The TRIAD Cover Story: FAKE BALLOTS MAY LIE BEHIND THE TRUTH

[Chasing Dreams]

TRIAD's president claims it sent staff into Ohio to re-program machines because it is standard procedure in a recount to only count the race in question, and to set up the vote tabulating computers accordingly. I believe this is true--that is, this is what the Triad guys did in Ohio last week.

And now we find that even in some precincts OTHER than the one's originally intended to be recounted by hand, there are no discrepancies between the machine count and the hand count.

DUers: Does it makes any sense to you that it would be necessary to re-program the computers to ONLY count Presidential votes? Of course not. Who would care? Well, I guess that would matter IF AND ONLY IF THE BASTARDS SWITCHED THE PAPER BALLOTS OVER THE LAST SEVERAL WEEKS TO MAKE SURE THE HAND COUNT MATCHED THE MACHINE COUNT!

A ballot switch would be easy if you only had to re-punch the presidential election, and could just randomly punch the other elections so they looked like real ballots. Indeed, it is very unlikely that the fascists would have taken the time to ensure that the other races on the fake ballots matched the original Nov. 3 totals.

The following will be true if the REAL ballots were replaced with FAKES:

1. The presidential hand count will show no problems.

2. Other vote totals in other races on the ballots will be off, but we won't know it because TRIAD has changed the counting software to only count the Presidential race.

3. MOST IMPORTANTLY, THERE WILL ONLY BE A LIMITED SET OF FINGERPRINTS ON THE BALLOTS: THOSE OF TRIAD, OTHER CO-CONSPIRATORS, ELECTION OFFICIALS WHO RUN THEM THROUGH THE MACHINES. BUT THE INDIVIDUAL VOTER'S FINGERPRINTS WILL NOT BE ON THE BALLOTS.

If possible, please pass on these thoughts to our very patriotic and brave attorneys / investigators in Ohio. Thank you!

[tandem5]

1. good point...

I hadn't seen that part about machines having to be set for only the race that is to be recounted. Can you give me a link that specific statement?

[Chasing Dreams]

2. The story was on DailyKos

"The Sec of State has specific guidelines on the way in which a recount is to be conducted. Follows is how the process relates to the punch card tabulators.


The tabulator machines must be adjusted to report votes counted ONLY for president during the recount."

Here's the link:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/12/14/192336/68

[tandem5]

3. Thank you n/t

[ClintCooper2003]

4. Yes, but then they would have had to take the time to falsely punch

thousands upon thousands of ballots for every race, so it would be undetectable to the naked eye.

[Junkdrawer]

5. A long time ago, there were machines that could be programmed to punch...

punchcards.

[roseBudd]

16. Yes check out the links on cardamation.com

http://www.cardamation.com/

check out the info on something called card punches

You can also buy punch card ballots or rent machinery.

[Junkdrawer]

37. Well, that would make it easy to counterfeit ballots....

A little too easy...

[roseBudd]

39. Yes and you could program the card punch to punch the holes that

you needed to have punched to meet the tally you needed, once you culled Kerry punched ballots and replaced them with Bush ballots.

I wonder how common this legacy equipment is and whether or not this co. has had any recent OH business?

[IndyOp]

8. ClintCooper --

please see my post below about how they might manage fraud with new software and some new paper records...

[Chasing Dreams]

9. Yes, but they wouldn't necessarily have to be accurate.

All you need is to have them punched somewhat randomly so they LOOK like real ballots.

[WritersBlock]

6. He mentioned Blackwell's guidelines for the recount.....

Does anybody know if these are available online? I've looked on the Ohio SOS site, but don't seem to see it.

I was, however, impressed by the huge text in the center of the page that says:

Vote
Start a Business
Run for Office

(and)

Build Character

And who says Americans can't do irony? :eyes:

[IndyOp]

7. Their cover-up does NOT have to involve fake ballots!

Their cover-up could involve making it difficult/impossible to tell which labels were on the Votomatics in each precinct on election day and/or installing new software in the punch card readers...

Recounters must see Votomatic labels & must de-compile programs!
<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x159702>

The cover-up could also involve some combination of new software and new records. This is a quote from David Cobb on Monday -- he is repeating what a witness told him:

“The Triad Systems representative suggested that since the hand recount had to match the machine count exactly and since it would hard to memorize the several numbers which would be needed to get the count exactly right, that they should post this series of numbers on the wall where they would not be noticed by observers such as to make them look like employee information or something similar.

