Blackwell's own form is not on 80 lb. stock!

[citizen]

I have in my hands a copy of a 2004 Ohio Voter Registration form. It is actually a part of a "Vote" brochure with J. Kenneth Blackwell's name all over it.

The last 8 1/2 x 11 page of the brochure is an 8/2 X 11 sheet containing the Voter Registration Form on one side and Blackwell's Address at the Statehouse on the revers, so it can be folded in half and mailed in.

The entire brochure is printed on REGULAR PAPER STOCK. While, I am not a paper specialist I know that this is not on 80 Lb. Stock!

Please make a point of mentioning this to Mr. Blackwell if you are lucky enough to reach him!

http://www.civilthreat.com

P.S. I'll post some additional info and pictures of the Blackwell form later today.

[cthrumatrix]

1. WTF is going on up there.....? Where is any GD media covering this?

[trogdor]

7. Here ya go.

From DU's campaign underground local media blaster.

Let me know if the Columbus Dispatch prints your LTTE.

[e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], letters@dailyindependent, [e-mail],[e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail]

[still_one]

The most important thing is that we don't just complain about it

we get our lawyers out there quickly before it is too late

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kolesar]

3. Well done, citizen!

I have been phoning the Secretary of State's office: 614-466-3910. Your point would be a good one to raise. So far, I have only reached an answering machine. Press 3 to get to the "elections" department.

[LisaL]

6. Well, live messages then.

His e-mail apparently bounces back also.
:mad:

[BQueen]

100. Alternate e-mail

Blackwell was on the local news touting 'his' "Your Vote Counts" program (oh, the irony) - failed to mention that he did it under duress and too late to make a damned bit of difference. However, they did give a web address for it, and my e-mail apparently went through. (at least no failure of delivery notice yet)

[e-mail]

If you want a laugh - http://www.yourvotecountsohio.org/

My e-mail:

"To Whom It May Concern:
Since Mr. Blackwell has apparently blocked his e-mail so he does not have to deal with the consequences of his edict, I am sending this to this address.
I read the article in the Dayton Daily News where Mr. LoParo says that the Secretary of State's office will not be going around as the paper police, but nothing indicated that Mr. Blackwell is retracting his directive to the local Boards of Election that they discard applications that were not on 80 lb. weight paper. There can be no question that the type of paper is not a "material" "error or omission" under 42 U.S.C. 1971.
This directive is nothing other than yet another attempt to disenfranchise a population of voters that is primarily minority and Democratic. Not only is it blatantly partisan, the timing reeks of opportunism -- not that I'm surprised. I guess that New York Times article showing Democratic registrations up 250% has the powers-that-be worried.
Please advise Mr. Blackwell that every voter he disenfranchises this year will remember it, and will be much more likely to re-register simply in order to vote against him when he seeks any other state office. He can attempt to prove himself worthy of his vaunted position in this state, or he can bow to the hard-line GOP. It's his choice, but only the former one might allow him to avoid eternal residency with Katherine Harris in the seventh circle of the Inferno.
Most sincerely,
XXXXXXXX
an Independent (and livid) voter"

[enough]

4. Good find, citizen. (nt)

[demnan]

5. Thank you!

and welcome to DU, citizen :hi:

[henslee]

8. That two face pop up at your site is great but very annoying.

[madmom]

9. e-mail James Carville he says ....

he reads all his e-mail.

[e-mail]

[cthrumatrix]

10. thanks

[citizen]

11. Here's a link to some Pictures of the 'official' brochure.

http://www.civilthreat.com/ohioalert.htm

There's is also a follow-up article in today's Dayton Daily News. You can view it after signup at:

http://www.daytondailynews.com/localnews/content/localnews/daily/0928voting.html

[Skinner]

12. Great pictures.

I have added them to our homepage. You might want to let the Ohio Dem Party know about this. :thumbsup:

[Jokerman]

13. Another repub double standard.

Great find citizen & welcome to DU!

[citizen]

14. I spoke to the Ohio Democratic Party...

about this form. Dan Trevas, Communications Director for the Ohio Democratic party, took my call and was quite interested. He explained that the Ohio Democratic Party has filed suit against Blackwell and asked that I forward the sample form to him. It will be in the mail to him this afternoon.

I have also verified with a printer that the official form is not on 80 lb stock. The printer explained that 80 lb stock is essentially like a standard index card.

Please continue to contact Blackwell's office (614-466-2585) with your comments on this!

http://www.civilthreat.com

[mac56]

15. Citizen, you rock!

Keep us posted.

[spotbird]

16. Did they explain why they haven't done anything about this so far?

They have to have known, what's the deal?

[ohioan]

17. Fortunately, there's not much they need to do right now

So far, not a single county has agreed to do what Blackwell says - they're still accepting registrations on regular paper, so right now, there's nothing that the party can or should do, other than getting the word out about this, which they're doing.

[spotbird]

18. That is just not true!

Montgomery County has said that compliance will be a problem. Have them read the original article.

How does anyone know what's going on in Hamilton County, but anyone familiar with that area knows what's likely.

on edit: Who did you talk to? I'd like to call them myself.

[spotbird]

19. Ohioan, you've taken different positions in different threads.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=910073&mesg_id=911905

ohioan (8 posts) Tue Sep-28-04 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #29

30. You're right - a few hundred is likely too low - more like a few thousand at most.

I'm not downplaying this move by Blackwell, only trying to get everyone to keep it in perspective.

