TURN C-Span on right now they are discussing the fraud

[GingerSnaps]

They are discussing the fraudulent election.

D 202-628-0205
R 202-737-0002
I 202-628-0184


CALL IN AND USE ALL LINES!

[Paradise]

1. thanks. n/t

[merbex]

2. Exit polls need defending

The American public needs to understand that exit polls are the first defense against fraud

They are the first red flag

[ReneB]

3. Cliff Arnebeck said...

that in some counties kerry votes went to bush`s votes.

[mostly_lurking]

4. Did he offer any proof of that? n/t

[ReneB]

5. nope n/t

[zann725]

67. He's saying they feel that the 'outcome of the Election' will change!!!

This is a LEAP beyond just the "F" word! SOOO exciting! Arnebeck is quite credible and logical and clear-speaking.

If we can only get him on other news shows...or excerpts from this interview.

Thanks for letting us know it was on-air. Yahoo! We're rolling!
:kick: :bounce: :toast:

[jamboi]

85. See http://jamboi.mydd.com for Arnebeck interview transcript.

[bleever]

101. Thanks!

[nascarblue]

6. I can't believe Kerry finally grew a sack!

This is awesome! I guess they were waiting for the votes to be certified!!

[senseandsensibility]

7. Fill us in !

Grew a sack? Is Kerry's representative on the show? Give us the details, please!

[GingerSnaps]

9. Damn, damn damn damn damn * is going to get kicked out

OMG They are fighting for our rights. The lawsuit will be filed tomorrow and the "World" is involved!

[senseandsensibility]

12. Thanks for responding!

Who is fighting for our rights? Is Kerry's lawyer on the show?

[Niche]

80. I missed your icon Ginger Snaps! Look at your beautiful baby!

That's enough holiday cheer right there just wrapped up in a tiny soul!!! Ahh so pretty.

[Paradise]

11. No, not Kerry's rep. Guest said it is a grassroots effort

with information and analyses coming from around the world.

[electropop]

51. Not a Kerry rep..

the guest was Arnebeck of the Green/Libertarian coalition. He did a pretty good job of explaining that the evidence he has so far indicates that the margin for Kerry in OH is about what is now claimed for Bush.

[roseBudd]

90. Cliff is from Alliance for Democracy, he was a speaker at the Jesse

Jackson rally in Cincinnati.

He said at that rally that Kerry votes were switched to Bush votes in Southern Ohio.

[bunny planet]

18. Kerry always had a set, and he's got the shrapnel in his leg to prove it.

[libertypirate]

43. Without Kerry's set we would have never known about Iran Contra

It takes a set to put yourself in the crosshairs willingly. A big set.

[KansDem]

58. Agreed! "Sets" are like money and intelligence...

Best kept hidden and brought out only when necessary! ;)

[Carolab]

8. I loved his responses

especially to that stupid woman from Virginia who called Democrats whiners. Cliff handled it beautifully, "we're not whining, we're litigating" and discussed the need to discover the facts to see what really happened and to discover the true intent of the voters. Cliff was excellent. Spoke to the law and the Constitutional guarantee to have our voting rights protected. He covered the suppression as well as the exit polls and the evidence of "vote shifting". Very cool-headed and clear.

[GingerSnaps]

10. Rethugs are going nuts!

I heard that nut case and she was fighting mad. Did she sound like a crazy woman or what?

Expect a fight because they want their boy in even if it's against the constitution and it's fraud. We know that it was a fraudulent election but they don't care.

We are the true Americans!

[senseandsensibility]

13. I'm glad they're going nuts!

Cuz that means we hit a nerve! Who could possibly be against counting all the votes? Except for BIG FAT cheaters, that is.:)

[zann725]

61. Let me guess, these same people applaud fair election in Ukraine!

n/t :crazy:

[Paradise]

15. What about the guy, earlier, who seemed to be threatening

when he said 'I'm not going to let you get away with this; I'm not going to let you do this.'.

All they want to do is to get THE TRUTH, whatever that may be!

No one should ever be afraid of the truth!

[ginnyinWI]

100. these kinds of guys will have to go along with it, if

and when Bush has to admit it and concede the election to Kerry. (Wow did it feel good typing that!)

