The LU - Liberal Underground launches in Canada

[Chuckup]

A big thanks to the DU and members for the inspiration that resulted in:

Canada's Liberal Underground
http://www.liberalunderground.ca/

[mike_c]

1. best of luck for building a vibrant and active community....

:toast:

[brainshrub]

2. The front page looks to much like DU.

You should do your own design so that people do not get confused between the two sites.

Even with all open-source software for my site, it site still manages to have it's own look and feel. Trust your own creativity.

ON EDIT: Great site, BTW.

[Mist]

3. Congratulations!!!

I'm drinking a beer to your success! (and also because I just got in from doing some yard work!) May you be as successful as DU!:party: :party: :toast: :bounce: :party: :party:

[donsu]

4. great! I'll come visiting

nt

[MrPrax]

5. what kind of critter...?

Like 'liberals' or Liberals? I mean being a small 'l' liberal in the US is almost kinda risky, whereas in Canada, it wouldn't get you a Horton' double double? :shrug:

[iverglas]

9. well ;)

"Like 'liberals' or Liberals?"


Judging from the presence of these forums:

Liberal Policy
Discuss various issues related to Liberal policy

Election Readiness
Events, activities, contacts, riding profile,
links and related information for federal
and provincial riding associations

I'm going with the second option. Big L.

Guess that place'll have to be getting on without moi. I mean, unless somebody really wants to know my opinions of Liberal policy!

Speaking of riding associations ... damn good thing the gummint didn't fall, or the Ottawa Centre NDP might have had a tough question to answer: to nominate her, or not to nominate her --

http://www.tiffani.ca

No, that's not a porn site. It's the website of Tiffani Murray, a candidate for that nomination (had the Liberals been toppled, and with Ed not running again).

Imagine ... lawn signs and lapel badges that say TIFFANI in big orange letters.

I'm generally peeved at the habit of referring to women in public life by their first names ("Belinda", anyone?) where men are seldom referred to that way. The fact that women are unfortunateley more likely then men to have been assigned names that properly belong to poodles or bodies of water makes the practice even less wise. Belinda and Tiffani both might want to consider that sounding cute and cuddly not be as clever as sounding serious. Stronach and Murray had a debate in the House ... Belinda and Tiffani had a roll in the jello ...

I guess I'll have to get used to the prospect of being an oldster with doctors and MPs and bosses named Dylan and Jesse and Britny and Keisha, but I'm going to find it hard not to snigger.

Anyhow, no "Liberal Underground" for me, ta. Nor "liberal underground", should one happen to pop up. Someday, I'll get around to posting at Babble, and that'll be quite good enough.

[MrPrax]

10. Right Said...

Yes as you noted: Liberal Policy?

Unless the Board and others in the PMO are regularly posting, we will never KNOW what their policies are--and it's not like the Red Parlour Ubermensch care about what the rank and file think anyway in that party.

OHHHHhhhh...you don't like Tiffani!!!?

But according to her biography she was 'high school class president' and , quite unusual for a politcal candidate, involved in 'universities' student body governments'!!

Boy! If she could add Model UN and Model Parliament to her CV, then any sniggering about her name making her seem superficial would disappear

But, surely you are not insinuating she is another lightweight NewDem that harkens back to the halcyon days of the 'Two Audreys'?

But Belinda crossed the floor, now she and Helena could have a mud wrestling match.


Helena is a good old-fashion name ;-)

[iverglas]

11. *two* Audreys?

Whom am I forgetting?

I'd just been thinking of the one Audrey in the last few days.

Stronach's vacuous "policy" statements brought her to mind. Stronach simpers on about being in favour of reproductive rights and marriage rights and various other basically, um, motherhood issues ... and it all amounts to just self-promoting window dressing. It's all "I am", not "I will do", and I expect a little "will do" from my politicians. A little substance.

She put me in mind of some VJ I saw on TV a few years ago, who was about to have her own comedy show series. She was apparently under the impression that if she kept repeating that her show was going to be really really funny, and then laughing loudly, she was funny. Well, she really obviously wasn't funny.

When I saw McLaughlin at an all-candidates for the party leadership way back when, I was less than impressed at the standing ovation she got for saying she would defend women's reproductive rights (as one example).

Well, fuckin duh. I mean, saying that she wouldn't defend women's reproductive rights would certainly call for boos and rotten tomatoes and ouster from the party, but saying that she would hardly merited a standing ovation. "World peace, and same-sex marriage". Oh, and that global warming stuff, isn't that awful?

