HEADS THE F*** UP: TRIAD SCANDAL IN THE NEW YORK TIMES

[WilliamPitt]

I will have affadavits etc. on this matter out shortly.

http://www.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI=http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/15/politics/15ohio.html&OQ=orefQ3Dlogin

Lawmaker Seeks Inquiry Into Ohio Vote
By TOM ZELLER Jr.

Published: December 15, 2004

The ranking Democratic member of the House Judiciary Committee, Representative John Conyers Jr. of Michigan, plans to ask the Federal Bureau of Investigation and a county prosecutor in Ohio today to explore "inappropriate and likely illegal election tampering" in at least one and perhaps several Ohio counties.

The request for an investigation, made in a letter that was also provided to The New York Times, includes accounts from at least two county employees, but is based largely on a sworn affidavit provided by the Hocking County deputy director of elections, Sherole Eaton.

Among other things, Ms. Eaton says in her affidavit that a representative of Triad Governmental Systems, the Ohio firm that created and maintains the vote-counting software in dozens of Ohio counties, made several adjustments to the Hocking County tabulator last Friday, in advance of the state's recount, which is taking place this week.

Ohio recount rules require that only 3 percent of a county's votes be tallied by hand, and typically one or more whole precincts are selected and combined to get the 3 percent sample. After the hand count, the sample is fed into the tabulator. If there is no discrepancy, the remaining ballots can be counted by the machine. Otherwise, a hand recount must be done for the whole county.

Ms. Eaton contends that the Triad employee asked which precinct Hocking County planned to count as its representative 3 percent, and, upon being told, made further adjustments to the machine.

County officials decided to use a different precinct when the recount was done yesterday. No discrepancies were found.

"This is pretty outrageous," Mr. Conyers said. "We want to pursue it as vigorously as we can."

...more...

[Karenca]

1. GREAT!!!!!!!! nt

[autorank]

69. The KEY PARAGRAPH in the article.

"But Brett Rapp, the president of Triad, said that although it would be unusual for an employee to ask about a specific precinct, preparing the machines for a recount was standard procedure and was done in all 41 counties where Triad handles vote counts. He added that he welcomed any investigation."

Preparing indeed. All 41 counties "where Triad handles vote counts."

Give me a fucking break.

[jamboi]

75. Oh, hallelujah! Thanks WRP for this news from on high. Much needed.

Awesome.

[godel escher bach]

183. Your'e absolutely right, but not for the reason you think. n/t

[Razorback_Democrat]

206. OK, that's a cryptic response, I'll bite

I read your profile, you mostly read.

what's your take on this, and why so cryptic?

[godel escher bach]

216. Hell if I know, I must have been drunk when I wrote that.

I'm sure it all made sense when i wrote it (jose cuervo.)

[Higans]

105. Is E-Voting ME-Voting? Prove it!

Every one Print Bumperstickers.

[rockedthevoteinMA]

2. Here it comes!!

Thank you Will Pitt! :hi:

[Pithy Cherub]

3. Holy Sh*T Batman

We have arrived!

[StClone]

22. So was there any consensus on the dKos article

that had a triad guy explaining the friday tampering thing? While I don't trust triad, I was wondering if anyone on DU had any problems with the explanaition he gave? Is it plausible?

[godel escher bach]

142. it's plausible, and the only...

...reason I see that triad would admit that they touched every machine, is if they were legitimatly resetting them as they claim. I certainly don't know if they are lying. Their response seems reasonable to me. Of course, I'm in the minority here.

[rockedthevoteinMA]

173. StClone - someone posted this in LBN in response to this article

It explained it for me:

yibbehobba (685 posts) Wed Dec-15-04 01:28 AM
Response to Original message

12. WTF?


Ok, I do software quality assurance for a living, and "preparing the machines" for a recount doesn't make any goddamn sense. Consider:

During initial vote count, machine spits out X votes for Bush, Y votes for Kerry. Total number of votes, X + Y + (nader, etc., negligible) = Z

For the moment, let's not worry about whether the machine was correct or incorrect in its initial count.

The article states that the method for the recount is to select 3% of the votes, and count them by hand and then count the same votes using the machine. If there's any discrepancy between the hand count and the machine count, then you recount everything. The problem is that if the machine has been reconfigured (say, to count votes properly) after the initial count and before the recount, you'd never know that there was a discrepancy, because you don't ever count up all the votes. You never get to look at X, Y, and Z number of votes. You look at some random sample of 3% of Z. In an election that was won by, what... 2% difference, you wouldn't even be able to determine a statistically significant discrepancy based upon this type of recount.

It makes no goddamn sense to "recalibrate" the machine, as the entire point of the fucking recount is to determine whether the machine was properly calibrated at the time of the original count. Whether or not the machine is capable of giving a proper count isn't relevant AT ALL. The only relevant information is whether it was configured properly when the original vote took place.

Anybody who knows me here on DU knows that I don't put a lot of stock in the various stolen Ohio vote theories, but this is just utter fucking nonsense. If the proper operation of the machine is in question, and it requires some sort of routine maintenance "calibration" in order to work proplery, it should be done by an outside party. Regardless of the various fraud theories, etc, the company at the very least has a vested interest in making sure it's machines are known to be accurate. It's an absolutely gross conflict of interest to have company representatives doing this work. Given the number of vote counting machines in Ohio that needed to be recalibrated, I'm guessing that the process isn't fucking rocket science, and any necessary standard maintenance on the device could be done by a third party acceptable to both the government and Triad.

