Andy no longer with BBV

[oregonjen]

Update on Bev's website.

[crispini]

1. Oh. My. God.

Reposting here for posterity, just in case:

Update: TUESDAY, DEC. 14, 2004: NOTICE
The six-member Board of Directors of Black Box Voting has unanimously voted to terminate the employment of Associate Director Andy Stephenson, for:
- Repeatedly lying to various members of the board of directors
- Misrepresenting results of investigations
- Mishandling telephone communications and withholding information
- Temper tantrums and hanging up on members of the organization
- Outburst at the Florida Supervisor of Elections meeting, offending public officials
- Failing to assist, show up, or even call while Kathleen Wynne and Bev Harris repeatedly reached him to request assistance when they were accosted by Volusia County police

Black Box Voting apologizes for these problems. After tomorrow afternoon, this message will be moved to the discussion forums.

[Wat_Tyler]

2. God, that's really unprofessional that they would post that.

Regardless of whether or not he did all those things, that's really low.

[smartvoter]

10. I can tell you as an employer that it's NUTS. Talk about opening

yourself up to legal action. He can claim she's trying to ruin his ability to earn a living. I live in one of the most pro-business states in the country and could never get away with something like that.

She's completely out of control.

[Wat_Tyler]

16. I don't know much about what's going on with BBV, but

that is a really bad idea. If I were their lawyer, I would've never allowed that post to be made.

[Kelvin Mace]

23. my source tells me

that Lowell Findley is no longer with them either.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Wat_Tyler]

43. Thanks.

[BeFree]

59. Caution

Do not believe everything you read on the internet. Do not jump to conclusions. That is all.

[TrustingDog]

80. I'm with You on That. There are people that would Love....

B Harris fall down hard.

wake the flock up people. Give your head a shake, take some time to find. This is so Rovian, I am SO dissapointed in you fair weather friends jumping all over Bev like shes a .... BUSH.

god lord, I thought I had a place I liked here... after looking for all my fricken life....

[crispini]

83. Oh, please.

Listen, after this came out re: KO, I spent an enormous amount of time going back through the DU archives.

There is a very consistent pattern of behaviour here which can be seen quite clearly in Bev's own posts as seen in the archives themselves. Her behaviour towards Skinner, DU, Keith Olbermann, Plan 9 Pub, and Randi Rhodes has been remarkably consistent.

Don't take MY word for it, please. Go read for yourself. I did.

[Fud]

127. Yes wake up folks she is not a messiah

Finally today Randi Rhodes got pissed off with her and realized she was full of shit. Yes it took this long for it to sink in. Now finally Mike Malloy is finally seeing through all the pile of bullshit. And it's about time really.

Really i don't know what it takes for some to understand a con artist when it has been shown over and over.

Sorry i don't mean to talk down to anyone but i saw through this charade 2 years ago. David saw through it recently and a bunch of other people. I hate to say this but i told you so ages ago.

When i brought this up on #aar on undernet i was told to shut up about it. Why? I don't know it's a cult following and was banned for just speaking about it.

The admins here know exactly what is going on...thats why she was banned.

And yes this is personal.I don't know andy from a catfish on a bamboo pole really. But this is the same pattern attacking people that are trying to help you.

Can someone please list the real accomlishments she has done. I don't mean making outrageous comments and post but REAL stuff that makes a difference.

[alittlelark]

180. It really sucks when almost all the eggs

you have are in a basket that is moth-ridden, and prone to tipping.

"mosh now or die."

[Pepper32]

187. Yep, everyone is lying but Bev...

Riiiigght... What she did to Andy is lower than low. Talk about public humiliation... I feel really bad for Andy and anyone else that will soon experince her wrath.

[KoKo]

84. DU has always been like this. Just roll with it...eventually things calm

down. Or, they have in the past. No place is perfect. Check out the other forums. The most popular discussion forums like this are where factions fight each other... Right now we have a shifting of the Dem Party going on...and no one knows where it's going. Everything is being questioned and every rock unturned. It's tough times.

It works out in the end...or those who get sick of it leave or take a break..

[BeFree]

96. Alot of the same faces

...show up on a lot of the same kinda threads. If ever there was a concerted effort....

[Kelvin Mace]

102. Yes, many of Bev's

victims have posted in the past. They are joined now by her new vicitims.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[BeHereNow]

157. Really? The last Bev thread I posted to

was in her defense.
I wont be making that mistake again.
There was NO reason to slander Andy publicly
on her web site.
She COULD have simply said,
"For personal reasons, Andy is no longer with BBV."
Period.
That is all that was needed and appropriate.
The other choice reveals a vile and vicious
nature for which I have NO respect what so ever.
It was totally malicious of her AND her board
members.
I, for one, suggest an audit of BBV.
I would not trust people who would
kick someone who just lost a sister
any further than I could throw them.
BHN

[goclark]

124. Let's not be crabs in a barrel

We have far to much work to do.

Hint: Rove certainly knows how to devide and conquer.

We are playing right into his hands.

Let's keep our eyes on the prize ---- exposing the FRAUD!:eyes:

[high density]

139. Is Bev Harris working for Rove?

Or is he just posting comments to her website? ;)

[Stand and Fight]

150. Your screen name says it all.... n/t

[T Town Jake]

199. BEV HARRIS IS A FRAUD...GET OVER IT.

(n/t)

[Wat_Tyler]

122. I'm not getting sucked into this one.

The whole BBV mess has a reputation that precedes itself.

[T Town Jake]

198. BEV HARRIS IS A FRAUD...THAT IS ALL

(n/t)

[HEAVYHEART]

204. Uh..

How can we NOT believe it when it came from Bev's web site????

[regnaD kciN]

178. It's gone now...

...replaced by a statement of "support" for Bev from BBV's Board of Directors. (Funny, I always thought Bev was BBV's Board of Directors.)

[BeHereNow]

18. Agreed.

Bev, what you have done is malicious.
For God's sake, Andy just lost his sister
and missed the last days he could have
spent with her to fulfill his committment to you.
How could you do such a thing?
I have lost ALL respect for you.
ALL.
BHN

[JohnnyCougar]

68. You mean you had respect for her at one time?

If I were to post what I thought of Bev, my post would get deleted so fast it wouldn't even be worth it.

[Stand and Fight]

153. Right on, BHN. You hit that right on the head. n/t

[greatauntoftriplets]

41. I talked to him this morning and advised him to do exactly as you say.

He is still hurting from his sister's death. And Bev's cold-heartedness about it.

But I will let him tell the full story.

[Skip Intro]

51. oops

[OKNancy]

76. LOL I just posted the same thing

before I read your post.

[burn the bush]

189. yeah, she better retract that and fast

and maybe do a little andy ass kissing and make up before he does get ticked off enough to file action against her. You'd think that someone so eager to file suit against others would be somewhat aware of the legality of slanderous issues.

[Fridays Child]

14. That was my first thought. And, pre-emptively, they are refusing to...

...allow any discussion of it in their forum. The whole thing is just wrong on so many levels. It leaves me with a very bad taste in my mouth.