If all we needed elected representatives for was to tell us about themselves when somebody sticks a mike in front of their face, we may as well not bother having elections. A pageant format would be more entertaining, and less expensive.

Somebody has obviously given Stronach the impression that what she believes is a matter of great import and makes a good substitute for political or economic analysis, or vision, or commitment, or knowledge or experience. Me, I can't imagine finding myself quite that interesting, or expecting anyone else to. I expect that people will expect me to present them with some kinda policies, and some reason to think I might know how to go about implementing them. But then, I didn't grow up filthy rich.

And hey, cut with the pin-up pix of bottle blondes! That one gave me such an urge to get out the scissors, shampoo and a bobby pin that my teeth will be on edge all day.

But as to the rank and file of the big red party -- an interesting point you raise. Young Liberals in particular do tend to have such an inflated view of themselves, in my direct experience, that they are suckers for anybody who treats them as if they matter. Liberal policy conventions, for instance, really are love-fests for the little buggers; they caucus and lobby like mad, and they are courted by whoever's wanting something. The thing is that they're all so focused on their careerist ambitions -- be they electoral or intramural, as party officers or political employees -- that they're just playing along, because they know as well as anyone else that the "policy" crap is all just window-dressing, and a showcase for their own talents and a way for them to make the appropriate connections.

But the party does it well. Recall two years ago when I was courted at dinner (by the obvious though unstated Martin backroom boy) to join the party ... so that I could work to get Alan Rock the top job, thereby doing what I thought best for Canada (keeping Martin out). Keep your enemies closer, and all that. Make the tent big, make 'em feel wanted, and hold enough circuses where they can feel influential, let them have the odd Alan Rock or Warren Allmand, and they won't be on the outside trying to blow the tent over.

Heck, the Conservatives could really learn some lessons if they paid attention. ;)

[Catt03]

6. Good luck

Nice :applause:

[MrPrax]

7. OK...I checked it out

I registered as a user, but probably should have checked it more thoroughly--it IS dedicated to the Liberal Party of Canada policy and wanking.

DU is interesting largely because of the monolithic nature of the US two-party system, so they have more leeway to provide a 'big tent' to liberals, leftists and Progressives.

LU is probably doomed unless it provides the same 'big tent', which is unlikely

[Hoping4Change]

16. Hi MrPrax. Where did you find that it is dedicated to the Liberal Party?

If the Liberal Party is behind this copycatting then I'm effing mad.

[tuvor]

21. Link, please.

And thanks.

[iverglas]

24. easy directions

Ya click on the link in the opening post, and then on "Discussion Forums" up at the top.

As I said in post #9:

Judging from the presence of these forums:

Liberal Policy
Discuss various issues related to Liberal policy

Election Readiness
Events, activities, contacts, riding profile,
links and related information for federal
and provincial riding associations

I'm going with the second option. Big L.

Seems kinda obvious when you see that.

[BloodForOil]

8. Good Luck

Now I'm definitely moving to Canada lol

o well can someone just quicly explain how the political parties work in canada... Conservatives fairly obvious i guess... liberals are centrists..? Labor is probably to the left, eh?

lol

[Amonester]

12. We have a new couple on our street from NC.

I noticed their car's (a Honda Civic) plate's from NC for the first time about 3 months ago. Didn't get any chance to talk to them yet (and perhaps I won't), but they seem to enjoy what this relatively "quiet" (not in the "variety of cultural discoveries" sense...) city of Montreal. The drawback is (well I think it is) that we do have really cold winters which seem to never end (at least for 6 mo/yr); I'm not saying that long and cold winters are not enjoyable for everyone (lots of winter sports and outdoor activities), but I, for one, much prefer the May-October (bright) periods over the November-April (dark) ones.

Anyway, there are so many people who seem to remain indoors for much of those dark days, that once the brighter days start hiting the calendar, the cultural events, sporting events and all (it's also the big touristic season), seem to spread around all over the place.

All in all, it's a good place to be. And it can be a lot better if you can speak (and/or read) anything in French also. I have close relatives of mine in FL. It'd be harder for them to live here due to the big differences in the climate, but we are ready to help them make the move if they ever decide they'd be better off here anytime.

Bienvenue :)

:beer:

On edit: Changed one "that" into a "which" as an attempt for some better clarity.

[BloodForOil]

17. Well I live in England

but I'm nearly bilingual in French and I'd definitely prefer to live in Canada than over here cos all that ever happens is it rains lol.

It rains perpetually, and in winter it gets dark quite early, it's such a boring country lol. Oh well.

