All you people hatin' on Cantwell better wake up

[pscot]

I understand you don't like her votes on Iraq and Alito. I understand some of you just don't like her. But we've got a chance to retake the Senate this fall. There are a half dozen republican seats ripe for the picking. However, we can't afford to lose any of the seats we currently hold. So you got to ask yourselves, are we better off with a Democratic Senate with Cantwell in it? Or is the satisfaction of dumping Cantwell worth leaving the republicans in control? Make no mistake, a vote for Dixon is a vote for McGavick. The Bush regime has two more years. You think it makes no difference whether Harry Reed or Trent Lott is senate leader? You think it makes no difference whether Orren Hatch or Pat Leahy chairs the judiciary committee? You think having that hack Pat Roberts in charge of the intelligence committee is in the country's best interest?

In a perfect world Cantwell wouldn't be my first choice to represent Washington. But we got to deal with the world we live in. There's no Ned Lamont going to come riding up on a big white horse and sweep us off to some ideal place. The cards are already dealt. It's Cantwell or McGavick. I've seen this kind of choice before. In 1968 Hubert Humphrey couldn't distance himself from LBJ's war. I was so mad at Hubert that I didn't vote. A lot of other people had the same reaction and we ended up with Nixon. In 2000 Nader told us there was no difference between Gore and Bush. A lot of people who should have kknown better believed him. I wonder if they still do.

My point is just this: There's always a choice and there is aways a lesser evil. Whatever your feeling toward a particular candidate, there is only one overwhelming argument; in November the Republicans have got to go. Don't piss away this opportunity.

[eviltwin2525]

1. Thank you! Maria's the ONLY choice

I couldn't have said it better!
Cantwell's primary opponent (I'm a political junkie and I can't even remember his name, he's that obscure) has ZERO chance in November. I'd love to be able to vote for this so-called Green candidate Dixon for state rep or mayor or anything he's actually qualified for (and if it's a position where a Green vote wouldn't automatically be a Republican proxy vote) -- but U.S. Senate? No way he's ready for that.
Welcome to reality, my fellow Washingtonians: a vote for anybody but Maria Cantwell is a vote for McGavick, and it's a vote for BushCheneyHastertFalwellRobertson.
Yes, the war is terrible, and her stand on it is wrong, but I guarantee she'll be 100% for real hearings with real subpoenas; furthermore, I guarantee McGavick will be a 100% GOP party-line toady, just like Dave Reichert.
I live in Snohomish County (just north of Seattle, for those reading in the rest of the country), and Maria Cantwell is ALL that stands between my Public Utility District and a $20,000,000 fraudulent bill FERC is determined to let Kenny-boy Lay slam us with for having the balls to say "NO" to Enron's ripoffs.
Maria's consistently great environmental voting record makes it ridiculous for "Greens" to oppose her.
The notion that is ludicrous McGavick wouln't do a 180 away from her strong support for GLBT rights and reproductive choice.
I'll put her record on education, healthcare, and fiscal responsibility against anybody in Congress.
And these cheesy McGavick ads (that have been running since February, for crying out loud!!!) are just disgusting: the only legitimate knock anybody's ever made against Maria is that she's fiscally conservative, and too civil to pompous blow-hard despoiler Republicans who don't deserve it (yes, Don Young, I'm talking about YOU). But while she's civil, she's also an effective fighter -- she was the key fillibuster threat that derailed the worst ANWR-drilling threat yet this session.
While I disagree with Maria on the war and Alito, I'm in no way distancing myself from her. I'm PROUD to support Maria Cantwell for Senate! Just as I've done in every election since I got here in 1991, I'm EAGER to work for her election. See you on a corner in Bothell soon -- I'll be the big crazy grinning guy with the Cantwell sign!

[spitintheocean]

15. Sounds like Maria's getting nervous

This is a most odd campaign , Now , We are being told we are not being patriotic if we criticize the 80th least popular senator because of her stubbornness and her stands on issues . Just likes the Repugs saying , Dems are unpatriotic . Now Dems are saying if you don't go along with the War Party and Maria Cantwell that you are unoatriotic .
Why can't Cantwell change her mind on the war ? , other Wash. state politicians have . , the Senate just voted for over another year of the war and the Democratic party is lock step with Bush , That means the Democratic Party is the party of war and how you peacemakers can justify blowing up another nation , pre-empively is beyond me . VOTE FOR MARIA , BUT CHECK YOUR CONSCIOUS AT THE DOOR . I am ashamed at the rationalizations that are being used , people looking toward the sky hoping Maria has a change of mind , If she gets away with her awful voting record , she will be our Senator till she is as old as Slade was , not a pretty picture , A Senator that has lost her way in pursuit of campaign cash and DLC war points . Heck of a Job , Maria .