[seabeyond]

19. not only that sounds a lot of what bev is being accused of

was just shifted to andy. this is odd

[JohnnyCougar]

71. Projection.

One of the most powerful ego defense mechanisms is to project your shortcomings onto someone else to make yourself look better.

That's what Rove did to Kerry with the military service. Kerry was attacked for his military service even though Bush was an AWOL deserter. In effect, it made Bush look not so bad in comparison.

So goes Bev Harris, so goes Karl Rove.

[seabeyond]

82. right on

was going to say who does that remind you have. cool you. projection

[Kelvin Mace]

105. It's called projection

[pbartch]

31. is there a LINK available???

thanks

[rockedthevoteinMA]

39. link

www.blackboxvoting.org

[greatauntoftriplets]

89. Check out the link!!!!

They took the information down!

[crispini]

93. No, it's still up there, it's just been supplemented.

The whole thing:

CONSUMER PROTECTION FOR ELECTIONS
Update: TUESDAY, DEC. 14, 2004: NOTICE


Statement of Support for Bev Harris
The Board of Directors of Black Box Voting hereby gives a statement of unequivocal support for Black Box Voting Executive Director Bev Harris, her work and tireless dedication to accountable voting in the United States.

We are saddened by the backlash of a particular web forum, media complacency towards facts and ignoring the critical story about public record access denial in 13 Florida counties and elsewhere. Theresa LePore was served papers at a public meeting -- not a retirement party. LePore, of butterfly ballet fame, already has quite a record in lawsuits brought by citizens and one by Congressman Wexler for verifiable voting.

Ms. Harris has documented the miscommunication leading up to MSNBC's Keith Olbermann's editorial comments about her alleged refusal to appear on his show, stemming from producer's inability to contact Ms. Harris, not a refusal by her.

We would like to extend Mr. Olbermann the opportunity to get the facts and real story. We hope that as a journalist, he would give equal opportunity and time to Ms. Harris to set the record straight and report the critical story- the way information is not adding up in this election.

Ms. Harris and Black Box Voting are nonpartisan participants investigating problems in our election process and remedies necessary to insure honest voting. Proper auditing procedures must happen throughout with auditing of voter verified paper ballots and internal auditing of voting systems to create totally transparent elections.

When auditing processes are broken or non-existent, the opportunity for mistakes or fraud exist.

Black Box Voting's goal is to investigate and document the existing reality of elections in America and use such documentation for legislative and/or judicial reform.

It appears that some well meaning people have identified our efforts as among the most likely to overturn the results of the last election. But our goal is accountable elections, regardless of outcome.

Some would like us to release information as we obtain it. Releasing all investigative results prematurely could compromise further investigations and at least one legal action in progress.

Investigations may reveal problems irrespective of party -- not always a popular revelation. It is crucial to realize that our election system, in spite of the apparent partisan funding behind most voting systems, didn't devolve simply because of partisan involvement. It will not be fixed by partisan involvement.

Good people of all political persuasions want elections that people in the United States can trust and have confidence in. Until we have the ability to verify that process at every step in the most transparent way possible, doubt will linger.

Many people are working hard to achieve transparent elections. Ms. Harris managed to break information of that work to the general populace. We can only assume that the revelation of the state of our elections to the general public was not welcome and that Ms. Harris's investigations are getting close to some uncomfortable truths, given the viciousness of the attacks on her recently.

We, the people, have a right to oversight of our elections. When we get that oversight, it will be because of people who dared show current reality. Bev Harris is one of the people America will owe a debt of gratitude.

The six-member Board of Directors of Black Box Voting has unanimously voted to terminate the employment of Associate Director Andy Stephenson, for:
- Repeatedly lying to various members of the board of directors
- Misrepresenting results of investigations
- Mishandling telephone communications and withholding information
- Temper tantrums and hanging up on members of the organization
- Outburst at the Florida Supervisor of Elections meeting, offending public officials
- Failing to assist, show up, or even call while Kathleen Wynne and Bev Harris repeatedly reached him to request assistance when they were accosted by Volusia County police

Black Box Voting apologizes for these problems. After tomorrow afternoon, this message will be moved to the discussion forums.

[greatauntoftriplets]

97. Thanks. Breathing normally now.

Jeez, I freaked when I saw the beginning had disappeared and didn't look further down.

Just talked to Andy. His printer doesn't work and neither does mine at home. I want to print this out tomorrow at work as hard evidence. This is such bullshit that I want to scream.

[crispini]

100. Take a screenshot and save it.

Ctrl+Print Screen, open Word, ctrl + V.

And you're good to go.

[greatauntoftriplets]

101. Thanks.

will try it.

[Kelvin Mace]

112. Don't sweat it

Even if it "disappears", I have saved it for posterity here:

http://www.thoughtcrimes.org/blame_andy.htm

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[greatauntoftriplets]

114. Thanks.

Bookmarking this thread.

[regnaD kciN]

184. The bit about Andy has since been "disappeared"...

The piece now concludes with America owing Bev a debt of gratitude.

:eyes:

[genieroze]

108. nothing new there

[demobabe]

36. no kidding...

usually the line is: "NameofPerson has left our company to pursue other efforts/spend time with their family. We wish him/her the best of luck in their endeavors."

sounds like it could be just a sloppy exuse to try pass the buck of all the negative publicity bev has gotten in recent times.

[carolinalady]

57. IF he was a paid employee--that is a breach of confidentiality

and VERY ILLEGAL. He can sue. He should sue. It is against the law to tell why a person was terminated if you are listed as a previous employer or as job reference!

[OKNancy]

74. As an employer I would say that

it might be actionable on Andy's part. I know that I have been advised that there are certain things that you can and can't say when someone is fired. Of course, if he were working for free, then I guess it would be different.

[alittlelark]

173. What are they thinking?

talk about a legal 'can of worms'....

[rockedthevoteinMA]

3. Um after hearing her on Randi

I don't know what to think - this looks so ridiculous. :shrug:

[sepia_steel]

64. I agree

I don't believe this for a second. It's too bad Bev's need for attention is ruing her potentially great work.

I support ya, Andy!

[Verve]

6. WOW! The soap opera continues..........n/t

[gardenista]

21. Unbelievable. Earlier today, on the RR show, she acted surprised

when Randi told her that Andy was no longer working with her.

[pointsoflight]

34. She was surprised--surprised that Randi knew. n/t

[Pepper32]

190. right... lol She was really surprised! n/t

[propagandafreegal]

206. She's an actress also.... nm

[valis]

212. Unbeliavable...

This is just too much... I mean, buddies one day, worst enemies the second... And this pattern repeated so many times... What the hell is going on?

[greatauntoftriplets]

40. What a pantsload.....

All of it!!!

Andy's sister died. He went to Texas for her funeral.

[hlthe2b]

91. Well, if that doesn't say it all.....................

Good God....

[high density]

136. That is freaking amazing!

Bev Harris is absolutely nuts. Just when I thought her site couldn't get any less professional, something like that appears on the front page.

I just can't understand it.

[straw_citizen]

149. Guess Bev is getting even for being banned on DU

Nothing like making someone else a scapegoat for your own shortcomings.

