So what do we think of this EU situation then folks?

[Hopeless Romantic]

I am deeply concerned at the apparent lack of democracy in the EU.

All the power seems to be concentrated on people who are not elected.

The people seem to get very little say in anything and even when they are allowed ballots they tend to be ignored unless they give the desired answer.

[mr blur]

1. All we need is Bliar to be President

just to complete the picture.

[muriel_volestrangler]

2. The largest amount of power is with people who are indirectly elected

ie the heads of government (or heads of state, in a few cases) of the member states. For all that the president of the council will be selected, not elected, he (or she) won't actually wield votes in the way the national leaders do.

However, it may be a problem that people elected to lead a national government (mainly as party leaders) are also wielding the votes in the EU; and the selected Head of the Commission still has a lot of day-to-day control. Ironically, if they did set up a more democratic structure, the Tories, and others, would complain the EU was becoming a superstate.

[mackerel]

3. Curious as a friend of mine from NI insists that the UK

wants out of the UK altogether.

This is his opinion:

The overwhelming sentiment within the UK is to get out of the EU, thats why these rotten to the core corrupt bastards are busting a gut to get their horrible undemocratic deal done before the traitorous Labour Government is turfed out on its hole next May.
They'll agree to anything to ensure the will of the UK people isnt sought in a Lisbon Treaty referendum as promised by the Conservatives and scandalously refused by Labour despite a manifesto pledge to hold one.

***************

Any truth to it?

[Hopeless Romantic]

4. I have some sympathy with that

there is a reason why the British public has not and will not be allowed a referendum on Lisbon.

[T_i_B]

5. The EU is certainly unpopular in Britain

I don't think there's any way around that.

However, people tend to vote on European issues more at the European elections then the General election. That's why the UK Independence Party does very well in the European elections and not so well the rest of the time.

[mackerel]

6. But why? I think the EU is one of the great things to come

out of Europe since WWII it's a great unifier. There's starting to be talk about something similar here in North America.

[T_i_B]

7. Where to start?

The EU is remote, out of touch with people, not nearly democratic enough, not nearly accountable enough, is responsible for the ridiculous Common Agricultural Policy, poses a large threat to national sovereignty, produces huge quantities of red tape and is something of a gravy train to boot.

On the plus side, we do get the single market but how many people actually realise the benefits of that?

Oh and you already have something similar in your continent. It's called NAFTA.

[TheBigotBasher]

10. Hmm.

The EU is remote, out of touch with people, not nearly democratic enough, not nearly accountable enough, is responsible for the ridiculous Common Agricultural Policy, poses a large threat to national sovereignty, produces huge quantities of red tape and is something of a gravy train to boot.

It is for Ministers and their Euro MPs to be in touch with the people not the EU.
The Council of Ministers are from elected Governments.
Agreed - the CAP is stupid in many many ways. Actually more than that it is an Africa killer.
Agreed on sovereignty - which is why the EU should respect pooled sovereignty and not enforced removal of it. The veto should remain.
As for red tape, it all depends on definition. France and Germany have much looser definitions of EU laws than the UK. So we should blame th Civil Service not the EU.
Agreed on the gravy train - something the NeoNazi Griffin now benefits from.

[T_i_B]

11. "It is for Ministers and their Euro MPs to be in touch with the people not the EU."

I very much disagree with that, and furthermore I would also suggest that it's that sort of attitude on the part of the EU that makes it so unpopular in the first place.

Any organization that makes laws needs to be in touch with the general population, and if the EU is out of touch then it will not be making laws that meet the needs of the people of Europe.

[LeftishBrit]

13. Agreed.

Also there are a lot of bureaucratic rules that are often applied with a lack of knowledge and understanding of particular situations.

There is also lots of resentment of the open borders and free migration between EU countries. A lot of this resentment is based on pure xenophobia whipped up by the tabloids, but there is also a genuine problem of businesses making use of EU migrants to keep labour costs and wages down.

Despite all this, I am tepidly pro-EU, because it's better than some likely alternatives: e.g. ending up again as the 51st state to another George Bush; or hard-right nationalism with laissez-faire-economics. A few years ago, Dan Hannan (yes, *that* Dan Hannan) praised Iceland for staying out of the EU and thus being able to pursue Thatcherite free-market economics without regulation. Yes, and see what happened there.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

8. I agree with much of what muriel said above

UKIP and the Tories like to have the best of both worlds, they complain that the EU is undemocratic and protest any moves to make it more democratic.

The idea of European union is a good one but it is poorly implemented because national governments don't want to lose the real power to an elected supranational government.

The attitude of the Labour government to the EU is that it should not gain more democracy or power, but merely become a body that eases the flow of finance capital. Any notions of convergence are entertained when it is seen as beneficial to the economy.

Despite what their grassroots desire or expect, the Tories cannot walk away from the EU. The City benefits from the EU and if New Labour can't go against the City's wishes, it's doubtful the Tories would.

[oldironside]

12. It's not often I read a post I agree with 100%...

... but this is one. Well put.

[BooScout]

9. There's a good description of what is going on....

It's called Totalitarian Democracy....if they don't like the way we vote....they make us vote again until we get the vote they want....and they only let us vote on the things they want us to vote on.....if it sounds familiar.....take a gander at political history and think about the Nazi's or Stalin.