Canada's image lies in tatters. It is now to climate what Japan is to whaling

[CHIMO]

When you think of Canada, which qualities come to mind? The world's peacekeeper, the friendly nation, a liberal counterweight to the harsher pieties of its southern neighbour, decent, civilised, fair, well-governed? Think again. This country's government is now behaving with all the sophistication of a chimpanzee's tea party. So amazingly destructive has Canada become, and so insistent have my Canadian friends been that I weigh into this fight, that I've broken my self-imposed ban on flying and come to Toronto.

So here I am, watching the astonishing spectacle of a beautiful, cultured nation turning itself into a corrupt petro-state. Canada is slipping down the development ladder, retreating from a complex, diverse economy towards dependence on a single primary resource, which happens to be the dirtiest commodity known to man. The price of this transition is the brutalisation of the country, and a government campaign against multilateralism as savage as any waged by George Bush.

Until now I believed that the nation that has done most to sabotage a new climate change agreement was the United States. I was wrong. The real villain is Canada. Unless we can stop it, the harm done by Canada in December 2009 will outweigh a century of good works.

In 2006 the new Canadian government announced it was abandoning its targets to cut greenhouse gases under the Kyoto protocol. No other country that had ratified the treaty has done this. Canada was meant to have cut emissions by 6% between 1990 and 2012. Instead they have already risen by 26%.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cif-green/2009/nov/30/canada-tar-sands-copenhagen-climate-deal

Kick the Bloody Guys out of the Commonwealth!

[ClusterFreak]

1. Agreed....except for this...

To the Brit who wrote the screed in the paper...

Buddy....how about you stop just saying "Canada" is bad and the "Canadian government" is bad and so forth. How about a little HONESTY in your otherwise bang on assessment. How about saying Canada's neoconservative government? How about a little specificity? Whaddya say?

And if you can't do that, or won't do that....then I've got a suggestion for where you can stuff that broad brush of yours.

Now if you'll excuse me I've got to go eat some bangers and mash, never brush my crooked, decaying teeth, go for a walk in the fog and rain, kick up a fuss and punch out the opposing fans at a local football match, drink Guinness at the local pub at 3 in the afternoon on a work day....and so on.

:mad: :eyes:

[HeresyLives]

2. Touchy, touchy.

We've acted self-righteous with the world for a very long time, so don't be surprised when we get it back.

The Brits built an Empire; so far all we've done is preach.

[glarius]

3. All we've done is preach???.....

Canada has built a peaceful, prosperous, tolerant country without civil wars and bloodshed.

We have made important medical contributions such as Dr. Banting and Dr. Best who discovered inlulin in 1921. There have been many others too.

We have contributed much to the creative arts, through film-making. We don't have much of an entertainment industry established here in Canada. Our outstanding actors, writers and directors are prominent in Hollywood. We happen to be situated next door to the U.S.A. which contains Hollywood, the entertainment capital of the world, so our show business people mostly head south for the big money....which is quite understandable.

During World War 2, Canada declared war on Nazi Germany on Sept. 10th, one week after Great Britain. Over 42,000 Canadian service personnel NEVER CAME HOME, and they are buried in foreign places that will be forever a part of Canada. There are Canadian War Graves Cemetaries in 72 different countries around the world. They died so that we can live in freedom, today.

P.S....I think we all know that the problem in Canada right now is that megalomaniac Stephen Harper.

[HeresyLives]

4. Yes, I know.

And I'm aware many of our problems are related to Harper.

But we normally talk a better game than we play. We liked being known as peacekeepers, but we never did anything to keep it up, either in money or equipment. We talked a lot about foreign aid, but it was a scattershot process that's never been effective. We lose talented people to Hollywood but never built an entertainment industry here, and consequently most Canadians watch American TV and movies.

We talk a lot about education but we starve our universities, and tend to promote hockey and sports in general more than educated qualified people. We talk about our people in space, but starve the space agency, and haven't done anything about traveling in space beyond hitching a ride with others. We're keen on our health system, but we all know it needs an overhaul and could be done much better than it is.

We've been very big on human rights, but jumped at the chance to invade Afghanistan, and look at the prisoner abuse mess we've landed in.