Speaking of that, who the savage sam hill hell names a voting machine company TRIAD for God's sake? That's like calling your aviation safety company The Trilateral Commision.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1072366#1072608

[Amaryllis]

178. Isn't this another really good reason why we need a HAND recount?

[ClintCooper2003]

4. Yes, but "no discrepancies were found." And hasn't this already...

been answered by the article on DailyKos?

[godel escher bach]

121. I agree. I see nothing to get excited about.

A lot of people will simply be more disappointed than they are now.

[marylanddem]

125. Sorry to disillusion you, but I'm not disappointed anymore

I'm psyched for the long battle ahead.

[godel escher bach]

147. I think that's great. Carry on n/t

[autorank]

5. "Can you smell what The Times is Cooking" .... FINALLY

[Patsy Stone]

12. Are you

The People's Poster? :)

[autorank]

26. Another denizen in the depths of the human comedy!

[TexasChick]

30. Good grief, that man is a sure fire looker! n/t

[autorank]

85. Hate to disappoint you two but that's actually me in my Rock suit!

[TexasChick]

92. Nuh..uh...that's the Rock! Stop yanking my chains. LOL! n/t

[Patsy Stone]

31. I am not ashamed

to openly love The Rock. I picked him out of WWF back in the day and told my husband he was gonna be big. I know talent when I see it! Go YOU!

[Clark2008]

167. OK... I'm Southern... I really am!

I know how to make buscuits from Crisco and flour.
I know how to fry chicken (again in Crisco).
I know when to plant a bulb.
I know how to drawl, oh-so-perfectly in New York to get a free drink.

BUT... I don't have much of a clue who The Rock is. He is a 'rassler?
Yes, pop culture passes me by daily.

Oh, and I don't like new C&W, either. Johnny Cash, George Jones and Hank Williams SENIOR are FINE by me.

I do like Bluegrass and the Blues, both of which originated, along with C&W from my home state (no... Kentuckians... Bluegrass was invented in the Hills of East Tennessee). Hell, so did Rock n' Roll, for that matter.

Shit... I'm a quasi-Southern Belle, ain't I?

Patsy... I'm gonna have to pick Olbermann over this dude. OK? ;)

[Starlight]

176. Olbermann is mine!!

I love a man with a brain. :loveya:

[Patsy Stone]

214. Wrassler, actor, star

He was in the Scorpion King and the remake of Walking Tall among other things. He was in the WWF, but was plucked out to become the new action star of the 21st Century.

He used to be a UM football player, back in the day. He's cheesy, but I love him.

[loritooker]

145. jesus keeechrist

[autorank]

215. Where else can you get dialog like this? Passionate, straight forward.

[lizzieforkerry]

6. Wow! I wonder if any Triad reps were in Warren County this week

[Patsy Stone]

That is very, very special...

And, very, very hot...

Best line, IMHO: "I've been doing this since 1985, and in all my experience this is the first time that we have had any complaints whatsoever," Mr. Rapp said.

Classic.

[ClassWarrior]

7. As usual, Will...

:yourock:

NGU.

[BoomerSoonerOKU]

8. ???

"Ms. Eaton contends that the Triad employee asked which precinct Hocking County planned to count as its representative 3 percent, and, upon being told, made further adjustments to the machine.

County officials decided to use a different precinct when the recount was done yesterday. No discrepancies were found."

So, they changed the precinct that they were going to count after they told the employee and it came out looking clean?

[Carolab]

49. Question is,

how does anyone know they didn't mess with that precinct too?

I mean, who knows what the hell they did over the course of the last month or more?

And which county officials decided which different precinct to use? And on what basis? I don't get why they get to CHOOSE ANYTHING--IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE RANDOM BY LAW!

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

9. Sounds like...

The fat is in the fire now.

And in The Times, no less. 'bout time they smelled the fart in the elevator.

[proudtobeadem]

83. LOL that is FUNNY!!!

[bear425]

10. Thank you Will! Is our train finally leaving the station? n/t

[BrotherBuzz]

58. A lot of us are still boarding it!

Looking for directions to the train I asked the conductor where I should board. He said "Go left and you'll be right, got right and you'll be left". ;)

[TexasChick]

11. Geez, Louise! Great find, Will!

This is pretty outrageous," Mr. Conyers said. "We want to pursue it as vigorously as we can."


Damn straight, it's outrageous, Conyers, but the Repuketards want us to stop crying in our tea cups and get over stolen elections!


Edited to add an afterthought that I had.

[freeplessinseattle]

13. WOW! My spirit just lifted miles up, thank you! now I need to go run

down the sidewalk to free this feeling..

[The Doctor.]

16. "Run Freepless... Run!"

[freeplessinseattle]

95. "You are (all) the wind beneath my wings" lol! I feel goo-od! (nt)

[The Doctor.]

14. This is a start...

It has to hit CNN without snickers...

but check this out;

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x159452

[AmerDem]

15. It finally went main stream

Let's hope it continues.

[sepia_steel]

18. Thanks, William!!!

[enough]

17. "I've been doing this since 1985," he whined.

snip>

But Brett Rapp, the president of Triad, said that although it would be unusual for an employee to ask about a specific precinct, preparing the machines for a recount was standard procedure and was done in all 41 counties where Triad handles vote counts. He added that he welcomed any investigation.

