Questions Re: Trickle Down Economics and Palo Alto

[chknltl]

My freeper step kid lives in Palo Alto with his republican precinct commander mother, (of course) and is going to college there. We debate frequently about politics and what makes the economy tick.* Generally he is easy to beat up on in our debates but....

My question to him was "Name a single example where reagan's Trickle Down Economics, (TDE), worked. His response was "Palo Alto is the very story of TDE success! He claims that investors got more than a good return on their local high tech investments. He says that as those investors flourished, Palo Alto benefited from their re-investments into local labor and through their spending locally. He claims that Palo Alto is proof that TDE works.

I am not so familiar with economics. I know enough to say that our current crises in America is proof enough that TDE does not work, that in reality money which flows upward need not flow back downward, that money is at the discretion of the holder. Debating TDE with my step kid is difficult at best but I know NOTHING about Palo Alto's economic story.

The best I could come up with is that I know for a fact that his politically active repuke buds all have their Cayman Island accounts-money which NOT being invested into Palo Alto. I pointed out that if everyone did that with their extra money, then where was money for Palo Alto supposed to come from?


Anyone here able to assist me in refuting my step-kid's assertion? Is he full of nonsense like most repukes, is he using unrelated, non-germain factors to bolster his arguments?


*(other examples of my step kids' latest repuke influenced notions: "Slave labor is a necessary evil!"; "The economy of 1950s-'60s-'70s was an aberration in the failed experiment known as democracy and is non-repeatable!"; and this latest lovely notion: "President Obama is responsible for America's economic crises.")

[bemildred]

1. It's the wrong question.

It's not a matter of whether it could or did ever work, it's question of whether it an be expected to work, as a rule, better than the less feudal alternatives. If TDE was a reliable way to build economies, Latin America would rule the world.

[chknltl]

2. Thank you for responding...

and thanks for reminding me that TDE is a form of feudalism, I agree, feudalism is exactly what TDE supports. I am still somewhat stumped for a response to my step-kid that TDE made Palo Alto great. I am unable to demonstrate that this succuss is due less to TDE than to other factors. (Another-words I am stuck)

For instance, if he had asserted that Palo Alto was successful due to 'palm trees', I would be equally stuck-Palo Alto is indeed successful and it does have palm trees.... I know for a fact that those palm trees have nothing to do with Palo Alto's economic success but how do I argue against such nonsense? I don't know what properties of TDE, (if any), had anything to do, either positively or negatively with Palo Alto's current economic success.

I suspect I am looking at this all wrong-I just can't see where.... yet.

[bemildred]

3. Technical innovation made Palo Alto great, Stanford and UCB.

TDE was the policy of the government from Raygun to Bush the Younger. Why is the whole country in the toilet?

Is he really trying to assert that one of the most liberal areas of the "left coast" is a hotbed of conservatism? He's a tedious moron, why do you want to bother?

[chknltl]

4. That tedious moron is my step kid-

which is why I bother and yes he is a moron. Perhaps I am only slightly better off myself which is why I seek advice on refuting his assertion. It was my intentions to use data refuting his assertion, I guess maybe instead I should have just asked him for evidence that TDE and the Free Market is what is making Palo Alto so well off.

[bemildred]

5. That would be a good start.

My own experience is you can't tell kids much that they don't want to hear already. I know I was that way. It's not that I don't sympathize, but it's essentially a matter of dogma. I do think the argument I gave about it being on the "left coast" might slow him down for a minute. It is also true that Clinton's pro-technology policies, favoring investment over profit, that had a lot to do with it. It's worth remembering that Clinton left office with a big tax surplus, they raised the tax rates during his term.

[chknltl]

6. Thanks

I almost fear asking him to offer up examples of deregulation and tax breaks to the corporations of Silicon Valley. Knowing him, he'd find a few. I think I need to get some of my own ducks in a row before I chat with him next. I'll be using your examples and I need to research some supporting data as well. For instance, I need to find (if they exist) charts showing the correlation between the strength of the middle class and the strengths of our economy through our short history. It seems to me that the middle class is key to our debate. We progressives are seeking to strengthen the middle class while the TDE proponents could care less about a strong middle class-instead their goal is to strengthen the wealthy class. Didn't France fix this problem back in the late 18th century?? I may have to ask my step kid if he and his mother have any spare cake.

[bemildred]

7. Well, FWIW, my fave is the graph of the stock market against Presidential terms.

The national debt against Presidential terms is good too.

[proud patriot]

8. Ask him how TDE affected East Palo Alto

and why it's different .