[carolinalady]

179. This has now been officially removed from her front page.

I don't know if she has it posted in discussion like she said she would do tomorrow.

[T Town Jake]

197. Yep. Same old "Bev" --SHE'S A COMPLETE AND UTTER FRAUD

(n/t)

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

4. There is another side to this story.

It is quite different.

[Ladyhawk]

8. OT: I say, is that a female eclectus in your avatar?

I found this picture awhile back. I can't remember where I got it:

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

35. That's my little girl.

The only woman who will have me. ;-)

[Ladyhawk]

55. Did you see the pic I posted above?

Here's my boy:

[BeHereNow]

9. His sister just died...

and a public statement of this nature is
unacceptable and malicious.
Bev has just lost my support, forever.
That statement was completely UNcalled for
and down right vindictive.
I love you Andy.
BHN

[Ladyhawk]

20. I'm furious with Bev Harris. Even more so now!

I'm glad DU washed its hands of her. I hope Randi Rhodes and company know what they're dealing with.

[greatauntoftriplets]

49. I just emailed her and asked to be deleted from BBV membership.

I added a personal note about Andy. :evilgrin:

[Stephanie]

170. Please do tell

What is the other side, if you know?

[RaulVB]

5. I can't believe I gave some of my money to this person! (n/t)

[George W. Hayduke]

13. Fuck Bev Harris

I've seen her kind before.

Loses the message because she wants to be the messenger.

This is too much.

Where is her credibility?

I don't have to go into all the soap opera stuff she's initiated.

If she's got evidence, bring it forth.

otherwise, it's just games folks.

Carrot-on-a-stick all the time to keep you interested.

[regnaD kciN]

185. Sound like a certain consumer advocate...

...turned third-party presidential candidate we all know?

:shrug:

(For the record, although I live in Washington state, I know neither Bev nor Andy, and haven't felt the need to join in the Bev-bashing around here. The "press release," though, is indefensible.)

[eowyn_of_rohan]

30. I gave her an unusually (for me) big donation, and right when I hit

"send" I had a BAD feeling! I have pretty good intuition, too, so it was odd.

[Brundle_Fly]

67. if it was real good

you would have stopped before you hit send ;)

[eowyn_of_rohan]

72. Yeah, really...

About a week later I got this vision of her in a penthouse suite of a luxury hotel, laughing while her cabana boy fed her peeled grapes and pomegranate seeds. ;)

[carolinalady]

7. I thought Bev was the only one who was getting paid! How do

get terminated from a volunteer position?

[smartvoter]

17. I don't know about this case, but you can have employees -- even

do-gooders need to keep roofs over their heads.

[ebayfool]

203. Actually, I read a statement by her at one time, 3 paid BBV people ...

herself & I would assume Andy & her other assistant. Someone was asking where the donations were being spent, & she threw that info out - said it was 'only' @ $60,000 annual for her (don't recall if others $ amounts were mentioned) & pretty much dared anyone else to 'try' to live on such a paltry amount. It stuck in my head because I immediately started thinking 'Wow, I'd love to live on that amount!". I'll have to try to find it so I can link it. It really doesn't matter, if he was only paid w/ donuts - that post on BBV was so wrong. He should sue, if only for more donuts! We expect honesty & fairness from election officials, repubs, etc - we should also demand it from anyone supposedly affiliated w/ our side.
IMHO

[righteous1]

11. This is bizarre n/t

[Fescue4u]

12. BBV is spinning out of control

What a trainwreck.

[grasswire]

15. maybe someone...

...is slipping her some kind of drug. Some Rovian person.

[HEAVYHEART]

205. Really.

No seriously. I was thinking, maybe she's on crack. Or heroin? No shit. It's possible. We dont' know what she does outside of work.

[Kelvin Mace]

22. Bev has made Andy the scape goat!!!!

She is laying all of this at Andy's feet.

What a group of SLIMEBALLS!

David Allen
Publisher, CEO, Janitor
Plan Nine Publishing
www.plan9.org
www.blackboxvoting.com
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[troubleinwinter]

56. Well, earlier today, you asked who she'd lay blame on...

now we know.

He should sue her for slander.

[Kelvin Mace]

117. Libel actually.

Though I am sure she's slandered him as well and will slander him in the future.

I think I should see if there is a lawyer who would take on a class action libel suit.

David Allen
Publisher, CEO, Janitor
Plan Nine Publishing
www.plan9.org
www.blackboxvoting.com
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[rebelskypirate]

209. Libel/Slander Laws

Hello Mr Allen,

I have seen a lot of posts here about lawsuits, yet not one that explains what libel/slander IS. Here goes, I am not a lawyer, but an author, so I do know a bit about it, at least Florida law anyway.

Slander and Libel are both "defamation of character" with one being verbal(slander), and the other written(libel). However they share these same 2 or 3 burdens of proof in civil court(not a criminal offense):

1) The alleged statement of FACT must be false. Opinions, no matter how ugly, are NOT slander/libel. Examples:

A) "John is a awful person" your opinion, not slander/libel
B) "John is a Nazi" maybe, maybe not. "Nazi" is a common insult, and may be held to just be opinion
C) "John is the local chief of the American Nazi party" This a statement of fact. If John can PROVE he is not these things, then Part One established

2) The person claiming slander/libel must be harmed by the false statement of fact, and in a way that can be measured to establish damages. For example, if the John above lost a job because you told his boss he was a leader of the Nazis, he now has real damages that can be measured.

3) This part applies to "matters of public controversy" or public figures. This is commonly call "malice", and in order for a matter of public record or public figure to prove slander/libel, they not only have to prove A) It was false, and B) I was harmed, but C) The party saying/printing it KNEW it was a lie, and KNEW it would harm me, and did it for that purpose.

This is why few slander/libel suits are won, as proving it, especially for public figures, is NOT easy.

IMO, Bev Harris would have to PROVE all 3 counts, as she is a public figure, and BBV is certainly involved in a public controversy. Of course, the mere threat of lawsuits is scary to many, and all it takes to make one is a lawyer and money. But, many state have SLAP laws that provide for damages against people who try to silence others thr litigation or the threat of.

Any of the non-amateur lawyers here, feel free to correct me, take care all, have a great holidays!

[Kelvin Mace]

211. Thank you for the cogent explanation

Bev's claim of libel against everyone she has accused of it would not meet the criteria you have deliniated.

The reverse is not true, as I have spoken with an attorney on her allegations against me.

Bev has made damaging, demonstrably false charges which she knew for a fact were false when she made them.

I can't speak about Andy's case as authoratatively, but I think he's got a good case just looking at the accusation and knowing the accuser.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Garbo 2004]

92. Well that's one shoe. In another thread I guessed the announcement

would be about a media conspiracy and/or internal sabotage. The reasons given for dumping Andy certainly would suggest he's being fingered for some of the problems people outside the organization have been complaining about.

Even if it were to be all true (I certainly don't know one way or the other) as others have noted that sort of announcement may be actionable. I'll leave it for the real labor lawyers to decide.

