Schoolgirl, 13, arrested after sub-machine gun found in her wardrobe

[onehandle]

Source: Daily Mail

A 13-year-old schoolgirl has been arrested by armed police - after they discovered a sub-machine gun in her wardrobe. The teenager was taken into custody yesterday afternoon after the M16-style rifle - capable of firing up to 900 rounds-per-minute - was seized at a flat in Croydon, South London.

Around 15 officers carrying sub-machine guns, hydraulic battering rams and combat shields raced to the address after hearing reports of the weapon on the estate.

'We pieced together the information we had and decided to act immediately in case the firearm was used. 'The people of Croydon need to know that if we get this information we will act as swiftly as we can to take these guns off the streets.

'If you mess around with weapons we will be at your front door and you will come face to face with an armed response unit.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1201435/Schoolgirl-13-arrested-sub-machine-gun-wardrobe.html?ITO=1490

[melm00se]

1. damn

Doesn't the UK have strong gun laws?

[derby378]

17. Sure do, but apparently they don't work so good

A 13-year-old girl with a full-auto M16? Damn.

[applegrove]

68. How horrifying.

[TheWraith]

19. Incredibly strict gun laws, yes.

Registration, certification, approval by police, restriction of magazines, no handguns at all, no allowance for self-defense, two character references, approval by a doctor, --so many laws and ways to refuse ownership that new gun purchases are considered de facto banned in the UK. Not that you can buy a sub-machine gun anywhere outside of the government or the third world.

[Bankhead_ATL]

2. WTF x10000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[slackmaster]

3. Those British cops don't fuck around

It sounds like a bit of an overreaction to me.

K&U

:kick:

[IntravenousDemilo]

8. They certainly don't.

Overreaction? Ah, but you jest.

[Buzz Clik]

12. It's an overreaction because teens have no history of violent use of weapons.

errr.... wait....

Nevermind.

[melm00se]

9. overreaction?

how do you propose they enter a flat with a machine gun somewhere on the premises and presumably someone who would use it (else why have it?)?

M-16 magazines can loose 25 to 30 rounds in an awfully big hurry and they make an awful mess of a human body when they hit and can penetrate certain kinds of body armor.

[AtheistCrusader]

27. I'll paint you a picture.

Grandpa bought it legally. Put it away. No ammo, no magazines. Just the rifle. Gramps died. Without a complete review of every scrap of the home's contents, the rifle may have sat there, from pre-ban days. Kids are notorious for rooting through things, and may have found it. They may have left it completely alone, but talked about it, hence the police getting wind of it.


Obviously, when something like that is illegal for posession, and you don't know the intentions of the owner when you come to confiscate it, you must take precautions. However, the officers sound a bit... hoo-rah about the whole thing. They may very well have terrorized a 13 year old for no real justifiable reason.

[melm00se]

42. wow

"pre-ban" days?

in the UK that would have been pre-1937 (and in the USA, pre-1934)

Did they make M-16's back then?

[AtheistCrusader]

44. Incorrect.

The M-16 was not banned in the US in 1934. The requirements for purchasing one are simply more stringent. (Background check, registration, $200 tax stamp, periodic inspection) Please review the 1934 National Firearms Act.

Not sure if the UK banned them in 37 or not, but based on your error regarding US law, I suspect there may have been a legal avenue for someone to initially come into posession of the rifle in question.

[TheWraith]

36. How about knocking on the door and serving a search warrant?

Unless you think that a 13 year old girl is really going to open fire on the police with no provocation.

In any event, I have SERIOUS doubts about this story. More than likely, we're going to find out that this was an airsoft gun, or a replica, or something of that nature. In which case, I regret to say, the police will NOT be sued for their lives, because the UK has very few restictions on police power and protections of personal rights against things like unreasonable search and seizure.

[AtheistCrusader]

45. Or arrest the girl outside the home.

Then kick down the door and search.

She's not going to leave her house with an M-16 in her lunchbox. It's almost 3 feet long.

[slackmaster]

48. Nobody was being threatened with deadly force

Just a 16-year-old girl with an illegal rifle and no ammunition, not threatening anyone.

Yes, it was an overreaction.

[polmaven]

18. Um,

Overreaction????? WHAT?

