Arnebeck's Suit Filed - LINK!

[Stephanie]

http://www.nbc4i.com/politics/3992559/detail.html

Challenge Filed Hours Before Electoral College Ohio Vote
Court Could Decide To Hear Challenge

POSTED: 11:05 am EST December 13, 2004
COLUMBUS, Ohio -- Challengers of the state's presidential election results asked the Ohio Supreme Court on Monday to review the outcome hours before the Ohio delegation to the Electoral College was to cast ballots for president and vice president.

If the court decides to hear the challenge, it can declare a new winner or throw out the results. The challengers said they also plan to ask the court to stop the Electoral College delegation's vote until their case can be decided.

The Rev. Jesse Jackson and Cliff Arnebeck, a Columbus lawyer working for the Massachusetts-based Alliance for Democracy, accused President Bush's campaign of "high-tech vote stealing."

Jackson said the challengers noticed Bush generally received more votes in counties that use optical-scan voting machines and questioned whether the machines were calibrated to record votes for Bush. <more at link>

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

1. here we go. prepare to be coulterized.

[sabra]

5. Another link...

http://www.onnnews.com/Global/story.asp?S=2684905

Thanks for the post!

[sepia_steel]

88. LOL

You say that as if she is someone to be feared.

FUCK ANN COULTER. She makes money off of her own party members (shmucks) by baiting them with lib-hate and keeping everyone against eachother. She's a disgrace to Republicans.

She breathes in lies. If I happen to hear anything she says, I laugh.

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

93. IMHO, she's more like a fever blister, a cold sore, or a rash

[budkin]

2. Hot damn!!!

Please let this challenge be heard, for the sake of democracy!

[greenmutha]

3. Yippee! Here we go, folks... n/t

[IAMREALITY]

4. Yup! Thank You DU'R DEB FOR FINDING THIS!

You rock DEB! You put my anxiety at ease!

:yourock:

[SueZhope]

13. you were 100% correct before

I worried for no good reason..its all in the works

[IAMREALITY]

16. Nah,,, It's All Good Sue

Believe me, we all worry for GOOD reason LOL

Patience gets harder and harder to practice these days. But all of us worrying together and fighting together definitely helps!

:)

[Sideways]

6. Yeah Go Clifford Otto Arnebeck

EOM

[IAMREALITY]

10. His Middle Name Is Otto?

Ahhhhhh, fuck it. God Bless him anyway! LOL

:)

[Sideways]

23. It's A Fucking COOL Name & Additionally He Is A Jr.

EOM

[BrotherBuzz]

37. I trust this Otto to drive the bus...

besides, how many people have a name that is a palindrome? Hmmmm, Nixon spelled backwards is Noxin....

[IAMREALITY]

58. LOL I'm a Simpsons Fan Myself!

Was just teasin bout his middle name though. Arnebeck Rocks in every possible way!

[SueZhope]

7. Hallelujah Hallelujah NT

[Twist_U_Up]

8. now we need to see what they filed !!!!

[SueZhope]

15. I have never wanted to read

a lawsuit so badly before

[meganmonkey]

9. Hell yeah!! Watch the pigs fly and the shit hit the fan!!!

This is happening!

:bounce:

[European Socialist]

11. challenge

now, how soon can we see the details.

[keepthemhonest]

12. i think we have all

been waiting for this one. yippy skippy

[Broken Acorn]

14. Our democracy now lies on 1 Ohio Supreme Court Judge

OMG...this could be the best day or the worst day. Hoping for the best :)

[Twist_U_Up]

18. Can a judge ignore this ??

The Rev. Jesse Jackson and Cliff Arnebeck, a Columbus lawyer working for the Massachusetts-based Alliance for Democracy, accused President Bush's campaign of "high-tech vote stealing."

[MrUnderhill]

27. Sure.

Ignore what? At this point it's largely circumstantial and assumption. There may be little (s)he CAN do unless/until some direct fraud is show.

Can a judge ignore an accusation? All the time. And it's likely to be a republican judge... so that adds to the likelihood.

[pointsoflight]

40. If ignored, it will be appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court

Deja vu, anyone?

[Stephanie]

42. Oh great....

Do we know anything about the OH judge?

[TexasChick]

47. Rumor has it that he is Repuke, but another DUer said that Arnebeck

said that the judge can be trusted. (Sigh) I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[TexasChick]

17. Phew! Man, that was close. I'm going to send this to my friend in

Barcelona. She and a few of her friends think Chimp stole the election too, but weren't sure of the proof.

