Shutting down the internet?

[Stahl]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6671443/

also this, "Bush pressed for more net security":
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/TECH/internet/12/07/tech.security.reut/index.html

Some alarming things: Homeland Security, "terrorists and criminals" (defined how, exactly?), "experts", implications that government control in home computer security is required.

Considering the MSM news blackout, attack on bloggers few weeks ago and the necessity of current US administration to restrict and control one of the last truly free and independent media to stay in power after stories of vote fraud is starting to break out, I can't say this comes as a surprise.

I have paranoid feeling about this.

[New Earth]

1. there's only one option

get them the fuck out!!!!!! (overturn this election)

[TexasChick]

2. Exactly, Faye! It's do or die for us!!! America, where are you? I miss

you! You were once great but now have been hijacked by these fascists! We are going to die trying to save you!

[neversaynever]

10. WE MUST DO THIS n/t

[DustMolecule]

3. "Funny" this last paragraph of the MSN article

"It’s an economic war we are in right now," Solomon said. "It’s no longer about the bombs. Cyber attack is the economic war they are trying to have on us right now -- to change our way of life, affect our economy and destroy our nation. That’s what they want to do."

I see that happening daily alright. However, I don't think it's being caused by "cyber attacks".

[Triana]

41. Repuke Scare tactics to justify...

...their takeover of the internet and your home computer.

bu$hit!

[eomer]

4. But if they shutdown one of the "internets"

we'll just switch over to one of the other ones.

[New Earth]

5. LOL

[SmokingJacket]

6. I'm convinced they're working hard to figure out a way for people

to pay more for internet access. They'll call it "cyber-security" but it'll really be a way for corporations to get even richer.

The free nature of the internet drives them nuts. Free in both senses of the word.

[carolinalady]

7. Remember after 9/11 they shut down the "internets" n/t

[vpigrad]

8. The Internet2 already solves this problem!

On the I2, the government controls all access to/from it. That's why it is a safer and better place. Al Gore was a genius for promoting the I2, but there hasn't been enough of a push to get it to completely replace the old Internet.

[BlueEyedSon]

13. Gov't control of acces to the 'net is a GOOD thing?

I don't think so....

[vpigrad]

20. Yes it is.

Just look at the amount of spam and viruses and untrue articles on "news" sites. I've heard Al Gore make a good case for the I2. He really convinced me.

BTW, he used the analogy of the I1 being like a bunch of cow paths that grow into roads without any design. The I2 is more like the interstate ststem where access to and from it is controlled. The interstates are much safer and faster than the poorly designed rural roads. The I2, with its oversight, will be safer and faster.

[BlueEyedSon]

21. I guess you're right, gov't control of the media has been such a boon

for freedom of speech and accuracy of content (i.e. news)

[renaissanceguy]

37. Hello 1984.

You should read Orwell's book. Government-regulated and edited news was a huge part of it. Quite prophetic.

--------------------------------
Kerry REALLY won Ohio and the election. Buy Recount, anti-Bush, and liberal stuff at www.cafepress.com/liberalissues

[mattclearing]

24. That sounds terrifying.

Safer and better because the Government controls all access to it?

This is why we don't have national health care.

The great thing about the Internet is the democratization of information.

Introducing government control into that will result in failure, unless the manufacturers change the machines and everyone stops using their machine, goes out and gets a new one and no one writes software or manufactures machines that get around the security processes.

Chances of that happening? Pretty slim.

Internet 2 will fail if it is government controlled, because no one will use it.

[vpigrad]

33. Sigh

> Safer and better because the Government controls all access

Yes, and Al Gore pushed it for years because of that. Are you claiming he is wrong? You'll have a hard time convincing anyone of that.

> This is why we don't have national health care.

But we should. When children are dying by the thousands because of the medical cartel, the government should do something to break them up.

> Internet 2 will fail if it is government controlled, because no one will use it.

I wouldn't call it a failure now. I have several friends that almsot exclusively work on the I2 and only use the original Internet for a few things like Google. When you can download 1000x faster (at their particular workplace) on the I2 than the I1 and the colleges you work with and other businesses you work with are all connected to the I2, that's what you'll want to use.