[pscot]

20. I have not suggested that patriotism is contingent

on support for the war or a vote for Cantwell. The war is a supreme act of folly initiated by a deeply stupid man, and enabled by a Congress filled with tub-thumping zealots and a pusillanimous opposition too cowed to get off their knees. I think that Democrats who lend support to the war do so because they're afraid Karl Rove is hiding under the bed ready to jump out and bite them on the ankle as soon as they try to stand up for something. That's the way politics is played today, and it is indeed contemptible. That said, Cantwell is no worse than Hillary or any of 20 others, including John Kerry in '04. I'm not expecting M.C to have a change of mind, though that would certainly be good. I just expect her to vote for Harry Reid, or whoever else the party puts forward to run the senate. And remember, Slade only served 2 terms, and at the end he was dodging down stairwells trying to avoid his outraged constituents.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

55. spitintheocean

Can you expand on just what you mean in what you wrote about displacing your (conscience)- (?) apon entry ,- and (one HECK of a job.)

Also your being (ashamed)-, (?),- at the rationalizations being used .

And how you as a (voter) (?)-, think that senator Cantwell has lost her way in (pursuit),-(?)-, of campaign moneys. (?)

It may be a question of balance.

Where it,s a matter of question, thats just my game.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

2. Well now! Isn,t that the hard facts?

They are awake , thats just the point. They are questioning ,thats a good thing. What is even better is that (THEY) are intrested . This is not a church meet to argue over who,s brand of religion is closer to God.

I don,t think anybody here needs to wake up,they are all awake fully.

I remember Hubert and Goldwater. If you want to talk about Nixon, thats just my game.

[Cascadian]

3. It still doesn't change my mind.

For the primaries anyway. I will still intend to cast my vote for Mark Wilson. If Wilson does not get it, then I will (VERY reluctantly) cast my vote for Cantwell. That is all she will get from me! No signs, no buttons, or money contributions at all. I still think she is not a good Senator. Don't give me this nonsense about her being better than what McGavick could do! I am sick of such statements! They are an insult to my intelligence. What makes you think she will not support an invasion on Iran? How about her allowing another Neocon to the Supreme Court or another Free Trade agreement to help out the fat cats? If these are our choices then let me say it again, our political system is a stinking joke!


John

[pscot]

8. You're right. A stinking joke

A man is getting ready to go out for the evening. His wife asks where he's going.

"I thought I'd go down to the Wee Three and play some cards," he says.

"That place is a dive," she says.

"I know," he replies.

"Last time you played cards there they cleaned you out," she says.

"I know," he answers.

"You said they cheated you," she says. "The game was rigged."

"I know," he says.

"If you know, why do you keep going back there?"

"Because," he says "it's the only game in town."

[rhett o rick]

58. Good story. If you vote when there is only one candidate, are you

participating in democracy? How about if both candidates are the same? You vote and feel good about your self but actually your vote did nothing. "The game was rigged".

Sometimes not voting is a vote. You are not fixing the problem, but at least you are not validating the "rigged" game.

[uppityperson]

4. Are you seriously saying what I think you are?

You seem to be saying that if we do not like Cantwell, that we will vote for the republican. You also seem to be saying that a lot of people will not vote unless Cantwell gets the Democratic nomination and again the repubs will win.

I see other alternatives. First that we can work to get a better Democrat in. Secondly that people (democrats and independents) are so fed up with Cantwell that if she gets the Dem nomination, they WILL stay home rather than vote and the repub will pick up the seat.

So, how about instead of insulting those of us who are working to get a decent democratic alternative and working at putting pressure on Cantwell to shape up, you join with us and don't piss this opportunity away?

I have been trying to figure out the polite way to say this and this is as good as I can get tonight.

[pscot]

6. If there is a viable alternative to Cantwell

he or she has yet to emerge. Of course that is what the primaries are for, but so far no credible alternative to Cantwell has come forward. By all means vote in the primary. But don't abandon the party just because you are disatisfied with our nominee. Withholding your vote is tantamount to voting for McGavick. How does that provide us with the "decent Democratic alternative" you say you want. How does extending Republican control of the senate for two more years bring about that "decent Democratic alternative" you say you want? Two more years without a raise in the minium wage; two more years without meaningful oversight of the pentagon, the CIA, the NSA and the Whitehouse; two more years of disastrous judicial appointments at all levels of the federal bench; two more years of tax give-aways to the rich; these are the real alternatives to Cantwell.

I'm not happy with her stance on Iraq or her willingness to bend on the Alito nomination, but let's be fair. She has been a tiger in defense of ANWAR. Anyone who can cause Ted Stevens' and Don Youngs' heads to spin around can't be all bad. Her votes on labor issues, civil rights, and the environment have been Democratic mainstream. She's done excellent work on the Enron debacle. I don't see how anyone can say we'ld be better off with McGavick. Has she been a model Liberal Democratic senator? Probably not. But let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.

[uppityperson]

11. Of course I won't withhold my vote if Dem turns out to be Cantwell

Remember that we are working our way up to the primary now and there are alternatives to Cantwell vs nothing in the general election. The primary is what we are working on, with the general election afterwards. I hate Cantwell and will never vote for her in the primary, but you seem to be assuming that those of us that feel this way will then not vote in the general. Give us a break and quit insulting us.