And as to our climate problem, well we had a chance to be leaders in the world with Dion, and look what we did to him. So now we're stuck with Harper, and being embarrassed in the world as laggards.

We never seem to have any kind of real leadership. Mostly we drift.

[glarius]

5. Sorry I don't really agree with what you've said....it sounds

like anti-Canadian talking points. The only thing I will comment on is the entertainment thing. Many years ago, Hollywood was established as the world's entertainment capital... because of the excellent climate there for making movies and accessability to different types of terrain. In other European countries and Australia, they developed their own industries through necessity, but it was handier for Canadians to just go south to Los Angeles.

We didn't jump at the chance to invade Afghanistan. Before that, Chretien declined to invade Iraq you'll remember. Afaghanistan was agreed on by all of the allies because that was where Bin Laden (responsible for 9/11) was.

As for Dion...it's not what we did to him, it's what Harper did to him by putting out those horrific ads about him before we even got to know him...when there wasn't even an election going on....
We'll be rid of Harper eventually, (sooner the better) and we'll get back the Canada I love.

[HeresyLives]

7. Criticism is something we need more of, not less.

Otherwise nothing gets changed.

Other countries have film industries, but perhaps you forget that we also grew up on British movies. Everything is just 'handier' for us to do south of the border, and consequently we end up thinking and acting like Americans.

Afghanistan came before Iraq, and became our excuse not to go to Iraq.

Yes, Harper put out ads on Dion, and Canadians believed them. Whose fault is that?

The old Canada isn't coming back, too much has changed.

[glarius]

9. Your reasoning is unsound in my opinion!

We don't "think and act" like Americans. That is just silly!
"Afghanistan came before Iraq and became our excuse not to go to Iraq"....Huuuuh??? Silly again.
"Harper put out ads on Dion, and Canadians believed them"....yes...that's the way it works in politics...in all countries. You see, most citizens don't follow the political scene as closely as those who are on this forum, for instance and that's what politicians (in this case the Conservatives) count on.

[HeresyLives]

11. The results are clear enough.

Whether we like it or not.

[ClusterFreak]

6. Another fan of the broad brush, I see.

Self-righteous? Quite a claim to make, quite an all-encompassing, sweeping generalization backed up with nary even one specific example.

My point was that the British columnist who says all this stuff referred to Canada as some kind of monolithic political entity...as if there is no political spectrum here. He rightly suggested that Canada has a liberal tradition, but then he mistakenly perhaps deliberately goes on to suggest that it's the same liberal tradition he is complaining about now. Stephen Harper is no liberal, need I really point that out to you or him or anyone? He is a right wing ideologue, and should be identified as such by this British columnist.

[HeresyLives]

8. Canadians are known elsewhere for being self-righteous

and having a boy-scout image. Something now gone, possibly forever.

This British columnist is merely pointing that out, and we don't like it. But it's true.

[glarius]

10. I do not agree that we are thought of as self-righteous!

We are more liable to be thought of as too unasuming and modest.
I have nothing more to say on this subject.

[HeresyLives]

12. We are seen that way around the world.

[ClusterFreak]

13. Known by whom? Where elsewhere? Cite one example.

If anyone here is being self-righteous, it's you.

[HeresyLives]

14. Well if you had read the article,

you'd know how we are normally seen around the world, as well as how we're seen now.

But if you need examples:

There are just over three weeks to Copenhagen and the term “boy-scout” has come up several times. “We’re always the Boy Scout in the room,” said Sandra Pupatello, Minister of Economic Development and Trade. Days earlier, Jim Prentice “wants the world to know he’ll be no Boy Scout when crucial climate-change talks convene in Copenhagen a month from now.”

http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2009/11/15/sorry-canada-you-aint-no-boy-scout/

"There are limits to being a Boy Scout" - Jean Chrétien

ESLaPorte -September 21, 2008


Canada has long been admired around the globe as a nation of high ethics, human rights and respect for law.

But Canada's sterling reputation is being seriously degraded by the spreading scandal over involvement in torture in the increasingly sordid Afghan conflict.

http://www.torontosun.com/comment/columnists/eric_margolis/2009/11/29/11967946-sun.html

All week the government searched in vain for public servants to discredit Colvin. It found none.

