Please read: "Folk Don't Get It"

[understandinglife]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/12/15/9734/4841

Peace.

"When Did Bush Know?"

[Kota]

1. Thanks. He makes alot of good points.

Someone should e-mail to Kerry, Gore and the DNC.

[jamboi]

37. She makes some good points, but I think its too early to condemn JK.

Black voter suppression is a huge problem and I'm glad we are finally approaching the subject and may even do something about it. Its not right as the author points out that we're only getting to it in such a round about way, but hey I'll take it. Let's see where it goes. I'm hoping that the African-American community will stand up for itself and make some hay while this sun is shining.

[Eloriel]

72. Think about what you just said --

perfectly mirrors one of the author's key points: NO ONE is standing up for their rights -- not the Dem Party leaders, and obviously not the rank and file either.

Why should they have to do it themselves? They're our most loyal, and largest base. It's their RIGHTS that are being infringed upon. Why should we make them fix it themselves? Why aren't we there for them?

[Kota]

2. Thanks. He makes alot of good points.

Someone should e-mail to Kerry, Gore and the DNC.

[neversaynever]

6. He? Who's He? The author specifically identifies "himself" as

an African American FEMALE. And with that, there's another can of worms the liberal cause still refuses to take seriously.

I agree that it's about time someone lays the cards out on the table just as they are, but I don't think that the rampant undercurrent of racism and sexism will EVER change in this country: it is, after all, what the country is FOUNDED upon, it is what built the country and brought it to "greatness." The biggest difference between the US and Nazi Germany is this: this Fourth Reich was FOUNDED on genocide, race hatred and slavery; the Third Reich found its demise in genocide, race hatred and slavery.

Until "y'all" start taking women and people of color SERIOUSLY ain't nuthin, no never, ever, nuthin gonna change. What we are witnessing today is not "end-stage capitalism"--it's "end-stage racism".

Does anyone get the fact that this author is also talking to and about US here on DU?

( I think that's a good thing, though pointing it out is likely to get me thrown out as a troll....).

[unpossibles]

9. good point

it pisses me off too that no one seems to be taking this very seriously. hell, this is potentially the most serious part of the stolen election: that people were not allowed or discouraged from having a voice.

I only hope something actually happens from this, that we wake up and realize that this melting pot country of ours needs the combined collective voice of all of its citizens, that as long as we disenfranchise anyone, we are only hurting ourselves.

[neversaynever]

13. Yes, ... here, for example, a Native American Perspective on the

Whole Kit and Kaboodle.... I like the part where the issue of "collective suicide" is raised


What it seems to boil down to in the “battle of the most martyred minority” is that when the matter of genocide, however great or small, involves “civilized”—that is, white—people, the matter elicits moral outrage; when it involves non-western, non-industrialized, non-white populations it elicits indifference—or worse, indignation. And I am not the first to have made this observation. David Stannard says the same in his discussion of the politics of genocide scholarship, and many others have made the same point. Peter Novick cites Jason Epstein and Phillip Lopate as having made the same argument in an attempt to explain why “piles of other victims are not as significant as Jewish corpses.” Lopate asks, “Is it simply because they are Third World people—black, brown, yellow-skinned? ... “gentle, scholarly, middle-class, civilized people?”.
What I find most alarming about this situation is the way it reveals the degree to which we as human beings still cannot come to view ourselves as members of one species—of one HUMAN race. <. . .> It is in this sense that I have described any act of genocide as an act of collective SUICIDE. Once we come to understand that we are ALL RELATED, that is, that we are all members of one collective human race, we must recognize that, in seeking to exterminate any other members of that race, we are killing OURSELVES. The basic prerequisite to coming to such an understanding is of course recognizing the essential humanity of ALL human life forms.

http://www.america-patriots.com/Friedberg-1.html

[unpossibles]

16. wow

"it reveals the degree to which we as human beings still cannot come to view ourselves as members of one species—of one HUMAN race. "

I could not agree more. It actually is so obvious (the "different races" can all interbreed, so we are the same 'race') that it bothers me that in this "enlightened age" so few seem to get it.