Here is how I will vote:
primary: not Cantwell
general: the Democrat


In the meantime, I am working for Mark Wilson.

[rhett o rick]

16. I am supporting Mark Wilson too.

Hi uppity. I will vote as u outlined. It the only alternative i see. But the struggle we are in isn't Republican vs. Democrat, that would be too easy. Close your eyes and vote Democrat. The struggle is middle class vs. corporatists and there are corporatists in the Democratic Party. Corporatist, fascist, plutocrats, Neocons, they are one and the same and not us. They support the war for profiteering purposes, they support CAFTA and NAFTA and align the SCOTUS with corporate supporting judges. They vote to let corporations control the internet. They vote like Cantwell. Having choices of Cantwell vs. McGavik or Hillary vs. McCain is like choosing between getting hit over the head vs. stuck in the eye. The system is very broke. (poor grammar for emphasis)

[TechBear_Seattle]

5. Until after the primary, there are alternatives

And I intend to support those alternatives. If you don't like that...

T O U G H !

[pscot]

7. I like it just fine, TB

All I am saying is don't abandon your party's nominee. In my opinion we must bend all our energies toward recapturing the House and Senate. Whatever our feelings toward any individual candidate, I believe the needs of our party, and indeed the nation must take precedent. The Republicans have created a constitutional and economic trainwreck. Letting McGavick win this election will perpetuate that trainwreck. He favors drilling in ANWAR. Last week members of he National Mining Association ponied up $1000 a head to dine with him. Young and Stevens, the troglodites from Alaska have held a fund raiser for him. Two days ago it was the Financial Services Roundtable, which wants to privatize Social Security (see Joel Connelly's column Friday, June 23). Believe me, folks, there is a difference between Cantwell and McGavick, and it is not a trivial distinction.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

10. Pscot-, Lets look to the West

you just might see that at root ,at the core base, right where it will come down to a spade in call to the finnal play being played as a spade. Face card showing, the domocrate will vote democratic. now than it should also be clear to you that their are many that are fed-up on high with the Senators representation of the people of the state of Washington.There are no republicans in this viewing.

Senator Cantwell is not doing well right now in her re/election efforts. To the point of seeming somewhat lackadaisical. Now the fact is ,this is not a good thing.

And if you do not see it this way at current,than try to see this,-(Nobody like,s to think to feel as though they are being taken for granite.) And Senator Cantwell is seemingly oblivious to that in a fact.

And furthermore, if she does not come to terms with this in the fact of the matter, than We ARE IN Trouble.

She will have to show us ,what she,s got.
OK, now we are all from Missouri for the time being, and she has to show us.

Clams clam up, that,s just what clams do,
She needs to get out there befor the people, and say what she,s for.

MaGavic , there is no question to the fact he is a member of BushHaven elite. It is no secret what they are about.

James West former mayor of spokane was removed from office by the voters.If some reliefe of frustration is in need, It can happen. I am a democrate, I will vote democratic. And I will not be taken for grainet and go off quietly into the night.I am no clam.

[maxsolomon]

9. here's how i'll vote

primaries: Anybody but Maria.
general: Anybody but a Republican.

Vote GOP? I treat a Republican Vote like 7Up treats caffeine: Never have, never will.

[geniph]

12. I'm voting for her, BUT

(everyone has a big but), I'm not doorbelling or phonebanking for her, and I'm not sending her any money this year. My time and money are very limited commodities, and my energy and funds are going to Darcy Burner.

But I agree with you. I've been trying to say the same thing here for months, but have finally just accepted that people don't agree. Fine, that's their prerogative. I just wish people would quit bad-mouthing her quite so much publicly - it's got the Repukes all rubbing their hands with glee over the Democrats "eating their own" and the "deep divide" in the state Democratic party - which is horseshit. Anything that makes Repukes happy sucks, in my book.

But I do wish people who thought Wilson was a viable candidate would take the time to look up his campaign finance filings; they are a MESS. I wish as much as anyone else that money didn't play the role it does, but you have to have a decent campaign treasurer who follows the reporting rules properly, or you will not be seen as a real candidate by the people who can truly help you. I've also been at too many political events with him where he didn't campaign at all - he's pleasant enough if someone comes up to him and seeks him out, but he doesn't do the whole political thing that well. You have to go over to people, introduce yourself, say, "I'm so and so, and I'm running for such and such office. How are you?" and so forth. I wasn't that great at it myself when I ran, but it's really critical for him if he wants to be taken seriously.

[rhett o rick]

13. I am afraid you make a good argument. But I am saddened that this

is what it has come to. Sen Cantwell has a 100% record of voting against what I have asked her to do. It will be interesting to see if she keeps her record intact and votes to give corporations control of the internet, our last freedom. She is clearly a corporatist, but as you say not as bad as McGavick. The corporatists have gained significant control in the Democratic Party. Maybe we should give up, kiss the internet goodbye and drink our koolaide.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

14. Internet control/ bad mouthing

How does a politican represent the people,s views if the peoples views are not effectively put out there? Politicans political views do indeed change because the majority says it will. Some politicans are very keen ,in that they change their views befor (it)is taken directely to the majority, or the people.