Thanks for the info

[Amonester]

23. You are welcome!

I would really LOVE to see London, Manchester, and Liverpool (on sunny days)! ;)

J'AIMERAIS vraiment voir Londres, Manchester et Liverpool (lorsqu'il fait soleil)!

The Spring season has been terribly rainy here so far too, and it seems it's only today that the sun is beginning to shine (it's about time!).

La saison printanière a été terriblement pluvieuse jusqu'à maintenant ici aussi et il me semble que ce n'est qu'aujourd'hui que le soleil a commencé à briller (enfin!).

The next big thing that's coming up around here is "Le Grand Prix du Canada 2005" in Montreal, June 12, 1700 GMT 1300 Hrs (Local time). Each year, it's one of the biggest (if not THE biggest) "party" of all.

Le prochain grand événement à se produire ici sera "Le Grand Prix du Canada 2005" à Montréal, le 12 juin, 1700 GMT 13h00 (heure locale). Chaque année, c'est un des plus gros (sinon LE plus gros) "party" de tous.

People who don't know any French can live a pretty good life in this town anyway. Three Universities, Colleges, Schools, Hospitals, Arts, and shows; for nearly half a million of -- unilingual as well as bilingual -- English speaking citizens feel comfortably at home here.

Les gens qui ne connaissent pas le français peuvent vivre une très bonne vie dans cette ville, de toute façon. Trois universités, des collèges, des écoles, des hopitaux, des arts et des spectacles; près d'un demi million de citoyens anglophones -- unilingues autant que bilingues -- se sentent confortablement chez eux ici.

Welcome!
Bienvenue :)

[Amonester]

13. And yes (I forgot) ;-)

Well, I'm not an expert but I'll try my best here (IMHO):

Liberals (L): Centre Right. I'd prefer Centre Left but I don't want the...

CONservatives (C): Right. Leaning on the Far Right since the "merge".

New Democrats (NDP) : Centre Left. If only I was sure they'd win...

Bloc Quebecois (BC) : ?????? (They could never govern, only oppose).

[BloodForOil]

18. thanks

Oh well in England we have

Conservatives (Far right)

(New) Labour (Right, they used to be a center left party but Tony Blair has pushed them strongly to the right although there are still a few lefties from "Old Labour" in there, but I guess except on foreign policy they are to the left of the US Democrats)

Liberal Democrats (Center Left, but they only have 1/10 seats in the house of Commons)

Those are the only ones with more than about six seats in 650 or something.

[Canuckistanian]

42. We don't have a "Labor" party

That's the OTHER English-speaking non-American country that borders the Atlantic - Great Britain.

We have the NDP (New Democratic Party) as our true progressive party.

[Hoping4Change]

14. As a Canuck I say that this royally sucks. I think it disgusting to copy

another website hook, line and sinker. I think it also disgusting that it is named Liberal Underground. Who are you trying to bamboozle? I'm supposed to believe this isn't a creation of the Liberal Party? Give me a break. What is wrong with Rabble .Ca as a progressive website. I think DU should sue for infringement.:mad:

[Spazito]

19. Well, they say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

I don't have a problem with it, I would assume if the admins of DU do, they will let 'Chuckup' know.

As to whether this is a creation of the Liberal Party, I have to wonder what evidence would cause you to believe that?

As to Rabble.ca, I think there can be more than one political website without a problem. If the site is a good one, it will flourish, otherwise it will languish.

[Hand]

15. Well, I'm registered there now.

Same username, same sig line. And I've even made the first post in the Atlantic Canada forum:

http://www.liberalunderground.ca/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=24#24

Big deal, me.

[KamaAina]

20. The Liberal Underground is not affiliated with or funded by any political

party... so it says at the bottom of the home page.

But... what would've been wrong with an even more DU-like name, such as...

New Democratic Underground???

[blue northern]

22. After checking out the site mentioned, my thoughts are this.

I welcome the birth of another site in Canada to discus progressive politics.
However, the front page is obviously an almost exact replica of dear old DU's.
I did a whois search and the site was registered May 19 by a Mr Will Leroy of Lower Sackville NS.
http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/whois.ch?ip=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.liberalunderground.ca%2F

On the bottom of the front page there's a disclaimer:

The Liberal Underground is not affiliated with or funded by any political party.

If this is true, and Mr LeRoy has no connections with any political party, I hope that DU might go light on him if he agrees to change his layout immediately to make it clearly distinctive from Democratic Underground's.
If he's a little guy trying to give liberals and progressives a voice up here, he shouldn't be sued into silence if he agrees to change the format post haste, IMHO.
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, right?
This could be the start of an even greater international community of progressive minded people. That can't be bad, can it?
A knee jerk reaction might not be called for here.
I really enjoy DU and would love to have something like it here that wasn't an exact replica, but with a sense of community and fellowship with this board.
On the other hand if this site is a front for the Liberal Party of Canada I hope DU comes down on them like a tonne of bricks.

