I'm so sick of this "flip-flop" issue. It should have never been allowed

[Blue_Roses]

to go on this long. Flip-flopper---this sounds like something a 2nd grader would say and look who it's coming from--Bush--no wonder.

REAL men acknowledge when they make mistakes. REAL men know that WISDOM comes from making mistakes. REAL men aren't afraid to change directions when the outcome appears wrong. REAL men don't worry about their hobbies being "socially acceptable." REAL men are HUMBLE and don't lead by their stubbornness.

Kerry is a REAL man. Bush just acts like a spoiled child. BIG DIFFERENCE. I want a REAL man to lead this country--one who knows how to change directions when he sees he's made a mistake, not a pseudo man.

Kerry=REAL MAN
Bush= PSEUDO MAN

[bigpathpaul]

1. That about sums it up. Bravo. N/T

[Blue_Roses]

2. flyers, T-shirts, buttons, bumperstickers

anyone?

[bigpathpaul]

33. If you're asking for flyers, I can offer these

W.I.M.P.: "Which Is It, Mr. President?"

These print materials, which can be used as ads, posters, flyers, etc. were developed in response to a headline story: Bush Mocks Kerry: 'He Could Debate Himself'. While the concept of Bush flip-flopping may have been overdone, I tried to take a slightly different tone, mostly avoiding the phrase "flip-flop" but making each one a question of credibility: "When the President of the United States can’t decide where he stands on issues affecting our future, doesn’t he undermine the government’s credibility? Americans deserve straight answers from their President. In these challenging times, we need a leader with courage, compassion and credibility, with a clear plan for the future. We can’t afford four more years of indecision, deception and doubt.

There are 14 of these in all. All the source material is from The Center for American Progress Action Fund (http://www.americanprogressaction.org/site/pp.asp?c=klLWJcP7H&b=118263) which has done a great job of documenting GWB's change of heart/mind on nearly every issue imaginable. While I've highlighted 14 of their flip-flops, they have a list of at least 30:

I've shown reduced-size samples of a few. The full-size PDFs are available either through the home page at http://www.bigpath.net or you can go directly to the W.I.M.P. page at http://bigpath.net/politics/WIMP/WIMP_Start.html

[beaconess]

3. Hear, hear

They get away with it because they're so good with the spin - like dogs with a bone . . .

TODAY Show, September 28, 2004:

MATT LAUER: Karen, on certain issues, like steel tariffs and the 9/11 Commission and nation building, the president's view has evolved during the four years of his presidency. Does that make him a flip-flopper?

KAREN HUGHES: Well, Matt, I think--I can't believe what--what Senator Kerry just said, really. Do it the right away. What means is that he wouldn't have done it at all, because there were countries that were never going to agree with our decision to go into Iraq. And he has been all over the map on this war in Iraq. He--after voting for it, he voted against funding our troops. After saying it was the right decision to go into Iraq, he now says it's the wrong war. He calls it a profound diversion. You can only conclude from that, I would think, that if he were elected president, he would bring our troops home...

LAUER: But--but quickly...

Ms. HUGHES: ...immediately without--without going--working for victory. And we have to defeat the terrorists there.

LAUER: But quickly, what I'm saying is when a politician changes views on issues, like steel tariffs and the 9/11 Commission, does that mean they've evolved in those issues or that they're flip-floppers?

Ms. HUGHES: Well, the president--again, the president supported the 9/11 Commission. You want to look carefully at all options, like the Homeland Security Department. You want to look at making sure you're doing things the right way, in a productive way. The 9/11 Commission was very productive. The president wanted to make sure that it would be a productive look that would--that would not demoralize our intelligence workers on whom we're depending to guard us against further attacks. Yes, sometimes people in the--in the political realm change their mind. In the middle of a war, however, taking eight or nine or 10 positions and now saying it's the wrong war in the wrong place at the wrong time, after saying it was right and voting for it, I don't the American people understand that when we have young men and women in harm's way.

[drdigi420]

6. Hughes is a lying whore

Kerry NEVER voted FOR the war. He voted for the authority to use as leverage to force Hussein to accept inspections, which he did, at least up until the point that BUSH pulled them out.

[beaconess]

7. She certainly is - but she's a damned good one

I've never seen anyone as good at spin as she is. You'd think she actually believed the crap she spews.

Her latest spin, lowering expectations, is a classic. "Kerry has spent 20 years in the Senate where he debates all the time."