[onehandle]

34. Damn jackbooted thugs and their concern for public safety!

Maybe they should have knocked politely on the door and offered gun safety lessons to the 13 year old girl.

[slackmaster]

49. You are half right

They should have knocked politely on the door, asked for the rifle, then taken it and the girl into custody.

[virginia mountainman]

4. One of the effects of strong gun control...

If guns must be smuggled in, may as well smuggle in machineguns...

[Paladin]

5. So Glad You're Amused By All This........ (n/t)

[redqueen]

7. What amusement? (nt)

[N7255Q]

10. Another gun-free zone that isn't.

...

[Buzz Clik]

15. Making guns illegal doesn't make them non-existent.

What a strange comment.

[Buzz Clik]

13. That's your take on this? A 13-year-old has this kind of weapon, and it's because of gun control?

Maybe Ann Coulter or Rush Limbaugh can inject something reasonable into this conversation.

[virginia mountainman]

43. I am saying;

That since the gun bans in the UK, machinguns are now much more common...

If you going to smuggle in guns, may as well smuggle in machineguns...

[Javaman]

62. Yeah, because pistols are so much harder to hide...

:eyes:

[Endangered Specie]

71. Most submachine guns are quite compact... not much bigger than a pistol...

even the SAME size as a pistol.

[LeftishBrit]

72. 'since the gun ban in the UK'???

There has been strict gun control in the UK since at least the 1930s, and we have never really had a gun culture in the American sense. There was some tightening of the gun laws after the Dunblane murders, but not at a level that even affected most people in Britain. The idea that the evil British government 'took our guns away' is an exasperating ethnocentric stereotype, on the level of some Brits who think on the basis of TV that all Americans are cowboys or gangsters.

[Steerpike]

6. Well blimey!

She must be a spy like Mr Bond. It will be interesting to hear where she got this weapon.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

11. Atta Girl!!

[Buzz Clik]

14. Yep. You captured the moment. It's funny.

:eyes:

[Aviation Pro]

16. Dollars to donuts that it was hidden by the "gang member"....

...further odds on it being an Airsoft weapon like this:

[onehandle]

32. I bet it was a super-soaker.

I don't have any evidence to back that us, so I am obviously full of it.

[Renew Deal]

20. At least she got to keep her pickup truck.

:silly:

[Piewhacket]

21. hmmm... I'm no gun control whacko, but ...

SOME limits are reasonable (even in the US). Certainly, knowledge
of the ILLEGAL possession of weapons can result in a DEFENSIVELY
ARMED response to seize the weapons.

However, some of the comments by the police are
deserving of admonition (disciplinary review and rebuke).

Particularly this hyped-up testosterone induced Rambo-style whackout
attributed in the article to Sergeant Darin Birmingham:

"If you mess around with weapons we will be at your front door
and you will come face to face with an armed response unit."

[JayMusgrove]

23. I don't think that's a comment filled with testosterone...

Customs and laws regarding guns in the UK are very strict. And the manner of response to someone with illegal guns in the UK is to take them in safely, with armed arrest, (as opposed to a little chat about a traffic offence).


Just as police here would say, "if you rob a bank we will arrest you", that's what this guy is saying.

Croydon, in Surry, is a suburban area of Greater London.

[Piewhacket]

47. Sorry to disagree,

He could have said "if you rob a bank we will arrest you", but didn't.

My command of the English language suffices to understand what the officer
is reported to have actually said, which I quoted. What was meant is subject
to interpretation, which is why the officer should be admonished to shut the
fuck up and let trained official spoke persons do the talking (not that it
always helps).

On the merits of the response I will agree that a DEFENSIVELY armed response will
NORMALLY be appropriate in the case of the seizing of illegal weapons, even in the US
(where we have a second amendment that apparently actually means something -shock!).

Additionally there is also the possibility, under proper circumstances, for an AGRESSIVELY armed
response, but ALL responses should (must) be proportional, including in the UK where
'strict law' does not automatically equal 'lethal response' or 'overblown response to get
media attention',

I cannot overemphasize the significance of a failure of a society to contain police powers.
Surely as a DUer you must understand that such bounds are not a matter of 'fun and games'
but of grave political importance. If you do not see that, you have missed the true peril
of the last 8 years and the true pretext of a 'war on terror', and to some extent may miss
future and continuing peril.

