Prison break at Fort Madison - consequence of budget cuts

[rurallib]

I am sure most of you have heard that two inmates escaped from the maximum security prison at Fort Madison Monday (or Tuesday I forget).
The reason I am posting this is that this is a real world consequence of budget cuts rammed through by th regressives. Due to these budget cuts the towers surrounding the prison are no longer fully staffed. That is there are periods of time when the towers, which are the final stop against breakouts, are not manned. Not too hard for prisoners to figure out.
At our county meeting last night, our local rep (Nate Reichert) was simply beside himself with frustration. As he said the money for the prisons was cut on a party line vote 51 - 49 in the House. So the wardens have to figure how to stretch less money. Hence, some towers are left unmanned.
This is but one very specific consequence of regressive 'budgeting'.
Nussle or VPlatts for guv? Then expect more of this.

[Lurch762]

1. I saw it differently

I think we're lucky that the idiots don't hammer over our "life in prison without parole", and "Life means Life" cliches. I'm in favor of executing this type of prisoner, and if we don't take a hit party wide over this, I'll be relieved. All the republicans have to say is "they wouldn't have been there if we had capital punishment" - and on this issue, they'd be right. Let's not talk about this in public too much.

[IA_Seth]

2. Are you freakin kidding me?

So instead of responsible budgeting and fiscal responsibility, you honestly think Iowans would rather support a "kill em all" policy so we don't have to pay for them?

There are more rational Iowans than not, thankfully.

[Lurch762]

4. These aren't shoplifters

These are both murderers. Killing people who kill people isn't "kill them all". Gov't is suppose to protect me and my family from people like these. As long as their heart still beats, it is capable of doing harm. I don't disagree with you on the budget cuts. If we are foolish enough to feed these two, we are obligated to feed the animals. I feel for wardens, superintendents, county department heads who have to perform with insufficient budgets.

[IA_Seth]

6. Point of Information here...

Maybe we should research how much money is really saved by capital punishment?

From what I recall - the amount of appeals, and the time spent "waiting" on death row, really negates the amount of money everyone assumes we would be saving by killing our prisoners. That is, unless you (or the right wing I mean) advocate a death penalty without due process, which I am sure you (or they) don't.

We can find a lot better places to attempt to save money than by reducing our security or our prison budgets.

[CornField]

5. Let them hammer away

We are not the ones being inconsistent here.

"Every life is precious... until that life screws up"

"Save the children... so we can use them as cannon fodder later on"

"We are a culture of life... unless you are ethnic and read the Koran or are an underpriviledged American without a stock portfolio"

I'm patiently waiting for the right-wing to bring this topic up. In the words of their illustrous leader, "Bring it on."

[Debi]

7. So, should we kill them right after they are sentenced? or right after

they are arrested? I mean let's forget the appeal process, let's just shoot 'em in the police station! What's a couple of dead guys as long as our taxes are lowered?

Think of how low our taxes could be if we got rid of the prison system all together? And the judicial system?!!

Then we wouldn't be worried about a guard tower left vacant because we can't afford to staff it, we wouldn't need guards!

[haroldgiowa]

3. Saved money?

Where is the savings? How much is this escape going to cost in the long run? The protection of the citizens need to take priority, not a back seat to pork.

I am sure that these two will not be a productive part of society. They will be a burden the remainder of their life on all of us. I have friends in government and when they talk about cutting any budget regarding security, I always ask at what price are you willing to pay? The first words out of any city budget is reduction in police and or fire departments. Again, at what price are we willing to pay?

There needs to be enough guards manning the prisons of this state to keep the prisoners inside.

[Debi]

8. One of the escapees has been captured

http://www.dmregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051117/NEWS01/51117003/1001&lead=1

[CornField]

9. A question about this

I was under the impression that folks who were in prison for violent crimes were typically housed in a prison in another state, or at least in a prison in an area unfamiliar to the prisoner (so, if the prisoner does escape, they won't be aware of the lay of the land).

Is that incorrect?

[Debi]

10. Here's a link to a Des Moines Register article about the prisoners

http://www.dmregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051116/NEWS01/511160343

One was from Nevada and the other had lived in Iowa long time ago, but was in a Tennessee prison when he was arrested for the crime committed in Iowa.