I just know when we let even probationary people go for things like not getting their work done because they were surfing porn sites for hours instead of working (after all due diligence was done with the employee to correct the work issues and policies were explained, etc) and other real whacko stuff, we still had to be careful what we said publicly and to others (including any potential future employers) about the employee.

[Eloriel]

106. Here's the other part that is of major concern

I spent some time -- a fairly short time, actually -- serving on the board of a small non-profit where the board members were all firmly under the control of the organization's Executive Director. She "recruited" them, she okayed them (or sabotaged their candidacy for the board), she manipulated and controlled them AND all the board meetings as well.

That ain't the way it's spoze to be, folks. And it was not only ugly, not only impossible to get ANYthing done that didn't have the personal stamp of approval of the Exec Dir (who was against change of any kind and a major control freak to boot), but it was a gross miscarriage of fiduciary responsibility for the board members.

In case it needs to be said, the Exec Dir is supposed to REPORT TO the Board of Directors, not direct them. Everything that happens, including how the money is spent, is ultimately the board's responsibility -- or they'd better know why.

The situation at hand raises big questions in my mind as to how independent this Board is. If they're functioning as a special committee reporting to Bev and doing Bev's bidding, I'd say that's a huge problem.

I'm also not entirely comfortable with the way "the Board" is being used in a personnel matter -- the gory details now made public issue aside. Normally, hiring and firing of staff are at the discretion of the Exec Dir. -- tho they may require board approval. In this case, it seems like the board has taken all responsibility for the matter out of the hands of the Exec Dir. Odd, isn't it? Here we have questions (or at least I do) about the true functioning of this particular board, but suddenly they're ALL about responsibility in one matter alone: terminating someone for cause. Is the Exec Dir hiding behind her board when it's convenient?

I would hope these board members would do some serious research about what are their responsibilities as board members, how boards are supposed to function, etc. Perhaps even get some legal advice.

I left the board I was on that I found so incompetent and screwed up in part because I was concerned about my own legal liability (and partly because it was an exercise in futility at best).

[Stephanie]

174. What is the legal liability of a Board?

What legal responsibility do they have so far as funds raised and spent? Do you know?

[n69n]

24. MALLOY!

talkin about it now!!!!

[crispini]

33. What did Malloy say? n/t

[n69n]

37. call in & tell him what happened!

he wants people who heard it to call in & tell him what happened!

he said that bartcop told him that he had had a falling out with bev harris last year!

[jmatthan]

25. Most interesting as

when Randi questioned her about Andy no longer being with her, Bev replied that it was the first time she had heard about this.

Then less than three hours later she issues a Board of Directors Statement on her web page.

Just does not seem right.

Also, I do not understand why she removed my posts - nothing to do with Andy, from her forum and then locked the thread and finally removed the thread altogether in a matter of about 10 minutes!!

Has Bev now got anyone working with her? Very very sad state of affairs!!

Now Mike is talking about this!! Mentioning Bartcop now.

Jacob Matthan
Oulu, Finland

[smartvoter]

32. Convenient. n/t

[carolinalady]

50. Not to mention--Andy was posting on her website as late as

12/11. I was under the impression she told Randi she has not been in contact with him

[carolinalady]

119. WOW since the time I posted this, Andy's posts on her website

have all been deleted. Guess he is persona non grata now.

[Kelvin Mace]

148. That is a club whose membership

seems to grow daily.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[carolinalady]

62. Those people that have donated significant moneys should

seek legal advice on how to remove her as the administrator of the 501(c)3. It will be very interesting to review her first financial reports after she files with the IRS this year.

[Stephanie]

177. that might be very pertinent advice - I think they raised a lot of money

I think they really raised a lot.

[Kelvin Mace]

121. She pulled exactly the same thing

with BartCop last year.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[jsascj]

26. Is THAT the major announcement?

No offense to anyone but...

That announcement sounds like something my 10, 12 and 14 year old children would come up with. Very petty and vindictive.

[GetTheRightVote]

47. That is in really poor taste, hummmmm

[jsascj]

85. Nope

It wasn't

[Straight Shooter]

27. Yoo-hoo, Bev. Yes, you, the one who is waaayy over there in the Deep End!

You are getting yourself soooo up the Deep Shit Creek without the proverbial paddle.

And may I add, projection is a Republican trait.

[Vinnie From Indy]

28. Down Goes Frazier!

In addition to being vindictive, cruel and petty, Bev's post on her web site deserves it's own award for stupidity. It is a lawyers dream!
Does any serious person now have any doubt about Bev Harris?

[cyberpj]

29. So who is David Allen and blackboxvoting.com?

A couple of months before I found DU,

I also found Bev's site first and was impressed enough with the research and info that I contributed funds.

The other site posts this note:

(ps - both sites seem to be posting the same book by chapters.)

CONTACT: David Allen
Office: 336.454.7766
Fax: [phone]
E-mail:
[e-mail]
Location: High Point, NC
Time Zone: EST

Important!
This information is provided as a courtesy. Bev Harris is no longer affilated with this site, David Allen, or Plan Nine Publishing. We do not speak for her, nor she for us.

CONTACT: Bev Harris
Office: 425.228.7131
E-mail:
[e-mail]
Location: Renton, WA
Time Zone: PST

ONE MORE TIME: Bev Harris is no longer affiliated with me, Plan Nine Publishing, or this web site. Her web site is:www.blackboxvoting.org


http://www.blackboxvoting.com/index.php

[crispini]

46. Read history.

There's a lot of it:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=108750

Read the links in the thread too.

[cyberpj]

73. Too much -

Too much to read to know it ALL (links, links, and more links) but I spent about an hour perusing enough to know I'm too new to have an opinion on whatever's going on there.

Feels like too new a wound to poke at right now.


Silly Newbie, go back to problems you can do something about...

Ok. Leaving...

[Red State Blues]

118. Damn.

I've spent more than an hour and never got anything but bad Karma and frustration.

[Stephanie]

181. Wise newbie

Officially designated non-freeper newbie, due to excess thoughtfulness.

[Red State Blues]

113. When you figure this out ...

Could you post the short version? I've been curious about this myself but wading through those nutball threads (any more than I already have) is out of the question. Before I get flamed, I have been polite to not comment on something where I don't know the history.

I'm also not interested in every slight between DU and Bev, I've mainly been curious about the BBV com/org business.

BTW - I'm not a Bev supporter, but when people here got disillusioned with Bev and things heated up in Ohio, Florida seemed to fall off the radar. Is there anyone other than BBV/Pynchon still interested in Florida? Florida's electoral votes would work just as well as Ohio's in my book.

[crispini]

126. The problem is that the short version

of any disagreement tends to, well, involve the judgement of the person who's giving you the short version. That's why I've been encouraging people to go scrape through the archives.

IMO, the statement of the DU administrators at the beginning of that thread sums it up well.

[Red State Blues]

143. Thanks

You are, of course, correct about the judgement issue. The whole situation is frustrating and seems to make everyone involved look bad. I feel lucky that I received 3 quick, polite answers to my post and no flame war. Thanks.

[Kelvin Mace]

129. Unfortunately

it is an involved story. To be fair to Bev, you have to read her words in context rathet than my summary.