“The people doing the hand count could then he said just report those numbers no matter what the actually counted in the ballot. This would then ‘match’ the tabulator report for this precinct exactly.

Minority leader of the House Judiciary Committee Rep. John Conyers (D-Mich.) replied, “David Cobb, I need to you to arrange a meeting with our staff immediately.”

more <http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=490>

[Chasing Dreams]

10. You are correct, their cover up does not HAVE to involve fake ballots.

You are probably right. But late last night I saw another possible explanation - the one noted here - and therefore used the word MAY in the tread title.

Anyway, can we all agree that the ballots need to be inspected, not just recounted?

[MrUnderhill]

11. How???

"IF AND ONLY IF THE BASTARDS SWITCHED THE PAPER BALLOTS OVER THE LAST SEVERAL WEEKS TO MAKE SURE THE HAND COUNT MATCHED THE MACHINE COUNT!"

88 Counties in Ohio... each with Boards of Elections that have Democrats on them... each responsible for their own ballots' safety/security.

HOW do you "switch" millions of paper ballots with identical looking ones that miraculously match the fake election count? Especially since the NUMBER of votes in each precinct has to match the actual votes, so any software tampering couldn't control an absolute count, just a relative one... so you'd have to do all of this AFTER the election. How do you do this under our noses?

How do you control WHICH precincts get counted in all of these counties when the board is 50/50 in each one of them?

This is getting a little out of hand.

[godel escher bach]

25. A little out of hand? We've gone off the deep end.

Even the fraud is fraudulent. Wow.

[CantGetFooledAgain]

12. Yes, this is a viable scenario

This seems to explain the observed facts. And, it leaves a very obvious test: if the non-presidential races don't recount accurately, the ballots are fake.

What to do? Insist on a count of the non-presidential races. Make absolutely sure that the ballots are secured. See how much resistance comes up to this perfectly reasonable request.

On edit: it is not outside the realm of possibility that a machine could punch fake ballots to exactly match the reported results in all races. Ballots should be physically examined for a determination of authenticity.

[roseBudd]

17. Yes I beleive it may be possible check out the specs on something called a

card punch from http://cardamation.com

80 COLUMN CARD PUNCHES


RP82 SERIES
These machines are On-Line units, typically connected via RS232C cable to a IBM PC serial port.
General specifications:

APERTURE CARD PRINTING READER-PUNCH
Reads-Prints-Punches Aperture Cards Safely
SECURITY
Engineered specifically for aperture cards
Minimizes possibility of abrasion
COMPATIBILITY
RS232C asynchronous ASCII serial interface
Communicates to most computers, including IBM PC and compatibles
VERSATILE PERFORMANCE
On-line batch reproduction and interpreting
Off-line buffered keypunching, card printing and verifying
STREAMLINED CONVENIENCE
Prints and punches cards in one pass
Performs both on-line and off-line
VALUE
Made in the U.S.A.
Replaces inefficient keypunches and interpreters
Saves space and time
DEPENDABILITY
Rugged construction
International service network
READS HOLLERITH PUNCHED DATA
APPLICATIONS
Print and punch cards in one pass.
Reproduce interspersed decks of master and diazo cards.
Read punched data into your computer or database.
FEATURES
Streamlined 80-column printing and punching
Specifically engineered for aperture cards
RS232C asynchronous ASCII serial interface
On-line batch duplication
Large print (30% enlargement over standard)
Selective punch and print suppression
MIL SPEC and commercial format punching and printing
Intersperse gang punch master and diazo cards on-line
Optional Dot-Matrix printing for improved quality and selectable 80/60 column printing
SPEED
Card Reading 200 cpm
Card Punching 30-45 cpm
Card Punching and Printing 30-45 cpm
CAPACITIES
Input Hopper 600 cards
Output Stacker 400 cards
SELF-DIAGNOSTIC FEATURES
Hopper Check
Stacker Check
Feed Check
Stacker-Feed Check
SPECIFICATIONS
Width................................ 48 inches (121.9 cm)
Height............................... 38 inches (96.5 cm)
Depth................................ 27 inches (68.6 cm)
Weight.............................. 300 pounds (136 kg)