That's a great line. It's bull, but it's a good line. Anyone who has ever watched a Senate "debate" knows that it rarely involves any debating. It's actually a series of prepared speeches.

But Karen knows that most people don't know that and, since her special skill is playing to people's ignorance, it's likely to be a very effective line.

[noahmijo]

4. I hate it too but at our Young Dems table I can't resist but

hand out mass copies of a list which highlights about 50 or so Bush Flip Flops ;)

[ClassWarrior]

5. See below for how I'm fighting the meme.

I plan to wear my Dubya mask for Halloween with a floppy sandal around my neck that reads, "I'm just a flop."

23.

[Blue_Roses]

8. Keith Oberman said that Bush masks sells are way up this year

not sure if that's good or bad

[ClassWarrior]

9. I bought mine in 2000.

I was Dubya the Executioner that year, complete with a bloody axe and a "Don't Mess With Texas" pin.

Two years ago I was Dubya the Corporate Criminal, in an orange jumpsuit and handcuffs, with an ample supply of Enron "stock."

This year I'll just be a flop. (I thought Dubya the Abu Ghraib Prisoner might be a little tacky.)

23.

[Blue_Roses]

10. LOL!

n/t

[meow2u3]

22. Paint your Bush mask half black and half white

and wear a sign reading "Two-Faced"

[ClassWarrior]

28. I did think of that...

Hmmmmmm... it'll ruin the mask for future costumes if Bush* manages to steal it again... but then again, I'm all about keeping hope alive for Nov. 2...

I may just do that, Fed. Thanks for the prod.

23.

[Catherine Vincent]

29. I like that. Bush is just a FLOP.

Thanks.

[ClassWarrior]

31. Feel free to link to my graphic. It's on a free hosting site.

xxxx://img2.exs.cx/img2/2326/FLOP.gif

(where xxxx = http)

23.

[forgethell]

11. Allowwed?

How do you stop it. There's a free press in this country, even if we don't like what they are saying. Besides, even if there wasn't, the Republicans are currently in charge, here.

[Blue_Roses]

12. the PEOPLE are in charge here and if they would use their power of

VOICE and VOTE there wouldn't be any of this crap. I don't buy what your selling...it's the same old tired cop-out.

[ChocolateSaltyBalls]

14. The People?.........

When was the last time the 'People' were in charge?

It sure sounds pretty, but in practice it just doesn't happen.

[ClassWarrior]

17. Hmmmmm... which message boards are promoting THAT view of our...

...precious democracy??

23.

[Blue_Roses]

18. maybe you missed the huge Oprah votes party yesterday

not to mention Brock sending a CLEAR message about Frank Luntz, Blackwell backing down in Ohio--wake-up choc-co-lat and stop combing that hair! WE THE PEOPLE ARE IN CHARGE OF OUR OWN DESTINY!

It's just laziness that keeps us complacent.

[ChocolateSaltyBalls]

19. Yes, I missed it............

though no matter how much Oprah tells us we're in charge, reality dictates that it is not so.

[Blue_Roses]

23. ROFL...Oprah doesn't dictate reality nor does she try

she provides a soundboard. Your reality is gloom and doom. There's another board for that.

[ClassWarrior]

16. In addition to voting - hold the frickin media accountable...

...with calls, LTTEs, in-person visits, boycotts, etc. After all, everyone knows they're for-profit corporations - and WE'RE THEIR FREAKING CUSTOMERS!!!

23.

[Blue_Roses]

20. It's working--look at what happened with Frank Luntz and Blackwell

n/t

[ClassWarrior]

24. Hey, we're strong... we're invincible...

...WE ARE WOMAN!!! (Okay, well maybe not ME in particular, but you get the gist.) :7

I'd offer my apologies to Helen Reddy, but somehow I think she owes US an apology...

23.

[forgethell]

35. What the hell do you

think I'm selling? The people are in charge with their votes, yes, and their voice, yes. But only to decide who will lead them. Right now that is *&co.

Still, the Republicans also have a voice and a vote. Are you saying that there should be no free speech for conservatives and Republicans? Perhaps that's a valid stand, perhaps not. but at least have the honesty to say so right out. I will start the ball rolling for you. If conservatives free speech can be restrained, then watch out. Ours can be, too.

[kentuck]

13. No issue could help Kerry more than to address the flip-flop issue....

That issue is killing him. And I don't think he believes it is important. I hope he addresses it tonight in the debate.

