Have we ever had a leader like Obama?

[shockedcanadian]

Maybe Trudeau? Pearson?

He deserves high praise. He created a website to follow every dollar spent in the stimulus, he wins a nobel peace prize, and now he gets health care reform passed after so long without it.

Character in world where leadership is lacking and people have less faith than ever. Kudos Mr. President.

[daleo]

1. Tommy Douglas started Medicare, Pearson and Trudeau expanded it

Chretien deserves some credit for voiding the Iraq war.

Trudeau brought the Charter into the Constitution Act.

Pearson won the Nobel Peace Prize.

Paul Martin's child care program would have been a landmark piece of legislation, had the NDP supported it. That was a real lost opportunity.

[shockedcanadian]

2. agreement with childcare...

It would definitely be a major coup to have some form of extensive childcare coverage. Would be difficult to have approved in current economic climate even if it was still on the table. That being said, I have always felt if we implemented a small userfee, even for healthcare, say $2-5 every time someone visited a hospital or doctor, it would help support the system without really denying someone access (subsidy for those in desperate need and no means of course), I could envision the same thing for childcare in the future if some party would take on the cause.

[daleo]

8. Extra fees like that just discourage people from getting timely help

And are a nuisance to administer. It would probably cost more to administer that sort of fee than the revenue it would capture.

[ConcernedCanuk]

3. Obama a leader?

.
.
.

He's got a neet website

that's it.

USA is still at war all across the globe, while homelessness and lack of healthcare reign on the mainland.

LEADER?

I think not -

The last President that tried to "lead"

got assassinated. . . .

sumthing 2 ponder

:freak:

[HeresyLives]

4. Yes, several.

Canadians don't tend to praise PMs tho...until they're out of office. Suddenly they're wonderful.

[daleo]

9. Unless the PM out of office is Mulroney

I have yet to hear a regular citizen of my acquaintance wax fondly about Mulroney.

[HeresyLives]

10. Mulroney remains very popular.

I doubt any of your acquaintances are PCs.

[daleo]

11. Are there PCs anymore?

I thought their party was absorbed by the Reform Party, and they were dispossessed.

My acquaintances are of all sorts of political persuasions. I even voted for Mulroney. But in retrospect I think most of his policies didn't turn out well, and that he was personally corrupt. I give him some credit for South Africa though.

Polls have shown that Canadians haven't warmed to his memory, even two decades after his party was nearly annihilated in the 1993 election. I would like to see some support for your claim that Mulroney remains very popular.

http://v1.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071212.wmulroney1212/BNStory/National/home?cid=al_gam_mostview

OTTAWA — A new poll suggests only one in 10 Canadians believe Brian Mulroney is telling the truth about his business relationship with German-Canadian arms broker Karlheinz Schreiber.

[HeresyLives]

12. Of course there are.

In fact he could win against Harper any day you name.

[daleo]

14. I would like to see Mulroney challenge Harper

That would be very interesting.

[Spazito]

15. Just a heads-up, HL has been tombstoned...

so you won't get an answer, lol.

I figured it was only a matter of time.

[daleo]

17. On some subjects he was quite interesting

That's how it goes.

[iverglas]

19. anybody who'd like to tell me by PM what happened

I'm curious.

[Spazito]

21. I don't know exactly why but I know there was a pretty hot thread...

on Google and China that might have something to do with it:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4315686&mesg_id=4315931

HL was a self-admitted former Reform member and it seemed, sometimes, the former part got lost, lol.

[iverglas]

24. huh

In that thread I see him arguing with and mocking at least one person I know well to be a pretty scummy right-winger, from a quite rational and fact-based perspective. Not seeing much "Reform" about anything there ...

[Spazito]

25. When I referred to Reform, it was due to this as opposed to the thread itself...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=190&topic_id=28906&mesg_id=28909

HL was interesting, had more than a few debates on various issues but am not at all surprised at the tombstoning.

[iverglas]

27. oh, come on (edited)

That's a bit of a spin on that thread, that is.

I once joined the Liberal Party. I do hope I never get accused of being what that would make me if I hadn't had rather idiosyncratic reasons for doing that, that had nothing to do with the Liberal Party.

In the other thread, I'm still seeing a rational progressive Canadian jousting with some moronic right-wing cretins from south of the border.