[mulethree]

45. Al's wrong

I suspect your friends like it because only universities and labs and such are connected to it. No morons, no commercial crud and - hopefully - netiquette. Most of it is 622 Mbps which is common on regular internet backbones and large data server connections. It uses TCP/IP just the same but with IPV6 addressing.

The current benefits are
. It's speed - fine if you have grants to pay for it, who - outside
a supercomputer center or large internet service, needs 600mbps
WAN? Thats 5 HDTV signals with no compression, it's 20X the
speed of a fast hard drive.
. It's limited nature - smart people and lack of commercialism

. The government controls access to it because they pay for it.
. The government controls the keys, but your friends don't notice
because the government isn't restricting them.
. When you finally get it to your home or business, it will be
provided commercially and the government may control keys but
the locks and access will be on commercial ISP's. The
government will be able to censor you, monitor you and trace
you. Until you find a nice gateway that's on both internets
and route through it assuming the gateway's key code.
. The commercial services will have an easier time of charging
you and taxing you by the bit-mile.

But whats new? The government can already tap into commercial ISP routers to censor and monitor you. They can already cut you off at
any time.

This I2 is currently just a 1986 internet with fast connections. It was real nice when (nearly) all the discussions were meaningful,
and the best downloads were Gopher-located research documents. A real adult environment without the XXX junk. It kept me up all night just as well as the modern internet does. Great for learning and getting science work done, but I think that's due more to the braintrust connected rather than the 4X speed advantage over a regular lab or university conection.

[neversaynever]

9. It's not paranoia

Here's another article, from computer weekly
http://www.computerweekly.com/articles/article.asp?liArticleID=135706&liArticleTypeID=1&liCategoryID=2&liChannelID=22&liFlavourID=1&sSearch=&nPage=1

(sorry, I don't know how to shrink the URLS)
What you're saying is a legitimate fear. Cf. Patriot act. (For example, could people who are pushing for UN intevention against RUmmy w/ re Abu Ghraib be considered "enemy combatants", "terrorists"?). I am reminded of the NYT article that came out the day *after* the NYT article decrying the allegations as "internet conspiracy theory" (I've lost track of those URLS), but basically what it boiled down to was that the Pentagon is developing a NEW internet, designed for military use (wasn't this internet originally a military project).

The thought occurred to me: I might wake up one day, logon to this site, and find that it--together with everything else on the Net--has been replaced by an entirely different "cyberspace".

At any rate, it was at that point that I began making HARDCOPIES of relevant posts.

:tinfoilhat:

[keepthemhonest]

11. yeah then how would we communicate without the net

I know what sites would be investigated first. Don't you?

[carolinalady]

14. strategically located bon fires--SMOKE SIGNALS

Everybody start practicing.

[neversaynever]

15. welll let's hope Skinner et al will be willing to release

"raw data" concerning membership on certain sites (which shall forever remain unnamed)}( (providing of course individual members agree).

[keepthemhonest]

31. good idea

did we include our phone numbers when we registered ,
if not maybe we should.

I feel like for the first time since I've been on this site like I need a tinfoil hat

[sce56]

50. They can do what ever they want to do because they can!

Read what they did to IndyMedia
http://www.indymedia.org/fbi/





lie = repug

LB=Killer

[dmac]

36. At the risk of you thinking I am nuts

I do worry about this! I feel the Internet is the most powerful weapon against them and they know it! I already believe (now you will have me in one of those hats you always talk about) that from time to time certain sites are disabled - and not by our servers. I experience strange things on my computer from time to time too - very strange, inexplicable things.

Look at the work you guys out here in DU land have done and are doing to help throw these jerks out! The internet itself is a threat in that we have instant info at our fingertips - but even more dangerous to them is our ability to communicate with each other - the power in numbers. We would lose some of that power if say, someone decided that someone there was a post on the DU site that threatened National Security, so they seize the site, shut it down pending Government investigation . . . then DUers move to alternate sites which also begin to get seized - domino effect - they are "chasing a group of terrorists" and that is all they would have to say and bingo - our links to one another are gone.