[Julien Sorel]

15. The problem is, flip flopping isn't an issue.

Iraq is an issue. Terrorism is an issue. Healthcare is an issue. Employment is an issue. "Flip flop" is nonsense disguised as a "character flaw." Anyone who has been involved in politics for an extended period of time has taken positions that can be portrayed as "flip flopping," otherwise they would be brain dead.

[Grooner Five]

21. The flip flop thing didn't get its start with Bush, sadly enough.

It was handed to the GOP on a silver platter.

http://www.wcfcourier.com/articles/2003/12/25/news/breaking_news/7ed3357c5be848ed86256e070013feee.txt

Howard Dean supporters give John Kerry flip-flops as Christmas gift

DES MOINES -- Howard Dean supporters gave John Kerry a peculiar Christmas gift -- flip-flop sandals.

Iowans for Dean delivered the "present" to the Massachusetts senator's Iowa campaign headquarters on Wednesday. Both Dean and Kerry are among nine candidates seeking the Democratic presidential nomination.

"Sen. Kerry has been flip-flopping on issues throughout his career and campaign, and we thought we could make things a little more comfortable for him," said Dean spokeswoman Sarah Leonard.

Kerry has flip-flopped on issues including the war in Iraq, Social Security, intelligence resources and taxes, Leonard said in a news release.

A telephone message left for Kerry spokesman John Norris Wednesday night was not immediately returned.

[ClassWarrior]

25. The lesson to be learned?

Steal the best attacks of Guiliani's challengers in 2008, and nail him with 'em.

23.

[Grooner Five]

37. Agreed

We'd be fools not to watch closely, and use their best in-house attacks during the primaries against them in the general election. It provides for all sorts of free market research - the flip-flop thing must have resonated, and it caught their strategists' collective eye.

[vetwife]

26. Its a sad soundbyte but a thinking person knows a person with

real intelligence should change their position as circumstances change. I would end that rhetoric if possible by saying nothing stays the same and as different positions in life present themeselves, then positions taken earlier, must be re evaluated and thinking must be readjusted. If the American people don't get that and half don't then maybe they do need a Daddy but not Bush. Good example...You start out down a river and your intention is to go completely down the river and kill the snakes that are coming up the banks and killing the children and they are coming in droves and are filled with poision venum. So you have been told by the zookkeeper near the river. As you look side to side, you see no threat that is immediate. Then you see a waterfall that your boat is heading towards and there is a reverse on that boat. There is a steering wheel. But you stay the course. Doesn't matter that half of your crew has already died from other dangers other than the snakes, you stay the course and you go off the waterfall. That is insanity.

You may have voted to go down that river but once you got there you don't stay the course to certain doom. You don't pay the captain to pick up people on the side and take them down that same death trap. (87 Billion). What you belived to begin with and what proves to be untrue should always be re evaluated. ALWAYS ! A decision should never be hastily made and never but never should not be non negotiable. things are not always as they appear and anyone can be conned. So you have to change your mind about things that are misleading or wrong. Call me a flip flopper.

[Catherine Vincent]

32. Wow. And here I thought it was a repuke strategist that came up with that.

Thanks a lot, Howard Dean.

[Catherine Vincent]

27. What you said would be a perfect comment from a Dem cspan caller.

That would be the perfect retort for those repuke callers that always seem to mention flip flop in regards to Sen. Kerry.

[11 Bravo]

30. I hate to drop a turd in your punch bowl, but ...

It was Howard Dean and his supporters who initially hammered John Kerry about alleged "flip-flops". Rove's an ass hole, but he's not stupid. The ammo was there and he's using it against us.

[helpisontheway]

34. I don't think people would have paid

much attention to it if Kerry hadn't slipped and given them the I voted for the 87 million before I voted against it footage. Anyone with half a brain would know what he meant. HOWEVER, there are so many people that believe everything they hear in a political ad and do not go elsewhere to see if it is actually true. Even though I despise Rove and the rest of the Bush campaign they have outplayed us. They are very good at spinning their lies and half-truths.

[gasperc]

36. they should have simply copied it and applied it to Bush

forcing him to abandon it and come up with some other stupid sleazy attack.

However, since "we" were ahead through August some numskull advisors thought it was having no effect and ignored. But in keeping with traditional GOP methods they stick with something now matter how mush it is failing, ie war on Iraq. enough said

[ArkDem]

38. Very profound!