[Spazito]

28. Whatever n/t

[polly7]

34. Mulroney, once labelled Canada's most hated PM?

The guy that pretty much sold us out? He was popular with the corporations and richest of the rich, yes ........ most ordinary people, not so much.

[polly7]

5. I think Pierre Elliott Trudeau was very much like Obama could be and probably is.

:)

Hated as he was by the west, he was dedicated to improving the lives of all Canadians and didn't give a rat's behind how many Conservatives or rich oil barons he angered. (He also gave us in Saskatchewan our only mountain lol). I don't remember much of him, but reading lately found out his career more or less began becuase of his support for the Asbestos strikers in Quebec against the giant company whose practices were killing them with asbestos dust so bad their children breathed it in every day of their lives. He stood up to the Quebec gov't who had back-stabbed the strikers and which was one of the main reasons for the call of separatism. People died during this horrible time, lost their homes, were rounded up by police and beaten to a pulp. His involvement in helping them was noticed and he entered politics.

Trudeau was good. He loved Canada and its people. Chretien would be my next pick. jmo.

http://www.history.ca/ontv/titledetails.aspx?titleid=21277

http://www.encyclopediecanadienne.ca/index.cfm?PgNm=ArchivedFeatures&Params=A2106

[CHIMO]

6. Michael Moore: Healthcare Bill “A Victory for Capitalism”

SHARIF ABDEL KOUDDOUS: President Barack Obama is planning to sign the main healthcare overhaul bill this morning at a White House ceremony. The legislation is seen as the President’s signature domestic priority and has been described as the broadest piece of social policy legislation since President Lyndon Johnson’s Great Society.


http://www.democracynow.org/2010/3/23/michael_moore_health_care_bill_a
http://play.rbn.com/?url=demnow/demnow/demand/2010/march/video/dnB20100323a.rm&proto=rtsp&start=00:14:01

Have a read or watch the piece. Victory for capitalism. Sounds like Harper to me.

[iverglas]

20. I don't get it

Victory for capitalism. Sounds like Harper to me.

Michael Moore sounds like Harper? Or the US health care bill does?

[CHIMO]

29. The Bill

Is a sell out. Same as the bank bail out.

Harper wants government out of pretty much everything. I presume you watched the video at the link?

[iverglas]

30. of course it's a sell out

I didn't watch the video, but I watched the half-hour interview with Michael Moore on CNN the other night, with old Wolf whatsisname, and have seen him other times during the whole horrible process.

I simply didn't understand what you had said, the way you said it.

The bill is what Harper would love to have if he could. Yes. Looking at it from our spot on the spectrum, it's the most hideous awful right-wing trash. Is it better than what they have down there now? Well maybe if it were all going to be coming into effect now (e.g. banning the pre-existing condition refusals universally, now). As it stands, not so much.

However, I have said forever that it is completely unreasonable to expect that they there could get what we here have with the stroke of a pen. We here sure didn't. It took decades here. And we weren't dealing with any sort of existing insurance system to be either tinkered with or eliminated, let alone the horribly complex and multi-player and profitable one they there have now. So the way we did it (hospital insurance first, some places before others, etc.) simply isn't relevant to their situation.

What's needed there -- everywhere there, in all sectors of the economy there -- is regulation. Health insurance, banking, broadcasting, aviation, absolutely everywhere. That's how good things start when you're starting from unfettered capitalism: with regulation of the private sector alongside growing public sector presence. The bill seems to be a matter of increasing public sector presence (and spending) very minimally, alongside the absolutely most minimal regulation of the private sector. One couldn't really have asked for anything less.

[iverglas]

7. good grief

Now, maybe there really is some substance to Obama, maybe he really is a social democrat or some such at heart, and maybe if we had him here he'd actually get to show some leadership and do some decent stuff. Maybe he really isn't just an empty shirt with a pretty face and a big ego.

As it stands, good grief. Why would we want a leader like him??

[shockedcanadian]

13. He's more than an empty shirt

I find him to be a leader based on his approach, he has a tough balance with ANY issue that he raises due to what appears to be a major philosophical difference in party opinions, yet, he soldiers on and makes the tough decisions. He makes these difficult decisions and throws caution to the wind; pushing this healthcare bill could cost him a re-election, but he has stood his ground based on the fact that it was the right thing to do, because it is what is right for those who cannot have their voices heard. I respect that. It is an issue that is a big divider, but as a nation so rich (even while going through tough economic times), it was high time they joined the rest of the Western world and had a more inclusive healthcare system. Ultimately, a healthy population is a happy population.