[The Flaming Red Head]

37. I wonder if some of them are fearful of indictments? nt

[Carl Brennan]

53. Bing, Bing, Bing. You are on to something there.

:toast:

[electropop]

54. The Virginia kook was very encouraging to me

The panic in her voice is indicative of what repukes all over America will soon be feeling. And as a fellow Virginia resident, I apologize on behalf of Virginia.

[Verve]

76. There will be panic, shock, hysteria. It always happens when you

come out of denial! Their holier-than-thou leader will begin to be preached about as the Anti-Christ in disguise! HA! HA! HA! I can't wait for their discovery!

[eomer]

14. Cliff Arnebeck is just the spokesperson we need

He comes across as very professional and answers objections clearly and carefully. This is just what we need... a careful, accurate and professional presenting of the facts. That's the way to win over those who may be skeptical but would care if they actually knew the facts.

[sce56]

16. Clifford O. Arnebeck, representing the Alliance for Democracy

http://dispatch.com/election.php?story=dispatch/2004/11/25/20041125-D1-03.html

Clifford O. Arnebeck, a Columbus attorney representing the Alliance for Democracy, said he has testimony from poll worker Liz Kent, of Warren County, asserting, "There was no way the actual vote could have been as reported."

Arnebeck’s group plans to join several others in contesting the results in the Ohio Supreme Court. Two third-party presidential candidates plan to formally request a recount.

[Paradise]

17. thanks for the info. :) n/t

[Carolab]

19. I was a little confused about the challenge though

I thought it was going to go down today, and Cliff said yesterday. He did say there was no need to wait until Monday for certification and they are going to treat the county certification as numbers that can be tallied and audited quickly.

[eomer]

23. Another excerpt in rough form:

Someone asked (was it the moderator?) why wait so long for the legal challenge?

Arnebeck explained that the challenge was not ripe until the election was certified. He said that there will be objection that the challenge is actually too early - that it cannot be made until the SOS certifies on Monday. But they are going forward now based on the argument that the SOS certification is just a formality of adding all the votes certified by the counties.

[Aries]

20. Alliance for Democracy...cool

Speaking as a member, they are a great organization:

http://www.thealliancefordemocracy.org/home.html

THE ALLIANCE
IS A NEW
PROGRESSIVE POPULIST MOVEMENT

--- not a political party ---

setting forth to end corporate domination,
to establish true political democracy,
and to build a just society with a
sustainable, equitable economy

[Carolab]

33. WOO HOO

Thanks for that info. I didn't know and I will most assuredly now check it out.

[eomer]

21. A rough transcript of one exchange:

Arnebeck made statement that Gore actually won in 2000 and that a media group got together after the election, did a recount and found that Gore actually won.

C-Span moderator said, But I thought that the recount showed that Bush would have won.

Arnebeck responded that the recount showed that Bush would have won if only the counties requested by Gore would have been recounted but that when all votes in the state were re-examined that Gore was the winner.

[rman]

24. wasn't the 2000 Florida recount *stopped* on demand of the Fed. court,

even though it was no business of the federal court but rather one of the state court?

what's the value of an incomplete recount?
why would anyone refer to it as though it was a completed recount?

[eomer]

27. Arnebeck was referring to this recount:

Florida Ballots Project

A group of the largest news organizations in the United States selected NORC to provide the definitive picture of the Florida ballots in the uncertified presidential election of November 2000. The media group chose NORC for this work because of NORC's long-standing reputation for nonpartisan, objective, and analytically rigorous data collection and analysis. Kirk Wolter, NORC’s Senior Vice President of Statistics and Methodology and Professor of Statistics at the University of Chicago, has directed NORC's effort on the project.

http://www.norc.uchicago.edu/fl/index.asp

They created a database containing every ballot and the condition of its chads. Then they ran nine different scenarios of which counties were counted according to which standard. They multiplied the nine scenarios times two agreement criteria (majority vs. unanimous) for a total of eighteen different possible results. Gore won under most of them, including the one where you counted all ballots.

[understandinglife]

46. Precisely and thank you for posting the reference!

"I Declare The 2004 Election Invalid: Someone I do not know was prevented from voting"

[Carolab]

26. Yes that was great

I wish he would have gone further and explained about Gore's "missing" 16,027 votes in Volusia County. Would have added extra weight to Bev's efforts in Volusia.

[bones_7672]

22. Caution

Just because a lawsuit is filed doesn't mean a judge has to grant it. And Blackwell will certify the election on Monday.