The story made it around the world – the Times of London, Le Monde, La Romandie, the BBC and the New York Times.

“Canada – torture scandal!”

The sub-text : “Not so clean, these Boy Scout Canadians.”

It should be interesting when Harper goes to China in two weeks to lecture the Chinese on their abhorrent human rights record.

http://www.eastottawa.ca/article-404229-Another-scandal-for-Stephen-Harper.html

[ClusterFreak]

18. Let's see if I got this straight...

First...your Chretien quote is lifted from an entirely different context and era. I would go so far as to say that you deliberately dug up and misapplied a comment he made in the 90's about the Bosnian conflict, in order to further your drowning argument. You completely disingenuously have tried to pass this quote off as Chretien's implicit support for Harper's Afghanistan policy today. In fact, Chretien's analogy was that Canada WAS a boy scout and as such was not inclined to support escalating the Bosnian conflict. Anyone can pull out any old quote they want and try to polish it up to justify something entirely different. Shame on you for doing so. And getting caught doing it.

As for the other links in your post...they simply reinforce MY point, not yours. The blog (yours?), the Margolis column and the third link to the Orleans Star column....??? What do you think these writers are writing about?? They're writing about Canada's Afghan policy (specifically regarding Afghan prisoner transfers) under HARPER! Yes...we're back to that again....Harper, the right wing neocon who due to a fragmentation of the left in this country, currently and sadly has the reigns of power. These writers are writing about Canada's sinking reputation over the last four years....yes, under Harper.

It's his fault, if Canada's reputation on the world stage is suffering. But to extrapolate that Canada acts all high and mighty, and that Canada is seen as self righteous around the world...and then to misrepresent Jean Chretien as a supporter of the Harper Afghanistan policy...is quite simply a load. It's the Stephen Harper government that is sullying Canada's reputation. Period. Specificity matters. Unfortunately the British columnist and anyone else who wants to bash Canada isn't interested in the fact that the current government has twice been elected to minority governments, while the left of centre MAJORITY is splitting it's support amongst the Liberals, the NDP and the Green. This is to say nothing of the 50 parliamentary seats the Bloc chews up in every election.

Blame Harper and his government. Don't blame Canada.

ON EDIT: RE: Sandra Pupatello's 'boy scout' quote...was in the context of Canada (Harper) needing to be tougher fighting for the country's interests in global trade disputes....and was not advocating anything beyond that...such as Harper's Afghanistan policy on prisoner transfers.

[HeresyLives]

19. Have it your own way then. Canada is perfect,

and always was, until the advent of the neo-cons.

So if we can just get rid of Harper, everything will be perfect again, and we can go back to sleep.

[ClusterFreak]

22. I never said Canada was perfect before Harper came along.

I said it's an unfair generalization to say Canada's reputation around the world is in tatters WITHOUT making specific reference to the fact that Canada's reputation has gone steadily downhill under the stewardship of Stephen Harper and his neocons.

I wonder how fair it would be for any Canadian opinion columnist to have written how much Great Britain's reputation was in tatters because of it's decision to back George Bush's invasion of Iraq. In fact, all I ever heard or read was criticism specifically against Tony Blair. Not a condemnation of an entire country.

The Guardian writer doesn't even refer to the new "Conservative government" or "Stephen Harper"...he just says the "new Canadian government". Again...there is a political spectrum in this country, just like his own, but he chooses not to acknowledge it because it doesn't fit into his Canada-bashing narrative.

[HeresyLives]

23. Well then, what's your problem?

Canada was known for it's drift and dawdling long before Harper came along. He just made it more obvious.

Now stop worrying about Monbiot, and pay attention to what he said.

[glarius]

25. Canada was known for it's "drift and dawdling?"

You are starting to sound very silly. Why don't you have something comforting to eat and drink and perhaps you'll feel better....poor baby.

[HeresyLives]

27. Shrug. If you want to hide from the truth, so be it.

[ClusterFreak]

29. I did!! That's entirely my point!!!

How many more freaking times do I have to say it?