You could start here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2021230

It is a rebuttal of Bev's claim that she did ALL the work on "her" book.

If you want to go from there, I'll supply more links.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Red State Blues]

146. Wow, David - thanks

For the quick reply. I WILL read the supplied link. I wish that I had found DU earlier. I know that it bothered me right from when I first started coming here (about Nov 4) and there was so much positive talk about BBV.org, and when I went there the first thing you see is the disclaimer about your site (which isn't your fault!), the very first taste of the site you get has negative implications. Anyway, thanks for the reply and I'll read the thread you've supplied.

[Red State Blues]

162. Read the thread.

Thanks, it's just the history I was looking for. I wish you well and I hope something good can come from all this.

[Garbo 2004]

134. i"m sure a lot of people are interested in Florida, but the deadline for

requesting recounts there passed long ago. I'm not saying nothing's being done there but there won't be a recount of Florida. Without a major candidate contesting anything, the FL votes were certified and the subsequent 10 day deadline to challenge/request recount in all counties passed.

Ohio was going to be certifying late due to all the provisional ballots having to be reviewed, validated and then counted. Thus the Greens/Libs had time to rally supporters, funds and to hit the ground running in seeking a statewide recount.

[Red State Blues]

147. Thanks- very informative

Maybe I need to post more in irritation and frustration. The posts I'm more proud of usually get no response and this one gets three polite and very informative replies. Thanks to all three of you for the info and for lowering my blood pressure a bit.

[Garbo 2004]

161. LOL Your frustration was understandable. I actually read those history

threads and wasn't quite the same for days. :crazy:

:D

[Garbo 2004]

115. Allen is Bev's former publisher and co-author (among others evidently)

of the book Black Box Voting. The bbv.com site was the original bbv site. After a parting of the ways the bbv.org site was used by Bev and had verbiage on it for some time that implied that the .com site was a rogue copycat site when in fact the .com was the original BBV site.

[Red State Blues]

120. thanks n/t

[Kelvin Mace]

123. I had three separate disclaimers on the site

because Bev kept telling people I was trying to "confuse" people and/or cheat them.

David Allen
Publisher, CEO, Janitor
Plan Nine Publishing
www.plan9.org
www.blackboxvoting.com
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[meisje]

38. I suggest DU boycott any further posts about Bev or her

obviously amateur organization.

[BeHereNow]

42. I'm on the phone with Andy...

WE need to start a fundraiser for his legal defense.
Who's with me?
Talk about defamation in regards to future
employment opportunities...
BHN

[crispini]

48. Shit, I'm in.

I'll give him the same amount I gave BBV.

Fool me once...

[Critical Thinker]

86. I'll do the same

...count me in for the Andy defense fund.

I've seen all I need to understand what's going on here, and I only had to look at today's "update" on the BBV website.

Anybody from the the business world knows that employers NEVER share potentially inflamatory info regarding their former employees outside the company. Not just unprofessional, but stupid for liability reasons.

As an example, when a potential employer calls a former employer seeking info about a job applicant, words are chosen very carefully:
(a) if the employee left on GOOD terms, the conversation can proceed candidly.
(b) if the employee left on BAD terms, the conversation is essentially just one sentence: "Yes, he/she worked here - that's all I can tell you". This is understood by both parties to mean that the applicant left his old employer on bad terms. NEVER are any details discussed - this could potentially open the door to lawsuits.

IMO, Bev is scrambling to save face by making her employee(s) the scapegoat, but she's only making matters worse for herself. Pretty sad.

[BeHereNow]

90. Welcome to DU CT!

Sounds like you are quite informed in this area.
Care to help in advising?
PM me...
BHN

[carolinalady]

103. That is what I was saying. I used to have several hundred

employees and you are EXACTLY correct. She has broken the law.

[greatauntoftriplets]

53. I am with you....

What a great idea! I talked to him earlier today and didn't have that thought. Was too frigging upset at how horrible he sounded.

Thank you!

[intelle]

69. I'm in also n/t

[hlthe2b]

158. This one strikes me as so blatant that he could get a good attorney to

take it on a contingency!

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

44. Please also note:

And, in the midst of this, I think it is only fair: There are members of the BBV "Board of Directors" who post here under pseudonyms and are some of the more vociferous supporters and rubberstampers.

I offer this only in the interest of complete accuracy in this matter. I do not have a dog in this hunt and I have no need to have one in this hunt. That said, I do have a well-honed sense of right and wrong and this thing is being handled all wrong.

Ms. Harris may have the best stuff out there, as regards her data. It won't matter if she first torpedoes her reputation through nastiness and vindictiveness.

[BeFree]

63. And

It would make sense that our enemies would do anything to discredit someone like Bev.

One should not believe everything they read on this, or any board, until the full story comes out. That is all.

[troubleinwinter]

70. We are reading the ugly thing she herself posted on her webpage.

[BeFree]

79. Oh yeah?

You have seen it yourself, and you have the IP address that traces bck to her personal computer? Wow, you are some kind of investigator to have all that evidence... so you would swear on a stack of bibles that all this is true?

The internet has worms. That is all.

[Garbo 2004]

151. There are BBV board members posting here still, they can say

whether or not that post is a legit authorized BBV announcement or not. And who was authorized to post it to the site.

[troubleinwinter]

182. How about a screen shot I took earlier?

Before the site was changed. Does this help clarify it for you????

[T Town Jake]

201. YOUR HERO BEV HARRIS IS A FRAUD. THAT IS ALL.

(n/t)

[carolinalady]

75. Oh please--we can only believe what SHE wrote on her

website. Even if everything she said was perfectly true--WHAT SHE DID WAS ILLEGAL!! And unprofessional. She wants people to give her money-- why should they? She won't show her stuff. She won't work with the media. She is not actively involved in this year's OH black box scandal. She is censoring all negative opinions about her decisions on her website (many of which are being made by her donors) and she is displaying bizarre behavior while discrediting many people who have tried to help her. You can defend her all you want, but I really don't care what the "full story" is regarding Andy. Her actions and words speak for themselves.

[Eloriel]

130. Whether or not it's "illegal" would depend on state laws

Please quit throwing this charge around so carelessly. It's not very responsible. Go do some internet research if you want and see if you can find a Washington state statute that covers it, but until then, it's your OPINION that it's illegal, and mine that it isn't.

[carolinalady]

164. I did . Thank you and here is the link that I believe applies:

http://www.leg.wa.gov/RCW/index.cfm?fuseaction=section§ion=42.17.310

I may be wrong, but I also researched the federal EEOC laws and they have very specific regulations regarding an individual's privacy. Any employer who is subject to the federal wage and hour laws are also subject to EEOC. This includes almost every employer.

Sorry if I offended you in my post. I guess this subject just hit a nerve with me from personal experience.

[F.Gordon]

175. Think "fraud"

Mail Fraud

The State of Washington has an "At Will" policy regarding employee termination. I don't know what, if any, type of contract Andy had with Bev. But Washington is a tough state for legal action in this regards.

