Truly Frightening

[AngryOldDem]

I attend a church in South Suburban Dayton. On Sunday, I worked the early shift at a clothing drive a group was sponsoring and then went to the 9 a.m. service. When I got back to my car, someone had placed an anti-Kerry tract under the windshield wiper, obviously in response to the sticker I have on my back window.

For the rest of Sunday and all of Monday I went back and forth about reporting this to the church, but finally decided that I should let them know because of the political climate being what it is. So I shot off an e-mail to a friend who is on staff, letting her know that although this incident was minor, things could become much worse before Election Day and that they should probably keep a close eye on who is trolling their lots. I also politely yet forcefully made the point that I will continue to drive this car to church, and that I expect respect for both my beliefs and my personal property (IOW -- hands off my car).

This afternoon I got a reply from her. Apparently, someone called her and said that he is "out to get" any Kerry car he sees in the lot. Of course, he did not identify himself -- the coward that this kind of person typically is -- but, still, reading that gave me chills. As an upshot of both my note and this idiot, the church will be running a notice in the bulletin through Election Day that no political literature of any kind will be allowed to be distributed on church property, and that respect should be shown toward everyone's rights and beliefs. As nice as that sounds, it is very cold comfort to me right now. I feel like a sitting duck, because I am DEFINTELY in the political minority at this church.

I'm glad I spoke up, though, and that the church understands and respects my position. But still -- what a hell of a thing when you cannot support a mainstream candidate of your choice without feeling threatened.

To all my fellow DUers: In the words of Hill Street Blues' Sgt. Esterhaus: Let's be careful out there. I don't want to be paranoid, but man, right now I cannot help but feel like I'm a target.

[pbg]

1. Print out those emails

and save them as documentation. I'd also write a letter to local law enforcement and save a copy.
You might also contact the local Dem party offices. Perhaps a little counter-demonstration might be arranged.

[villager]

2. have someone watching the parking lot...

...maybe in shifts. If these thugs can't operate anonymously, they can't operate. Photograph them, name them, etc.

[salvorhardin]

3. I think a more satisfying solution

would be to drive around, following the other church members to the supermarket and stuff and while they're inside, slap a Kerry sticker on their cars. That way, everyone will eventually end up having a Kerry sticker on their car, including the idiot who made this threat. Then, just to f* with their minds more, do it all again with Bush and Nader stickers to completely confuse the issue. Finally, end it all up with a Planned Parenthood and darwin fish sticker.

That'd be my fantasy anyway. In real life, I understand your concerns. It's a scary world these days.

[mark11727]

4. If God wanted this sort of sh*t to continue...

...He wouldn't have given us night-vision goggles and baseball bats.

Been lurkin' all over DU today, and I'm ready to smack the crap out of a freeper (as always, in my over-active imagination).

[Kukesa]

6. Go for it!

Just let me know the thread so I can giggle after you smack that idiot.

I love when that happens.

And I've always been a pacifist -- what's happening?

[Kukesa]

5. This is NOT the only thing that's happening, AOD.

I just heard about a car in Dayton that now has slashed tires -- the car had lots of Kerry stickers proudly displayed.

During the Kerry/Edwards rally back in July, folks parked (for $5) behind General Surplus; when they returned all the Kerry-stickered vehicles had been towed to a lot on Wayne Avenue; the Bush cars in the lot remained there. When folks asked the owner of G.S. about it, he pleaded ignorance about the $5 parking fee; said he knew nothing about parking in his lot. This little episode cost each car owner about $70.

Oh yeah, the guy who owned the towing lot on Wayne Avenue insisted on cash; his office was full of Bush/Cheney stickers -- he was selling them.

This is terribly sad, and I hate to take this sitting down; it's making me angry.

What can we do???

:grr:

[Kolesar]

7. I don't think towing the cars was legal

I recall a conversation with my cousin who is an attorney from decades ago. IIRC, they did not have justification to tow the cars. You need to ask an attorney, though.

[Kukesa]

8. I agree.

But nothing was done about it at the time (even though I encouraged people to call the cops or something).