[oblivious]

25. No, imitation is not "sincere flattery". It's lazy and cheap.

I can't believe they would copy the DU format like that. The only way you could justify this is if LU is a subsidiary of DU. If they did this without the support and encouragement of DU it's just plain wrong.

I have no confidence in someone who would do this and would not participate in their forums.

[HEyHEY]

27. Takin' it a bit hard aren't you?

[oblivious]

30. Well, I guess if the owners of DU don't care, I don't care.

But I don't think copying someone else's work is sincere. I still say it's just lazy. And well, yes, cheap.

[Chuckup]

33. Temporary I can assure you

The design was temp, sort of a tribute to the DU for the inspiration. I can assure you we have a unique design, and should be ready to go by the end of the week.

Also: absolutely no connection with any political party.

Thank you!

[iverglas]

35. curious

Also: absolutely no connection with any political party.

That's an answer to a question that wasn't really asked.

Obviously it isn't "connected with" the Liberal Party. It wouldn't likely just licence the name out to anybody with a website.

But are you perchance asking/expecting NDP or Conservative Party riding association types to hang out at the site talking about their doings?

Liberal Policy
Discuss various issues related to Liberal policy

Election Readiness
Events, activities, contacts, riding profile,
links and related information for federal
and provincial riding associations

That's a capital "L" Liberal in the url, right?

[iverglas]

37. and oops, you lost me anyhow

I'm not gonna register and log in just to *read* the forums.

Although, given how appropriating my name seems to be becoming a popular pastime among right-wingers on the net (and I gather you're getting some right-wingers there, which is why I wandered over to look), maybe I should, just in case.

Or maybe you would promise me not to let anybody but me register with my name. ;)

Really, who would want an iverglas at a Liberal site?!

[Maple]

26. Whoooo! What a bunch of grouchs!

The NDP already has a site called Rabble.ca , so do the Conservatives at Free Dominion.com...more than time to have a Liberal one.


Lighten up folks.

[tuvor]

28. I agree.

(ON EDIT: Sort of. I think I misread your post the first time.)

But using "Liberal" in the URL wasn't the best idea.

What's wrong with, say, "progressiveunderground.ca"?

[Maple]

29. Because we have

another party called the Progressive Canadians. It's actually the old PC party, but they're not allowed to use the word 'conservative' anymore.

[HEyHEY]

32. Yeah, "Liberal Underground" conjures up images

Of men in trench coats handing out brown envelopes stuffed with cash.

Oh wait!

[iverglas]

36. wha'??

What's wrong with, say, "progressiveunderground.ca"?

"Progressive" actually means something. (Despite the efforts in the US to dumb it down by substituting it for "liberal", which was already an idiosyncratic use of that term.)

A website for Liberals is not a website for progressives. I'm a progressive. I am not a Liberal (or a liberal).

Please don't urge yet another unqualified group to go appropriating my identity!

;)

[tuvor]

38. Wha', yourself! ;)

I thought LU was trying to avoid big "L" liberal connections.

Frankly it seems they haven't really decided what they want to do, and jumped the gun in announcing their arrival.(Chuckup, if you're reading this, care to comment?)

Sorry for getting "liberal" and "progressive" mixed up. I assumed there was a significant enough amount of overlap.

[V. Kid]

40. I'd say there is....

...personally I think of progressive as a catch all term encompassing left-liberal, social democrat, socialist, left-libertarian (or anarchist) thought. I just consider it a better term, as all of those specific ideologies are rather rigid alone. Generally I'd consider myself a social democrat, but I have a lot a lot of places where I'm more of a liberal (good old J.S. Mills), with some (socially related) libertarianism and heck even a few bits of principled conservatism thrown in to counter the bits of libertariansm (!) (but not to much or else I'd be an oxymoron)...so calling myself progressive is just easier to say.

[trebizond]

31. A lot of freeper types seem to have infested it already

[Maple]

34. Yes, they need to

start ejecting some posters.

[V. Kid]

41. Yeah but are they're going to need...

...to have some pretty stringent standards on doing that. Cause clearly there are going to be some pretty big crticis of the Liberal Party brand. And that in itself is going to create some intresting discussions.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

39. I've registered and posted over there just now

Nice to 'see' some fellow DUers there too. :)