But Mail Fraud? I aint no tink' 2 good.
:evilgrin:

[Kelvin Mace]

132. The full story HAS come out

No one is conspiring against Bev, she has brought this on herself.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[T Town Jake]

200. BEV HARRIS IS A FRAUD. THAT IS ALL.

(n/t)

[Stephanie]

186. That's a good post.

And I second it. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

45. That is a dangerously unprofessional and potentially liable statement.

Do they have attorneys working for BBV? I have a feeling they are going to need them.

[Kelvin Mace]

133. Unless she can prove

every statement to be factual, she has libeled Andy.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Lone_Star_Dem]

160. That's right.

She has to have hard legal proof that will stand up to a jury in a court of law.

I own a small business and I do know you don't do something like this. The burden of proof is on her shoulders now, along with the legal fees to defend this statement if he chooses to sue.

This was a foolish move on so many different levels. No good can come from a public statement such as this one. It now appears as if she is trying to blame her current situation on him. If he were to blame for the current fiasco, it would have been so much wiser to site internal problems and make a statement that you are working on the situation. Then you go public that he was let go for undisclosed reasons. Let people assume what they will and you have no legal battles to fight.

Isn't part of running a PR business damage control?

[NCvoter]

52. what a joke

completely discreting real voting issues. bbv is probably an underground gop operation.

[katinmn]

54. she not only betrayed him, she betrayed us.

This further lowers credibility of the left when we need to build unity.

I don't care if they have backroom brawls but it was damaging that she and her board did it in this manner.

Shame on them.

[Skip Intro]

58. Sheesh, its sounding like a mob in here - how'd this happen?

Something is not right here lately.

[crispini]

66. Read history.

It's all there in the archives.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=108750

Follow the links in the thread.

I did, I spent several hours reading that thread and where it took me, and it has made things pretty apparent to me.

[kk897]

154. crispini, plan 9...

...you poor guys are always having to post links for people to read about all the stuff that went on in the past. It might be nice if some moderator would pin the explanation they gave for tombstoning her. That way, everyone would see it before stepping into this... um... I don't know what to call it. Perhaps you could suggest it?

[OKthatsIT]

78. Go check out Randi's show..3rd hour, today

She chats with Bev Harris. Everyone has been wondering where Bev Harris has been after disappearing for 11 days. She hasnt answered emails or phone messages. Anyway, Bev did not have much to say about her investigation and Randi asked her why she wasnt involved in Ohio Hearings..at least an affidavit would have been nice...Bev sort went duhhhhh Bev hemmed and hawed saying she has been very busy. Randi confronted her on her communication blackout and why? Then Randi said "People have given you a lot of money and you are expected to keep lines open, return calls, be civil with others who are your peers, etc..

Harris got whacked on LIVE radio

[Cronus Protagonist]

60. So is it true that Bev's an untreated bipolar person?

Just a rumor I heard, nothing to it really.

[WyLoochka]

207. Seems more like

severe Borderline Personality Disorder. The BPD's specialty is blowing up relationships with maximum pain caused to the "blown up on."

Hate to say it - but KNEW this would happen to Andy, once he withdrew from the race for WA Sec'y of State in order to throw all his effort and enthusiasm behind Bev. Just wondered what took so long.

[Kelvin Mace]

210. What took so long was a display of "disloyalty"

on Andy's part. When he started to care more about his sister's health than Bev's dog and pony show, he became "disloyal".

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Cronus Protagonist]

214. In my world, loyalty is earned, Republicans think they can command it

And punish those who don't buckle under. Bev has yet to earn my trust, never mind my loyalty. Having said that, I like seeing her agitating because it helps to keep the focus on our issues as well as hers.

[Catherine Vincent]

61. Well Andy can come to DU.

[troubleinwinter]

65. Lessee here... I got some nuts

walnuts
peanuts
coconuts
macadamia nuts

nuts!!

and libel and slander.

[Nederland]

77. Wow

I disagreed with Bev on a large number of technical issues, and always worried that she didn't have a good enough grasp of technology to be an effective spokesperson, but this is surprising. I always that she had decent business sense, but this proves otherwise.

[OKthatsIT]

81. These machines Bev is looking at...

They sound like very simple code and patch structures...like something from the 80's. I heard diebold makes casino slot machines, too.

Now why didnt Bev ask a computer science student to tag along. Bev is afraid to give up any spotight ir she would have 'offered herself' to others who had more knowledge AND WANTED TO HELP THE CAUSE

[Nederland]

142. Exactly

When Bev first came here I spent about three days trying to explain to her why open source software, especially software that does any sort of encryption, is a basic necessity. She just didn't get it.

[yowzayowzayowza]

87. Expected better, Bev.

The dimensions of indifference in her statement are mindboggling.

[IAMREALITY]

88. Most Unprofessional Thing I Have Ever Seen

From the Most UNPROFESSIONAL Participant of our cause.

I never trusted her from the getgo, and always had reservations about her, but supported what she is doing because it was a just cause.

I am no longer disillusioned. I find NO reason to believe she does what she does for any other reason other than personal gratification, greed, need to be in the spotlight, and starvation for attention, regardless of how she hurts those around her.

Bev is worthless in my eyes, and I could care less what she finds. She has done nothing but undermine the credibility of our cause in recent times.

[Lil]

94. Any chance message was a hack job? Andy/Bev verified firing? n/t

[BeHereNow]

95. Verified.

On the phone with Andy.
BHN

[Lil]

99. Thanks. I felt sure it had been but - just in case thought I'd ask. n/t

[greatauntoftriplets]

98. Verified.

I have talked with him as well.

[n69n]

104. todays episode of randi is uploaded!!!

http://airamericaplace.com/archive.php?mode=show&id=6

so we can all review & catch up!

[New Earth]

110. thank you!

gonna listen now

[Andy_Stephenson]

107. I just want to hop on this thread and thank....

everyone out there who has called, DU mailed, emailed and/or posted support to this thread.

I would just like to formally state...that the first time I heard of this action by the board of directors was when a fellow activist emailed me and told me to look at the Black Box Voting Web site a few minutes ago. It is regrettable that Ms. Harris has not returned the dozens of phone calls I have placed to her in the past 5 days.

I appreciate that I have been off of the radar screen for the past couple of weeks. My beloved sister Janice passed away on Nov 30th 2004 after a long battle with sarcoidosis and I went to Texas to be with my family.

My greatest sadness at this moment comes from the fact that if Ms Harris was so dissatisfied with my work that she contemplated taking this action particularly in such a public, inaccurate, and humiliating way, that she would have done so a month ago when I asked for and was denied leave to go home for a few days to visit my sister and say goodbye. My family had learned at that time that, Jan would not live to see Christmas and that if I wished to visit her one last time while she lived it needed to be then but my contribution to Black Box Voting was deemed so critical that I was denied leave for those few days. Yet here I am now very publicly unemployed.

I will not post any further on this matter this evening and I hope you will understand. I will be exploring my options over the next few days. With gratitude and love for all your support...

Sincerely,
Andy

[n69n]

109. Andy, PLEASE CALL RANDI TOMORROW.

Andy, PLEASE CALL RANDI TOMORROW.