"I've been doing this since 1985, and in all my experience this is the first time that we have had any complaints whatsoever," Mr. Rapp said.

snip>

[TexasChick]

38. Uh, well, gee, Mr. Rapp, do you think that the reason you got any

complaints now is because this is the first time you were caught?

[ClassWarrior]

47. I smell a new Triad slogan...

"Undermining Democracy Since 1985."

NGU.

[TexasChick]

54. ROLF!! OMG, ClassWarrior! That one had me on the floor!! n/t

[goclark]

146. Class Warrior truer words were never spoken

They just got caught this time.

May they all rot in hell!

[peacetalksforall]

51. Can an IT person say or guess what is meant by 'preparing' the

machines for a recount?

[Virginian]

135. Zeroing counters.

There should be two counters in the machine that have nothing to do with the votes. They count the voters.

One counter, the protective counter, is like an odometer on your car. It keeps track of how many voters have used the machine since it came into service. That number does not get rolled back just as your car's odometer does not get rolled back.

The other counter, the public counter, is like a trip odometer. It gets reset every election just as you would reset your car's trip odometer before a trip or when you get gas.

The software probably has a lockout feature to keep votes from being added after the polls close. That would have to be unlocked in order to use the machine for a recount.

[godel escher bach]

168. At least someone is asking the pertinent questions n/t

[jamboi]

93. Gee, that makes me feel better... not! n/t

[Patsy Stone]

129. I know

I snipped that too. Remember Nixon? He just got caught...

[Kellis]

186. "I am not a crook"

[catnhatnh]

210. I,ve been doing this since 1985...

...and this is the first time in my experience we've had a complaint... Sammy "The Bull" Gravano on bungled mob hit...

[Verve]

19. Thank you MR CONYERS!!! And thank you WillPITT for reporting! n/t

[Scout1071]

20. WOW

They are finally starting to pay attention. Prepare for phase 3 of Ghandi quote!

[VTGold]

21. Cool! He's wrote a NYT article on BBV in September n/t

[merh]

23. Someone's got some splaining to do!

Oh Boy, it is just a slow, steady flow of :wtf:

Thanks Will!

[Slit Skirt]

24. you know if this is the beginning...

the heat must keep on.....I applaud all the DUers that worked so hard to get the facts on this....would've never happened without you....

[seito]

29. Thanks to all you Patriots

:toast:

Remember, this is just the beginning.

[anitar1]

37. The Beginning--You are All Great! nt

[marylanddem]

118. DU keeps me sane

Don't know how I couldve survived this post-election period without the true patriots who inhabit this truly democratic underground

[BeFree]

25. They need an expert

To look at the machine and trace activities performed on it. It should be impounded immediately.

I take it Hocking is punch ballots?

[TexasChick]

45. Question: I remember Kerry's letter stating something to the effect of

looking over and inspecting the machines or no? Can't remember.

[merh]

46. Actually, I believe that it is highly inappropriate, if not illegal,

for someone to tamper with the voting equipment without others being present, you know, like the representatives of the candidates.

The question is why was the tech allowed to work on the equipment without proper supervision and witnesses.

[Quakerfriend]

48. Time to GO,GO ,GO with this!!

[proud patriot]

27. no shit

:wow:

[ccarter84]

28. I don't normally say this..but w00000t

:bounce:

[The Doctor.]

32. Conyers and Co. need to get a list of all Triad techs...

and verify their whereabouts for the past week with special regard to proximity to county offices.

[Stand and Fight]

101. Good idea.

I recommend that you email Representative Conyers with your recommendation. That is truly a first-class idea!

:toast:

[The Doctor.]

124. Thanks! got that address?

I'm lazy like that...

[JohnOneillsMemory]

140. Every damn machine under lock and key AND video camera. n/t

[crispini]

33. That's more the fuck like it!

Jeez, I need a smoke. This has been a helluva day.

[Pirate Smile]

34. Are the comments about posting numbers on the wall (?), etc.

that Cobb stated at the hearing included in the affidavits?

I wonder why that wasn't that included in the article.

[sunnystarr]

76. I believe it's in the writer's "Among other things" part lol

Great job Will :):):)

[WritersBlock]

77. That's what I was wondering. Sounds almost exactly the same MO

But I'm just freakin' ecstatic that it's hit the mainstream!

Thanks, Mr Pitt!!

[marylanddem]

35. Wonder how many Ohio counties/precincts

have now been post-election/pre-recount fucked with by Triad?
This is astounding news & good for the New York Times for covering it.

[shraby]

43. Seems that in the Daily Kos article

they redid all of them.

[marylanddem]

57. Thanks!

I'll check out that story.

[godel escher bach]

155. Yes, and they also gave what sounds...

... like a valid reason for doing so. I'm not voting machine expert so I have no idea if Triad telling the truth about why they visited all the locations thsat use their voting machines. A lot of people here seem to already know all about these voting machines and what is involved in getting them ready to do a recount.

[autorank]

88. See Post #82 for a map of Triad GSI Voting Systems OH Counties

[Kellis]

36. *BIG-SMILE*

NICE!

If we can make it here we can make it ANywhere!
New York
New Yooooork!

