Warren County Recount Update

[lizzieforkerry]

They put the rest of the ballots through the machine and they had +2 votes for * and +1 vote for Kerry. They will not allow us to see the poll books, provisionals, absentee ballots, under votes or over votes. A Triad rep was present for the recount. We were told we were being disingenuous and wasting taxpayers money. I am very upset.

[New Earth]

1. SOMEONE needs to step in get this shit to stop

they have to let people see the records. there is no way they can get away this, why isn't ANYONE doing anything to stop them???????

[MrUnderhill]

45. Not exactly.

A law that says the records must be available to everyone does NOT mean "at any time and at the moment they ask". They can probably impose rules on time and place, perhaps even require a fee to cover staff time and security, and restrict HOW you view something (e.g. "you may not touch anything, our staff must turn the pages, etc).

They would be completely justified in not entertaining such requests on the day they are performing a public recount. If a bunch of people show up at the door and say "let us see all the records from this election... and RIGHT NOW" they wouldn't be violating the access laws by saying "No".

[ElementaryPenguin]

52. WHERE THE FUCK IS THE OHIO DEMOCRATIC PARTY???

Are we totally frickin' helpless/defenseless?? If the shoe were on the other foot, the GOP would...

:shrug:
:puke:
:argh:
:mad:

[helderheid]

2. :(

thanks for the update - maybe Will Pitt's article will blow this open. Hang in there!

[flpoljunkie]

3. Totals don't match and the under and overvotes must be counted. No?

[texpatriot2004]

4. Have you told CASE OHIO or Conyers or anyone working on

this case? Please let them know so that, at the very least, they have a record of this abuse.

[CantGetFooledAgain]

5. Isn't that illegal?

What does the law state about recounts? Don't we have the legal right to inspect any and all of these public records? What are our lawyers doing in response to this obvious stonewalling?

[Kota]

6. Who told you

that your being disingenuous and wasting money?

[lizzieforkerry]

9. The republicans on the Board of Elections

Leslie Spaeth mostly. Someone was there form Blackwell's office and he went along with the Boards decision to not allow us to see the other stuff.

[roseBudd]

22. I still say Leslie Spaeth is an ass

Leslie wrote to someone with a blog:

http://chinaphotos.homeunix.com/wp/index.php?p=74&page=2

I have been on the Board fof Elections 17 years and never has any member of the media ask to be in the count room. Why would they want to be in the count room? After a group of 20 precincts are counted a total is taken via a disk to another room in our offices and transfered to our web site. The internet has the results before we do in the count room, we wait for a printed copy.

The Warren County Board of Elections did not secure the building, other county officials did what they thought was necessry to protect our workers, and I am grateful for that.

The young lady reporter was sitting in the lobby area when I left the building at approximately 1:40 A.M. Wednesday morning. I noted she had a print out of the results. If she had remained in her office, she would have had the results about 10 or 15 minutes earlier.
Now you have heard the facts of the story.

[lizzieforkerry]

24. Yeah, I owe you one big "I'm Sorry"

He is as big an ass as they come.

[troubleinwinter]

44. What utter crap...

My husband built the new elections office in our No. CA county. It was specifically DESIGNED under the guidance of the Elections officials to include a PUBLIC/PRESS AREA to witness the counting and tabulating.

Our officials INVITE the public and press to be present! It is fun... coffee and cookies, local TV reporters with thick make-up.

It also was the first in the nation to have a "drive-up window" to ask for whatever voting materials / forms you want, or to drop off an absentee. We call it "McVote", and it is well-liked by the community. It was the idea of our Deputy of Elections. Boy, we are lucky to have real Americans in our county running the elections!

[New Earth]

7. lizzie, is there anyone you can talk to about this???

something has to be done. they cannot keep those records from the public.

[intelle]

8. So sorry to hear this

but, I don't think they will get away with this forever. The Triad news will definitely help, I think.

:hug:

[pointsoflight]

10. Well, if they won't do it right, they'll have to do it again.

And we need to INSIST on it.

[texpatriot2004]

17. Would another recount even be possible? You know some

law says that there are only so many allowed.

[americanwhothinks]

11. it's a "recount," in this "democracy" run by an "elected president."

The quoatation marks are taking over!!! I yearn for a country in which I can speak without adding little disqualifying punctuation marks all over the place!!1

[Terre]

47. If you weren't so right

I'd be LOLing.

[Der Blaue Engel]

61. "LOL"

;)

[grumpy old fart]

12. Get names, date, time....

all of this is grist for further investigation, possible prosecutions....

[helderheid]

13. I agree

Don't let them get away with it - take this to Conyers!