Isn,t that just why people read the newspapers ,Newsweek ,Time ,watch sixty minutes ,the local news, stay informed and all that?

Run silent run deep, clam up because those republicans can use your grievances - opposing opinions as a dagger to drive deep into the democratic main frame?

Hell too ,thats fear and smear reverse.

This war, do you think the democrates are the only people discusted with Bush adminstration? Do you think such people would sum it up to say, vote the lesser of the two evils?

The politican that can not stand to criticism ,does not deserve to serve.

The freedom of speech, to say ,to write what you think and believe is in part what made this country great.

They try to keep books of the shelves, or from being published. They have used every argument there is to use in the courts.It can not and it will not work. Not even in time of war.Since they have not figured out ways to use the internet to their advantage, control is a temporary option. It too will make it,s way to the Supreme court.J. Edger Hoover is dead, as should be his invention of wide spread fear and smear.

[Pierzin]

17. Make Maria fight for her seat, she barely got it in the 1st place

First off, pscot, this is a great thread. Thanks for starting it, I was hoping the almost dead political banter here in the WA state forum could be rekindled somehow, and you got a few folks posting again!:hi:

Second, I am supporting Mark Wilson until after the primary. Then I will do whatever it takes to make sure a Repug doesn't take Marias seat. If that means voting for her, damnit, I'll plug my nose, close my eyes and do the dirty thing. Maria shouldn't take her seat for granted, as she barely squeaked in there in the first place.
Forget about Aaron Dixon, he's got no chance. How can you support a candidate who doesn't even vote as a citizen? (I beleive this was reported in the Stranger.)
I hope we can get a decent progressive candidate, as many think the Dems have all turned corporatist, including me. I don't want to support anyone who votes for CAFTA, NAFTA, or any other corporate giveaways that make it easy for companies to send jobs overseas. I certainly will not donate to the Democratic Party if they are going to support this internationally condemned ccupation of Iraq.
What we need here in Washington state is a Ned Lamont or someone(anyone!) who will challenge the status quo and stand up for we the people. People need to realize the Repugs are waging war on the middle class, and the sooner the better.

[pscot]

19. The Democratic Party's Corporatist sellout

Has been a bone in my throat for some time, but I think the best way to address that issue is by going after guys like Lieberman, where the seat is safely Democratic and a Liberal alternative, like Lamont, is available. But right now, the transcendant reality is Republican control of all three branches of government and the mess they've made of everything they've touched. Unless we can change that, nothing else really matters. With regard to Cantwell, you've got to remember that she was a one term congresswoman at the beginning of Clinton's first term. She was tossed in the Republican landslide of 1994. That has to have made her gunshy. Her timidity on Iraq is a way, misguided in my opinion, of cozying up to more conservative voters. She's saying "See, I'm not some dangerous lefty peacenik. Please don't hurt me."

With regard to our Corporatist future, I kind of come down on James Kunstlers side. I think the end of the Age of Oil is going to cripple the corporations as well as the quasi fascist corporate state that the Republicans are trying to foist off on us. The oligarchs like to pretend that they don't live in the same world as the rest of us. We'll see.

[Pierzin]

21. Yeah so she lost her seat in 94, big deal...

It's not like she'd be homeless because she lost her job, like the rest of us would be if we lost ours.
Yeah, maybe she is gunshy, as you point out, and she doesn't want to be seen as a crazy liberal. I understand that. But I also understand that she's in the big leagues up there. But that's politics. Like baseball. You win here, you lose there, does that mean you must sell your soul to the boy Emperor?
Murray won her last election relatively easily, if you ask me. I wonder how both will do in the next one.

It just pains me to see this continuation of complete madness, and only 13 senators(including Kerry) voted for his bill.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

18. Fear and Smear

J. Egger Hoover became famous durning the Depression error, the ninteen twentys and thirties. Gangland mobsters spreading fear and smear to gain control over the speak easy environment. , the control and sales of booze., and all business associated to it. He , J.Edger Hoover invented himself as a champion and defender of the people, in his fight against crime,massive murders, booze, and Fear And smear being wide spread through-out the country in and within it,s capital citys.

He, J. Edger Hoover in the process became a master mind of fear and smear his own self. And communism.
his pet project .

Hoover profiled fear and smear tactics and with what he learned of it became the master of it.
It spreads likeness to a damn unstoppable virus, and esclates itself , It knows no bounds. Forcrissakes ,it effects peoples soul,s if it exist,s.

Hoover knew that people would perpetuate anything and everything once they were convinced, and easily done threw majority given educatiuon was not wide spread until after the ww2 baby boomer generation became or came into being. Hoover understood how to use common orordinary people as a majority as a tool of leverage in his pursuit of power. He had power over powerful politicans and influence in governmental policy making. And he was also considered resourchful.

He hated homosexuals ,though he himself was a homosexual.
Does it not seem odd that the government still views homosexuality as a disease officially- And at the same time his invention of fear and smear tactics being used on wide spread psychological levels on a massive scale is as of yet in the twenty first century still useful from within high levels of our government at current?

