bush is the master and that Kerry is the weak one, thus improving Kerry's chances of beating Bush by doing well. The Bush campaign did everything they could to bate the Kerry campaign. The Kerry campaign was brilliant by not arguing public ally about it.

[John_H]

25. LOL! I'll have to remember that one the next time I get my ass kicked

in a negotiation! Hey Team Kerry, sign K.F. up.

[calimary]

27. Watch bush wear lifts in his shoes.

To take care of the miniaturization issue, that is. Sneaky fakery, just like everything else about him.