Romford scouts investigated over anti-Jewish chants

[clear eye]

Source: The Guardian

Members of explorer troop shouted 'kill the Jews' at veterans during remembrance parade
Matthew Weaver guardian.co.uk, Friday 13 November 2009 14.14 GMT

Dressed in full uniform, the explorer scouts, who were taking part in Remembrance Sunday service in Romford, Essex were heard to repeatedly shout "Let's kill the Jews" at Jewish second world war veterans.

...witnesses said the racists chants were started by a boy believed to be 15 years old. One of the troop has since come forward and been interviewed by police. He has been ordered by the Scout Association to visit the rabbi of the Romford and district synagogue to apologise in person.

The county commissioner of greater London north-east scouts, Dean Jefferys, issued a letter of apology to the synagogue. He said he was "shocked and appalled" and that all scout members offered their "most sincere and profound apologies".

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/nov/13/romford-scouts-anti-jewish-chants

[Ozymanithrax]

1. Appologize?

His membership and any awards should be revoked.

[clear eye]

3. That's one of the things I thought when I read it.

I wondered why he was still a Scout. There really is a difference in attitudes toward anti-Semitism between the British and the Americans. I think in all likelihood he would be out of the troop if this happened in the U.S., either immediately or in response to community demands. (Think the outcomes might be reversed if the scout shouted "Kill the gays!")

[Ozymanithrax]

6. I think there is a merit badge for shouting kill the gays in the US.

It would be called free speach.

I enjoyed the scouts when I was young, but I've learned a lot since then.

[LeftishBrit]

11. They probably will be!

[T_i_B]

15. If that had been my old troop....

That kid would have been kicked out on the spot.

There is simply no excuse for being disrespectful on rememberance day.

[ret5hd]

2. Dean Jefferys ... said he was "shocked and appalled"...

"We reserve this kind of hatred for the atheists and gays!"

[clear eye]

4. You're thinking of the U.S.. This happened in Britain. n/t

[ret5hd]

5. Ahhh...that's what I get for skimming and speed-reading at the same time!

[LeftishBrit]

10. In Essex, which is stereotyped as containing more than its share or our rightwing dimwits

I deplore all stereotypes, but incidents like this don't help.

Romford's MP is Andrew Rosindell, one of our most right-wing Tories, noted for his obsessions with restoring the death penalty and detaining asylum seekers. He is strongly against gay rights; and (unusually for a British politician) preoccupied with upholding the Flag. In one of his election campaigns, he was accompanied by his Staffordshire bull terrier in a Union Jack waistcoat.

It is so heartwarming to know that there are plenty of youngsters who will be ready to step in his shoes when he retires!

[T_i_B]

16. Your average Rosindell supporting wingnut would be really appalled by this

as such folk consider Rememberance Sunday sacrosanct.

So even by the standards of Romford (which I personally consider Greater London rather then Essex, but maybe that's just me being snobbish) this is really low.

And on the subject of Scouts and Essex, it's worth noting that the best MP in Essex, Bob Russell is a very vocal supporter of the Scout Movement.

[Dutch]

17. And funnily enough Russell is also a member of Rosendell's parliamentary flag group.

[LeftishBrit]

18. Fair enough; I was a bit peeved by the implication that all of England accepts such behaviour...

and therefore perhaps put too much emphasis on the fact that this happened in a right-leaning area.

It may be that the boy was not even really committedly pro-Nazi or antisemitic but was just trying to be as shocking as possible, by making these vile statements in public on Remembrance Day. Some teenagers do go through a stage of trying to shock and offend the adults. In this case, he succeeded very well in being shocking!!! I hope he improves with age - I have known a few people who stayed as outrageous nasty teenagers for life.

[T_i_B]

19. I was just thinking of the RWer's I've come across in that neck of the woods

Even if South Essex RWer's can be frightful anti-immigrant bores, they do tend to have standards when it comes to remembering Britain's war dead. It's less likely to be the area of Romford that's the problem here then the boy's own family.

[muriel_volestrangler]

7. British Scouts have dropped the official discrimination against gays

http://www.flagscouts.org.uk/?page_id=2

though they still require an oath to a god (the nearest they get to a change from that is 'duty to my Dharma' for a Buddhist), so you're still not meant to be an atheist scout:

http://www.scoutbase.org.uk/library/hqdocs/por/2005/1_5.htm#rule_1.1

[fascisthunter]

8. the scouts always creeped me out

I know there are good aspects to it, but from my point of view, it is crawling with fundie weirdos.

[defendandprotect]

9. k i c k

[Trajan]

12. Where is this learned ?

WHO the fuck really cares if someone is a Jew, or a Gentile, or an Arab, or a Turk, Russian, Armenian, Eskimo, Lithuanian, Brit or American ?

We are all HUMAN ! ....

It is pitiful what is taught to children; Passing down familial hatreds like they are worn out coats ....


You've Got To Be Carefully Taught

You've got to be taught to hate and fear

You've got to be taught from year to year

It's got to be drummed in your dear little ear

You've got to be carefully taught


You've got to be taught to be afraid

Of people whose eyes are oddly made

And people whose skin is a different shade

You've got to be carefully taught


You've got to be taught before it's too late

Before you are six or seven or eight

To hate all the people your relatives hate

You've got to be carefully taught

[edwardian]

13. Thanks for the exquisite

indictment of racism in prose and rhyme. It takes a poet to show those who don't know it.

[struggle4progress]

14. Not LBN: this happened last Sunday. It seems an isolated incident, with only one child involved,

and apologies were offered immediately. Why is a jackass adolescent international news?

... Scout county commissioner Dean Jefferys has delivered a letter of apology to Romford and District Synagogue. He said he was "shocked and appalled" and said all scout members offered their "most sincere and profound apologies" ... http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7016665&mesg_id=7017055

... Andrew Marks, chair of the National Jewish Scout Fellowship, said: “We have never experienced or come across any antisemitism in the scout movement and we have been shocked and astonished by this. We believe this is an isolated incident by a boy who has said some things which were totally deplorable and disgusting but there needs to be a modicum of understand that this is an isolated incident” ... http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7016665&mesg_id=7017063