The provisional ballot issue is MUCH MUCH more serious and likely to result in far worse consequences than the registration paper issue. Even if the counties were to follow Blackwell's directive on the paper, they can still take steps to ensure that voters get registered in time. On the other hand, the provisional ballot directive, if not tossed out soon, will result in enormous confusion and problems on Election Day and cause tens of thousands of Ohio voters to be disenfranchised.

Which is it? Have all counties refused to comply or are thousands of registrations affected?

[ohioan]

23. I'm not being inconsistent at all.

My point is that, at most, a few thousand registrations have been submitted on non-card-stock paper. And no county has invalidated any of the registrations so far. But, even if the counties eventually decide to comply with Blackwell's directive, at most a few thousand - and likely far fewer than that since some of these "incorrectly" submitted registrations will be resubmitted on card stock in the meantime - will be wrongfully denied registration.

Of course, this is nothing to spit at, but, as I said, the much more egregious case involves the provisional voting.

The party is closely watching the registration issue, but, at this time, there's not really any action they can take other than to shine as much light on it as possible.

[citizen]

20. The communications director said

that the Ohio Democratic Party had filed suit and were looking for examples of where any county acted on Blackwell's directions. He seemed quite interested in getting the sample form that I have, and asked me to get it to him as soon as possible.

[spotbird]

21. Can't he just contact Montgomery County?

Since there is a published report of it happening there?

That is a really strange answer, can't those people read?

[ohioan]

24. Montgomery County hasn't yet taken any action

They are resending "valid" voter cards to newly registered voters who submitted their registrations on paper. But unless and until they actually invalidate the registrations of those who did not resubmit their registrations - which they have not done - there isn't any legal action that can be taken.

[spotbird]

26. At what point will it be known whether they will invalidate

the registrations forms on the wrong paper? Why is Montgomery County complaining about the issue?

It sounds to me like the voters are going to trust that these registrations are going to go through despite the order. How do you know that no county has complied? It certainly sounds like Montgomery County is acting in compliance.

What will happen in that example to those voters who have properly filled in applications on improper paper and have been sent regulation forms if those voters don't return the regulation forms in time.

What your saying is in contraction to the Daily News story. Is your point that that story is incorrect?

Most importantly, why was the edict issued at all? It has no policy use so it has to be it was to disenfranchise voters. These voters shouldn't be given the opportunity to reapply, the original applications are acceptable.

[ohioan]

29. I don't know if I can answer all your questions, but let's give it a try

At what point will it be known whether they will invalidate the registrations forms on the wrong paper?

Don't know.

How do you know that no county has complied? Because no county has yet invalidated any voter registration because of the paper it was submitted on.

It certainly sounds like Montgomery County is acting in compliance. Yes and no. They are attempting to give voters another chance to submit their registration on the "right" paper, but they have not actually done anything to invalidate the registrations of those who did not. Of course, that doesn't mean that they won't, but they haven't yet done it.

Also, Blackwell's office is now making noises suggesting that the failure to submit the registration on the right card will not invalidate a registration timely filed.

"Blackwell's office says the order is meant to prevent lightweight cards from being shredded by postal equipment. Blackwell says boards should accept all forms and register voters, then send voters the proper card - printed by the county board - to fill out for the permanent record.

"'We're not the paperweight police, we're not going to physically inspect every voter registration form at the boards of elections,'" Blackwell spokesman Carlo LoParo said." Miami Herald, September 28, 2004. http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/politics/9782245.htm

I have little doubt that this backpedaling is the result of the public outcry and if we keep up the pressure on Blackwell, the counties and the press, that Blackwell will stick with this approach and this particular issue will fade away.


What your saying is in contraction to the Daily News story. Is your point that that story is incorrect? No - I'm not contradicting the story.

Most importantly, why was the edict issued at all? It has no policy use so it has to be it was to disenfranchise voters. That's not quite true. The directive is not anything new - this is a long-standing rule. At one point, it made sense since the registration cards were the only permanent record of registration and signature and, thus, they needed to be preserved on sturdy stock. But in recent years, registration information has been preserved on computer and the cards are no longer as important as they once were.

So, Blackwell isn't creating a new rule, but stating that he intends to strictly enforce an existing rule. The problem is that, as you noted, there is no longer an acceptable rationale for this requirement and a number of exceptions have been made.

These voters shouldn't be given the opportunity to reapply, the original applications are acceptable. I think Montgomery County is doing its best to make sure as many voters as possible get registered and reducing the chances that voters will be disenfranchised if Blackwell doesn't back down.

[spotbird]

36. You are inconsistent

How do you know that no county has complied? Because no county has yet invalidated any voter registration because of the paper it was submitted on

Why did Dayton say they were doing exactly that in the Daily News?

Read your post. At one point you say the rule hasn't been enforced,later you say Montgomery County is doing the best they can in case Blackwell doesn't back down. If the rule isn't enforced, what does he have to back down from?

The truth is that the counties are sending out new applications where the original is on the wrong paper. The reason the Secretary is requiring this is that it is a way to limit the number of registrants, and for no other reason. There is certainly an issue for a court to decide.

[ohioan]

43. Montgomery County has NOT complied!

Compliance would mean they have invalidated the registration of anyone who has not submitted their registrations on card stock. They have not done that. They have simply sent them cards to fill out and send back. It is not clear whether they are doing this to ensure they have a permanent record or to help them avoid invalidation. But the fact that they sent out these cards does not equate to invalidation or disenfranchisement.