So while we may joke about alternatives, we may seriously need to consider some. Because no matter what, we have to remain a group if we are ever going to stand a prayer of defeating them on any level.

[mattclearing]

27. I agree with your sentiment, but...

I have to say that it would be extremely difficult, but not impossible to pull off. There are too many routers out there not subject to Government control. They would have to get Verizon et al. to shut down IP traffic.

Even then, with wireless traffic, you can have an airborne internet...think a network of wireless routers.

Worst case scenario, this could be made into an underground railroad of information.

Anything they do can be undermined. Just like Napster, the Internet is almost impossible to control.

[neversaynever]

30. Thanks....

I'm assuming you know more about the technology than I do and hope your reassurance is right...I'm pretty much "internet illiterate" -- back when it first went public, I was one of those people who opposed it, was afraid it would lead to gvt control, etc.

But I certainly have NO problem admitting how WRONG I was about that!

I'll take your word on this one!

[mattclearing]

40. The Internet is essentially a bunch of computers connected together.

An intranet is simply a miniature Internet in a single spot. The more computers you connect, the bigger the network.

If you were to connect computers together around the world, you would have something akin to the Internet.

It's not the kind of thing that can be shut down easily, because anyone can make one now.

[bunny planet]

32. Yes, I've got a drawer filled with hard copies in case they shut down the

internets. See you in Gitmo!

[Stand and Fight]

12. Hmmm....

This is disturbing on many levels. Seems that all freedoms shall soon be stripped from the people at this rate. Grave, grave implications.

[keepthemhonest]

16. we better get a back up plan going of communication n/t

[neversaynever]

17. we're already in deep shit

and the shits of it is, most people don't even realize how thick it is.

Call me alarmist, but imho, anyone who thinks we are not ALREADY deeply mired in the trenches of a fascist gov is kidding him/herself. I.e. in a complete state of denial.

The "new fascism" (which isn't new, just "improved") will not implement a program of mass "annihilation" complete with death camps and ghettos, but just talk to any homeless person (who may or may not have been a productive member of this society 4 yrs ago), and compare his/her story with memoirs and personal accounts of the Warsaw Ghetto for example.

The "terror" this "improved" fascism wields against the people is not PHYSICAL, it is FISCAL.

You will be fiscally annihilated if you choose to disagree. You will lose your job, your home, your car....and then, once you have joined the ranks of the homeless, you will know exactly what it was like to live in the Warsaw Ghetto.

[TexasChick]

19. That is truly terrifying! n/t

[neversaynever]

22. You're telling me....

I am in the field of "Germanic Studies" -- my area of specialty is "comparative genocide" (yes, this does exist, it is sometimes called "Holocaust Studies).

I'll tell you the people who are most alarmed about this administration (and have been for YEARS) are those with the most intimate and exact knowledge about Nazi German, i.e., my colleagues.

It's very, very scarey stuff....(I can see the future, and I could probably tell you what the next developments will be in "blow-by-blow" fashion--in my "predictions" over the past 4 years, I've been battin a thousand!)

(Hint: :nuke: )

I'll spare you the details, just this: we need to get these f*ckers OUT of OFFICE and we need to do it NOW -- that is, NO INAUGURATION.

If not,
we are screwed beyond the point of no return.
:scared:

[TexasChick]

23. OMG, neversaynever! I really don't think they'll ever impeach the Chimp!

With a Repuketard Congress and all. I mean, they would have to definitely link the Chimp and cabal to an actual crime. This will be hard! Good heavens, look at the forged yellowcake uranium documents to start this illegal, unjust occupation in Iraq, look at the Valerie Plame case. We still haven't linked any of those treasonous crimes to the WH! (Sigh) I am starting to lose all hope. The best thing we can hope for is to let these PNACers run their course and hopefully IF WE SURVIVE their messes, we can finally take back this country. I just don't know anymore.