So here I suggest that any police officer who indicates, through incautious remarks, that he does not
comprehend this BASIC principle of his legal authority, and because nonconforming conduct by police
is INTOLERABLE in a democracy, be admonished lest end up a criminal instead of a police office or
he provide a bad example for impressionable young officers who might otherwise turn out to be,
in a refreshing turn of events, good cops.

Thanks for your comment.

[Recursion]

22. Was it a rifle or a submachine gun?

And does the reporter understand what "cyclic rate" means and why it's not the actual rate of fire of the weapon?

[Akoto]

24. Does it really matter?

The weapon, which is easily capable of tearing through people and (as noted upthread) some types of body armor, was in the possession of a girl who was thirteen. That's setting aside the fact that its very presence violated the law.

[AtheistCrusader]

26. Actually

the article is a bit more than hysterical about identifying the weapon. Possible the weapon has been sitting there, unused, no ammo, since pre-ban days. Possible the actual owner of the weapon died long ago. It could be de-milled. Many possibilities.


Side thought, my father gave me my first .22 when I was 10. Only pop cans and paper targets died.

[Akoto]

30. Other people aren't you or your father, though.

And that still sets aside the fact that it's an illegal weapon where she resides. I find it hard to believe that she wouldn't know of a rifle being in her wardrobe. Somebody had to, or the police wouldn't have shown up.

[polmaven]

38. Well sure,

'cause a .22 hand gun and an M-16 high powered rifle are roughly the same.

[AtheistCrusader]

39. No, a .22 long rifle.

The velocity of .223 is much greater, but the cross section, and mass of the bullet are little different.

Please stop saying Sub-Machine-Gun. The M-16 is an Assault Rifle. It does not fire pistol rounds. The Daily Mail needs a capable editor.

[Posteritatis]

54. So accuracy stops mattering when it's a sufficiently panicky subject? (nt)

[AtheistCrusader]

25. If it's an M-16, it's an Assault Rifle. Not a Sub-Machine Gun.

SMG's fire pistol rounds. The M-16 is a select fire weapon in .223, an Assault Rifle.

M-16 'style' makes me wonder if it's an AR-15, which is not an Assault Rifle, being semi-auto only. Just because the safety moves to position 3 or 4 does not mean the weapon is actually select-fire, depending on when it was made. I'd need about 30 seconds to dissasemble it and see...

[onehandle]

31. Oh thank God!

It may only be an assault rifle.

Now we can safely ignore the story.

[AtheistCrusader]

33. He asked a question, I answered it.

No reason to be a dick.

Clearly it's illegal for posession, and she no longer posesses it. Situation resolved.

[onehandle]

29. I see "schoolgirl, 13" and "gun" in the headline.

Others parse the semantics to depress how shocking the story is.

[Recursion]

40. I owned two guns when I was 13

So it's not a shocking idea to me. Obviously I don't condone breaking England's gun laws.

I asked because the reporter's contradictory reports ("submachinegun", "assualt rifle") made me think the reporter didn't actually know what the gun was.

[AtheistCrusader]

46. We 'depress it' because it's obviously crap journalism from stem to stern.

http://www.thelondonpaper.com/thelondonpaper/news/london/croydon-girl-13-held-after-m16-assault-rifle-found-in-her-bedroom

That's a real news article. No hysteria. Just facts. Weapon correctly specified and identified. The possiblity it may be a non-functional replica also specified.

How 'shocked' will you be if it turns out to be a non-firing replica?

[T_i_B]

59. "real" news article?

The London paper is not a proper newspaper, which is why it is given away free every evening. it's also owned by Rupert Murdoch. Like the rest of the London free press, it tends towards stories about footballers wives and what Amy Winehouse had for breakfast.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_London_Paper

[AtheistCrusader]

63. Ok, but that piece looks like actual journalism

where the Daily Mail article is hysterical nonsense. I don't care who owns it. I don't care what the paper normally reports. That specific article was properly done.

[AtheistCrusader]

65. TLP has a picture of the weapon now too.

Looks to be a toy. If it's real, it's an AR-15 converted to a pistol, and the buffer tube is broken in half. It might fire once, before you're wearing more pieces of the firearm.

Probably a toy.

Edit:

Forensic experts have begun examining the weapon to find if it had been successfully converted to fire bullets.