:dem:

Thanks WIll

[intelle]

39. Thanks Will

At long last, some real MSM attention. Looking forward to seeing the affidavits.

:toast:

[ClassWarrior]

40. Okay people - fire up those media blasters!!

We have a credible MSM source now.

NGU.

[WilliamPitt]

42. HOLD A BIT

I have the affadavits on .pdf and am putting together a truthout breaking story that will combine this, the affadavits, the letter to the FBI and the Cobb testimony.

The hardest part of this is explaining it all to reporters coherently. Wait for my page and we will have it all in one spot.

[ClassWarrior]

53. Sounds good.

NGU.

[Sydnie]

55. Thanks so much for the update Will! n/t

[Alizaryn]

62. Will have you seen this article? Think it's a coincidence?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/12/7/102158/847

[carolinalady]

41. My question is -Why do the Triad people say they came and

touched the machines in the first place?

[godel escher bach]

138. They say it's because the machines had to....

...be readjusted to count the presidential choice only during the recount since none of the other races are in question.

Why would they come out and admit this publicly ? Well, one reason is that they may be telling the truth. I certainly don't know if they are lying or not.

My gut feeling is that this is a big nothing.

[txindy]

156. Well, your gut has misled you

We know from Cobb's testimony at the hearing that the then-unnamed source (Sherole Eaton) told him how the Triad technician erased all of the data on the machine and then encouraged the BOE to post fraudulent numbers that would match whatever the recount came up with. That technician, his bosses, and the other BOE members are going to be in for some very 'interesting' holidays.

Ohio will be ours, again. Just as it was on November 2nd.

[godel escher bach]

172. Well, I doubt it, but...

...I could be wrong. Carry on - your enthusiasm seems to be infectious.

[merh]

164. After the votes have been certified to and a recount ordered,

none of the voting equipment should be "adjusted" unless the representatives of all of the candidates and representatives of the BOE/SOS are in attendance.

No legitimate adjustments should have been made without the proper witnesses and supervision.

[godel escher bach]

169. Please provide a link to this rule. Thanks n/t

[merh]

174. It is what Blackwell has based his "lockdown" of December 10

I don't have the rule/law at my fingertips, but please feel free to research it to prove me wrong. Haahaahaa, Blackwell can't defend is lockdown using this reasoning without being obligated to follow it relative to access by technicians. Sort of caught in his own pitard ain't he!

It is long standing rules regarding voting and elections and ballots, why the f*ck do you think that they lock the ballot boxes? :wtf:

heeheee, caught in his own pitard. Go research and prove me wrong, if you find something, then I will gladly apologize. :silly:

[merh]

184. Oh, here you go, in Will's article is the reference to the code section.

Well, it's actually Rep Conyer's letter

Second, the course of conduct would also appear to violate several provisions of Ohio law. No less than 4 provisions of the Ohio Revised Code make it a felony to tamper with or destroy election records or machines.1 Clearly, modifying election equipment in order to make sure that the hand count matches the machine count would appear to fall within these proscriptions.

(Snip)

Moreover, bringing in Triad officials into other Ohio Counties would also appear to violate Ohio Revised Code § 3505.32 which provides that during a period of official canvassing, all interaction with ballots must be "in the presence of all of the members of the board and any other persons who are entitled to witness the official canvass," given that last Friday, the Ohio Secretary of State has issued orders to the effect that election officials are to treat all election materials as if they were in a period of canvassing,2 and that "Teams of one Democrat and one Republican must be present with ballots at all times of processing."

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/121604Z.shtml

Gotcha!

[godel escher bach]

217. Thanks.

bald : )))))))

[ClintCooper2003]

44. Hocking County is really tiny... and it's one of the counties where...

Kerry picked up a substantial percentage of votes in comparison to Gore from 2000. (Check out uselectionatlas.org - there are no real "links" to there site, so you'll just have to type it in)

[godel escher bach]

180. Unfortunately, no one really cares about this type of information.

There is no possible way for anyone posting on this thread tonight to know that fraud was committed, yet it has somehow become an established fact that fraud occurred. It may turn out to be true - that fraud really did take place. But if this story goes nowhere, our credibilty goes down another notch and no one seems to care about that.

[Sideways]

185. OUR Credibility Is Fine

Who cares what you think?

[Kellis]

187. LOL

exactly.Seems the people following election fraud have one reaction and those that have just registered have another.

Whats up with that?

[ClintCooper2003]

189. Well, we certainly should not jump to conclusions based on this...

information alone. There might be a reasonable explanation for all this. Although I do have a hard time getting past the rather "odd" comments the techie made regarding the "cheat sheet."

[witchhazl]

50. Thank you WilliamPitt

:loveya: :loveya: :loveya:

(Edited to add more hearts. One wasn't enough)

[Catherine Vincent]

52. Thanks, Will!

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!

edited to add Proud Patriot's Whee!!:-)

[Richard D]

56. yiiiifuckinghaaaa

Good work. This is starting to look like it might get interesting. Really interesting.

[farmbo]

59. "Three enemy carriers sunk...a fourth heavily damaged..."

...Midway is secure."

:bounce:

[milkyway]

60. Sounds like they won't be doing a hand recount of Hocking County.

The report says they did a recount in one precinct yesterday (presumably by hand); since no discrepancies were found, they won't be required to hand count the entire county.