In short, the saying -damned if you do, or damned if you don,t. It effects all people on verious levels, it knows no bounds.

You don,t have to a lawer to know how it work,s.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

23. Hard work, mops, , Make no small waves , At all cost.

Fear and smear as a political tactic, It,s psychological permeating effects remain, as we know. Once instilled all it requires is periodic reinforcement. Hard work paying off/ Rossi ,key phrase in his political campaign. the republican party national effort to gain control politically of Washington state. They just must have control of Washington and ofcourse for reasons.

Make no small waves- Chris Vance. Take the smallest issues and raise high turturbulance ,the higher the better. - a reinforcement measure applied. And ofcourse the total application of fear and smear tactics. Keeps the anger generating and the spreading of fear and smear throughout the populas.

At All Cost- Early on in the ninteen thirtys - J. Egger Hoover ,director of the F-B-I., saw communism as his future in fame and power.The way to reinvent himself threw His agency.
As WW2 was comming to an end the Russian army was marching to Germany. At the highest levels of the Russian government it was all and essiential that the Russians get there first, (At All cost). All soldiers, anything -anybody- in and including the sacrificing of their own, reguardless to place in position. At all cost. Chris Vance.

The president George Bush, in his secound inaugural , He said early on that We Must Get past 9/11, we must move on. But he kept making repeated reference to 9/11 throughout his speech. Fear And smear.

It starts at the top.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

26. Bush - Giuliani- Fear and smear reinforcement in motion

The night of the election vote count down, as we know the Washington state BanDinno,s were out in full force. And Bush was somewhere off in flight , in fact he was notified that he was down while in flight. He said ,"than I may have lost" that was befor the sliding numbers were dropped. Sliding numbers for later reference.

On the national news coverage former N.Y.C. mayor Rudy Giuliani was the guest,- And don,t you know he just had to repeatedly remind us of 9/11, over and over again. He just could not stop. Even though he was called out on it several times , he just kept up with it.He kept up with it because it was part of the fear and smear reinforcement method of the republican national party king pins. Essentially he was being faithful to the republican right wing king pins, those that I will call the republican high right rule of Thumb- King pins- big money.

Later on in January of 2005 Bush gave us his secound inaugural, and don,t you know Bush made repeated reference to 9/11 throughout his speech, disreguarding what he said early on in his speech, He said, we must get past 9/11, we must move on. Bush would have you think he was speaking to all Americans , even those that did not vote for him. The central issue for Bush was Iraq and Iran, which is now clear as bell to fact.

If you know that the 9/11 attack situation coud very well have happened thirty years ago , than you must also ask, knowing that soon after the Bush adminstration took hold of office ,they began to close ranks and distance theirselves, (The Bush blockaid) Just what was going on behind those closed ranks reguards to Iraq- Iran- , Middle Eastern interest,s as a whole. (?) The question raise,s itself.

Back to Rudy Giuliani, It seems those republicans, some of them ,not all of them, are becoming moreso aware that there is indeed something terribly wrong with the Bush adminstration and perhaps Bush too, as they are coming around. Giuliani ran straight into his sudden awareness as result of hurricane Katrina. In fact he said as a matter of public record that Bush,s handling of Katrina ans his too slow response ,lackadaisical- true to Bush form , was a very bad thing for Bush to do. He went on to say that when 9/11 happened ,on that day, he Giuliani,- was out on the streets on New York city surveying and finding out from the people what is and was needed. He did not thwart Bush the right way, but he did however as a republican ,as best he could ,come into the realization that something is definitely wrong with the Bush adminstration.

More and more of those republicans in office are reaching the same conclusions, as best as they can ,given - they are republicans.It than may stand to reason that their is enough of Question about the Bush adminstration to cause pannic within itself.This in turn will no doubt cause an escalation of a fear and smear effort ,perhaps on a wide spread national level. Pannic causes irrational actions.

People or politicans like Criss Vance for instance ,would say, (The more the better.) And Rossi, the mole patrol , he drinks his 100 proff behind the curtin. The curtin or vail that covers the intire operation.

The other guy magic Mike, Same as Bush , He can,t work with the Kennedys, But he can always use a good idea. He will claim to run a good clean campaign, good old fashion Washington home grown apple pie,ala mode. He,s everybodys friend, He,s for you, Just like Dinno with a mop. Just like J. Edger Hoover ,in what really happens behind the curtin. Fear and Smear. It,s a powerful tool, and deadly. It,s psychologiacl effects can be ever lasting,and it can carry on threw to new generations. Hoover passed threw more than a few of those. The screen shielder, behind the curtin is the black sheep. Ban Dinno,s por favor?

[WA98296]

22. Vote Cantell, take back the houses-- THEN hold Dems feet to the fire.

[uppityperson]

24. Hold Dems feet to the fire, vote Democrat, take back houses, repeat

[rhett o rick]

56. Voting is the way we "hold their feet to the fire". If we vote for Maria

we will have her for six more years to vote with the republicans/corporations. If we have to vote for Cantwell to save democracy, then all is lost already.