[mom cat]

14. Please format this information in the form of a letter to the media so

that it can be combiner ioto a media blaster task, then post it also in the Voting Issues Forum and we will keep it kicked. Pkease tell us when you want the kicking stopped...Thanks! Hang in there!

[grumpy old fart]

15. take video cameras with you....

it's amazing what being under recorded observation will do.....

[texpatriot2004]

16. Do you have a mini tape recorder that you could use to capture

the audio? You know, if you don't have a video camera. Will they allow either of these? Or do you have a right to use them?

[righteous1]

18. That's illegal in Ohio n/t

[texpatriot2004]

20. Where's the supporting info to that statement? Can you post it ?

[righteous1]

26. I lived there 9 years ago

when the legislature passed the law against recoding peoples conversations without their knowledge. I'll see if i can't find the staute

[texpatriot2004]

29. Would appreciate the statute. Thanks. n/t

[proudtobeadem]

50. Actually, it's illegal anywhere to tape someone.....

But it is legal to tape a conversation of yourself with someone else.
This was on some papers that came with recording equiptment I bought a while ago. In essence you are taping your conversation.

On edit: Or where a least one party knows and is OK with it.

[grumpy old fart]

21. No it's not. This is a public office...... n/t

[grumpy old fart]

23. and forget the "mini tape recorders"....

what are we, in the 60's here?? Just take your damn video cams and get everything down for the record. If they have nothing to hide they should be happy to be recorded...

[kk897]

38. video cameras

I was at the green recount training and was supposed to be in my county today, but I'm really damn sick. Anyway, in the training, they specifically said that we could NOT use videocameras, but as far as they knew, none of the counties had specifically forbidden audio tape recorders.

[farmbo]

19. What a joke...no access to poll books??

Observers need to match each punchcard ballot, absentee ballot and provisional ballot with a signature in a poll book. That's how our system works.

Otherwise, it ain't a "recount".

[MrUnderhill]

46. That's not done anywhere

At least that I know of.

The NUMBER of signatures must match the number of votes cast, but you don't ever match signatures to individual votes. Much of election law is intended to separate those two items.

We don't ever want people being able to tell who a specific individual voted for.

[O.M.B.inOhio]

56. Gee, we had access to poll books for recount in another OH county

... I wonder why they don't permit access in select other counties.

[Razorback_Democrat]

25. Conyers committee should be notified

they may not be able to do anything about it now, but it may make a difference in the end

[EMunster]

27. Maybe contact this Cin. Enq reporter?

This out today...it goes through the usual thing of allowing "officials" to explain away and put on a happy face, but in parts, and more towards the end you can detect that Warren county also could be in a whole lot of trouble if someone would just press them a bit. I'll knock off an email to the reporter here about what I'm hearing; I'm sure it'd be helpful if others did too. Lizzy, too?


Warren Co. recount goes public

reporter:Erica Solvig [e-mail]

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041215/NEWS01/412150393/1056

[roseBudd]

28. DUers we need to investigate Warren Counties Emergency Services Director

Frank Young. It is he who initiated the lock down. It is he who "claims" he was contacted by the FBI. Frank Young is either lying or a patsy.

[grumpy old fart]

31. why can't a reporter just get in his face and ask him.....

to identify the phantom government official who told him to lock down? Is there not one decent reporter in that state? In this country?

[texpatriot2004]

33. Erica Solvig is great as she covered the Warren lockdown n/t

[EMunster]

35. yea, you can tell she has some integrity in there, though she has..

walk the same swamp of spin...

[Dolphyn]

30. Triad! You mean, the "cheat sheet" people?

I'm suspicious ... verrry suspicious.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

32. Any way to get the local news station down there?

[IndyOp]

34. How Triad is GETTING AWAY with FRAUD..

I connected two important ideas last night -- the fact that Triad is supressing all votes during the recount other than for President and the fact that swapping the labels on the Votomatics could swap votes for Kerry and Bush:

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x161665>

[Igel]

37. I may have pasted this in the other thread; maybe not.

They're bound by Ohio state law to surpress counts for races/measures other than the one for which the recount's been requested.

http://onlinedocs.andersonpublishing.com/oh/lpExt.dll?f=templates&fn=main-h.htm&cp=PORC

"At the time and place fixed for making a recount, the board of elections, in the presence of all witnesses who may be in attendance, shall open the sealed containers containing the ballots to be recounted, and shall recount them. If a county used punch card ballots and if a chad is attached to a punch card ballot by three or four corners, the voter shall be deemed by the board not to have recorded a candidate, question, or issue choice at the particular position on the ballot, and a vote shall not be counted at that particular position on the ballot in the recount. Ballots shall be handled only by the members of the board or by the director or other employees of the board. Witnesses shall be permitted to see the ballots but they shall not be permitted to touch them, and the board shall not permit the counting or tabulation of votes shown on the ballots for any nomination, or for election to any office or position, or upon any question or issue, other than the votes shown on such ballots for the nomination, election, question or issue concerning which a recount of ballots was applied for."