[neversaynever]

26. *NEVER*say never ;)

I Just posted this nice collection of links on another thread....

http://www.kitwatkins.com/pages/speak/bush-hitler.htm

You're very correct: impeachment is not the answer. We'll never get them IMPEACHED. The ELECTION itself MUST be overturned. Just like in the Ukraine. We must demand a revote, with paper trail.

It's the only way out of this mess.
And they are acting fast to put as many measures in place bf shit hits the fan.

For me it's clear: if we don't succeed, i will be leaving the country for the second time in my life based on the results of an election (I moved to Germany in 1984 after RR was re-elected; stayed gone for almost a decade).

[TexasChick]

28. Wow! You're one of the lucky ones! I took German for 3 years in

high school. Forgetten most of it. I haven't had a job in 2 years and have absolutely no money whatsoever! I wish I could go with you. Best of luck to you, if this all boils down to that!

[neversaynever]

29. well, I won't be going back to Germany, that's too far away

I'll be heading to canada instead--now that I speak German fluently enough to camouflage myself as a "German", I shouldn't have any problems "up north"....

Besides, I found this post pretty convincing...the part where it talks about Canadians trying to indict the Shrub for war crimes -- which is the only thing that makes sense to me, but hey what do I know, I'm just a "germanist" :evilgrin:

I Love the Smell of Cold Turkey in the Morning: A Week in the Life of America
http://www.america-patriots.com/

Sorry to hear about your job situation--so, you're collateral damage of this admin (my husband lost his job four years ago--we went from big bucks to next to nothin in a month).

[berni_mccoy]

18. Where does it say they are trying to shut it down?

I read the article, and here is the specific actions the group is recommending:

- Create an assistant secretary for cyber security in the Department of Homeland Security.
- Ratify the Council of Europe's Convention on Cybercrime which defines computer crimes.
- Lead by example by requiring federal contractors to deploy state-of-the-art security.
- Boost research and development funding for cyber security.

I'm not sure what these actions will accomplish (actually the last 2 make some sense).

I don't trust the gov't with a 10' pole, but I also work in the IT industry and I've seen what attacks from viruses, spyware and phish-mail can do. They can cost serious financial damage to both indviduals, companies and taxpayers.

Shutting down the Internet isn't the solution. That'd be like shutting down the airlines. People still need to fly and people still need to use the Internet. But that doesn't mean we need to let the terrorists get on board either.

[goodboy]

25. which of the internets will be shut down??? HAHAHAHAHA

[genius]

34. If Gonzales designates DU on his terrorist list, they can arrest all of us

under the new Intell Reform Act. Membership in an organization that becomes designated is now a crime. This may violate Const prov against ex-post facto laws because we have no advance notice of classification.

[Razorback_Democrat]

35. Gotta link to this?

I've not found anything on the internet(s) about any provisions of the Intel reform law like: national ID, forced work, and now this ???

please link

[McCamy Taylor]

38. they cant (they wish they could) all they would do is piss off gates

[sundancekid]

39. and the busheviks keep marching (stomping) on ...

[satya]

42. This is why they won't shut down the internet

Because it's the new "opiate of the masses". Shutting down this forum (and others like it) would be a surefire way to get people out into the streets and that's the last thing they want. As long as they can keep us all sitting comfortably at home, feeling like we're doing something, they can keep pissing on the constitution.

[Quakerfriend]

44. Interestingly enough

Just yesterday they decided to taked dkos off of GOOGLE. Apparently, someone (one person) wrote a letter to Google requesting this--because it is an 'extremely liberal blog and doesn't provide much in the way of news'! Go check it out.

They want nothing more than to put us bloggers out of the business of reality-based reporting!;(

[mrsblister]

43. the bigger picture

D.U. Member Old Mouse posted this yesterday under another thread. I am repeating it for you here with his permission and encouragement. You may also.

time to contemplate the bigger picture?

by Old Mouse


I've wanted to write about this for a long time now, but find it difficult to correctly balance the words. We keep looking at the smaller battles but don't consolidate our facts and think about what this means.