Looking forward to Will's report with affidavits.

[marylanddem]

66. Yes, but

"no discrepancies" may have been found in every precinct because the technician "adjusted" all precincts, even if he only inquired as to which one they planned to recount. Who knows what the hell he did? I think this should throw the 3 percent thing out the window.

[Vote4Kerry]

61. BEAUTIFUL--Best news of the day! Thanks!..n/t

[Slit Skirt]

63. just emailed the media

with NY times article
Mary Beth Cahill's statement
and plea from Ohio voters (found on a thread here)

asked them if they could end the media blackout and cover it now

asked them if they would not do it to fight for their country, could they please do it so that OTHER PEOPLE COULD.........

[Stand and Fight]

109. You need to check your facts before you do that...

Mary Beth Cahill's statement is from 3AM on November 3rd -- they'll notice this and wonder about your credibility since you didn't bother to look at the date.

[Slit Skirt]

130. you're right and thank you!

[tsuki]

197. You Go!

[garybeck]

64. unfortunately if you take the Triad phone call into account

they have an "explanation"...

on Kos and copied on DU, a phone call with a rep from Triad revealed that every tabulator used in the recount must be adjusted so that only the presidential votes are counted.

[marylanddem]

68. I have a bridge I'll sell you

if you buy that explanation.

[shraby]

74. That's called a CYA phone call.

Bwaaahaaaa!

[Matariki]

80. but he also said they didn't have any machines in that county (?)

[godel escher bach]

159. Yes, and the explanation they give has the ring of....

..truth (IN MY OPINION.) I don't want to bust bubbles here, but I doubt there is a single person who replied to this thread that understands what it takes to prepare a Triad voting machine for a recount. I sure don't. How can this be labelled FRAUD already ?

I'm think that this may be nothing. But, I'm not positive, so please, Carry On. (and try to keep your hopes in check, just in case : ))

[troubleinwinter]

193. Puhleez. You have spent entirely too much energy already.

[tsuki]

198. Nixon had an explanation.

[fiddlestix]

65. It's about time!

I get home delivery of the NYTimes...and have been searching for something...ANYTHING about Ohio...today, there was a little paragraph in the "round-up" section...no editorials...no "Letters to the Editor"...it's like if it isn't covered in the NYT, it didn't actually happen!

Thank you for making me feel sane...

[kerry2win]

67. if this is illegal how can ohio be valid?

I know it will never happen (revote) but the whole vote is in question now even if b**h won there's no credibility in it now only a revote would make it valid. people of law correct me please...its blackwells fault he's in charge, the buck stops there, somebody's head should roll...his

[whirlygigspin]

79. unfreaping beleivable

"preparing the machines for a recount was standard procedure and was done in all 41 counties where Triad handles vote counts..."

yes,now just let me prepare my urine sample for your random drug test

:mad:

[marylanddem]

84. Source of this comment?

If they're actually using this as an explanation for invading the machines, I'd find it totally unbelievable -- whether or not a recount would even occur has been so speculative, who gave them the go-ahead???? Somebody had to.

[txindy]

119. It's from the NYTimes article, itself n/t

[Alizaryn]

127. They said I believe that Blackwell required it to wipe the other

non-presidential candidates off the ballots.

[godel escher bach]

162. You dismiss this statement, but how do you...

...know it's not true ? I have no idea whether it's true ot not, but it sounds reasonable. Do you have inside information about what is involved in getting a Triad voting machine ready for a recount - that what they did is not standard procedure ? I don't.

I hope it's fraud, but I doubt it; however, I'm not certain it isn't fraud either, so carry on.

[kerry2win]

181. I'm sober all the time

I have no excuse for my stupidity, I was born that way....thanks for the offer though.

[troubleinwinter]

194. FUNNIEST POST OF THE DAY AWARD to you!

[idealista]

70. confused about the 3% process

In the Times article I believe they indicated that after hand counting the 3% precincts, they fed those ballots thru the machine and if there was no discrepancy, counted the rest by machine.

That sounds like the purpose of the 3% count is just to see if the machine is working right! That is, if by "discrepancy" they mean to compare the hand and machine RECOUNTS instead of comparing the hand count to the election night machine count.

Haven't they released precinct-by precinct totals? Or is this some of the info that Blackwell has been refusing to divulge, even to County election workers?

Also - it is hard to even guess what the guy was doing/could have been doing when we know so little about how the machines/software works, which is of course because they insist on it being proprietary and secret!

[chalky]

71. Please don't flame--please explain...

"Ms. Eaton contends that the Triad employee asked which precinct Hocking County planned to count as its representative 3 percent, and, upon being told, made further adjustments to the machine.

"County officials decided to use a different precinct when the recount was done yesterday. No discrepancies were found."