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RP81
APERTURE CARD PRINTING READER-PUNCH
Reads/Prints/Punches Aperture Cards Safely
SECURITY
Engineered specifically for aperture cards
Minimizes possibility of abrasion
COMPATIBILITY
RS232C asynchronous ASCII serial interface
Communicates to most computers, including IBM PC's and compatibles
STREAMLINED CONVENIENCE
Titles and punches cards in one pass
Performs both on-line and off-line
On-screen data entry faster than key punching
VERSATILE PERFORMANCE
On-line batch reproducing and interpreting
Off-line buffered key-punching, card printing and verifying
VALUE
Made in the U.S.A.
Replaces inefficient keypunches and interpreters
Saves space, labor, and time
DEPENDABILITY
Rugged construction
International service network
READS HOLLERITH PUNCHED DATA
APPLICATIONS
Print and punch cards in one pass.
Reproduce interspersed decks of master and diazo cards.
Read punched data into your computer or database.
Off-line punching, reproducing, and interpreting.
FEATURES
Streamlined 80-column printing and punching
Specifically engineered for aperture cards
RS232C asynchronous ASCII serial interface
On-line batch duplication
Large print (30% enlargement over standard)
Selective punch and print suppression
MIL SPEC and commercial format punching and printing
Gang punch interleaved master and diazo cards on-line
Duplication of cards from data files
Distribution code duplication
Optional dot matrix printing available for improved print quality and 80/60 column printing
SPEED
Card Reading................................15 or 200 cpm
Card Punching........................................15 cpm
Card Punching and Printing..................... 15 cpm
CAPACITIES
Input Hoppers.......................................600 cards
Output Stackers...................................400 cards
SELF-DIAGNOSTIC FEATURES
Hopper Check
Feed Check
Stacker Check
Read Check
Stacker-Feed Check
SPECIFICATIONS
Width.............................................. 48 inches (121.9 cm)
Height............................................ 38 inches (96.5 cm)
Depth............................................. 27 inches (68.6 cm)
Weight........................................... 300 pounds (136 kg)

CARD PUNCH

Cardamation Rents Sells/Maintains IBM 3525 300 card per minute card
punches on-line to DOS PC Computer or an IBM Mainframe.
IBM 3525 parts and complete units available.

[Vinnie From Indy]

13. Nagging Doubts About Some Theories

I believe something is not right about the election, but I am having a hard time believing some of the scenarios being laid out here in regard to fixing the recount.

If Triad, or Diebold and ES&S, sent technicians to all 88 counties to fix the recount under the guise of setting up the machines, the circle of conspiracy would have to involve dozens of people. Involving that many people and keeping the conspiracy a secret would be highly unlikely. It strains credulity to imagine so many people would be in on the fix and not have it leak out.

[Chasing Dreams]

15. Wasn't it Reagan who said "Trust, But Verify"?

Well, I don't trust THEM and I certainly want verification.

Do you believe the single bullet theory?

Do you believe that certain individuals in our society can get around security alarms, locks, etc., and are quite willing to do so for big $$$?

Which of the above is more far-fetched?!

[pgh_dem]

29. not all 88 counties

As far as I know, the Arneback allegations focus on 36 counties. Either they have no evidence or reason to suggest the other 52 counties were tampered with.
The Greene County situation is evidence that ballots (although sealed) have been left unattended, which undermines the suggested necessity of complicity on the part of Dem BOE officials.
Even if Greene County was the only instance of such negligence, that leaves 35 counties where Dem BOE officials would 'have to be' incompetent or complicit. Implausible maybe, but certainly less implausible than all 88 counties.
On the other hand, it should be noted that Hocking County, the site of the current Triad weirdness, is not one of the counties addressed by Arneback's lawsuit.
Could be a red herring, could have an innocent explanation, who knows.
I'm not willing to extend the benefit of the doubt to people (Dem or Rep BOE) who have yet to acknowledge how badly they screwed up as far as the chilling effect on minority voting as a result of the distribution of (obsolete, broken, fraud-vulnerable) voting machines.

[righteous1]

14. In order for that theory to hold water

The 2 Democrat BOE officials would either have to be completely incompetent buffoons or complicit in the fraud and in many counties mind you.

[Chasing Dreams]

18. No, you just need a few well paid thieves to break into the key buildings

and switch the ballots. I do not believe Democratic BOE officials are part of any fraud whatsoever.

[righteous1]

In all the counties? Burglary usually leaves some evidence od a

crime if not in all instances, for sure in some. Was referring more to the ballot switching

[sunnystarr]

31. And what makes them Democrat?? Their voter registration?

Teresa LaPore was also listed as a Dem and was a Repuke in Dem clothing. If I registered Repuke would that make me one?

[pointsoflight]

19. No, it doesn't take a massive conspiracy or complicity

Remember, Blackwell ordered the machines to be "checked" and the non-presidential races to be suppressed. They were told that this is a part of the recount process. This directive therefore gave Triad the authority to get on the machines and tamper with them.