[sce56]

25. Caution is RIGHT after all with all of the publicity starting to leak out

about the possible rigging of the election the only way for them to fight back would be to have a reason to declare Martial Law! Didn't we just recive a threat from Bin Ladens partner! Those types are usually followed up with an attack!

[Niche]

79. They've stacked the courts...

look what just happened in NV. The judges just throw things out and shut people up. I can't take IT!!!

[The Flaming Red Head]

28. Market Research caller is BS ( he said they over polled women)

Market Research caller is BS ( he said they over polled women) would these be the so-called Security Moms?


If you had waited in line three to five hours at a precinct to cast your vote would you stay on and participate in a survey, NO.

And Dems are more likely to be working class non-salaried individuals which would mean that they had to get back to work to get on the clock.

I did marketing research interviews for over 20 years and have done many random participation intercepts; and the Dems (in this case) would have been the hardest group to get adequate participation from, especially the women because they have so many responsibilities, and after waiting in those lines, you know they had to get home to the kids, or back to work, or both.


And then the Republicans, also say that the so-called security Moms are the ones who swung the vote to Bush, according to part of the exit data (which part?) which would make his comment about over sampling of women and that swinging the data to Kerry, Moot.

You know you can't have it both ways, either the data gathered, was good or it wasn't, you can't pick and choose which numbers suit your purpose at the moment.

(I know I posted part of this on Gen dis poli board, but I didn't know the conversation had moved here. Sorry if you already read part of this)

[eomer]

29. Now that you mention the exit polls...

Arnebeck said that they will be seeking to get the exit poll data as part of the discovery process in the lawsuit.

[GingerSnaps]

30. I heard that

How do they account for the past election polling when they were right on the money with the amount of votes for each candidate?

Republicans are so damn stupid and UnAmerican.

[Razorback_Democrat]

31. And How Do They Account For Ukraine Exit Polls Proving Fraud?

I mean how come OUR exit polls were wrong, but Ukraine's exit polls were right on and prove fraud?

up is down, east is west, north is south in ****world

[The Flaming Red Head]

34. It is weird

especially since I think they would have tendency to under sample Kerry voters given the examples I presented in my original post.

[BR_Parkway]

45. But ours were right, they "proved" * won on Moral values

[SueZhope]

32. C-SPAN Fraud show?

Do they have this archived on there web site?
Is this show going to be replayed?


Thanks to any one that might have an answer
I would to see this

[eomer]

35. This morning's Washington Journal now available online

at this link:
http://www.c-span.org/homepage.asp?Cat=Series&Code=WJE&ShowVidNum=6&Rot_Cat_CD=WJ&Rot_HT=205&Rot_WD=

[Flint-oid]

39. Thanks for the link. Everyone should watch

Cliff said Kerry should win by the same margin Bush currently has

[floridadem30]

40. thanks for the link

[Winamericaback]

64. Thanks for the link

LOVE cspan and them showing their programs on the web.

[Karenca]

36. I missed it too, but the show will be repeated---I dont know the exact

time, but I think it will be back on in the evening?

[floridadem30]

38. I missed it but please post repeat time

[Solitaire]

41. I guess I missed it too...repeat? n/t

[merh]

42. Oh boy, bet you the weed has to take a few belts today!

Thanks for the post! I will try to catch this later today!

I'm so excited, I can't work. Time to work, but can't -- :bounce:

[intheflow]

44. "time to work, but can't."

Story of my damn life! LOL!

[SueZhope]

47. Cliff Arnebeck is a hero

I'm listening to
Cliff Arnebeck
on the web archive

He is my new hero this is music to my ears...
(I should be working also.LOL)

Know there is some creepy caller on
saying that he is invalidating our president
"him and his kind"bla bla bla

Jeez......why is it that people are getting so upset
when we have people looking for truth
if everything was kosher and fraud free why would they care
they would be happy to have them prove that
there man is legitimate

wow this lawyer used to be
a Republican

[merh]

48. Hey, will you share thelink to the audio stream with this

Duer that should be working? ;-)
This election fraud is driving me :silly:

[SueZhope]

50. link

Here it is :
A must stop working to see

http://www.c-span.org/homepage.asp?Cat=Series&Code=WJE&ShowVidNum=6&Rot_Cat_CD=WJ&Rot_HT=205&Rot_WD=

called
Cliff Arnebeck, Counsel in Lawsuit Challenging Presidential Election in Ohio

[merh]

52. Thanks so much - I can't wait, where are my ear phones .....

:bounce:

[proudtobeadem]

70. Now that is what I call "fair and balanced" !! Go Cliff Go !!!! nt

[StephanieMarie]

77. Write to Cspan and thank them:

[e-mail]

Here's my letter:

I loved your spot with Cliff Arnebeck on the vote fraud in Ohio! Thank you for covering what most of main stream media is afraid to touch. Our democracy is at stake, and WE NEED THE TRUTH! Please continue to keep us informed in Ohio, Florida, and wherever the sanctity of the election process is in question.