The diligent people here on DU have uncovered a clandestine criminal organization that in an unparalleled act of treason
has spent years illegally placing people, money, propaganda and technology in an attempt to take over and destroy the representative government of the United States.

They are not, as many would believe, neoconservative, fundamentalist Christian, or republican in base, as they use and abandon the principals of these groups whenever it suits their needs. Without understanding their actual affiliation, we can be certain they are pragmatic and capitalist profiteers; dedicated to controlling the United States government, and by extension, the world.

They have the Executive Branch, and their political party dominates the other branches of Government. They are now consolidating a similar level of power on the State level. It is unknown how many ruling members of the Republican party are members of the criminal organization, and how many are only under the sway of their power and propaganda.

They have agents or people sympathetic enough to their cause to be thought of as such throughout our justice and intelligence communities, and have a near compete stranglehold on the main stream media. This is effective in slowing or blocking most investigations into their activities. Additionally, they have perfected methods of operation that move faster than our system of checks and balances can affect.

Since taking power, all of the resources of the executive branch, including its influence over the Republican party and associated social demographic, have been spent in power consolidation. The complex demands of running the nation have been ignored completely, resulting in economic, environmental, social, and geopolitical ruin. They have effectively capitalized on the resulting chaos to further entrench power.

The amazing work of the blogs, DU, BBV, Air America, Greg Palast, et al, have resulting in uncovering and thereby reducing the effectiveness of what may be some of the more clandestine tools used to take power.

Now that is all what I interpret to be fact, available just by paying enough attention to even main stream media, much less what is available here. Enough stalled investigations, Israeli and Saudi connections, intelligence purges, duck hunts and swift boat veterans lead strongly to these conclusions. It is a large and difficult reality to accept, not for DUers because they read and self-educate keeping their critical thinking intact, but for the average American struggling to survive in our increasingly complex world.

Now comes conjecture:

If they are solely motivated by maintaining and expanding their control of government, and they have lost the ability to easily control the outcome of elections (no one, not even Republican voters, will trust voting machines again,)the leaders of this coup will dedicate themselves to finding a new method to stay in power. They also have survival issues... It is doubtful they can afford a non-sympathetic administration to review their sealed records.

To repeat that: Because of the success in reducing the public trust of black box voting machines, we can now expect the full attention of the White House and both houses of Congress to be ending control of the government by the people.

We cannot wait until 2008 to run another Presidential candidate, as many Democrats want. It is dangerous to believe we could even retake control of either house of congress in 2006. We need to overturn this election here and now.

President Kerry must then declare a state of emergency to find and remove the entire criminal apparatus from our government. Every agent that knowing worked to suppress or diminish the constitution must be discovered and tried for treason. The complexities of life and the distorting effect of language have made us complacent to sedition. Redistricting means COUP


Thank you again to Old Mouse for this.

[mattclearing]

47. One explosion and martial law: Welcome the Chimperor!

Yeah. I've been saying something similar lately:

"I'm not convinced there will be a 2008 after four more years of this."

Something needs to be done. These people are crazy, malevolent, and totally without shame.

[thjay]

46. I wonder what Ashcroft thinks about this

John Aschcroft wrote this article two years ago. I suppose he has a different point of view now because "9-11 changed everything." They all make me sick. It's because of the internet that we still have a democracy.

"There is a concern that the Internet could be used to commit crimes and that advanced encryption could disguise such activity. However, we do not provide the government with phone jacks outside our homes for unlimited wiretaps. Why, then, should we grant government the Orwellian capability to listen at will and in real time to our communications across the Web?

The protections of the Fourth Amendment are clear. The right to protection from unlawful searches is an indivisible American value. Two hundred years of court decisions have stood in defense of this fundamental right. The state's interest in effective crime-fighting should never vitiate the citizens' Bill of Rights."

[Democrat Dragon]

49. That reminds me of the time when

Cheney didn't want to invade Iraq and wanted to decrease military budget back during the Bush Sr. administration. Then after that he worked for Halliburton and joined PNAC.

[Carolab]

48. Okay, seems like the appropriate time for THIS

http://www.commondreams.org/