We have lots of Dem attorneys and judges, but we let it slide.

Dem HQ is aware of what happened, so we'll see if anything ever comes of it.

Ain't this just awful?

[mongo]

9. You really shouldn't let this slide.

Try to get as many people whoose cars were towed together and sue the bastard. Did anyone tell the local paper?

When stuff like this happens - fight back! I'm sure there will be more and more stories like this.

[mongo]

11. Or try this

Stand on the sidewalk outside of his store a few days a week with a sign that says something like

The owner of this store is a fascist who charges people to park their cars here and then illegally tows them.

If nothing else, you can take out an ad in the local paper and tell your side of the story. I had to do that when faced with a threat of a baseless zoning suit from the city.

[mongo]

10. This guy will most likely call again

Instruct everyone who answers the phone at the church to use *57

If you receive a nuisance, threatening, malicious or obscene phone call -- first, hang up for more than 2 seconds. Then pick up the phone, get a dial tone and dial the Call Trace Code (*57). A recorded announcement will inform you whether the last call to your phone was successfully traced (most calls can be traced).

Please note that, due to Federal Communications Commission rules about the Secrecy of Communications, we cannot give you the caller's phone number (except through legal processes while investigating a police case). When you contact us requesting that we provide information on the call you have traced, we can investigate and attempt to resolve any ongoing problem. However, please do not ask that we divulge the caller's number.

A better explanation will be in the front of your phone book. Then call your local police. The police can get the number he was calling from from the phone co. The cops do not like people threatening churches.

[AngryOldDem]

12. Thanks -- I Will Do That

I will most definitely pass this along to my friend who's on staff.

I have no doubt that something will happen between now and November. Anybody who is bound and determined won't be stopped by a bulletin announcement -- not if he thinks he's doing God's work. But the sticker is not coming off my car.

I was thinking tonight that whenever I try to describe the political climate in this country, as I see it, I sound insane. This type of stuff is not supposed to happen here, at least not to this degree of viciousness, anyway. I'm rather new to active political involvement, but I think what I've been hearing, reading, and seeing goes way beyond what most people have ever experienced.

Strange times, indeed.

[Philostopher]

13. Wish I was more surprised.

I'm beginning to wonder if the guy in my neighborhood who puts the Kerry signs in his yard doesn't have a screen-printing machine in his basement. You see, the signs keep disappearing. One time I'll drive by and there will be a sign; the next time, there's an empty wire frame and no sign. Call me paranoid, I suspect somebody's vandalizing his property, and that it's politically motivated. Okay, I know I'm really not paranoid.

It's sad to have to fear that, isn't it? And it's not everybody, around here -- it's just that the zealots are so damned ... well, zealous. Nobody's allowed to disagree with them, and disagreement is grounds for vandalism. Gives you a real high opinion of them as human beings, doesn't it?

[Kukesa]

14. Yard signs are being stolen, nownow.

I've sold several signs to folks who purchased signs through the Internet before we received our local supply. REPEAT purchases, because their original signs were stolen.

They're paying $5 for the signs and aren't ready to give up. (Bless 'em!) My suggestion to these folks is to take them inside at night.

What's a volunteer to do?

:shrug:

[Philostopher]

15. This guy's really on it.

He had made up a sign of his own, just looked like a piece of cardboard, that had a drawing of a boot on it and, in big block letters, 'GIVE BUSH THE BOOT IN NOVEMBER!' I think I'm more depressed about his disappearing signs than he is!

I'm always on the way to or from work when I go by, sometimes he's out there and I'm tempted to stop and tell him he's not alone ... but it's not a route I ordinarily take when I'm not going to work. One of these days, maybe I will, if I see him out there.

[AngryOldDem]

16. Check This Out

This is from the General Discussion: Campaign 2004 board. Look at the what this guy is being told to do to keep his signs from being ripped off. As much as I expect some election year tomfoolery, this is nothing more than threat-and-intimidation brownshirt tactics and we should NOT have to put up with this. Sorry, but I should not have to put a five-buck plastic or treated-cardboard sign into a vandal-proof case just so I can exercise MY right to openly support the candidate of MY choice. (This makes me angry, can you tell??)He should not put up with it, either.