There is no issue for a court to decide at this point. That is why no suit has been filed. The lawyers working for the campaign are election law experts and know the law far better than any of us do. They know what they're doing. There is no legal basis for a lawsuit at this point. And there will probably be no need for one given that Blackwell is backing down and is likely to allow the registrations to go through, regardless of the paper they're sent in on.

[spotbird]

50. By sending new applications Montgomery County

is in at least partial compliance.

If you read the original article you'll find that in Dayton compliance is being attempted:

•One requires Ohio voter registration cards be printed on thick, 80-pound stock paper.

•The other ordered boards to strictly interpret the rules regarding provisional ballots, the ones cast by voters who move before the election but are still registered in Ohio.

The paper-stock issue is frustrating Montgomery County Board of Elections officials, who have a backlog of registrations to complete. If they get an Ohio voter registration card on paper thinner than required, they are mailing a new card out to the voter. But if they still have the backlog by the registration deadline, Oct. 4, voters will not have another chance to get their correct paperwork in, said Steve Harsman, deputy director of the Montgomery County board.

"There is just no reason to use 80-pound paper," Harsman said.

In Montgomery County there is a backlog of around 4,000 registrations, Harsman said. A few hundred could be affected by this provision, he said.

Now you can go to the language of the order to find its requirements, and it is just the same as the Dayton complaint. But you expect me to believe the Dayton boe just said they were going to act in compliance. I'm not sure why they'd lie to the paper, and I certainly don't believe they did.

II. VOTER REGISTRATION FORMS - PAPERWEIGHT

We have received numerous questions concerning the paperweight of the Ohio voter registration form. The form prescribed by the Secretary of State must be printed on white, uncoated paper of not less than 80 lb. text weight. Any Ohio form not printed on this minimum paperweight is considered to be an application for a registration form. Your board should mail the appropriate form to the person listed on the application.

However, this office cannot dictate the paperweight of the federally prescribed voter registrations forms: the on-line Federal Post Card Application (FPCA) and the "national" form prescribed by the Federal Elections Commission (FEC). Both of those forms may be printed on regular weight (e.g. 20 lb) white paper.

Now you say there is no county that is acting in accordance with this order, BASED ON WHAT? How do you know, because Blackwell says so?

[bigpathpaul]

25. Paper weights

This whole thing is obviously bogus, but please be careful. I'm a designer and work with paper stock all the time.

1. Generally speaking, there are two different types of paper: text weight (like a magazine, brochure, some letterhead, etc.) and cover weight (business cards, booklet covers, index cards, etc.).
2. There is a major difference between 80# text weight and 80# cover weight stock.

If needed, here are links to a few overviews of how paper is gauged:

http://desktoppub.about.com/library/glossary/bldef-basisweight.htm

http://desktoppub.about.com/od/paperspecs/

There are probably better sites, but I found these quickly.

Regardless of all this, the Ohio Repubs are way out of line!

[kodi]

65. tell him he needs to send in a protest riot squad to the columbus

the gop will rent one out cheap.




if you want to publicize what the gop is doing in this affair in ohio, do what was done during the recount in miami in 2000.

[gristy]

73. DAMN good suggestion

Ten Democrats. Multiple reporters and photographers. One office of SOS Blackwell. Will it happen?

[kodi]

81. the difference between dems & gop is that they would have done it now

and the dems sit in ohio sucking their teeth with their thumbs up their asses waiting for the gop to play nice.

within 24 hours the dems should have had a massive protest dmoonstration in the streets of columbus decying what had been done. it would have forced attention on the tricks the gop was playing even before votes were cast.


it's not like the gop opreratives have not engaged in like behavior before, in florida...and elsewhere

fool me once shame on you, fool.. me.. whatever.

[citizen]

22. The Official Complaint

Here's a link to the Official Complaint filed in U.S. District Court against J. Kenneth Blackwell.

http://civilthreat.com/complaint.pdf

To contact the Ohio Democratic Party, you can reach their Communications Director, Dan Trevas at [phone] or [e-mail].

http://www.civilthreat.com

[Supersedeas]

27. will the Federal Judge hold this partisan hack accountable?

[spotbird]

28. That complaint is about the provisional ballot issue.

Why the Democratic Party has not sought injunctive relief about the weight issue is a mystery. A rumor that most counties don't plan to comply with the order just shouldn't be enough to stop the party from acting. There is abundant evidence that Montgomery County is acting to comply, they said so in the paper for God's sake.

Why would the Democrats trust these people? Unless the order is voided compliance should be assumed.

[ohioan]

32. Because there's no basis for any legal action at this point

Unlike the directive on provisional voting, the paper weight issue does not violate any federal or state law. Plus, it does not threaten any disenfranchisement unless and until any county invalidates a registration as a result. On its face, Blackwell's order, which merely reiterates an existing rule, is perfectly valid. It only becomes a problem once it's enforced if the enforcement results in a violation of equal protection or illegal disenfranchisement. Until that happens, the case is not ripe for adjudication and would go absolutely no where.

It may sound like hair-splitting, but it's a big difference. If the Democrats took the paper weight issue to court right now, they'd be tossed out in a second, which would make things worse.

Besides, it looks like Blackwell is already backing down on this issue, probably because of the public pressure and resistance from the county boards. It's quite possible that all of these registrations will be accepted and the issue will go away. If not, and Blackwell takes any action to invalidate them, a lawsuit will probably be filed before the ink is dry.

There's more than one way to skin a cat.