Personally I am a much bigger proponent of health education and prevention of illnesses before the onset, but regardless, people need to know they can and will receive healthcare treatment if they need it. Health is low on Maslow's hierarchy, if you live in a nation as rich as Canada, the U.K or the U.S, you should have this need met.

Another example would be president Reagan, though obviously a very different leader than Obama, from a far different side of the political spectrum, was in my opinion a great leader. I respected him because he lead by making tough decisions, and, regardless of whether you agree with the method or not, he stared down the Russians without a single bomb being dropped (he obviously dedicated alot of funds to the development of nuclear arms, this point I do take some issue with, however...). At the time, there was a real concern that Russia would drop a bomb somewhere, not exactly the Cold War of the 60's but worrisome nonetheless. The expansion of Communism essentially came to a halt. Historically speaking, during his time in office, the United States was never more stronger and possibly most respected globally. There is an argument that his presence is the reason Capitalism gained so much traction in former Communist nations.

[Clintonista2]

16. Your pal Layton always seems quite keen to cozy up to that empty shirt

Birds of a feather

[iverglas]

18. I suppose I must know you

Sadly, I don't recall.

Cozying up to whoever is leader of the great satan is generally a reasonably wise thing for a Canadian leader to do, except when it's necessary to denounce whatever actual evildoing they may get up to. I recall the Liberal Party taking lessons from Obama's handlers. Not sure what Layton has supposedly done.

I'd have voted for Obama, obviously. I'd also have wished I were voting for Kucinich, were I a USAmerican. Or even my man Joe, the brains of the bunch. I still wouldn't have wanted any of them running the show up here. I mean, unless there were a forced choice with Steve being the other one ...

[Clintonista2]

22. Why would it be wise for Layton to cozy up to the US president?

It's not like he needs a relationship with them. He's never going to be prime minister.

[iverglas]

23. nope, still no idea who you are

and even less interest in finding out.

I wish some of you Canadian (or do I presume too much?) "progressives" would take your act out for a stroll someplace actually progressive ... it would be such fun to watch ...

[Clintonista2]

26. Hey sweetie, it wasn't my party who brought down the government

paving the way for a Harper takeover. You can call yourself progressive all you want. You and your party are opportunists.

[iverglas]

31. haha

and what government isn't your party bringing down now?

:rofl:

[Clintonista2]

35. Hey, we tried back in the fall

As I recall, the NDP, terrified that they might actually have to ACT rather than screech, suddenly sang a different tune.

[iverglas]

36. yes, it's a fine dance

Maybe we could just not bother with this pretence that everbody isn't doing it, hm?

I'm not hearing any NDP voices screeching about how it's all the Liberals' fault blah de blah de blah blah blah ...

No party wants an election, largely because it seems the electorate doesn't. Duh.

[edwinmathews]

32. Trudeau

Would be some what in the same vein as Obama . How ever his web site that was suppose to track the stimulus spending turned into a mess and became the butt of late night show jokes as was the nobel peace prize . The health care bill has to go back to the house for yet another vote and is strongly disliked by the over whelming majority of Americans on the left and right .

According to several surveys Trudeau is now the most hated person and politician in Canadian history . I wonder how Obama will be remembered ?

edit for spelling

[iverglas]

33. truer than many think

Trudeau was economically right-wing, despite all that charming early unionista stuff. (Consensus is that he simply wasn't interested in that stuff. Obama has no choice but to be, or at least pay attention.)

Some of us are old enough to remember. "Wage and price controls", anyone? Wage controls, anyhow.

The tragic flaw of arrogance, that one they may share. Although Trudeau had more absolute confidence in the absolute rightness of every thought he ever thunk and every deed he ever did, I think.

I don't think that Obama actually has quite the intellect of Trudeau. Trudeau had an interesting mix of political savvy and political stupidity; Obama's recipe for that would be different, but still a mix. But then that's inherent in the politician breed, I suppose.

Trudeau did command attention everywhere he went, and was in it for the long haul. Of course it remains to be seen whether that will be true of Obama, or he will just be treated as irrelevant and become a one-hit wonder. Trudeau certainly had a significant and permanent effect on Canadian society. Again, Obama? we shall see.