The link (and I hope it takes you right to the thread):

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x635836

Definitely suggest to your neighbor that he report these thefts to the police every time they happen. Stealing campaign signs is a crime, the same as if his lawn mower or yard furniture would disappear overnight. It's also trespassing. Have him report it every time it happens, and urge others who have Kerry signs to do the same if it happens to them. If this is a Neighborhood Watch area, have him call the NW captain (call the police department and ask, if you don't know who it is) and the captain can request that the cops patrol the area more closely. (If there are enough complaints, they will do something, if nothing more than to get people off their backs.)

If this is what it's like now to be the "loyal opposition," what's it gonna be like if * gets another four years?????

:-(

[Kukesa]

17. Hear, Hear, AOD!

And I think your anger is well founded.

After reading the thread you suggested, I'm happy to know that DUers do not support stealing anyone's sign.

Why do WE have to be afraid of THEM? They're not afraid of us. I can't imagine slashing tires or breaking car windows or towing cars with Shrub stickers.

What's happening? Someone, please tell me!!

:eyes:

[mongo]

18. re:stolen yard signs, petty vandalism, etc.

I am really fed up of these stories and countless other accounts in GD.

It is time to FIGHT BACK!

When you put out your yard sign, tape a small piece of paper on it with THOU SHALT NOT STEAL! written on it.

If someone steals your yard sign, Make a flyer and put it on every telephone pole on your block that says something like:

To the individual Stealing my John Kerry for president sign.

It is very sad that you feel you have the right to vandalize my property just because I have a different political viewpoint than you do.

I PAY for these yard signs and display them because that is my right as an American. You on the other hand, do NOT have the right to trespass on my property to steal the sign.

In case you have never heard of the ten commandments, the eight commandment is THOU SHALT NOT STEAL! Besides it is against the law and you are a criminal

Sign it with your name and address. Chances are it is someone in your neighborhood and they will see it. So will your neighbors, some of who might know the person doing it and will give him a hard time. Someone might even stop by or leave an anonomous letter in your mailbox fingering the perp.

Don't forget to call the police every time some petty act is committed against you. It is just ONE out of control individual in your neighborhood, and chances are if he is doing it to you, he is doing it to your neighbors. Eventually, he will be caught, and 50 acts of petty theft are much worse than being caught stealing one $5.00 yard sign.

[daisygirl]

19. Flyering can have a big impact

I second both reporting every single incident to the police (you may feel silly, but it's their job) and flyering the neighborhood.

Mongo and I flyered our neighborhood a couple of years ago when the neighbor behind (across the alley from) us trapped our cat in one of those live animal traps. Now, there are probably a dozen cats in this neighborhood that roam free. Ours was one of them at the time - he'd go out during the day (coming home a few times to eat and use the litter box) and then come home when we called him at night.

This neighbor apparently got a bug up his ass about the cats and called the police, who said that if he could catch them he could bring them to the county shelter. So he set out this trap one morning and went out shopping. God knows how long poor Cat was in there, and it was over 80 degrees outside that day. The guy came to our house late that afternoon when he got back (he got our address from Cat's name tag) and went on this long tirade about cats coming into his yard and bothering his wife, who is allergic to cats. Said he'd take him to the shelter without telling us next time.

So anyway, we decided that the neighborhood needed to be notified. Like I said, there are a lot of outdoor cats around here, and most of them don't have an ID tag like Cat does. So we made a flyer explaining that someone at (whatever his address was) was trapping cats with the intention of taking them to the county shelter and to please check the shelter immediately if your cat goes missing, etc. We flyered every pole in on our street, the alley behind us, and the street the guy lived on.

The next day, that trap was gone. We were thinking he might've hidden it in his shed (there was a hole in the wall), but I've never heard of him trapping anyone else's cat.