So does this mean votes from a different precinct were run through the adjusted machine without problems? Or were the votes from the different precinct run through another machine? Help me! I'm confused...
:dunce:

[marylanddem]

78. It is very confusing

But if this pre-recount messing with the machines is being done everywhere, I can't believe that only 3 percent of precincts will be recounted. It's just a horrific situation

[Stand and Fight]

116. It is Ohio law. n/t

Here's what Section 3515 of the Ohio Revised Code says about the recount process:

* The board must randomly select whole precincts whose total equals at least 3% of the total vote, and must manually count.
* If the tabulator count does not match the hand count, and after rechecking the manual count the results are still not equal, all ballots must be hand counted. If the results of the tabulator count and the hand counted ballots are equal, the remainder of the ballots may be processed through the tabulator (for optical scan and punchcards).
SOURCE: http://www.votecobb.org/recount/daily_update/

Allow me to explain. If there is no difference with the 3% so-called "random" recount by hand, then the remaining 97% are fed through the machines to finish the recount. However, if there are significant discrepancies with the initial hand recount of the "random" 3% then all votes -- that is the remaining 97% -- are counted by hand.

Also, here's the source for the actual Ohio revised code:
http://serform2.sos.state.oh.us/sos/elections/statewide/provisions_recounts.htm

[idealista]

212. but do they mean a "tabulator count" from electon day, or a new

"tabulator count" done at the time of the recount? If so, why can't they compare a new tabulator count to the original one? Don't they keep separate precinct count records?

Does anyone KNOW what the law means, or is it ambiguous (i.e. one more place Blackwell can "interpret")?

[shraby]

141. Concerning the 3%....

it looks to me like they adjusted the machines to give correct totals for the recounts. That way all the 3% would come out the same as the hand count they did before running them through the machine. This would effectively stop any hand recounts of the whole county from commencing.

There might turn up a couple of votes off one way or the other for Bush or Kerry, but probably not more than 1-5 just by chance.

The goal would be to have no county-wide hand counts. That's why the couple of 3% counts done so far have been spot on...the machines CAN count votes correctly.

[chalky]

170. Ahhhhh...I see.

:think:

[GregD]

87. yesterday's story

http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=490

[SaveAmerica]

72. Sherole Eaton - my hero (stay safe) n/t

[IndyOp]

73. The Triad techs might have been planting software that could count

in two different ways - like having two sets of books --

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x159702>

[shraby]

81. Or he might have been covering all

precincts just in case.

[marylanddem]

94. Yeah, that's what I think

Probably asked "which precinct" as kind of casual question - maybe even a deliberate diversion - but went in & adjusted all precincts???

[chalky]

97. I get that part--

The part I don't get is what happened after the different precinct sample was run.

Was it done on the machine he'd adjusted?
Or was that done on another machine?
And what is the significance of that "no discrepancy found" bit?

[proudtobeadem]

104. Bingo, like switching the ballots.

[merh]

166. Or could have been removing the software or hardware

that allowed for the false tabulations. That would be my guess.

[autorank]

82. MAP--OHIO Customers of Triad Government Systems Inc.-Voting

http://www.votingindustry.com/VR_Review/2nd%20Tier/PDFs/triadcustomers.pdf

They cover the entire state. Oops!

Good choice to handle the Republican agenda!

[shraby]

86. Diebold was Rove's "look over here"

wasn't it? Plant the memo of "giving Ohio to Bush", no paper trail. Meanwhile back at the ranch..Triad is doing the heavy lifting.

[autorank]

89. ***???*** didn't get that memo, tell me more please.

[shraby]

100. A memo that Wally Diebold made

was put on the internet that said he would deliver Ohio to Bush.

[autorank]

108. Got it. Remember that one. Maybe Rove's REPLY will show up. haha

[marylanddem]

90. WHO AUTHORIZED Triad to screw with the machines?

???

[Pirate Smile]

111. I bet his initial are KB.

[IndyOp]

158. Who Authorized Triad to screw? Blackwell..

Check out this post at DailyKos (keep in mind that some are doubting whether the interviewer, a newbie, is legit)...

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x159007>

[godel escher bach]

165. Did they screw with them, or...

...were they doing standard procedure to prepare for a recount ? Triad says that what they did was standard procedure and must be done before the recount could commence. Almost everyone on this thread says it must be fraud. Does everyone here know something I don't ? Is it possible that Triad is telling the truth ? How is everyone certain this points to fraud ? Thanks.

[milkyway]

91. Don't forget this tampering incident by an ES&S employee in Ohio:

Two weeks before the election, there was an incident of tampering with a voting machine in Auglaize that was reported in a local newspaper. Here's the relevant paragraphs:

In a letter dated Oct. 21, Ken Nuss, former deputy director of the Auglaize County Board of Elections, claimed that Joe McGinnis, a former employee of Election Systems and Software (ES&S), the company that provides the voting system in Auglaize County, was on the main computer that is used to create the ballot and compile election results, which would go against election protocol. Nuss claimed in the letter that McGinnis was allowed to use the computer the weekend of Oct. 16.

Nuss, who resigned from his job Oct. 21 after being suspended for a day, was responsible for overseeing the computerized programming of election software, according to his job description. His resignation is effective Nov. 11.

http://www.theeveningleader.com/articles/2004/11/06/news/news.01.txt

So a former ES&S employee was caught tampering with the machine that compiles the election results. I have found no further information about this incident.

I have posted this info before, but let me repeat it here. The name McGinnis pops up a lot when reading about ES&S. There are at least four of them. Dan McGinnis is a VP of ES&S. http://lists.electorama.com/pipermail/election-methods-electorama.com/2001-September/006610.html

There is also a Keith McGinnis. Three of the four McGinnis's were at this meeting in Indiana. http://www.in.gov/sos/elections/iec/minutes/min12799.html

So Joe McGinnis, who was caught tampering with a computer in Auglaize County, Ohio a couple of weeks before the election, is not just any employee. Apparently, he's related to top management.