[BeHereNow]

111. You are Loved...

And you have our support.
Bev has just lost all respect.
I don't care how important someone's work is
or how brilliant their mind is...
In the words of Tennesee Williams':
"Deliberate cruelty is unforgivable."

BHN

[genieroze]

116. I'm very sorry for your loss.

:cry:

[Wat_Tyler]

125. Don't worry - It's clear to a blind man that this is well out of order.

We'll keep our eyes and ears open.

[carolinalady]

128. I'm so sorry for your loss and this subsequently public violation

of your privacy. Please contact an attorney and DOCUMENT DOCUMENT DOCUMENT everything you remember. It is possible that Ms. Harris violated the Family Leave Medical Act though I am not certain what the parameters are for a sibling relationship. A good labor attorney can tell you.

[wildflowergardener]

131. So Sorry about this

Andy,

I don't know you, but I am so sorry to hear about your sister, and that you were not able to see her before she died.

I am sure you did all that you could to help the group, and it seems to me that you are being made the scapegoat to the problems with the group.
This action (not letting you see your sister) seems the act of a heartless person.

I hope that you can find a cause to help that appreciates your work. I have found that several times when I was laid off from jobs, that it turned out to be silver linings, and though I was upset at the time, that I ended up with an even better job.

I think you should not blame yourself - as if you were doing a bad job. I have heard from other volunteers with BBV, that you have done many things for the organization - and have devoted yourself to it. On her show, Randi said you were the one she was always able to
reach - meaning you were the one who was available - and it sounds like if the problem is with communication - it is Bev's problem, not yours. It appears to me that this is a pattern - use someone then drop them, when Bev has no use for them anymore.

You are better off out of that group, I believe.

Meg

[in_cog_ni_to]

135. Andy, I'm so sorry for your loss.

:hug: For you to be denied a visit to see your sister is beyond contemptible. I'm so sorry this has happened to you. You don't deserve this. :(

[Kelvin Mace]

138. Even though we disagreed,

on the matter (Bev's treatment of me), Andy was always polite and respectful. I appreciated the position he was in and am outraged that he has been treated so shabbily for his loyalty.

To all the Bev apologists out there, we really don't want to hear your latest excuses for Bev vile behaviour.

We really don't.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Quick n Low]

156. You hit the nail on the head.

Even though there were disagreements in the past no one deserves the unprofessionalism that BBV.org has displayed regarding Andy's position and standing with their group.

It really is inexcusable and unfortunately BBV's behavior makes it just that much harder for the real voting advocacy groups out there who are trying to make a difference by working with the system and not bringing drama to the cause as BBV.org and Bev Harris have.

Sorry for your loss Andy. Best of luck finding a new gig.

[Catherine Vincent]

140. Sorry for your loss, Andy.

[shireen]

155. Hang in there, Andy.

Dear Andy,

my deepest condolences on the passing of your sister. And I'm really sad to hear about the problems you've had working with Ms. Harris.

Someone posted your DU message on the blackboxvoting.org site at
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&omm=0&om=72&forum=DCForumID4410

The time stamp is Tue Dec-14-04 10:23 PM. I wonder how long that will last?

Take care, we're rooting for you.

- shireen

[carolinalady]

172. just checked--it is gone.

[Garbo 2004]

168. Oh sweet Jesus, Andy. FWIW I just heard someone on Malloy speak up 4 you.

But not being able to go see your sister before she passed... Damn.

Again, my condolences.

[KTM]

169. Love ya GBNC

Sorry you are in the middle of another "brown out," as it were.

REALLY sorry to hear about your sis; tremendously saddening that you could not take the leave when you wanted to see her.

Chin up.

:hug:

[Pobeka]

192. I have only the best wishes for you Andy.

Sorry to hear about your sister.

Good luck to you in the near future.

[valis]

213. What the hell? You were fired without even being told in person?

I just cannot believe this...

[Political_Junkie]

215. Andy, I'm so sorry

to hear about all of this. You worked so hard and did not deserve to be treated this way. You still have our support. Sorry about the loss of your sister.

[AmyCrat]

217. Andy -- You have my sincerest condolenses...

you are in my thoughts -- I know losing a closed loved-one is so difficult, and I can only say that I, for one, appreciate your willingness to continue with your work for BBV even in the face of the gravest family turmoil.

You have my full support and I wish you and your family some peace through the holidays.

[Bigleaf]

137. BBV.org Board issues "Statement of Support" for Bev Harris

I'm a newbie and as such, can't post a message yet. Anyhow, here is the link and the actual statement.

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/

Update: TUESDAY, DEC. 14, 2004: NOTICE


Statement of Support for Bev Harris

The Board of Directors of Black Box Voting hereby gives a statement of unequivocal support for Black Box Voting Executive Director Bev Harris, her work and tireless dedication to accountable voting in the United States.

We are saddened by the backlash of a particular web forum, media complacency towards facts and ignoring the critical story about public record access denial in 13 Florida counties and elsewhere. Theresa LePore was served papers at a public meeting -- not a retirement party. LePore, of butterfly ballet fame, already has quite a record in lawsuits brought by citizens and one by Congressman Wexler for verifiable voting.

Ms. Harris has documented the miscommunication leading up to MSNBC's Keith Olbermann's editorial comments about her alleged refusal to appear on his show, stemming from producer's inability to contact Ms. Harris, not a refusal by her.

We would like to extend Mr. Olbermann the opportunity to get the facts and real story. We hope that as a journalist, he would give equal opportunity and time to Ms. Harris to set the record straight and report the critical story- the way information is not adding up in this election.

Ms. Harris and Black Box Voting are nonpartisan participants investigating problems in our election process and remedies necessary to insure honest voting. Proper auditing procedures must happen throughout with auditing of voter verified paper ballots and internal auditing of voting systems to create totally transparent elections.

When auditing processes are broken or non-existent, the opportunity for mistakes or fraud exist.

Black Box Voting's goal is to investigate and document the existing reality of elections in America and use such documentation for legislative and/or judicial reform.

It appears that some well meaning people have identified our efforts as among the most likely to overturn the results of the last election. But our goal is accountable elections, regardless of outcome.

Some would like us to release information as we obtain it. Releasing all investigative results prematurely could compromise further investigations and at least one legal action in progress.

Investigations may reveal problems irrespective of party -- not always a popular revelation. It is crucial to realize that our election system, in spite of the apparent partisan funding behind most voting systems, didn't devolve simply because of partisan involvement. It will not be fixed by partisan involvement.

Good people of all political persuasions want elections that people in the United States can trust and have confidence in. Until we have the ability to verify that process at every step in the most transparent way possible, doubt will linger.

Many people are working hard to achieve transparent elections. Ms. Harris managed to break information of that work to the general populace. We can only assume that the revelation of the state of our elections to the general public was not welcome and that Ms. Harris's investigations are getting close to some uncomfortable truths, given the viciousness of the attacks on her recently.

We, the people, have a right to oversight of our elections. When we get that oversight, it will be because of people who dared show current reality. Bev Harris is one of the people America will owe a debt of gratitude.