[spotbird]

35. If there was no order in the first place, what is Blackwell

backing down from?

The order requires the counties to consider applications received on improper paper to be applications for registration forms. There is a story out now saying that in Cincinnati they had no problem with compliance, what does that mean?

Why was the original Dayton story directly descriptive of the order, if that isn't what they are (were) doing? They weren't registering people in Dayton if the paper was wrong, they were sending new applications. A pointless exercise if the application was otherwise perfect.

How would a challenge to this make things worse? You have no idea of the scope of the problem. Have you read the original order? What state law requires the heavy paper anyway? What is the rational basis for potentially disenfranchising anyone for no reason at all?

[ohioan]

46. . . .

Why was the original Dayton story directly descriptive of the order, if that isn't what they are (were) doing? They weren't registering people in Dayton if the paper was wrong, they were sending new applications. A pointless exercise if the application was otherwise perfect.

Not at all. The purpose of the card is a record-keeping matter, not a registration matter. Blackwell seems to now be taking the position that the registrations will be accepted but the county must still obtain and maintain a permanent record on card stock. However, this will not affect whether the registration is valid. That seems to be the approach that the counties are taking and that may be why Montgomery County is sending out the cards. There is nothing in the Dayton Daily News story indicating that Montgomery County plans to invalidate the registration of anyone whose registration was not on card stock.

How would a challenge to this make things worse? Because a challenge has no legal basis at this point and would be thrown out of court promptly - hardly a good public relations strategy for the party.

You have no idea of the scope of the problem. Yes, I do. I understand the problem quite well.

Have you read the original order? Yes. I have read both the state regulation and Blackwell's letter to the counties regarding it.

What state law requires the heavy paper anyway? It's not a state law, but a long-standing rule of the Secretary of State (it predated Blackwell). Ohio Revised Code, Sec. 3501.05(F) gives the Secretary of State the authority to "prescribe the form of registration cards, blanks, and records." Sec. 3503.13 provides that "registration forms shall consist of original and duplicate cards or loose-leaf pages as prescribed by the secretary of state." Pursuant to that authority, the Secretary of State has directed counties to use card stock.

As I said, however, this issue may go away because Blackwell's office is backing down and most Ohio counties are simply ignoring him.

[spotbird]

51. Blackwell's own language states that the light applications

should not be used for registration. You continually ignore that fact. If he didn't expect compliance, why issue the order? If you have indeed read Blackwell's dictate then how can you dismiss its contents?

Tell me, how you know to the certainty you express that there is no compliance when all the evidence points in exactly the other direction?

[spotbird]

54. Your assertion that Blackwell's authority to promulgate rules

pursuant to the code is absolute is nonsense.

What state law requires the heavy paper anyway? It's not a state law, but a long-standing rule of the Secretary of State (it predated Blackwell). Ohio Revised Code, Sec. 3501.05(F) gives the Secretary of State the authority to "prescribe the form of registration cards, blanks, and records." Sec. 3503.13 provides that "registration forms shall consist of original and duplicate cards or loose-leaf pages as prescribed by the secretary of state." Pursuant to that authority, the Secretary of State has directed counties to use card stock.

His authority to act must serve a legitimate purpose envisioned by the legislature when it passed that law. The secretary has no authority to promulgate rules with the sole purpose of limiting voter registration. Since reason for the rule is transparently to reduce the number of new voters a challenge would certainly have merit.

[ohioan]

60. Not nonsense. It's the law. And it has a legitimate purpose

The fact that this rule was created for record-keeping purposes and has been in effect for years makes it virtually impossible to prove that the purpose of the rule is to disenfranchise new voters. It has only recently become an issue because, in this election cycle, a number of registrations have been submitted on regular paper. I have no doubt that Blackwell hoped that, upon being reminded about the requirement, some counties would overreach and start invalidating new registrations. But that didn't happen.

The bottom line here is that the grass roots effort appears to be working. Serious pressure is being brought to bear on Blackwell and the county boards. They are not invalidating registrations and likely won't. Blackwell himself is backpedaling so fast he's a blur.

Yes, we need to keep the pressure on, but we also need to keep this in perspective and not lose sight of the more egregious violations that Blackwell is engaging in.

[LisaL]

61. What law?

Where is that law? What law is that? Do you know what law requires to use 80 lb paper for registration forms? If so, do tell us.
:eyes:
No other state apparently has such "law". What is the function of this so-called law?

[ohioan]

68. The law gives the Secretary of State the authority to prescribe the

forms that must be used for voter registration. Just about every state has a similar law that gives their top election official such authority. The Ohio Secretary of State, long before Blackwell came along, defined the permitted forms to be used. Most, if not all, states have similar requirements. The issue is not the regulation, but how the Secretary of State addresses failure to comply with it. If it's simply a record-keeping issue, the board of elections can still accept the registration but take steps to make it comply with the standard - either by transferring the information onto the correct form or having the voter submit a new one while "grandfathering" their original application in if it was submitted prior to the deadline. The problem comes in if the board invalidates the registration because it's on the wrong paper. That does not appear to be happening in Ohio.

[Timefortruth]

69. Why would the Secretary of State have the

authority to make laws that obstruct voter registration? It would make sense if there was a reason for the rule, but here the only reason for the rule is that it will cause people not to register a second time.