We tried to "hold her feet to the fire" and influence her voting in the last six years. She ignored us and voted with the neocons. She doen't even have the decency to tell us how she stands on Iraq.

How can I say this: SHE SUPPORTS GEORGE W BUSH AND THE NEOCONS.

[Raster]

25. I am not a Cantwell fan, however, the prospect of McGavick winning her

seat is UNTHINKABLE. She *may* be a DINO. He is a rethuglican and will most certainly be a bush* lapdog. I will hold my nose and vote for Cantwell. I hope the scare she gets makes her realize she has pissed many of her constituents off.

[weeksbr1]

31. Spoiled Brats!

Don't worry, I say it out of jealousy. But I can't believe you are all (most, anyway) badmouthing Maria and saying things like, she's a "DINO," and "I'll vote for her... but only because McGavick is worse." You make me sick. My US Rep. is Bart Stupak (D-MI). He is pro-death penalty, anti-choice, against gay rights, he's against most gun control even though Detroit has huge gun problems, and he's about the worst Democrat in the whole House. You know what? I HAPPILY vote for him every two years. Do you know why? Because, number 1, he's a hellovalot better than the whack-job Don Hooper who runs against him every time, and more importantly number 2, because I don't want to ruin it for you guys. Congress (both chambers) runs on the principle that the majority party sets the agenda. If I (and all the other progressives) let Bart's horrible voting record stop me from voting for him, that would be one more seat that the REAL Dems would have to scrape up so that they could finally get something done. I feel your pain guys, but get real, Cantwell's a pinko-commie compared to Stupak and you should be thanking your lucky stars for having her and working every waking moment to keep her in there. Washington will be dead to me if the Dems fall one seat short of the majority because Cantwell lost to McSatan. That's all I got. Sorry for butting my head into the politics of a state that I've never even been to. I just wanted to give you all some perspective.

[uppityperson]

32. Yes, we have options here and want to make things even better.

And we end up voting not for who we necessarily want, but for who we must.

[Raster]

34. Thanks and don't need your perspective. I have my own. And as a

constituent of Cantwell's, I'll say any damn thing I please. And as far as a number of Democrats in this state are concerned, Cantwell seems to have other priorities other than serving her constituents in the state that elected her. I know you mean well, but it comes off very, very preachy. Stand down, Reverend Mother. Cantwell is the epitome of what's wrong with the DINO's in Congress.

[pscot]

36. Wrong

Cantwell is certainly no worse that Hillary, who is the darling of the DLC wing of the party. We're all Democrats. Some of our representatives, in order to get elected, have to say and do things that some of us find distasteful. The behaviour of Hillary, who comes from a safe, liberal state, is far less defensible than that of Maria Cantwell, or even Mary Landrieaux, who don't have a lock on their jobs. There is no Democrtic Doxology. If you want moral certainty and ideological purity you'll have to join a church.

[Raster]

43. I'm no Hilary fan either. I will be voting for Ms. Cantwell even though I

disagree with many of her positions. That's my right, to disagree. And to express it. Democracy and freedom of speech, remember?

[weeksbr1]

38. "don't need your perspective. I have my own."

Sounds a bit narrow-minded, don't you think. I was going to be done since I'm not from WA and all, but now you just pissed me off. The idea that you won't listen to other people's view points makes me wonder why you joined DU. Did you just do it so that you could spill your vitriole for Cantwell somewhere where no one would know it was you?

The human experience is learning from other people and changing who you are in light of what you've learned. I don't necessarily agree with everyone on here, but I atleast take what they say to heart. I expect others to do the same for me most of the time... unless I'm way off on something. But I don't think I'm alone in how I feel about Cantwell-style Dems. It's just illogical to boot her out because she doesn't agree with you 100% of the time. That's something that the whacko religious nuts do with abortion and it drives me crazy that they vote against everything else that's right and just, and even what's good for their own personal interests, just to punish someone for being compassionate enough to take a pro-choice stand. We should be able to compromise and form a coalition. We all deserve someone better than McWhatever. McButthead, by the way, will have an effect on me almost as much as he will you, so I think it is kind of my business. If I had a zillion dollars I could butt into any state's politics, but since I don't, why can't I do it by writing?

And what's wrong with the DINO's in congress is not the fact that they are DINO's. It's that there aren't enough of them so that Sen. Feingold and Sen. Boxer and the like can do their jobs. Without the DINO's, (and the same works for the RINO's and the Repubs - even though there are only two RINO's and the rest are REAL Republicans, aka religious zealots with no idea what's going on in the real world) there would never be enough seats for us to have a majority. Until we adopt run-off voting in the US and minority parties can have a say in government, it's the Dems. That's all we got, sister.

And sorry if I came off as preachy - my granpa is a Methodist minister... sometimes it rubs off.

[Raster]

44. I did listen to your viewpoint. "spoiled brats," remember.

You make a alot of assumptions. I've read and agree with much of what you said. So, do I get the right to have my viewpoints also, or is that just you?