[roseBudd]

48. That actually makes it easier to commit tabulation fraud with punch cards

because if you cull Kerry ballots and replace them with Bush ballots after the tabulation fraud, you won't have to vote the rest of the races so as to tally with the rest of the vote.

[ladjf]

36. Similar stuff is happening in Greene County. The precinct office was

left opened and abandoned over the weekend. No word of this in any media. I heard about it on DU and personally talked with an eye witness.

[kk897]

39. "no word in the media"

I believe Keith Olbermann covered it on Monday or Tuesday; it's in his blog called "Xenia-phobia". Also was in Dayton Daily News on 13th (I think it's a registration site). Here's a four paragraph excerpt:

LoParo said the records are to be treated with the "utmost care" until the recount is over.

The two election observers say they later found the Greene County Board of Elections office unlocked Saturday morning, fueling their suspicions they weren't allowed to examine records that might have been tampered with.

"It is shocking that they would first deny us access, and then leave the records unlocked overnight," said Joan Quinn, a retired lawyer from Sacramento, Calif., an election observer acting on behalf of the Green Party, which asked for a recount of the Ohio presidential vote.

Election board officials returned Saturday afternoon to lock up the building after they were told of the security lapse.

[electropop]

40. That's just plain illegal

It's been posted repeatedly that hiding this stuff is considered prima faciae evidence of fraud. It's a GOOD thing, because you need nothing more than this to toss Blackheart in jail. Well, that and a fair judiciary.

[Helga Scow Stern]

41. ......

[texpatriot2004]

42. So, LizzieforKerry what did you do? Who did you tell?

[mod mom]

43. Document who is saying you are wasting taxpayers $

Ask for their names and turn the *********'s in.

[shaggy briard]

49. Poll Books are the answer

That is where the fraud took place -- need to see if the absentee ballots were actually requested, actually signed for, and actually filed by real voters.

[Carolab]

51. So there was a discrepancy

I was told by an Ohio volunteer coordinator that if there was just a one-vote difference there would be a full county recount. So I don't get it.

Plus, there is this, posted in another thread: Be sure to ask to see the output of the vote tabulator. If the tabulator only gives the counts for the presidential race, it is proof that Triad reps have tampered with the machines to set them up to suppress the counts of the other races.

A lawsuit has been filed on this issue. Pending the outcome of that lawsuit, those counties where Triad reps have tampered with the machines may be investigated and there may need to be another recount. It is therefore important to know where this tampering has occurred.

[Verve]

57. Yeah! A lawsuit! Did I miss this in another link? n/t

[althecat]

62. Recount the ballots by hand - they did it in Florida in 2000 why not now?

[McCamy Taylor]

53. ask to fingerprint the ballots (someone else's idea)...

...on election night during the lockdown they may have been switching out prepunched ballots. Or, asked for a machine recount of another candidate's numbers, see if they match. Again, not my idea, is from another thread, someone saw prepunched ballots at a polling place.

[lizzieforkerry]

54. They are not letting us see the poll books, I can guarentee they will

not let us fingerprint the ballots.

[McCamy Taylor]

55. is ok, an investigation of Triad is in the works, they are going down...

[texpatriot2004]

58. kick

[lizzieforkerry]

59. Sorry for my long lapse in response

The Kerry lawyer is fighting this today so I was waiting to hear what he had to say before I posted anymore, but I haven't heard (he is really swamped with trying to do this and his real job which he had put off during the campaign). So he knows, Cobb's atty knows, Greg Palast knows, we are writing a letter to Conyers and I will get a hold of Arnebeck once I hear from our lawyer, and then we will send out to KO and other MSM. We are having a meeting about all of this tonight so I will know more after 9. Thanks for all of your support and suggestions.

[EFerrari]

60. Big hugs to you, Lizzie & thank you for not flipping like a

doo-whap girl. I would have. Hang in there, and thanks for all your work.

[New Earth]

63. awesome, thank you for updating us

sorry i didn't believe you last time :(

[lizzieforkerry]

64. You know I love ya Faye!

Don't feel bad, I accidently flipped out on IndyOp...my nerves are shot!

[EFerrari]

65. Echinacea and some considered cussing might help. n/t