The six-member Board of Directors of Black Box Voting has unanimously voted to terminate the employment of Associate Director Andy Stephenson, for:
- Repeatedly lying to various members of the board of directors
- Misrepresenting results of investigations
- Mishandling telephone communications and withholding information
- Temper tantrums and hanging up on members of the organization
- Outburst at the Florida Supervisor of Elections meeting, offending public officials
- Failing to assist, show up, or even call while Kathleen Wynne and Bev Harris repeatedly reached him to request assistance when they were accosted by Volusia County police

[Nederland]

141. So sorry, Bev

...but at this point there is nothing you could say to make up for what you've done.

[Critical Thinker]

145. Talk about koolaid drinkers, who penned this Statement of Support ?

<snip>

We, the people, have a right to oversight of our elections. When we get that oversight, it will be because of people who dared show current reality. Bev Harris is one of the people America will owe a debt of gratitude.

<end snip>

A little too patently self-righteous for my taste...

[Turn CO Blue]

163. This official "statement" is so poorly constructed, that

it is painful to read. The actual "message" itself is beyond petty.

[Fescue4u]

165. lmao..

So she supports herself.

WHO WOULDA THUNK IT?

[F.Gordon]

166. Can Bev be terminated?

- Repeatedly lying to various members of the board of directors
- Misrepresenting results of investigations
- Mishandling telephone communications and withholding information
- Temper tantrums and hanging up on members of the organization
- Outburst at the Florida Supervisor of Elections meeting, offending public officials

This looks more like Bev's resume.

[tjdee]

144. This is motherfucking bullshit.

She lied about Andy being with/without BBV to Randi. That, or she miraculously got in touch with all the directors to dismiss him within less than six hours?

I was unaware of the situation with his sister, less than one month ago at that--very low on a number of levels, what Bev Harris has done here.

So very sorry it is coming to this.

[BeHereNow]

152. In the light of Andy's sister passing-

What she did is reprehensible.
Talk about kicking a man when he is down...
And publicly to boot.
Hideous behavior.
Truly.
BHN

[shireen]

159. refund?

Perhaps those of us who donated to BBV.org should request a refund.

[slutticus]

167. VILE

This is the only word I can come up with at the moment, without getting my reply deleted....

[New Earth]

171. listening to Randi Rhodes show now

so does this mean Bev outright lied on the show? saying she 'knew nothing' about Andy being fired?

[tjdee]

176. Why yes, yes it does.

Unless, less than a day later, the board of directors (and she is the EXECUTIVE director) miraculously convened to decide that Andy was no longer working there.

And also, his sister died less than three weeks ago.

Nice.

[troubleinwinter]

183. Here is part of a screen shot I took earlier.

[masaka___]

188. This sucks.

Why couldn't she be cooler than that?

She had so much potential to do good.

Can we rewind time, and do this shit over again?

I defended Bev for a long time, but ...why did she have to do this?

I so want to support the investigation of electoral fraud, and I want this investigation to get to the bottom of things, but wtf is up with this lack of harmony.

It so didn't have to be this way.

Bev could've been a straight-up hero, but not when she pulls shit like this.

*sigh* *sigh* *sigh*

FUCK

oh well.... let's just keep our eye on the prize, and keep working (in our own ways) to unhijack this country from * .

[Old Mouse]

191. please be calm

Separate the messenger from the message. The personal drama of BBV is none of our business. If you want voyeuristic satisfaction turn on the Peterson verdict.

It is obvious that Bev has personality problems, and BBV is not run as professionally as we would like. But none of us are so perfect as to stand proud in the light of intense scrutiny. So she's a control freak, and has some sort of caustic personality? Well that's the only sort of person that would have attempted to prove this level of fraud in the first place. It takes that sort of personality to stand on the steps of a polling precinct and tear a trash bag of evidence out of the hands of a government official in the act of committing a felony.

None of us would do that. None of us did that.

I am certain DU has passed the level of mere freeper infiltration and now has Rove operators working psyops on the boards. This is no longer bubba with free time and an attitude, these are the big boys. Do not underestimate what they can do.

The meme to watch for and resist is "Bev Harris + money"
It is not important to what we are trying to do, and will divide us.

Bev has been very effective in the past. We need to determine if these problems are her personality flaws breaking under the strain, if there has been the occasional post or phone call in her name, or if BBV is no longer a viable resource for uncovering fraud. I listened to the repeat of the Randy Rhodes show, and it sounded as though all of this erupted just as Bev located the potential location of data manipulation. We need to focus on the bigger picture.

[Kelvin Mace]

193. HAH!

The meme to watch for and resist is "Bev Harris + money"

The meme to watch for is "Bev Harris + ego + paranoid cult of personality".

And for that, resistance is futile.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Garbo 2004]

194. Not being glib and can't cite specific statutes/regs at the moment

but as you say "..evidence out of the hands of a government official in the act of committing a felony" and my recollection is that it indeed is a crime to muck about with, destroy such materials.

So my question is, and seriously not sarcastically, was a police report or charges filed? I can't recall if there was mention of one being filed or not. But it seems there certainly should have been. It's a crime if what we were told those materials represented were actually what those materials represented.

And regardless of one's distrust of the law and authorities, still if one has evidence of a crime like that, one can't really just hold on to it on one's own and then whip it out in a Perry Mason moment in a legal proceeding.

While the soap opera may have some appeal for some, quite seriously if the wheels are indeed coming off Bev's BBV wagon (or even just appear to be) and/or she's having some issues impacting performance, behavior (due to stress and personality) that's a problem that goes beyond mere egos and personality. (And hanging out Andy publicly as dirty laundry on their site wasn't a good move for appearances and other reasons.)

The concern is that Bev's apparent behaviors or at least the issues that appear to surround them can affect the public perception of the cause (more, I'd venture than posts here but I could be wrong about that). Bev & the BBV Board aren't the only ones with an interest in the cause.

In the meantime, perhaps the BBV can hire an answering service since communications appear to be such a problem.

[Old Mouse]

196. fair points

The poll tape incident is the cause for the lawsuit she filed in Volusia County. If the story of the poll tapes is untrue, she has perjury problems much greater than her reputation on the DU boards.

She does not own the video that was shot; Votergate seems determined to make a feature for-profit film out of it. Perhaps Conyers could subpoena the footage before someone else takes care of it.

Good idea about a message center and a full time PR person would be good as well, but as it is her organization we can only suggest changes.

[T Town Jake]

202. YOUR HERO BEV HARRIS IS A COMPLETE & UTTER FRAUD.

(n/t)

[WyLoochka]

208. "We need to determine..."

"...if BBV is no longer a viable resource for uncovering fraud."

Bev has already done the "determining" herself. She has blown up every shred of the considerable "viability" she once had. The woman is totally toxic, interpersonally speaking, and obviously paranoid. As such, she has no credibility and only hurts the cause.

We need to count it as a blessing that she has not been involved with developments in Ohio.

Let a good shrink stay behind and "try" to treat the Toxic Lady - let's move on and get the job done. We have a lot of work to do.

[JMac]

216. Earth To Old Mouse! Come In Old Mouse

Walk towards the light...Closer...A little closer..

[Pooka Fey]

195. Andy -So sorry for your loss. Thanks for your work towards this cause. n/t