[jonolover]

27. Ya, I know. I'll still vote for her.

She's the lesser of the two evils. In these times, that is good enough.

[spitintheocean]

33. Yes , but the lesser of two evils is still evil

Why not vote for an alternative to Ms.C in the primary if she does not represent your values ?? This stubborn Sentator gal just doesn't get it . I believe she can be rehabilatated but alas I have not one shred of evidence that this is so .
I say let's keep telling her what is on our minds . Afterall She works for us and we hired her . Let's look upon this as an evaluation of her first six years in office , not as party destroying sniping . The real problem is Ms. C represents top/down governance and I'm not gonna swallow war without end from her or our president . I intend to remind her to stop this war at every opportunity and no amount of saved reindeer in Alaska is going to change my view of the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq .

[icymist]

28. You think that Dems. won't vote unless Cantwell wins the primary?

How dare you insult our intelligence with such lines as In 2000 Nader told us there was no difference between Gore and Bush. A lot of people who should have kknown better believed him. I wonder if they still do. Do you really think that Democratic Washingtonians are that stupid to believe fear propaganda that Cantwell is the only 'electable' candidate against McGavick? Keep your fear propaganda tactic out of our primaries.

p.s.- Oh yes, that is propaganda you're spreading when you whip up fear of a Republican dominated Senate unless Washingtonians vote how you dictate we should.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

29. Gore-

Al Gore in keeping a clean imege, which is a good thing, in the debate,s used the agreeing phrase, I agree with my opponent on this issue. It looked bad, it became a reference point., for the swing votes. Where as if he had said something more intresting, such as , In my opinion ,my opponent ,in what he seems to think he is about, -is on the right track in the issue, however with no track record., reguard to fallowing that which he says he is for threw, (key point) We as the democratic party do and have clearly shown that we do.Where as my opponents party has a track record of going into a problem area and politicizing it, and when the time ,effort and cost run up, they bail out,let the record show. I won,t do that, we won,t do that. The path to a better America is right here. Not with my opponent,s party.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

30. In further connection to, Swing votes

And let the record show here and now, that swing votes a very important in the Senate race, and 2008 as well. So if you voted republican in this state in the last let,s say two elections, and now you are sure that Bush has to be stopped, are you going to lissen to Cantwell considering the big issue is the WAR? Or lets say one of the big issues.

So they say, well the real democrates will eventually bring her into the light right? Or they say a vote for her is a vote for war.

So her campaign is more like Gore,s., When he said he agrees with his opponent on certain issues ,there are those people that saw Al Gore as a mirror reflection of the same thing, or mimmic.

It is almost unbeliveable , in just how this hand will play out. Think of how it would be if there were no choice, if there were no other option, and if all you could think to say to sum it up is, We may have a better chance with the democrates.

Cantwell should not have a free easy unopposed ride on the democratic party in this state. And considering The War and just how it is being conducted is the big deal.

Is there no such place as Eastern Washington? Are there no apples? Can a democratic challenger call Cantwell out and up front on the issues? hell no-, No free ride.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

35. A coffee house joke- by deskjet.

I came across a jack-ass today,- He tried to fool me into thinking he was someone other than. I said , jack -ass, do you know who you are trying to fool?

The jack-ass said to me, there is no foolishness hear- tell anywhere,s near, is there?

Think not what you really are
But
How you prefer to be referred to as
Or
What it looks like is what counts
Not what it really is


Deskjet 1979.

[pscot]

37. I'm sorry you don't seem to see the difference

between propaganda and a reasonable conversation among intelligent equals, which was the intent of my initial post. I would happily consider some alternative to Cantwell, or to my representave, Rick Larsen, if such a person were to run in the primary election. The problem with your argument is that no such person has come forward in either case. As to whipping up fear of a Republican dominated senate, last time I looked that is exactly what we had. You don't change that by throwing out a good Democrat in search of a perfect one. Especially if that paragon of political perfection exists only in your imagination.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uppityperson]

40. Exactly, what icymist said here.

OK, I will repeat, who I vote for in the primary is who I want to be the Dem candidate. Who I vote for in the general is the Dem candidate. If Cantwell can't win the primary, should she be running against McGavick? I want a Dem candidate that represents me and will vote for who that is in the primary.

[weeksbr1]

41. Speaking of "fear mongering" and "propoganda"...

you use a little demagoguery yourself. Calling someone Karl Rove... isn't that the pot calling the kettle black? Besides, the threat of republican control is real - for God's sake it's here!

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uppityperson]

45. Where did he/she call someone Karl Rove?

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pscot]

48. That''s a very interesting argument.

If Cantwell wins the primary it will not be on her merits, but becuase of fear tactics. Would that then invalidate her win? Look, I'm not trying to tell anyone how to vote in the primary. All I'm suggesting is that the country would be better off with the senate in Democratic hands than it is under the current regime. If that's fear-mongering, then I'm guilty as charged.