[JoMama49]

46. If you read the news articles ...

they say that the challenge COULD stop the electors from voting IF the court accepts the challenge. If the courts don't accept the challenge, and set a date for a hearing on the matter, the electors will go ahead. At least that's how I read it.

[EMunster]

19. shoulding we be hearing any moment about whether the court will act?

before the electoral college's noon vote?

[HEAVYHEART]

20. Holy shit!

I dont' know about you guys but I've been stressed as fuck today, waiting on the lawsuit filing, hearings, electoral votes, ect.. Jeez..

Darling, I know you read my posts. I just want to say I'm sorry I've been a bitch. I love you....

[New Earth]

21. what if none of the justices will hear it?

:(

[righteous1]

32. The Ohio Supreme Court needs to "act" prior to the electors

voting or it's academic

[Kellis]

22. Score one for Democracy

:bounce:

This is history in the making...stay tuned!

[meganmonkey]

24. San Diego paper picked it up too

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/politics/20041213-0829-ohio-electoralcollege.html

[IAMREALITY]

36. Funny How We Are Now Being Called Dissidents Instead of

Conspiracy Theorists LOL

Still not the right word though. The right word is PATRIOTS!

[meganmonkey]

45. More news sites are picking it up!

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&lr=&tab=wn&ie=UTF-8&q=arnebeck&scoring=d

[Straight Shooter]

25. Good news. Very good news. Very very very good news.

Thank you, Mr. Arnebeck.

*whew* I can breathe again.

:thumbsup:

[smartvoter]

26. So it's okay to breathe now... nt

[EMunster]

41. still not breathing...

[crispini]

28. The hair is standing up on the back of my neck.

I can't WAIT for Countdown tonight! I've been sitting here hitting REFRESH on Olbermann's blog page all day!

What will happen? Will they vote? Will they not vote? Shit, I'm not going to get ANY work done today, am I?

[understandinglife]

29. Have just received word from someone...

...who spoke to folk at Mr Arnebeck's office that he is 'in court now.' (that message was sent to me at ~ 0842 PST)

Peace.

"When Did Bush Know?"

[Stephanie]

31. Thanks for that!

Will the judge hear him today?

[understandinglife]

35. Was provided no other details....

....if I get any, they will be posted here immediately.

[Verve]

38. Thank you Understanding!!! n/t

[Kellis]

34. thanks for the update

Go Arnebeck."GO!".

[BreakForNews]

30. One small step for John Bonifaz... One giant leap for True Democracy : )

[mattclearing]

33. Let the madness begin!!!

eom

[wildflower]

39. People are so sue-happy in this country...we need tort reform.

Kidding! :)

Thanks for posting! :bounce:

[TexasChick]

44. LOL! I was getting ready to trounce all over you, wildflower! LOL!!! n/

[wildflower]

I'm sorry, I usually don't do things like that! I'm just giddy! :)

Please forgive me :hi:

[TexasChick]

49. All's forgiven!

:hi:

[Truman01]

43. We have to have a revote, otherwise.....

If the Ohio Court finds enough evidence to block or throw out the OHIO electors we will lose 266 to 252 in the EC.

TC

[dazeconf]

50. It doesn't work that way

In the event no one obtains an absolute majority of electoral votes for president, the U.S. House of Representatives selects the president from among the top three contenders with each State casting only one vote and an absolute majority of the States being required to elect. Similarly, if no one obtains an absolute majority for vice president, then the U.S. Senate makes the selection from among the top two contenders for that office.

We'd probably still lose though.

[Truman01]

55. I disagree with you. There is no need for an "absolute majority"

No where in the Constitution or the federal election laws do you find that proviso. The President must win a majority of the votes cast. This is the same argument we were having in Florida. In the event of a tie, the election is thrown to the House, and the Senate; yes, I'm afraid we would lose there.

TC

[dazeconf]

81. yes, the constitution requires an absolute majority

From Article II, Section 1 of the US Constitution.

