Did everyone get the email sent out by the TDP? More rules clarification

[crispini]

If not, here are links to the PDFs they sent out. Well worth a read.

FAQs

Handling of provisional voters:
http://www.txdemocrats.org/page/-/2008%20Convention/Precinct%20Convention%20materials/Handling%20of%20Provisional%20Participation%20at%20Precinct%20Conventions.pdf

[GOPisEvil]

1. Dear (insert diety here), please let there be NO provisionals in my precinct.

The last thing I want to do is have TWO caucuses. x(

[crispini]

2. Wordy word word word.

Ugh.

[sonias]

3. Thanks crispini

I think those were pretty clear.

The real problem with provisional ballots is at the polls where in Texas 3/4 of them get rejected. That's where we need to clean up our act in Texas. The number one reason people are forced to cast a provisional ballot at the polls is because they showed up at the wrong precinct on election day. If the person had early voted they would have been a regular ballot - period.

Sonia

[crispini]

4. for those who have read this, a question

What if the voter voted provisionally and wants to participate in the convention? Does that automatically make them a provisional participant in the convention? That's not actually one of the criteria on the FAQ sheet.

[sonias]

5. That's in there crispini

Your second link - it says that provisional voters are marked in with a "P" for your caucus. They are not counted as part of the sign ins to determine presidential preference initially. And then you have to do a second viability test including them. You could essentially be running two caucuses if provisional voters show up to your convention. One that assumes their votes in the primary count and they are full voting caucus members, and one that assumes their vote will not be counted and does not include any of their activity.

So you basically have double the paperwork, but that's how you have to do it. Essentially you are segregating their votes in case their provisional ballot in the primary does not get counted. Because if they didn't have their vote count in the primary, then they can't have their vote count in the caucus either.

I'm with GOPisEvil on this one, let's hope their aren't any provisional voters who show up to your caucus because it's going to get "crazy".


Sonia

[WolverineDG]

6. It's going to be a race to the election judge

Hillary is now telling her folks to be at the precinct caucus site no later than 6:30. I got both a robocall AND a flyer to that effect today.

dg

[NoPasaran]

7. I don't care if people start showing up at noon

My convention doesn't start until I call it to order and that isn't happening until 7:15 or the last voter votes.

I really wish everyone would just take a deep breath and get a grip. This is a caucus, not a freaking jihad.

[WolverineDG]

8. I am glad that you are doing this

but the locals here are doing what they can to bend the rules. I've seen them in action in the past & I don't trust them one bit.

dg

[crispini]

9. Wordy word word word.

People are nervous.

[muse]

21. But, if provisional votes were ever counted . . .

Not all of them would end up being legit votes.

So, having a second caucus that assumes all the provisionals count, just seems silly to me.

[thevoiceofreason]

22. The biggest problem with this

Is that it is often moot. If you have 4 provisionals, what's up when 2 get approved and 2 get tossed? That's right. The failsafe ideas of the state party fail. In Harris County, we have been told to conduct one caucus, including everyone. If people get tossed down the line, they get tossed and scratched off. Delegate reapportionment will then occur if necessary.

[WolverineDG]

10. What about decimal points

Do we only look at the first one? I can envision a situation in my precinct where someone kicks up a ruckus over the number in the 2nd or 3rd spot (for rounding purposes).

dg

[crispini]

11. When you're determining viability, you always round up.

Even if it.s 3.1, you round up to 4.

When you're determining delegation strength, and allocating the "leftovers," you look at the bigger one. Hopefully you're not going to get 26.121215 and 26.121216. But if you did, yeah, I guess you have to look at which one is bigger. :D

[WolverineDG]

12. but to how many decimal points?

I can see that in a tie like you just gave, keep going until you hit a higher number. But what if it's not a tie? Is there something in the rules that says you keep going until you hit a higher number regardless the number of decimal places?

I hate math. :cry: :banghead: :cry:

dg

[NoPasaran]

13. How many decimal points does your calculator read out to?

I think that would be a reasonable ruling from the Chair.

Honestly, I don't think it should be an issue. I think you'd need to have really large humbers of people---tens of thousands---before you'd need to go out five or six decimal places.

[susanr516]

14. In case of a tie

in assigning the "leftover" delegate (and associated alternate,) the rules state you have 2 options:

1. Assign the delegate/alternate by coin toss or other chance method.

2. Designate the leftover delegate/alternate positions as "at-large" to the county/SD convention, with the entire precinct convention voting to elect them.

I have never seen a situation like this occur at the precinct level, but never say never.

[susanr516]

15. How do you determine a provisional voter

On the night of the election? In my county, the provisional voters are not marked any differently in the books from the "normal" voters. The determination whether or not to count provisional voters does not occur until 2 or 3 days after the election. The voter registrar must research each provisional voter and issue a determination as to each voter's eligibility on a case-by-case basis.

Now, it IS possible to go back through the sign-in sheets after the validity of all provisional voters has been finally decided and strike the names of those whose ballots have been rejected, but not on election night. No one from the state party called and asked me whether or not I could differentiate provisionals from "regulars." What a can of worms!

[efhmc]

16. You could start by asking them, if they have no paper work

showing otherwise.

[crispini]

17. In our county, the provisional voters are kept on a different sign-in sheet.

They are not stamped any differently in the poll book, but they are on a different sign-in sheet when they actually vote.

So you could ask the election judge for a look at that list and write them down. That is my only thought. Since I am both the election judge and the precinct chair I will know who is who. But you are correct. There is no apparent mechanism in place for the election judge to convey this to the temporary convention chair if they are not the same person.

[susanr516]

18. True

but those lists are only available for voters who waited until e-day to vote. What about the over 25,000 early voters in my county?

[crispini]

19. Surely there would be no reason for an early voter to provisionally vote?

I mean, it's not like they are in the wrong place.

I guess you're right, there could be a few people who were not registered and insisted on voting, or whatnot. I just looked through the early voting reports in our county and there is no way to know about those people.

:scared:

I might give the elections office a call in the morning, but at this late date, there's really not a lot that can be done, I think.

:scared:

[susanr516]

20. What a mess--

All these rule changes at the last minute. I've already sent out one emergency mailing to my precinct chairs on Thursday. At this late date, I can't get letters to them in time. Plus, my election judges have already picked up their materials. I'll have to call through that list, too, just to tell them that the precinct chairs will be asking to copy their provisional voter list. I've already lost one election judge to a back injury, and I'm frantically calling everyone I know for an emergency replacement, and I've got another judge whose husband has developed congestive heart failure, so now she's iffy for Tuesday. My election judges and precinct chairs are already in a panic over all the last-minute rules changes, and I can't attend my own precinct convention because I have to take in all the paperwork at the courthouse, damn it.

Well, at least this election has been exciting.

[TexasLinda]

23. I thought the reason the voters were provisional

was because they weren't in the poll book? That's why they're on a different sign-in sheet. When I've worked on election day, my poll list only included the registered voters in my precinct.

[susanr516]

24. True.

In some of my precincts, folks with no voter registration card and no valid ID are the main problem. I'll be glad when this is over.