NJ DU'ers. Has anyone done a BBV analysis?

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

We all know that only one county(Warren) uses paper ballots. The rest are a mix of electronic technologies. What I want to know is if any of our intrepid NJ'ers have started to analyze the usual data points, including and especially any exit poll v. actual vote count discrepencies, any correlations between counties on vote shift and time they started taking place and anything else that doesn't pass the smell test.

We owe it to ourselves and every othe voter, in NJ and the US, to look at this information and see if there is anything in it that can go towards buttressing the case that is being built by many fine people.

Yes, we went blue, and that is good. But it cannot and should not stop there. Remember: Dodgy data generated in Nj can go far towards increasing the acceptibility of dodgy data in other places. If something unethical and illegal was done in NJ, know that it was done for just this purpose.

[tilsammans]

1. Here's a story about voting problems in NJ . . .

. . . not about BBV, but about being challenged.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=201x1721

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

2. Yesh, saw that...

last night. Gruesome. I sent off an email with link to someone at the NJDSC. That said, I am not holding my breath about them doing anything about it.

[Jerseygirltoo]

3. Actually we have old fashioned lever machines

Here in Monmouth county, some towns are still using the old machines where the lever closes the curtain, you push down the little levers to select candidates, and then open the curtain to register our vote.
I love these old machines. I know how they work, I have worked at the polls when the votes get counted at the end of the day,and I believe they are tamper proof.

[tilsammans]

4. We had those too, for years and years . . .

. . . before the touchscreens came to town.

I miss the old machines!

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

5. Where are the touchscreens deployed?

What counties? What companies make them?

[tilsammans]

6. I'm in Morris County

Not sure about the manufacturer of the touchscreen used here.

[Branjor]

7. I'm in Ocean County....

We had Sequoia touch screens.

[alvis]

13. I think Burlington County uses Sequoia machines as well.

[Jersey Devil]

8. Bergen Co uses a form of touch screen but not quite

Don't know the manufacturor. All the names are lined up on a plastic surface, not really a screen but a flat panel. A raised area of the surface appears next to each name. You push the raised area and a green "X" lights up next to the candidate's name. To record the votes you push a large red button at the bottom right "record vote", a beep is heard and the screen goes dark.

After voting is done for the day the machine prints out a receipt similar to a cash register receipt, hard drive is removed and delivered to the town clerk along with the receipt by the police.

We have had problems with these machines - one election locally we lost by 2 votes a few years back and found in some cases the number of voters who signed in to vote was less than the total number of voters who used the machines - some votes were not being counted at all. Also, several voters complained that when they pushed the large button there was no "beep" sound as is usual when a vote is recorded.

[Jersey Devil]

9. Bergen Co election officials are here

http://www.njelections.org/loc_officials_doe.html#berg

[AmyJCNJ]

12. JC, Hudson County

We used the machine you're talking about. It's called a DRE (Direct Recording Electronic) machine manufactured by Sequoia. Ours did not produce a paper ballot either.

You can check out the machines used in your polling location on this website:
http://www.mypollingplace.com/

I think we should push the state government to install paper printers on ALL voting machines. It wouldn't take that much longer to tear off the printed ticket, verify your vote and drop it in a locked box for verification in the event there is a problem. All these problems in OH and FL have really freaked me out. What if we get somebody like a Catherine Harris or Jeb Bush - we'd be screwed. The state already is very red in some areas. And with all the crooked politics in this state we should definitely have a fail proof system.

[Jersey Devil]

14. Our machines (Dumont, Bergen Co) are similar but not quite the same

They look somewhat like this one but are upright and only have a very slight tilt backwards when you enter the machine curtain.

They also date back to 1995

[MusicTVstar]

10. i think the whole country should use the lever machienes!

i live in monmouth county too, and i dont understand why no one uses the old lever machienes anymore either.

[Jersey Devil]

11. They were sold a bill of goods by the manuf like Hagel

The old machines with the levers sometimes needed a lot of repairs due to mechanical gears but they were accurate and there were no possibilities of overvote, undervote, no vote or extra votes. They were indeed the best. The only thing that could go wrong with them is they could get jammed and then the votes already recorded would be safe in that event.

[Starlight]

17. Actually, those old lever machines can be rigged, too.

Something about the levers being adjusted or replaced with a slightly different size lever...apparently it's possible but I'm not sure that there are any documented cases of it happening.

[madrigal]

15. Bush gained % in every county

I've been comparing 2000 vs 2004 election results and Bush has gained in % of the vote in every single county in NJ, usually by 6% or more, while Kerry stayed even or lost % of 2000 Dem votes/total vote.

I just don't understand - there were 238,881 more votes cast this time, and Bush gained 308,381 from last election, so that's saying he got all the new voters + nader/other votes from last time or dems switching over??? Kerry gained 15,113 votes from last time, so new voter turnout had almost no effect and/or he gained none of Nader's 2000 votes?????


So did Bush pick up all the new voters and Nader/other 2000 voters? Did the McGreevey thing really backlash that much against Kerry? New voter turnout seems to have not helped Kerry at all. Any thoughts here on where those votes came from?

Interestingly, the % of registered voters who actually voted stayed about the same.


These numbers are based in the "unofficial" votes from NJ state website (not counting absentee for 2004). I have a big ugly spreadsheet of the breakout by county if anyone wants to look at the numbers.

Number of votes cast:
Total 2004 votes: 3,426,107
Total 2000 votes: 3,187,226
Difference is + 238,881

2000 registered voters: 4,699,026
2000 votes cast: 3,187,226
% of 2000 registered voters who cast votes: 67.82%

2004 registered voters: 5,005,959
2004 votes cast (no absentee): 3,426,107
% of 2004 voters who cast votes: 68.44%


Bush 2004: 1,592,554 = 46.70% of total vote
Bush 2000: 1,284,173 = 39.07% of total vote
Difference is +308,381 = 7.63% gain

Kerry 2004: 1,803,963 = 52.65%
Gore 2000: 1,788,850 = 56.13%
Difference is +15,113 = 3.47% loss

I'm interested in what other people think or if anyone else is interested in crunching the numbers - maybe I'm doing something wrong here. I keep looking at the numbers, and maybe I'm just too tired.

Anyway, any thoughts?

[Jersey Devil]

16. "unaffiliated" is by far the largest voting block in NJ

and it has always been my impression that the unaffiliated group is more Republican than Democrat. Here's a list of NJ's voters by county with party affiliations:

http://www.state.nj.us/lps/elections/2004generalelectionbycounty.pdf

[Starlight]

18. Bev at BBV is studying this. n/t