The Evening Leader's article describes Joe McGinnis as a former employee. I wonder why. Also, Ken Nuss, who disclosed the tampering, was suspended for one day and subsequently resigned.

[marylanddem]

98. Sounds like the whistleblower was fired!

Thanks for the information. The plot thickens.

[shraby]

115. That probably covered the other

counties that Triad didn't have. Should see if those machines were "adjusted" for the recount too.

[milkyway]

137. ES&S and Triad are used in most of the 88 Ohio counties.

If you're interested, here's a post of mine from a couple of weeks ago about ES&S and other voting machine companies.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=98730&mesg_id=98730&page=

[Action Jackson]

102. what a wonderful desert

to the amazing dinner i had tonight. mmm. mmm. good. delicious. let's kick some ass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thanks everyone!

[Karenca]

123. thats so weird, as soon as you mentioned dessert and dinner, I just knew

you lived in NYC.

strange, but
true.

[Action Jackson]

139. yes, and it was a New York classic

Generally I'm a health food nut but tonight I feasted on Peter Luger.

[Karenca]

150. yes !!

Once a year for me....
Takes me a weEk to recuperate from a Luger steak!

Why cany more of our Dem leaders be like Conyers? :))

[proudtobeadem]

107. Whoa this is good stuff, how come I didn't see it before??

[milkyway]

120. This is the only media report I've ever seen about this. It's been

referred to a few times on other web sites. Significantly, John Conyers letter to Katherine Blackwell directly asked him about this incident (I think it was in Conyers' second letter of additional questions for Blackwell).

[proudtobeadem]

96. YYYEEEAAAAHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks Will :)

[Melissa G]

99. Thanks Will for the good news and your great reporting!

As soon as I survive the holidays I am sending Truthout some bucks. Hope everyone else does too!

[Not_Without_A_Fight]

103. Can you spell C-O-V-E-R-U-P ?????? n/t

[Shalom]

106. FUCK THIS 3% BULLSHIT RIGHT NOW !!

After this crap, there is NO FUCKING WAY we will accept any of this 3% bullshit and partial recounts from Mr. "Uncle Tom" Blackheart.

Every friggin vote in the entire state of Ohio MUST BE RECOUNTED under close supervision.

If we accept anything else, we are the biggest dupes imaginable, and deserve to genuflect and kowtow for four more unbearable years before his eminence, the POS POTUS, the cowardly cokehead commander-in-thief, George Walker Bushitler !

[Sydnie]

110. Nothing less will do!

We must insist that they count every damn ballot. Of course, I would prefer a revote just to be sure that we can watch everything from beginning to end to assure that no one is left in line, in the wrong line or any other supressive measures are allowed to take place.


Your description of * is good but after hearing that commercial on AAR (the comedian -- don't remember his name) I just can't get the mental picture of "President Rainman" out of my mind! "yeah Iraq, definately Iraq" LOL

[Shalom]

117. RECOUNT, REVOTE, AND REVOLT !!!!

Words can never adequately denigrate or diss the filthy Nazi bastard slime who came from a virulent form of flesh-eating-virus, to become the most powerful person on this earth.

But we can still try ! ;-)

[kedrys]

112. Thanks Will!

Keep up the great work, and stay safe! :loveya:

[4democracy]

113. Cobb said yesterday in his testimony, the guy switched actual

parts, so who knows what he did to the machine.

[chalky]

114. What's alarming me--

is the stuff I read buried in this thread on dailyKos about Black(un)well having the techs adjust the machines to suppress the other races????

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/12/14/192336/68

Is there anyway we can stop this?!?? This is just ASKING for them to re-steal!

[Karenca]

122. REVOTE...WE NEED A REVOTE!!

These ballots and machines and recOunts and provisionals, and etc etc are ALL FUCKED UP!
REVOTE!!!!!.........PLEASE........

[Shalom]

143. Don't Ask for a Revote - DEMAND IT ! nt

[pattyloutwo]

126. Yay!

Thank you for your articulate writings and updates, Will.

[Name removed]

128. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[shraby]

131. Bye Bye

:hi:

[sockpuppet]

132. Bye Bye?

[chalky]

134. You know what? Maybe Kerry DID suck.

Maybe the American voters just said, "We's scaird! Save us, Chimpy!"

But how the hell can we know that, really, if THE FREAKIN' VOTES WERE SUPPRESSED and the ones we do have AREN'T COUNTED????

So just STFU and let us practice a little democracy here, 'kay?

Thanks so much for stopping by.

[sockpuppet]

144. Thank you for the welcome.

I wasn't aware that the posting police were following me. I will try to refrain from any REALITY until you approve. I didn't see the part of the agreement where I had to get your approval before posting.

[chalky]

154. Well, I DID say "thanks", didn't I?

And don't try to turn an argument against your "REALITY" into a meme that I'M trying to suppress YOUR voice.

[Shalom]

152. Kerry was AWESOME, Slammed Bushitler in All 3 Debates..

No one is perfect, including Kerry.

But how could America choose the flesh-eating virus that was causing it's children to come home from Iraq in wooden boxes (no one could see), full of charred body parts ?

[marylanddem]

136. Hi, sockpuppet

Who's sockpuppet are you?