[uppityperson]

49. Of course, we are agreeing with senate in Dem hands.

Going 1 step further and saying we would like a different Dem than Cantwell. Saying we need to keep her because otherwise the Repubs will keep control of congress is what I disagree with. There are people who will NOT vote for Maria, will NOT vote this fall is she is the candidate and hence, can very well keep Repubs in power. I want a different Dem, I want her to feel the pressure that she is not representing enough of us that we want he out. Perhaps them she might begin to represent us better.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

50. In a point,

Here is a thing to consider. The reason we are stuck with Cantwell and her position on the war, Even though she was told that the high ranking members of the democratic party would not turn their backs on her, is just this, People, that are perfectly qualified to make a difference from within the political arena , people that are indeed exceptional in seemingly everything that they do,- Are for reasons not the least bit intrested in politics.

Politics should not be a place for the very rich to dabble as they so please. And here we are sporting Magic MaGavic , and Senator Cantwell , 47% and 42% and the money hasen,t even begun to fly.

Cantwell is so far into the wheeling and dealing aspect of politics, the trade off vote thing-,that she cannot come to terms with herself in her vote to support the war and what is going on in and within the intire political arena and the nation as well or the rest of the world in so far as changing views, and she was told that the ranking democrates will not turn their backs on her.

Her position on the war is very very dusturbing to say the least.

If more and enough people put their opinions up there , make their grievances known , than mabe just mabe , Fresh blood can be attracted to politics. God knows we need some of that, the more the better.
Let the wealth ,those few that are rich come to those that can do.Thats the other way.

Every good honest politican has always been backed by people and wealth.

How much does a congressman make ,in relation to a professional in the field of corperate interprise. You know what I mean ,-a working professional. And I am not talking about Magic MaGavic.

Than there is the public disclosure and little or no privacy. And than ofcourse the family is subject to public exposure.

So here we are Magic MaGavic, and Cantwell.

We can do better than that.

[AX10]

47. I agree. We must pull out all the stops to keep this seat out....

of the hands of the GOP.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

51. weeksbr1 should be invited back

In a point she brought out about the importance of this race for seats in the houses, and the free exchange of ideas and ideology,s politicos , and the growing national almost alarming concern about the republican control of both houses ,does it not stand to reason it involves everybody? Indeed it is about house cleaning, at the same time it is also about the free exchange of ideas.

I should think carpet baggers are most welcome. The information highway at work.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

52. Never met her

Can,t really dislike anybody I have never met. Mabe that,s the bummer. What I can do though and however is dislike her position on the war in Iraq. More and more it seems that even the people that at least tried to reserve their opinions about it,threw the benifit of the doubt, are now saying it,s just plane OK to oppose the Bush adminstration on the issue of this war and at the same time support the troops.

But what is the message being sent in Connecticut. He is prepared to run on a independent ticket if he does not win in the primaries.
H. Clinton is supporting whatever the democratic party in Connecticut decides, or what ever is the outcome as per say by the voters. Well, isn,t she smart on that call?

So Liberman,s position on the war- indeed comes at a cost to him and he is feeling it.

But the message is clear ,enough is enough -, message sent and received. clearly.

And Senator Cantwell is and has been receiving the very same message ,though she either cannot or will not hear it or effectively acknowledge it ,s ever growing presence.

What does this mean/ Or does it mean she thinks we don,t know anything?

Makes one wonder just what percentages she is playing.

Indeed she has done very good in areas, But she at the same time seems to have a hearing impairment where it is about the voice of the people.

I find this very disturbing.

[uppityperson]

53. Yes. When I have emailed I get back sweet little thank you notes

that bear no relation to what I wrote about, I mean saying thanks for saying opposite of what I did. I respond saying so and get another same sweet thank you note. I know that she probably has an automatic response email thing, but still I never think she can hear. I would like someone who can hear me and represent what I, in my ultimate wisdom, want.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

54. That,s what I,am getting at Unpittyperson

This is Washington, where mean people suck.

And hatefullness is down there in the pit,s where mean people suck.


Even if I had met her ,I couldn,t hate her.

I really don,t like her position on the war ,that,s all.
And I don,t appriciate her taking the voter,s for granite.

I don,t know much about Wilson, but I,ll hear what he has to say ,and on voting day I will cast my vote.

The idea that a drastic turn of events is the only thing that will change her view in support of the war on global terrorism ,now that,s her position, Has me questioning her competence.

Given Magavic is no more compentent or more of a mirror reflection of all gone bad ,I would have to reasonably assert Cantwell has a slight upper edge .

But the idea that Cantwell will have the aduassity to run on that , I find very disturbing.

And Unpittyperson, the democratic party ,as well as the republican party I would think, given no respectable democrat could care less what a republican response is,- Also does that. Call that ,(off the wall response.) Nonsensical as all hell.

[rhett o rick]

57. Do I understand you that you are willing to sell your soul to keep the

seat? Are you willing to throw out principles of the democratic party? Maria has a D behind her name but otherwise she is a corporatist.

Rationalizing voting for corporatist democrats as the lesser of evils is killing the Democratic Party.

I admit I don't have an alternative, and may have to vote for her, but I refuse to rationalize it. It is a perversion of democracy.