[ohioan]

72. He doesn't have the power to make laws

He has the authority to create rules to make administration easier. And he doesn't have the power to to anything to obstruct voter registration. And when his rules obstruct voter registration, they should be invalidated. But, so far, this rule has not obstructed voter registration. The counties are not rejecting any registrations pursuant to the Secretary of State's administrative rules. In fact, they are working to comply with the rule AND accepting all of the otherwise valid registrations.

[Timefortruth]

75. How do you know?

There aren't any stories that say what you are.

[ohioan]

77. Yes there are . . .See below

[Timefortruth]

94. What below?

There isn't anything but some idiotic article that doesn't follow.

Responsive answers are useful, this kind of stuff isn't helpful.

[ohioan]

95. This was quite responsive. It just doesn't say what you want it to say

It's obviously a waste of time to discuss this with you. You're convinced of your position, I'm convinced of mine.

We'll just have to see how it all shakes out.

[Timefortruth]

97. We don't have to wait, your side will win.

If this is about concession, I throw in the towel. You will win, there is absolutely no doubt about it. There are general answers that gloss over the specifics in this story. There isn't a soul anymore that sweats the details.

[ohioan]

99. Why do you think that not taking Blackwell to court and losing

is a concession? What do you think would be accomplished by filing suit against Blackwell that is immediately thrown out of court? Would one additional Democrat get to vote who otherwise wouldn't? Would Kerry be more likely to win Ohio?

What exactly do you think suing Blackwell over the registration issue would accomplish?

[Timefortruth]

101. Why do you think the counties aren't obeying the order?

When they've said they are?

How do you know that all of Ohio will ignore the letter? Why don't you answer that question?

That's how I know your view will win.

[ohioan]

102. I don't need to prove that they are ignoring the letter

In order to prevail in court, the ODP would have to prove that the counties have disenfranchised voters. The Kerry campaign, the DNC, the statewide coordinated campaign, the ODP, League of Women Voters, the County parties, and countless other groups have investigators, lawyers, and observers in every county of the state carefully watching every move the election board officials are making, interviewing voters, and working closely with county parties. So far, they have produced no evidence that a single otherwise eligible voter has been denied registration because it was on the wrong paper. Of course, that can change any day now. But, in the meantime, if you have some evidence to the contrary, I'm sure they would be more than grateful if you would forward it to them. But, until you do, you have to accept the fact that, at this point in time, there is abslutely no basis for a lawsuit, no matter how badly you're itching for one.

[Timefortruth]

71. Link?

Where is the story about Blackwell's backpeddeling?

Didn't Blackwell tell the counties not to consider the applications as registration forms?

[ohioan]

76. Link

Counties ignoring order for voter registration on heavy paper
Associated Press

{snip}
But elections board directors in Hamilton County in Cincinnati and Summit County in Akron say Blackwell's reminder has not caused any problems . . . Blackwell, a Republican, says boards should accept all forms and register voters, then send voters the proper card - printed by the county board - to fill out for the permanent record.

"We're not the paperweight police, we're not going to physically inspect every voter registration form at the boards of elections," Blackwell spokesman Carlo LoParo said.

{snip}

Some boards, which have long accepted voter registration cards on a variety of paper, are just ignoring Blackwell's order. If a form isn't on the proper card stock, they say, they simply tape or paste it to the official card for storage . . . In Trumbull County, elections board director Norma Williams said her budget wouldn't allow for the expense of mailing a second card to voters to fill out. "If we've got everything we need and the person is registered and we've attached it to our card, we're in good shape," said Williams, a Republican. "We felt the way we were doing it was perfectly fine and we weren't going to change."

{snip}

Summit County elections officials typically send the underweight cards back to voters along with the proper card and ask them to register again. But with the registration deadline approaching Oct. 4, the elections board is registering people regardless of the form, then asking people to submit a second form on the proper card, said director Bryan Williams, a Republican. "We believe that allows us to comply completely with the directive while at the same time not sacrificing anyone's right to vote because they didn't have access to 80-pound card stock," he said.

http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/news/politics/9783213.htm

[LisaL]

78. He is not back pedaling.

He is just saying he will not check of counties are going to do it or not.

[Timefortruth]

79. That's the way I see it also.

The headline has nothng to do with the story.

[ohioan]

83. I think Blackwell saying he won't enforce the directive

is quite a bit of backpedaling.

Whatever we decide to call it, it's good for us. The political pressure is working - this kind of crap can't survive the light of day. Keep it up.

[Timefortruth]

84. That's not what I think it says.

But it is so vague we may both be right, or wrong.

[ohioan]

87. Let's just agree to disagree

[LisaL]

62. Where does it state that the forms have to be

on 80 lb paper?
:eyes:
Blackwell said he is not going to enforce his "reminder" but obviously when it was send out he hoped counties would follow it and not register voters if there registrations are not on 80 lb paper.
Meanwhile, his own order states that 2 forms can be printed on a regular paper. So, what exactly is the purpose of this so-called law, if some forms for registrations can be printed on a regular paper and some forms can not?

[ohioan]

70. I agree that Blackwell intended that counties would not

register those voters. But they didn't bite.

How many times to I need to keep repeating this? The original purpose of the regulation was to provide uniformity, which made sense back in the days when the only possible record of the registration was the card. Obviously, that has changed in recent years. But the regulation itself did not have a discriminatory purpose and was racially neutral on its face.

Therefore, the only way to attack it is to prove that it has a discriminatory IMPACT as enforced today. But because it has not been enforced, despite Blackwell's pronouncement, it has not resulted in discrimination at this point. That is why there is no basis for a lawsuit. That could change, however. If any county invalidates a registration because of the card stock issue, there would likely be a case, not under Section 1971 of the Voting Rights Act, which cannot be privately enforced, but under other provisions. But until that happens, the best thing to do is to keep the pressure on to make sure that it DOESN'T happen.