Clause 3: The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot for two Persons, of whom one at least shall not be an Inhabitant of the same State with themselves. And they shall make a List of all the Persons voted for, and of the Number of Votes for each; which List they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the Seat of the Government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted. The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the President, if such Number be a Majority of the whole Number of Electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such Majority, and have an equal Number of Votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately chuse by Ballot one of them for President; and if no Person have a Majority, then from the five highest on the List the said House shall in like Manner chuse the President. But in chusing the President, the Votes shall be taken by States, the Representation from each State having one Vote; A quorum for this Purpose shall consist of a Member or Members from two thirds of the States, and a Majority of all the States shall be necessary to a Choice. In every Case, after the Choice of the President, the Person having the greatest Number of Votes of the Electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal Votes, the Senate shall chuse from them by Ballot the Vice President. (See Note 8)

[Truman01]

82. This is why non-lawyers aren't allow to practice law..........

"The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the President, if such Number be a Majority of the whole Number of Electors appointed. . ."

Majority is the greatest number of votes of the whole number of Electors appointed. If Ohio dismissed their slate they would not be included in that number and therefore 266 would be a MAJORITY. If you need more evidence read the next line:

"and if there be more than one who have such Majority, and have an equal Number of Votes. . ." How can two people have a majority if majority means more than 270 votes? They can't. If two people have a majority of the electors appointed and are tied, then it goes to the house.

The problem here is we start with the conclusion we want and then bend the facts or law to fit what we want it to say.

TC

Entire Article below:


From Article II, Section 1 of the US Constitution.

Clause 3: The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot for two Persons, of whom one at least shall not be an Inhabitant of the same State with themselves. And they shall make a List of all the Persons voted for, and of the Number of Votes for each; which List they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the Seat of the Government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted. The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the President, if such Number be a Majority of the whole Number of Electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such Majority, and have an equal Number of Votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately chuse by Ballot one of them for President; and if no Person have a Majority, then from the five highest on the List the said House shall in like Manner chuse the President. But in chusing the President, the Votes shall be taken by States, the Representation from each State having one Vote; A quorum for this Purpose shall consist of a Member or Members from two thirds of the States, and a Majority of all the States shall be necessary to a Choice. In every Case, after the Choice of the President, the Person having the greatest Number of Votes of the Electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal Votes, the Senate shall chuse from them by Ballot the Vice President. (See Note 8)

[Kellis]

54. Sorry but if FRAUD is the case

ALl bets are off.And it looks like Arnebeck is charging FRAUD!

WoooHOooo!

Its a great day to be alive!

[Truman01]

57. Like the article says, even if FRAUD was the case

The judge can only do two things: throw out the vote or order a revote. Actually, I don't even think they can order a revote because there is no provision for that in the Constitution. Only a Federal Court judge could stop the vote from the entire EC. State justices don't have jurisdiction in that matter. They could reverse or halt the OHIO electors from voting but not the entire EC.

TC

[sunnystarr]

72. So if the remedy is to throw out Ohio's electors, doesn't Kerry

then have more electors than Bush?

[Truman01]

73. No right now it stands at 286 to 252....

If they threw out the 20 electors the new total would be 266 to 252. The only way to have them awarded to Kerry is a revote.

TC

[Truman01]

61. Do you have a copy of the Complaint? I would love to read it. nt

[in_cog_ni_to]

48. WooHoo!!!

Go get 'em! Bring those rat bastards DOWN!!!! :bounce::bounce::bounce:

[Junkdrawer]

51. COMPUTERIZED FRAUD MINIMIZES THE NEED FOR CO-CONSPIRATORS..

That's why it's so frightening.

<snip>
Carlo LoParo, spokesman for Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell, said for the challengers' accusations to be true, Ohio election officials of both parties would have had to conspire to throw the election.

"That's simply a ridiculous assertion," he said.
<snip>

The only sample of a central tabulator we've seen, Diebold's GEMS, seems purpose built to change vote totals right under the noses of election officials.

[pacalo]

52. Whooooohooooo! Thanks for the article!

[dazeconf]

53. They'd better work FAST

Blackwell is talking to the electors now. They're just about to vote. Turn on C-SPAN.

[Karenca]

56. BLACKWELL SAID THAT IT'S 12:06. AND ANY OPPOSITION SHOULD HAVE BEEN

ANNOUNCED BY 12:00.

[Truman01]

60. I can't believe competant lawyers would miss such a deadline...

I don't think it was filed after noon.

TC

[Karenca]

74. It wasn't..It was filed before noon..he's fucking lying nt

[Truman01]

75. I'm glad to hear that, it would really stink if they let the deadline pass

Law is full of deadlines and most are firm.