[rurallib]

14. Don't know for sure, but I believe they are held in the state

where the crime took place in the case of prosecution at the state level. If it's a federal crime, they would probably be placed in any of a variety of locations.

[Lurch762]

11. Shot after arrest?

Come on - thats the hyperbole that makes both side's fringe look bad. With DNA evidence or two eye witness accounts, I see no need for more than one appeal. Lets remember, they are the bad guys. I'll save my tears for the victims.

[Lurch762]

12. I forgot...

I'm not defending the hypocrisy of the right - I'll let them fail at that.

INNOCENT life is precious - destructive lives aren't.
Guys, these two didn't screw up, they KILLED someone. It wasn't an accident, or they wouldn't have been charged with 1st degree murder. People in the middle believe that we stand for the little guy. Its just what we do. But why do we stand for the guy that kills the little guy? This has never made any sense to me. And we lose votes for it.

[rurallib]

15. Can't remember the details but Gov. Ryan in Illinois commuted

all death sentences to life in prison before he left office, didn't he? The reason as I recall was that based on later DNA evidence there was a high number of innocent people who had been executed. Ryan was far from being a bleeding heart liberal, but he could see the system at that time was broken.

[Debi]

16. So, if we just act more like the republicans then we'd get more votes?

We do stand for the little guy, and sometimes that means the little guy who can't afford a lawyer - or who is wrongfully accused/convicted of a crime. Maybe not this time, but how many innocent people do you want to die by state funded execution so that we make sure that some of the guilty ones don't escape from a maximum security prison?

Has the violent crime rate dropped in the states that have the death penalty? That'd be good to know.

[IA_Seth]

13. But what about the money??

Do a little research, please. When it comes down to it, the idea that if we killed the killers we would be able to pay the guards is just nothing but nonesense. Here is a little that appears to be written by a college student....something for you to read:

http://www.nyu.edu/classes/jackson/social.issues/papers/CapPnGrB.html

An Uppercase Study on Capital Punishment

...

In 1993, a study done by the Terry Stanford Institute of Public Policy showed that in North Carolina “the extra costs of adjudicating murder cases capitally outweigh the savings in imprisonment costs. As it is currently implemented, the death penalty cannot be justified solely on the grounds of economy” (Cook 8). Their conclusions led them to believe the state spent upwards of 2 million dollars more on every execution than on cases of murder where the death penalty was not introduced (DPIC).

These numbers are not just a phenomena of North Carolina: Florida spends an extra 51 million a year by having the death penalty (DPIC), Texas spends an average of 2.3 million on every death penalty case (DPIC), and in Los Angeles the cost of a murder capital trial is 1,898,323; a non-capital murder trial is only 627,322 in a county where housing a prisoner for life cost only 630,000 dollars more than housing a death row inmate (DPFA). Also with respect to federal trials, the numbers do not get any smaller for capital cases (Subcommittee).

In May 1998, for the Judicial Conference of the United States, the Subcommittee on Federal Death Penalty Cases prepared a report concerning the cost of capital Federal trials. The purpose of the report was to provide recommendations on how to lower the costs of trials and still ensure good representation for the defendant. This report sheds light into why death penalty trials cost so much more than life without parole trials, and in turn, though their recommendations, do lower some costs. The report shows why it will always be so.

(continued....)

------------------------------

[Lurch762]

17. I don't dispute these numbers.

The key words are in the second sentence - "As it is currently implemented". I see no need for a second appeal. If there is damning DNA evidence, what could an appeal accomplish? I supported the IL governor commuting death sentences - until the system is fixed. I may come across to hard on this, but I want perpetrators to replace what they took. If there is no dispute that someone murdered another, they must give their life in return.

[amesdem]

18. Capital Punishment Democrats

Currently Iowa has a few candidates that are for the death penalty in limited cases. There is a rational reason for using capital punishment in cases involving terrorism, cop killing, and killing of little children. I think the death penalty currently used in the United States has its faults and some states (texas) abuse that power. Anyway just wanted to get some other democrats opinion on this issue?

[rurallib]

19. Welcome to DU, Amesdem!

Will you run against Latham?

[amesdem]

20. ???

Would if I met the qualifications....

[Debi]

21. Are you a resident of Iowa's 4th Congressional District?

:hi:

Welcome to DU, glad you found the Iowa Forum.