This guy writes this article and NOT ONCE NOT EVER does he mention Stephen Harper or his Conservative government. He whitewashes Canada as a once-great nation which has now become a "thuggish petro state".

But why am I bothering trying to explain anything to you? You aren't listening anyway.

I honestly do not know you can stand living in such a terrible country as Canada, my goodness it must be a struggle for you.

[HeresyLives]

31. Love it or leave it?

Why don't we just fix it?

[ClusterFreak]

32. No.

That's not what I said.

Again.

For the absolutely very last time, I said: Don't paint it with a broad brush.

Period.

Full stop.

You hear what you want to hear and disregard the rest, as the song says...

Good day.

:rant:

[HeresyLives]

33. You're more concerned with the

writer not blasting Harper, than you are with dealing with the problem.

I hope it's the last time you blame the messenger.

[ClusterFreak]

34. Refer to all of my previous posts from now on...

I have made all the points I need to make.

Goodbye.

[HeresyLives]

36. Nah, no point at all.

Bye-bye.

[ClusterFreak]

38. I said that already. n/t

[CHIMO]

35. Green muckraker targets Harper

OTTAWA–He has likened flying across the Atlantic Ocean to child abuse, equating their impact on human life.

But a thousand kilograms of carbon dioxide emissions spewed into the atmosphere by a jumbo jet is a pittance compared to the damage Canada is set to do at next week's global climate change summit in Copenhagen, says famed British muckraker George Monbiot.

No one person can convince the Conservative government to change its climate course, accept stronger emissions reduction targets and crack down on Alberta's oil sands. Three opposition parties with a majority of MPs in the House of Commons have tried and failed repeatedly to do so for the last four years.

But the Guardian columnist, lauded environmentalist and award-winning author says he couldn't pass up the chance to add his name to the long list of people pleading with Prime Minister Stephen Harper's government to accept its responsibilities as a world power at "possibly one of the most crucial times in world history.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/733333--green-muckraker-targets-harper

[HeresyLives]

37. Nothing like buzz words eh?

[HeresyLives]

15. Canadians aren't big on introspection I see.

We have this big important image of ourselves, and if anyone dares criticize us - well then attack the messenger.

Also attack anyone who says the messenger might have a point, and maybe we should think about it.

[ClusterFreak]

16. The messenger, the British columnist, shouldn't generalize.

That was always my point.

[glarius]

17. We don't have "this big important image of ourselves" and I'm attacking your message...not you

The point you seem to have missed in all this, is that Canada's image as a country of good people with decent government is being tarnished because of what is taking place now...with Stephen Harper at the helm. Before this right-wing control freak got elected by tricking the people into believing he was a moderate, we were thought well of. Ask the Americans who wore our flag on their back packs while travelling abroad.
I'm praying that he will do something to reveal what he is really all about and his government won't get elected in the next election.

[HeresyLives]

20. Well apparently you do,

because you're having a freak fit over a minor bit of criticism from a British writer.

What...we can't ever be criticized?

[glarius]

21. You're the one having the "freak fit"...I'm having fun!

:rofl:

[HeresyLives]

24. No, you're mourning a Canada

that never existed, and never will.

[glarius]

26. But the thing is I'm not mourning anything!

You don't seem to get it! I'm fine with Canada. I'm pissed off with our current government, but they aren't permanent. Pull yourself together and look on the bright side....It's always darkest before the dawn....This too shall pass....That's all the cliches I can come up with at the moment so....I'm off to bed....nighty-night!

[HeresyLives]

28. Cloud silver lining, white cliffs of Dover, and all that.

Whatever.

[HeresyLives]

30. Maybe this will make you all feel better.

It's embarrassing to be Canadian now

George Monbiot is right – Canada has become a corrupt petro-state most of us are ashamed of. But all is not lost


Heather Mallick guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 2 December 2009 13.00 GMT

George Monbiot wrote a real porcupine of a column this week, excoriating Canada on its failure to act on climate change. The headline read, "Canada's image lies in tatters. It is now to climate what Japan is to whaling."

Brilliant! Just what smug Canada needs, a real seeing-to by an environmental wise man.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/dec/02/embarrassing-canadian-corrupt-petro-state