TC

[Karenca]

76. It was already in the newsprints at 11:05 AM nt

[4democracy]

67. The article says posted at 11:05, is that when it was written?

If it was, the lawsuit would have had to been already filed in plenty of time, because it would take time to verify the info, then write the article.

[zann725]

83. Well, if Blackwell perjured himself, and ignored the Coplaint filed...

would that invalidate the votes cast (on the premise no complaint was filed)?

[pointsoflight]

68. The complaint WAS filed before noon.

Blackwell is just pulling his shit again.

[righteous1]

59. UGGHH ,Time is running out for this

[lonestarnot]

62. Well right on --- copy of complaint?

Public record now! Want to see copy!

[bunny planet]

63. Wow!

:) ;-) :9 :7 B-) O8) :hippie: :party: :toast: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :dunce: :wow: :hi: :loveya: :grouphug: :pals: :headbang: :headbang: :yourock: :7


Sorry, words escape me.

[Kellis]

65. I hear ya bunny !

:grouphug: :bounce: :toast:

[pgh_dem]

66. muttering -- keep it together, keep it together

Rally round
KEEP HOPE ALIVE

[lonestarnot]

64. COPY OF COMPLAINT? POST PLEASE/PUBLIC RECORD

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HEAVYHEART]

70. EXACTLY

:grr:

[Guarionex]

71. great...thanks for deleting my message

so political opinions are now banned too..huh? ....

That was not cool...

[lonestarnot]

77. You need to read the rules for posting!

You been naughtie. LOL

[Guarionex]

78. thanks...

I simply said that Blackwell was a sellout...with more comments relating to Malcolm X's contrast of slave negroes and house negroes.

Dave Chapelle can say it, George Carlin can say it, Harry Belafonte can say it...but I say it and it's offensive?

Anyawy, I'm ending the issue here...don't want to make a big deal bout it...but I think it's sad that on DU you can't have a honest conservation on the character of Sec. Blackwell...can't call a spade a spade.

[lonestarnot]

79. I read post before delete...you said mo dan dat!

[Guarionex]

80. yes i di

I called him a Zip...., and a house...., etc...

I don't want to state it again, because I don't want problems...but all the things I said about the guy are true...he is a sellout, not because he is a black conservative, but because he is a black conservative acting as the main person responsible for massive disenfranchisement, especially BLACK disenfranchisement. If that is not evidence that someone has sold out his people in order to get perks with his masters, the Republicans, then I don't know what it is. And I think that on DU, there should be the ability to discuss such issues frankly...I'm not the only one who thinks by the way.

[lonestarnot]

84. You're forgiven ...Blog on

[Blissfulbride]

85. The EC votes have been cast for the shrub

I don't know what's in this lawsuit, but can it have any effect now? Do we have enough time left?

[jamboi]

86. Yes! n/t

[rumpel]

87. ONN: Did you read this part?

"Ohio's electors are a mix of GOP officials and others who are being rewarded for service to the party."

also, CNN's website states there were no protesters outside, here they say there were 10.

[sepia_steel]

89. Typical

Right-wing media omissions.

[Blue_In_AK]

90. POOR SPORTSMANSHIP?????? WTF

[tonyblair]

91. I suspect this has been asked before, but

What is the Kerry majority in Ohio implied by the exit poll results (absolute numbers not %)? I'm asking because that would be the approximate number of ballots that would need to be changed/ tossed in advance of the recount to match the official totals.

P.S. Janice Long (a very cool BBC national radio DJ) has just started playing "I Won't Back Down" as I write this.

[Dancing_Dave]

92. Blackwell ran down the clock....

By waiting till the last second to certify the vote, so there was no time for challenges or recounts to be executed.

Republican officials also seem to have succeeded in running down the clock in Florida, Colorado etc. That's what Bev Harris predicted they would do.

I don't see any very likely scenario for reversing the fixed Presidential election or any of the questionable Congressional races this time around. Nevertheless, if fraud is proven some powerful people can be prosecuted and the results thrown into question.

The Green party canidate may be right that we are on the verge of a major constitutional crisis. I'm not seeing how this crisis could be resolved in a way that would give the election to the candidates that were robbed. At the Federal level, the Republicans hold all the cards.

But if we can prove enough of the repuke officials to be guilty of fraud, we may find a way to keep them from stealing any elections in 2006. With the U.S. economy totally wrecked and thousands of troops dying in the Middle East, few of those Congressional races will be close enough to steal.