We still don't let Cat out though for fear the guy might do something to him - it's been almost 2 years now and Cat is still depressed and always scratching and meowing at the doors. He's just never been happy as an indoor cat, even as a kitten when I kept him inside because I was afraid something would happen to him.

[AngryOldDem]

20. Another Idea

This may not fly, but it would be worth a shot. Call the media, especially the newspaper, and get the story out there that way (yes, yes, I know; the media won't help, but I'm still under the delusion that there is a free press).

My fear is that the closer we get to Election Day -- and if Kerry's numbers continue to rise -- the more violent some of these people will become. I can see broken car windows, house windows, spray-paint, mailbox vandalism -- if it can be imagined, I think it could happen.

Being passive on this, while it is "taking the high road," is NOT doing us any favors. We need to bring this "small stuff" to people's attention now so that they (especially the cops) are put on notice that there is some bad stuff going on and they need to be on top of it NOW.

I don't think we'd be blowing anything out of proportion here. I'd rather make a stink over a stolen sign today rather than wish I had said something as the brick (or worse) comes flying through my window tomorrow.

[mongo]

21. On that thought...

Call your local Dem party or Kerry rep when something happens too. The media might not write a story if one individual calls the paper, but if the local party president calls and says he has gotten 10 reports of signs being stolen, and provides the reporter with names of people to interview, I bet they would write a story on it.

I don't think we'd be blowing anything out of proportion here. I'd rather make a stink over a stolen sign today rather than wish I had said something as the brick (or worse) comes flying through my window tomorrow.

You are right on target here.

[AngryOldDem]

22. Agreed

<<<Call your local Dem party or Kerry rep when something happens too. The media might not write a story if one individual calls the paper, but if the local party president calls and says he has gotten 10 reports of signs being stolen, and provides the reporter with names of people to interview, I bet they would write a story on it.>>>

Great idea. The chairman of the county Democrats has a MUCH better chance of being heard than Joe Schmo with one missing yard sign. It also sends the message to the Dem's Repug counterpart -- tell your people to back off. I would take this a step further and also report it to state, in case some areas seem to be more prone to this than others. If so, it may give a clue as to who is behind it.

This is why I am still unnerved about the guy saying he is "out to get" Kerry cars in my church lot. What, exactly, does "out to get" mean? Is he going to rip off my sticker? Leave a graphic picture of an abortion on my windshield? Leave a nasty note damning me to hell? Or wait until I get to my car and then physically go after me? I don't know who or what I am dealing with here.

The word needs to get out about this ASAP. These are threats, not run-of-the-mill election year pranks.

[Kukesa]

25. I was at Dem HQ this evening,

to deliver more yard signs. Several people were in line to purchase them and I mentioned that signs are being stolen.

One woman spoke up and said if that happens to her, she'll take care of it -- she's an attorney and she'll let "people" know what's happening.

Not sure what that means . . .

The staffers at HQ are aware of the problem, too.

Stay tuned; this isn't the end of the issue.

[Philostopher]

23. Actually, the Dayton Daily News might cover something like that.

Especially if you sent an e-mail to Leigh Allan -- he does columns that aren't especially political most of the time, but he kind of does the 'neighborhood beat' for Kettering/Oakwood/south suburbs in the Local section and might pass along the information to somebody who would cover the story. He's not thrilled with Bush* and, while that isn't necessarily his beat, he's been around DDN long enough he'd know who should get it. Maybe, maybe not -- would be worth a try.

Don't bother with the Kettering-Oakwood Times, though, or any of the other Brown family papers. They're fReeper right-wing, the guy who's the publisher of the KO-T ran against Mike Turner and called him 'too liberal.'

[AngryOldDem]

24. Oh, Gawd....the Memories

<<<<They're fReeper right-wing, the guy who's the publisher of the KO-T ran against Mike Turner and called him 'too liberal.'>>>>


Roy Brown. I remember he was about the biggest boob I'd ever seen (locally, that is). The Turner-Brown race will go down as one of the biggest primary mismatches in 3rd District history.

Allan could possibly put an interesting spin on the sign story, but I think I'd rather see it played straight.