Please be clear. I am NOT justifying Blackwell's actions. I think he is reprehensible and that he will do whatever he can to deliver Ohio to the Republicans. He must be watched and smacked down if he even LOOKS like he's getting out of line. But I don't think it helps to assume that the only way to do this is to file a lawsuit that has absolutely no merit. Each situation requires careful consideration. The right course of action on the provisional ballot issue IS a lawsuit. But that is the wrong thing to do at this time on this issue. We're doing the right thing. And it's working.

[Timefortruth]

86. You do say the same thing over and over, but the article you

link does not say there will be no enforcement. It says that the letter was a reminder, which it wasn't.

Why do you have the opinions you do?

[lanparty]

38. Voting rights act ....

I think this falls under the category of creating unnecessary hurdles to voting consistent with all the stuff they used to do to black folk. If they can't JUSTIFY the need for 80# card stock, AND if they have NEVER enforced such a measure, than there is an equal protection isssue.

Tens of thousands of Republicans have likely registered and been accepted on non-card stock. If those people vote in the election and the newer registrations on good ole copier paper are rejected, than there is an equal protection violation.

[ohioan]

47. This portion of the Voting Rights Act does not allow a private right of

action. Only the Attorney General can enforce it. And we all know how likely THAT will be.

And the Voting Rights Act doesn't prohibit discrimination based upon political affiliation, believe it or not. It prohibits discrimination on the basis of race. And the courts have repeatedly held that the fact that a policy tends to favor Republicans over Democrats, even though more blacks are Democrats, is not enough to trigger the provisions of the Voting Rights Act.

Also, according to news accounts, counties have been accepting paper registrations for years and don't seem likely to change now. Unless and until the counties reject registrations that are not on card stock, which isn't happening, there's no violation.

So, at this point, there is no basis for a lawsuit.

[lanparty]

55. The 14th amendment ...

Guarantees seemingly guarantees equal protection under the law from corporations to counting methodologies.

My argument stands. If ENFORCEMENT has not been consistent, and those who VOTE registered on plain old copier paper than their is an equal protection isssue here.

Someone else pointed out this bit of law in their JPG ...

"In accordance with Title 42 Chapter 20 Subchapter I Section 1971 of US Code, 'No person acting under color of law shall deny the right of any individual to vote in any election because of an error or omission of any record or paper relating to any application, registration, or other act requisite to voting, if such error or omission is not material in determining whether such individual is qualified under State law to vote in such election.'"

Basically, if the registrant fills out a paper in good faith, you can't disqualify them because someone else failed to cross the Ts and dot the Is. I believe that 80# paper vs photocopier paper falls under this category.

Yes perhaps the Attorney General has been scarred off. But too often people have been wooed by GOPers saying "Don't worry, everything will be fine". Than they show up on election day and they're told they can't vote.

Ohioan - with only a couple dozen posts under your belt, your a bit suspect for a Republican mole trying to ameliorate the DUers in not paying attention to a serious issue. Everything is all fine and dandy until the Repukelicans show up in court with all their arguments in hand (like Bush vs Gore) and the Democrats are still piecing theirs together.

So please let us beat the shit out of Uncle Tom-Ken Blackwell in peace. We are throwing ideas to one another in an attempt to reach a consensus. You seem to wish us to stop this. This is another tipoff to a freeper mole. "Nothing to see here, it will all be fine if you sit back and do nothing. Move along, move along, you're getting SLEEPY, SLEEEEEEPYYYYYY!!!!"

[ohioan]

57. You may wish this to be so, but that's not the law.

This provision of the Voting Rights Act CANNOT be enforced by private citizens. Plain and simple.

You can quote the Voting Rights Act all you want, but that will not make it apply to this case. First of all, the provision you cite does NOT allow individuals or organizations to sue anyone. It can only be enforced by the U.S. Attorney General, and it doesn't even require him to do it. Second, there has been no violation at this point since no voter has been disenfranchised as a result. In fact, it appears that Blackwell himself is backpedaling and is not claiming that his directive means that counties must keep a card stock record of the registration, but that it is not prohibited from accepting registrations on regular paper. Some counties are dealing with this simply by taping the paper registration to an index card.

As for you accusation that I am a Republican mole - don't even try it. Pointing out that the Ohio Democratic Party is not shirking its obligations because it is not running into court to bring a lawsuit that would get them laughed out of court is NOT a diversionary tactic. In fact, I am trying to get you guys to put this issue into perspective and to see that, while important, it is not nearly as important as the provisional ballot problem. It's ridiculous for you to do all of this second guessing about legal strategies when you don't understand the law. You're getting all worked up over something that the Ohio Dems have well in hand, and tearing them down by bitching about what you think they're not doing right.

It would be much more helpful for you to do just what I've suggested - to scream loud and hard about this issue and make sure that the voters, the press and Blackwell himself don't hear the end of it. But insisting that the Party should waste its time filing a lawsuit is not helpful.

[lanparty]

85. I didn't say you were a freeper ...

... I'm just pointing at that at 30-something posts, you're suspect.

[ohioan]

90. Yes, I just started posting, but I defy you to note ANYTHING I've

said that in any way indicates any support for the Republicans or opposition to the Democrats or any desire to undermine what the party is doing. In fact, I am DEFENDING the Ohio Party from suggestions that they're doing the wrong thing and am trying to explain to you why their course of action is the right one.