[glitch]

60. They get so upset because their leader is so easily invalidated

what with being invalid and all.

I love waking up to this sort of thing, it's better than coffee!

[SueZhope]

74. thats funny Glitch

.... need my coffee also but this comes close

I would really get excited if
CNN would have this lawyer on there
most watched news show....

He ain't no Tin Hatter.....
and he speaks the FACTS
not SPIN...this guy would wake up the
clueless American people who no nothing about the
possibility that they have been coned
once again

[BR_Parkway]

87. * "invalidates" himself if he doesn't publically support

making sure each and every vote was counted. Needs to be repeated over and over and over (Hanitize it) until everyone in USA is saying the same thing.

[googly]

49. If Boosh is inaugurated on Jan20th, I hope it still is not too late

to remove him from office is it? Because the litigation
might take some time, and repugs will try to run out the
clock. Stay tuned.

[electropop]

57. Nixon was inaugurated in 1972...

and fell from office nearly 2 years later. Be patient and don't worry about artificial 'deadlines' such as certifications, electoral college meeting, etc. Truth is a strong disinfectant and soaks right through that stuff.

[zann725]

86. Yes, but he didn't have THIS Congress & THIS Supreme Court

I'm rooting for a victory, but am hoping the lawyers figure out a way 'round' the clearly-stacked System.

[anamandujano]

107. Arnebeck said "3-pronged approach"

This was the part that made me happiest.

1. litigation
2. the press will be kept informed--they actually came through in 2000 by counting the votes after the supreme court stopped the count--a statewide recount showed that gore won.
3. the public will be kept informed and so be able to scrutinize the decision makers and thereby provide a control on the decision makers

They are also working on stopping the artificial clock.

[Matariki]

55. this is great, thanks to linking to the archived show

link again:
http://www.c-span.org/homepage.asp?Cat=Series&Code=WJE&ShowVidNum=6&Rot_Cat_CD=WJ&Rot_HT=205&Rot_WD=

[Catherine Vincent]

59. Did you hear that guy call in claiming he's a national guardsman?

Did he think everything would be halted because he said he won't stand for it? What a dickwad!

[intheflow]

69. I know a Bushbot National Guardsperson.

She might have been calling in and disguising her voice. It certainly represented her opinions verbatum.

The scary thing is, they actually believe they're being patriotic by being sheeple. She believes there is biblical basis for her giving * absolute and unquestioning loyalty. Poor little blind sheeple! They are to be pitied for being so ignorant, really.

[intheflow]

56. Holy Sh*t! He said they have proof of fraud!!

They have proof that votes were switched! Hurrah!!!

Olbermann needs to get this guy on his show.

And, yeah, the repugs sounds scared as hell. And they're calling us whiners? LMAO!!

[mary195149]

62. This is the best news so far,

and they are going to keep the public and the press informed!!!

[pointsoflight]

63. Can you summarize what was said? Would be appreciated.

[intheflow]

66. Basically that the statistical analysis indicates that

votes were moved from the Kerry column to the Bush column. He said this could have been done in three ways, but of course I can only remember one (too many drugs in my youth, sorry). Here's the one I remember--excel spreadsheets could have been manipulated, just type in one number for the other, or switch column headings.

This is based, I think, on raw exit poll data. Other people have covered this all in this thread. If you read it all, you'll get a very complete picture of what was said.

[Catherine Vincent]

65. Another thing,

I think everyone knows this moderator is a repub. He questioned the guest on his comment about Gore winning Florida and said that their sources said GWB won Florida. The guest had to correct him and said Gore did win Florida when the whole state was recounted.