[sockpuppet]

149. Hi back!

I'm driven solely by the the voices in my head. Majority rule!

[milkyway]

148. Your baseball analogy is garbled on a few points. Hanging curveballs,

by definition, are not low. They are up, where the batter can crush them. Low and over the outside corner is a pitcher's best location for a curve ball, not a mistake as you suggest. And also, all curveballs are "slow."

Welcome to DU.

[sockpuppet]

151. Sorry

So I'm mot a big BB fan. The analogy still stands.

[Pirate Smile]

157. Have you read the Washington Post article coming out tomorrow.

Here is the link.

It may give you a little bit more information on why many people around here are skeptical of the results in Ohio (and the Post downplays just about everything but they do include many of the large variety of screw ups that people here already discovered).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A64737-2004Dec14.html

[sockpuppet]

161. So far all I've seen

is supposition innuendo and false hopes. When the proof hits the fan wake me up. Till then, It's bedtime.

[Joe Chi Minh]

200. The fan

will become caked up so quickly, it'll just sound like a car exhaust backfiring in the far distance.

[Blue in the face]

179. Holy Shit the Times and the Post on the same day!

Seriously, the tide is turning...

[Kellis]

160. LOL

[Catherine Vincent]

163. If you don't want to question the vote fraud in Ohio and other states,

why are you here disrupting us? May I suggest you open an account at freerepublic.com and hang out over there.

[Matariki]

188. nevermind

[unpossibles]

171. FACE FACTS! We ran a N.Eastern Aristocrat as a man of the people.

yes you did - his name is George W. Bush, a NE Aristocrat "cowboy" who is afraid of horses and the people.

We, on the other hand, ran a NE Aristocrat who has a solid ethical track record and is intelligent.

You actually believe the spin doctors now?

[Shalom]

182. Exactly! nt

[txindy]

133. Sherole Eaton is the Deputy Director of Hocking County's BOE.

And a Democrat. The Director, Lisa Schwartze, is a republican. http://www.acluohio.org/voting_resources.htm#hocking
Bad, Lisa. You didn't do your duty and report the Triad 'adjustment'. Tsk, tsk, Lisa. I see many court appearances and a sudden career change in your future. Sooner rather than later, too. :evilgrin:

[shraby]

153. No matter what excuse they use for

adjusting the machines, it shouldn't have been done without knowledgeable representatives present from all interested parties. That's a no-no.

[shiina]

177. It's a step.

At least there was a story in the MSM about it, but it was really cool. They only put in the allegations that they had a reasonable-sounding explaination for. There was a lot more (see the link on post #87) that they left out.

Reading the NYT article, it doesn't sound that suspicious...but it's very suspicious once you get the whole story. I just see this as another attempt to say we're crazy and groundless.

[tsuki]

199. They'll go after Eaton. Wait.

[tandem5]

175. nifty! n/t

[ClintCooper2003]

190. The most confusing aspect of it concerns the techie asking which precinct

will be counted. That does seem odd. It could be that he asked that in every county, but only certain counties had fraudulent results? It certainly doesn't seem like Hocking has fraudulent results when you consider that Kerry made some serious gains and almost took the county.

[ClintCooper2003]

191. Are there two different deputy directors of election in Hocking County?

check out this link: http://www.electioncentral.com/county.asp?CountyID=37

[txindy]

205. Hard to tell which list is most recent

But the link you have shows the members' terms expiring either earlier this year or in 2002. :shrug:

[EuroObserver]

192. ... (offtopic) don't forget florida

...see here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x159249

[abluegirl]

195. Resetting the machines

In Arnebeck's lawsuit it says that votes were switched to other candidates, and said the supreme court justice wasn't really elected. So, if the machines were "reset" to only count the presidential votes, that little problem of the supreme court justice would go away, wouldn't it?

[tsuki]

196. Expect to hear a lot of negative things about Sherole Eaton. The

attack will come.

[Kellis]

209. oh yeah.

Count on it.This is going to get ugly.They are already trying to confuse the issue and cover their ass's.

[texpatriot2004]

201. Well Hot Damn. Thanks Will n/t

[ihelpu2see]

202. The problem now is the MSM being controlled by News from

IRAQ!!! With the war crime trial ramping up, Chimp and Co. will control the lead from now until Spring..... And most of the US may never here of the Election Fraud in Ohio and Fl.

Impeach Cheney and Bush that may be the only way..

[nmoliver]

203. what page of the NYTimes did this appear on? tnx n/t

[mattclearing]

204. Yeah Will, kickin it G-style...

Awesome coverage. Hopefully this will force access to the rest of the records before they can clean it up further.

[Vidar]

207. Thanks to Will for posting & the NYT for covering this.

[themistoclea]

208. first time post, please create a new thread for me

Hi everyone:

This is my first post. I wanted everyone to know that Lewis Lapham of Harper's magazine has written a long editorial for the January issue of his magazine. He argues that their are two interpretations of why the Dems lost, and ends up siding with the fraud story. It might not be on the stands yet, but I'm a subscriber and I received mine yesterday.

Since I can't start a new thread yet, maybe someone else could copy this info?? Thanks!

[mbee]

211. Thank you so much - this is

finally the beginning of the end for the evil ones (I hope)!

[BlueCentrist]

213. wow!

I can't believe its finally happening!!