If that makes me "suspect," so be it. But I think it does us no good for laypersons with little or no legal training or experience in election or civil rights law to criticize how the party is approaching this issue.

[spotbird]

91. In this case defending the ODP is the same as defending

Blackwell.

You'll have to forgive the confusion.

[ohioan]

92. How do you figure that?

If you really believe that, there's no point in discussing this any further.

[trogdor]

41. So, if I put out a contract on someone...

...the police can't do anything to me until the contractee sleeps with the fishes. Is that what you're telling me?

[ohioan]

48. No. The act of putting out a contract is a crime in and of itself

But requiring that voter registration cards meet particular standards, as long as those standards are uniformly applied to all registrations, regardless of race, does not violate the Voting Rights Act.

[LisaL]

59. Well, how can the standard be uniformly applied to all registrations?

Blackwell's order itself lists two registration forms that can use regular paper. So, this "standard" does not uniformly applies to anything.

[ohioan]

66. It does. The different kinds of registration forms are race-neutral

Let me give you an example. There have been cases brought under this provision of the Voting Rights Act challenging a registration process in which white voters used one color form and black voters were given another. That was found to be in violation of the Voting Rights Act. However, in this instance, the regular paper forms are used for one purpose, completely unrelated to race, and the cards are used for another, again unrelated to race. This does not violate the Voting Rights Act.

Now, that doesn't mean that these different forms aren't relevant. The fact that paper forms are used in some instances helps demonstrate that the card requirement is antiquated and no longer necessary. This actually helps the local boards justify ignoring Blackwell's directive since they have some proof that the card stock is not a material requirement and, thus, the lack thereof is not sufficient to invalidate a registration.

[spotbird]

42. This might help.

Voting Rights

Section 1971


Sec. 1971. - Voting rights


(a) Race, color, or previous condition not to affect right to vote; uniform standards for voting qualifications; errors or omissions from papers; literacy tests; agreements between Attorney General and State or local authorities; definitions


(1)

All citizens of the United States who are otherwise qualified by law to vote at any election by the people in any State, Territory, district, county, city, parish, township, school district, municipality, or other territorial subdivision, shall be entitled and allowed to vote at all such elections, without distinction of race, color, or previous condition of servitude; any constitution, law, custom, usage, or regulation of any State or Territory, or by or under its authority, to the contrary notwithstanding.

(2)

No person acting under color of law shall -

(A)
in determining whether any individual is qualified under State law or laws to vote in any election, apply any standard, practice, or procedure different from the standards, practices, or procedures applied under such law or laws to other individuals within the same county, parish, or similar political subdivision who have been found by State officials to be qualified to vote;


(B) deny the right of any individual to vote in any election because of an error or omission on any record or paper relating to any application, registration, or other act requisite to voting, if such error or omission is not material in determining whether such individual is qualified under State law to vote in such election

[ohioan]

49. This Act does not permit individuals or organizations to sue the govt.

Only the Attorney General can enforce it and he is not required to do so. Neither the Ohio Democratic Party nor any other organization or individual can sue under it.

(c) Whenever any person has engaged or there are reasonable grounds to believe that any person is about to engage in any act or practice which would deprive any other person of any right or privilege secured by subsection (a) or (b), the Attorney General may institute for the United States, or in the name of the United States, a civil action or other proper proceeding for preventive relief, including an application for a permanent or temporary injunction, restraining order, or other order.

Look - I'm not trying to downplay how wrong Blackwell is - he's doing everything he can to disenfranchise Democrats in Ohio. I'm just trying to explain why the Ohio Democratic Party has not sued him over this - that 1) they have no legal basis for a suit at this time; 2) suing and getting thrown out of court would be politically damaging; and 3) there probably is no need to since the counties appear to be fully willing to accept the registrations and Blackwell himself is backing down.

Didn't mean to start a big argument.

[spotbird]

52. If there is standing to sue over the provisional ballot issue,

there is standing here.

Blackwell's dictate is sufficient.

[ohioan]

56. No - the provisional ballot case is being brough under HAVA,

which is an entirely different law. Blackwell's provisional ballot action violates HAVA. The registration card action does not.

But, I tell you what. Since you and the others who keep insisting that there is a cause of action believe so strongly that I am wrong and you are right, why not see if you can find any lawyer in Ohio who would agree to challenge Blackwell's voter registration card policy under the Voting Rights Act. And, if you can't (and I doubt you can) you can always find someone who has sent their registration in on regular paper and get them to agree to allow you to file a pro se action against Kenneth Blackwell on their behalf. Maybe that will make you feel better.

[spotbird]

58. Ohio is unique in that the Secretary of State has unlimited

authority to promulgate rules regardless of the statutory intent. No where else can an administrator adopt regulations which are in direct contradiction to the purpose of the statute granting the authority.

The legislature give him the authority to determine paper weight presumably to serve the public interest and promote voting. Who knew he could also use that power to limit registration?

It's a dictatorship in Ohio, you all have it rough.

The points you fail to respond to are as telling as the answers you give.

[ohioan]

63. The legislature gave the Secretary of State (not Blackwell, since

he wasn't even in office when the law was passed or when the paper weight rule was promulgated) this power in order to enable him to make record keeping more effecient. It is important to have some kind of uniformity and to be able to preserve the documentation. Requiring registrations be submitted on card stock (which is more durable than regular paper) was perfectly reasonable. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the regulations on their face.