[googly]

99. I feel for Gore, he won yet never became president.

[genieroze]

68. Finally

This is sweet

[zann725]

71. Our new bumper sticker: "We're NOT whining, we're litigating!"

What a great quote from Arneback, in a hard-hitting interview on CSPAN.

Maybe this should be our new re-count slogan?

[Helga Scow Stern]

89. Sign me up. I'll take a bunch.

[saracat]

93. Naturally . I want one!

[Karenca]

72. ITS ON NOW AGAIN N/T

[Ms_Mary]

73. Damn! I don't have cable at the store! nt

[StephanieMarie]

75. Anyone have an email for Cliff so we can thank him?

nfm

[Verve]

84. [e-mail]

[Niche]

78. DAMN IT! Does anyone know if they'll re-air it?

Just turned on and it's over. Will it air again, is there an email or phone to request a replay? :cry: :cry:

[sepia_steel]

96. Ahhhhhhhhhh

What a breath of fresh air. Hope renewed! Mr. "I won't let you get away with it" and "I'm not gonna stand for it" made my day.

[jamboi]

81. Must have missed it. not on anymore n/t

[budkin]

82. Someone please encode and post on web!

Thanks in advance! :-)

[understandinglife]

83. Seattle Times: Two groups vow to contest election

For those freaking on the 'numbers from OH' I urge them to just focus on what we all DO now to support those groups who are going to save our franchise and force a fair and valid election is all that matters.

Here is the link to the Seattle Times article (and please note that if you do a google search on 'Arnebeck election fraud' you will already see 255+ hits; 5 days ago you might have gotten a link to something at dKos or here)

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/20021068...

By Steven Thomma
Knight Ridder Newspapers

2 December 2004

"WASHINGTON -- Ohio counties yesterday certified election results showing that President Bush won the pivotal battleground state Nov. 2 and with it a second term. But disgruntled groups alleging vote fraud planned to contest the statewide result and demand a recount.
One coalition plans to seek a recount. Another plans to file a lawsuit with the state Supreme Court today contesting Bush's victory.

Official results from Ohio's 88 counties were sent yesterday to Secretary of State Ken Blackwell. He is expected to certify the tally Monday showing that Bush won the state.

The challenges are proceeding along two tracks."


Peace.

"I Declare The 2004 Election Invalid: Someone I do not know was prevented from voting"

[buddysmellgood]

88. Arnebeck is amazing. Unflappable. Our robot for democracy.

[GingerSnaps]

91. People are so happy at my College

The ones that watched C-Span this morning helped me spread the word. Professors were laughing and several of them turned c-span on for people in their classes.

[understandinglife]

94. Oh yes in_deed -- the people are ready to launch. We will prevail.

[mirandapriestly]

103. that is great n/t

[saracat]

92. I hate to be gloomy, but while I think this is wonderful

C-Span isn't MSM. Few people watch C-Span. But it is a step in the right direction!

[Oak2004]

109. From DU to the blogs, from the blogs to alternative media, from

alternative media to CSPAN, from CSPAN to ??? :D

Hehehehe

They may yet find a way to inaugurate the Criminal in Chief, but any expectations of legitimacy, and with it national and global authority, are drip drip dripping away fast.

[Stand and Fight]

95. kick

[Lone_Star_Dem]

97. After having listened to the whole thing

I can see yet another reason for the delay in the certification of Ohio's votes. They could not file suit until it's certified. I hope that all goes well for them tomorrow. I imagine the reason they are advancing a bit early is that they now have the full county numbers.

This should prove to be enlightening as they plan to keep the media abreast of their efforts. That's if the media is receptive of course. :)

[KatieB]

98. Here's the link

Cut and paste the below link and then click on link to Washington Journal with today's date (12/2/04) GO 34.01 minutes into the video by sliding the dot on the bar.

http://www.c-span.org/homepage.asp?Cat=Series&Code=WJE&ShowVidNum=6&Rot_Cat_CD=WJ&Rot_HT=205&Rot_WD=

[bush_is_wacko]

105. I can't get to the site!

This is driiving me crazy! I'm currently sitting here w/ c-span on listening to * give some ridiculous speach!

[hlthe2b]

102. Dear God, I needed to see this.... I'm in tears just thinking that there

is still hope.... While I give BBV and others their due, we desperately needed a second, third and fourth track!

[Stand and Fight]

104. One word:

Wonderful!
:toast:

[proudtobeadem]

106. kick

[Wordie]

108. Kick