The gun was discovered hidden under clothing at the house and one line of inquiry is that the girl did not know it was there.

One source close to the investigation said a large number of people, some with suspected gang links, had access to the property.

A Metropolitan Police spokesman said: "The weapon is believed to be a replica, but we currently await results of a forensic examination.

[slackmaster]

52. Neither - Apparently it wasn't even a firearm

http://www.thelondonpaper.com/thelondonpaper/news/london/croydon-girl-13-held-after-m16-assault-rifle-found-in-her-bedroom

[Scurrilous]

28. She don't like Mondays. n/t

[Coventina]

35. My first thought as well. All I can say is, if I had access to a gun when

I was 13, people would have died for sure. The age of 13 was a living hell for me, I was bullied mercilessly. Now, I know that this is projection, but because of my personal experience, the thought of a gun like that in the possession of a 13 year old gives me the shivers.

But for all I know, she may be a very happy, well-adjusted girl without a single grudge or enemy in the world.

[No Elephants]

37. What's the flap? Submachine guns don't kill people. School girls do.

Enroll the gun in school.

[tocqueville]

41. stop fucking believing the Daily Heil

http://www.thelondonpaper.com/thelondonpaper/news/london/croydon-girl-13-held-after-m16-assault-rifle-found-in-her-bedroom

1) it's a replica of a M16
2) it's not sure it can even fire anything
3) the real owner, 19, is in custody

Next time check the Daily Heil for a headline like

"Lesbian Cannibals take over the BBC"

[NickB79]

50. Wait, its a damn BB GUN?!?!?!

:rofl:

"The replica of an M16, the rifle used by the US army in Vietnam and capable of firing 900 rounds a minute, was found during a search as part of a pre-planned raid at an address in Tedder Road, Croydon.

Forensic experts are examining the weapon to discover if it has been converted to fire bullets."


It sounds like the Airsoft plastic-pellet guns you can buy for $40 at Walmart!

[slackmaster]

51. Well, that was fun while it lasted.

Thanks!

[Posteritatis]

55. I actually figured that it was an airsoft gun or something. (nt)

[T_i_B]

60. I wouldn't trust The London Paper either if I were you

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_London_Paper

[brendan120678]

53. But I thought guns were illegal in the UK! How did it get there? (nt)

[Myrina]

56. Many's the time when I was that age ...

.... that I wish I'd have had one ... those are the absolute worst years of any female's life.

[beevul]

57. Interestingly...

The authorities have been listening to the brady bunch, it would seem, and taken a liking to thier um...verbiage...

"The people of Croydon need to know that if we get this information we will act as swiftly as we can to take these guns off the streets."


I doubt very much that any street runs through the girls wardrobe. Sounds nice for the public though...or something...

Consistant with what the brady bunch and thier few crooked followers mean when they say "taking guns off the street" though.

[caseymoz]

58. The Daily Mail made it sound like the 2nd coming of Columbine

More than likely, it was her adult brother who placed it there.

And, of course, it might actually be a "replica." They mean a toy, right?

[T_i_B]

61. Why is this in the UK forum instead of the Gungeon?

Seriously, if I wanted gun bores I would visit the Gungeon.

[AtheistCrusader]

64. OP probably wanted to bury it after he realized it's probably a replica.

If you look at the original emtpy placeholder thread, he asked to move it here instead of someplace more sensible, like the gungeon.

I petitioned it to be moved to the gungeon, but nothing happened.

[LeftishBrit]

66. And if I wanted sensational and inaccurate articles from RW tabloids...

I could find them all too easily, without going to a liberal board for them.

[applegrove]

67. Think how many guns there are in school that the authorities do not know about.

The NRA should be shamed for promoting guns. They lead to nothing but destruction.

[LeftishBrit]

69. This was in the UK, and she didn't take it to school

Like most Brits, I'm no gun fan; but I'm also no fan of our tabloids and their sensational journalism.

[muriel_volestrangler]

70. Confirmed it's a replica; no charges

The police were led to believe a firearm was at the premises and decided to act for fear it may be used in the borough.

But having seized the weapon, forensic tests revealed it was a replica.
...
All three people arrested have been released with no further charges.

http://www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/news/local/croydonnews/4509895.Assault_rifle_found_in_Selsdon_is_replica/