The problem comes in if the regulations, designed to facilitate record keeping, are being used to disenfranchise voters. So far, that has not happened, although I am certain that Blackwell hoped that would be the result. But he didn't get away with it.

[LisaL]

64. What uniformity, for crying out loud?

His own order lists two forms that people in OH can use to register, printing them out on websites using regular paper. So, what uniformity are we talking about here?

[ohioan]

67. Go back and read my post

I was referring to the initial purpose of the regulation, which was to provide for uniformity, not an intent to discriminate based upon race. Now the uniformity argument no longer holds, as you pointed out. But this was one of the original, non-discriminatory reasons for the rule.

[Timefortruth]

80. But if the inital purpose is no longer valid, why

would these new rules be valid?

[ohioan]

82. This is NOT a NEW RULE!!!

The rules have not changed at all. Blackwell simply informed the counties that they should continue to comply with the existing rule.

They told him they would continue to make sure the registrations were, at some point, recorded on card stock. But, most of them have also made clear that they would not reject any registration not submitted on card stock - they'd just either tape the registration onto a card or ask the voter to send in another card (yet accept their original registration as valid).

Now, if Blackwell actually enforces this rule, which we all agree is antiquated, in such a way that it disenfranchises voters, we've got a cause of action. But right now, he's not enforcing it, the counties are letting it get in the way of registering voters and, so far, there's no evidence that any voter has been disenfrachised. Nevertheless, the state party is watching this closely, making sure that voters know what's going on and that they take all necessary steps to make sure they DON'T get disenfranchised under the radar. And a phalanx of lawyers if ready to pounce if there's a problem.

In other words, the Ohio Voter Protection effort is working exactly the way it's supposed to.

[Timefortruth]

88. OK enforcement is new.

And why enforce a rule that has no modern use?

Some of what you are saying isn't in any published report.

[ohioan]

89. You're right. If Blackwell enforces this, it will be new and it will be a

problem. But as long as he does not enforce it, there is no basis for a lawsuit. Plain and simple.

You seem to believe that I think what Blackwell is doing is ok. I don't. I just don't think that what he has done so far gives rise to a legal action. That's why I believe the Ohio Democratic Party is right not to file a lawsuit on this right now.

[Timefortruth]

93. Why do you think Blackwell isn't enforcing it?

I don't care whether you think Blackwell is ok.

The Ohio Party is just like Democrats everywhere, if they are told something they wait to be proved wrong.

[ohioan]

96. I think he backed off because it drew more attention than he expected

He tried to slip this in, figuring the county boards would just quietly knock out the registrations. But once the Dems started screaming and the AP started asking questions, it was hard for him to justify this action. And, given that this stunt, even if successful, was likely to disenfranchise "only" a thousand or so voters, he figured it wasn't worth it. He's likely got other ways to keep Democrats from voting that will be much more effective. For example, the provisional voting scheme can result in tens of thousands of Democrats being denied the vote on Election Day - many of whom would never appear on the radar screen. And you can bet he's going to fight for this one tooth and nail.

That's why we have to keep an eye on him and not get obsessed over this issue, which is really likely to go away.

As for your complaint about the ODP, do you have any actual experience with them or are you just generally pissed at Democrats?

[Timefortruth]

98. Your answer assumes that he has backed off.

My question is how do you know that he has backed off?

[Timefortruth]

74. How do you know it hasn't happened?

Has there been an audit?

[jimshoes]

30. From a quick glance

This is another matter regarding provisional ballots. The paper weight issue is something that has not been filed as a lawsuit yet I think.

[citizen]

33. SORRY _ THIS IS THE WRONG DOCUMENT

The Complaint that I linked to was incorrect. The linked document is a separate complaint filed against Blackwell over provisional ballots.

I will try to obntain the correct document.

[ohioan]

34. A complaint hasn't been filed in the registration card matter

[spotbird]

53. That complaint is on an unrelated issue.

It does not address the problem here.

[bigpathpaul]

31. Let me know if this will help

In an effort to help publicize this situation, I put together a letter-size page, covering what I hope are the salient points to this story.

The file below is a JPEG, but there is a PDF version at this address: http://bigpath.net/politics/Ohio/Blackwell.pdf.

This link is not available to the general public. I am ONLY posting it here.

1. I'm not from Ohiho. If there are issues here that should be added or subtracted, I will do that ASAP.
2. PLEASE DO NOT USE THIS PAGE UNTIL IT'S BEEN PROOF-READ AND FACT-CHECKED. if you use it at all.
3. You may contact me through DU or directly via email and I will attempt to respond ASAP.
4. I am trying to help. If you think this will not help the situation, I'll trash it!

[jimshoes]

37. I like it

I'll wait for more input before I print out a few and tack up around my area.

[lanparty]

39. Thats UNCLE TOM BLACKWELL!!!!

We have to use the proper names!!!!

[spotbird]

40. You are very talented.

See what the others have to say. I really like the investigation idea.

[citizen]

44. This looks great to me....

If you put a .pdf of it on the web, I'll link to it from my "Ohio Alert" page on civilthreat.com.

I can also make some copies for local distribution./

http://www.civilthreat.com

[bigpathpaul]

45. Can you get this to the people who have this running in other threads?

I think there are at least 3 threads running on this, but I've lost track of them all. Anyone here with kickin' power?

[struggle4progress]

103. I hope hundreds of citizens sue the Son of a Bitch! eom