As for a massive conspiracy involving dozens, no, it does not require that. There are just 88 tabulators that would have to be "updated." The counties are starting the recounts on different days spread out over as much as two weeks. We've known the recounts were coming for several more weeks. So in all, we're talking about what, 4 weeks available to "set up" 88 computers? I'd think that three or four technicians could do that quite easily , and even those technicians wouldn't necessarily know what's in any "patch" that they install.

[roseBudd]

22. Not incompetent just computer illiterate trusting "folks"

These dems are probaly nice naive trusting people who have never thought about things like counterfeiting and hacking.

Also virtually anyone could be bribed or extorted. Anyone could be the proverbial "dirty cop"

[righteous1]

23. All 176 of them? n/t

[roseBudd]

24. No just the Triad counties

Money is counterfeited, banks are robbed, documents and paintings are forged. Where there is a will there is a way. Wrangler is the term used for someone who enages an election official in conversation to divert attention from fraudulent activity.

[righteous1]

26. How many counties have Triad machines? n/t

[tandem5]

33. nah all they have to do is not be in the building at night...

I assume they sleep... There was also that report about doors being left unlocked and ballot boxes being accessible. I'm not saying this is what happened, but you have to admit it is in the realm of possibility.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[trudyco]

27. Well we should take it in steps - easiest is to make sure

the voters guide was not switched. The people in charge of the recount need to take to elections officials and people who voted in that precinct to make sure the tabulators/hand recount are counting Kerry votes in the exact same punch number that voters did on election day.

Second I would see if a jamming device could be played in the vicinity of the tabulator in case it is getting programmed via wireless. A recounter should ask that all but 2 of the 3% ballots be run through the tabulator to make sure it wasn't pre-programmed.

Then you go after the poll books to make sure they didn't pad numbers that way - which considering the stonewalling may be a really good avenue.

Then you try to examine ballots, maybe even get fingerprints. I'm sure that would be the hardest to accomplish unless we had some indication that there was fraud.

[bearfan454]

41. Jamming device - very good point

They will do anything to steal our Democracy.

[genieroze]

28. Fingerprints? Do you mean physical fingerprints?

If so forgetaboutit. Fingerprints are hard enough to pull off of glass, forget about paper.

[MarkusQ]

30. I would not advise you to embark on a life of crime. (n/t)

[Igel]

32. Ohio state law bears on how they count.

"Does it makes any sense to you that it would be necessary to re-program the computers to ONLY count Presidential votes? Of course not. Who would care? Well, I guess that would matter IF AND ONLY IF THE BASTARDS SWITCHED THE PAPER BALLOTS OVER THE LAST SEVERAL WEEKS TO MAKE SURE THE HAND COUNT MATCHED THE MACHINE COUNT!"

http://onlinedocs.andersonpublishing.com/oh/lpExt.dll?f=templates&fn=main-h.htm&cp=PORC

"At the time and place fixed for making a recount, the board of elections, in the presence of all witnesses who may be in attendance, shall open the sealed containers containing the ballots to be recounted, and shall recount them. If a county used punch card ballots and if a chad is attached to a punch card ballot by three or four corners, the voter shall be deemed by the board not to have recorded a candidate, question, or issue choice at the particular position on the ballot, and a vote shall not be counted at that particular position on the ballot in the recount. Ballots shall be handled only by the members of the board or by the director or other employees of the board. Witnesses shall be permitted to see the ballots but they shall not be permitted to touch them, and the board shall not permit the counting or tabulation of votes shown on the ballots for any nomination, or for election to any office or position, or upon any question or issue, other than the votes shown on such ballots for the nomination, election, question or issue concerning which a recount of ballots was applied for."

[jmc777]

34. "I noticed stacks of boxes containing......prepunched ballots"

Slightly offtopic....


Remember this?

"In the press room in the back I noticed stacks of boxes containing “Votamatic” voting machines and “prepunched” ballots printed by ES&S of Addison, Texas, for the different precincts in Cook County. In the rear hallway behind the pressroom was the ES&S room. Only ES&S personnel
were allowed into the room."




Did anyone ever find out what those "prepunched ballots" were for?

[jmc777]

35. Kick.....

.....anyone know the answer to the question in post #34?


:kick:

[McCamy Taylor]

36. O.O

Damn, if the FBI wasnt under the thumb of Karl Rove and the White House it would have a field day with this one!

[Chasing Dreams]

38. kick

[NVMojo]

40. are they comparing the count results to the voter sign in logs?