As evidenced in our current views on the death toll in Iraq (not counting the Iraqi corpses) as well as our history books' view of manifest destiny and our literal slaughter of anyone who got in the way.

I also cannot grasp why anyone who has ever suffered any form of bigotry or prejudice can dish it out to any other group. Where is the empathy? Why is it so difficult to grasp? As someone of a very mixed heritage, it seems pretty obvious to me. hell, the relatives of half of my ancestors probably killed the other half's relatives in the name of god and/or territory and/or "cause they are different"....

I often half joke that I hope we meet an alien race someday just so we can finally all be an "us" instead of an us and a them. The sad part of that scenario though is obviously we will just destroy any alien life form we would meet.

[neversaynever]

17. think about the difference between "suicide" and "murder"

in terms of Christian conceptions of "mortal sin" -- SUICIDE is the only mortal sin that is UNFORGIVABLE by Christian doctrine (or am I wrong about that?)

At any rate, my theory is that the refusal to acknowledge ONE human race and the way killing any members of that race also implies killing of self is that murder is more acceptable in terms of christian ethics than is suicide.

But, what do i know, I'm just a tin-foil hat nutcase:crazy:

[Darknyte7]

3. Worth reading....

I've been one in recent weeks to encourage folks here to remain patient, but as a Black man, this diary really did make me think.

If one Senator doesn't stand the f*ck up on January 6th, the Democrats may well lose me too.

[il_lilac]

12. I'm with you

How much more evidence do they need?! Disenfranchisement is a FACT- it has been told over and over by brave people who experienced it firsthand. This has to be addressed even if the election is not overturned. We must quit asking our brothers and sisters to brave injustices if we're not willing to march in the streets with them when they are attacked. Where is the outrage? Dems must support all those who were wronged.

[kslib]

4. A good read.

Now, what can we do about it?

[rockedthevoteinMA]

5. Man that was really powerful

and full of hurt. I am speechless. ;(

[trudyco]

7. Bull - sorry but the reason the disenfranchisement doesn't get

enough press is threefold. One is that it is hard to prove how many voters were suppressed (have to rely on statistics again) and the second is that all the stats I've heard doesn't tip the scales enough. The third is that it may not be illegal like some other fraudulent activities might be (e.g. jail time for Bozos).

As for Kerry hiding out - can't tell yet. If he is, then the democratic party will be hurting in the next election. We hope he is playing a poker game and we aren't allowed to see his hand. There certainly are enough wierd things going on to support that:
- Michael Moore acting one way on TV and another away from TV
- Jessie Jackson initially saying one thing on TV which contradicted what he said in an editorial days earlier, then switching and now on TV supporting what he said in his editorial
- Al Franken, AAR, Olberman - I swear the latter 2 are not covering this as much as they were just after the election
- John Kerry sending out a message to his supporters via the internet and not TV
- ACT and Moveon acting like they don't get it when they have voter lists they could be canvassing to see if there was fraud and then letting people know

trudyco

[Darknyte7]

10. I hope you're right...

Again, I am a newbie, but since I've been here, I've continued to preach patience. I still believe that a lot more has been, and continues to go on behind the scenes, and I understand of course why. There was no reason to provoke the Republican noise machine to get cranked up prematurely. But again, if one Senator doesn't stand the f*ck up on January 6th, the Democrats may lose me...

[Chili]

18. what is good enough evidence for you?

How many polling places do you need to prove it? In how many cities? How many people have to tell their stories before anybody pays any attention?

http://shadowbox.i8.com/Suppression/ohio/ohiomachines.htm

I've been emailing those stats and graphs and REAL COMPLAINTS BY REAL PEOPLE out for weeks. Nobody is covering THIS except for the HJC - they ARE talking about it. Not in Cuyahoga County, though, and it's starting to piss me off. Since there's no moron like Damschroeder to surface in Cuyahoga County, at the moment it can't be proven that the machines were deliberately held back, neglected, or sabotaged. But it still means something, but apparently not enough for anybody to talk about it.

And Al Franken can kiss my ass. He has totally ignored voter suppression, completely. Terrified to jump on the election fraud story? Fine. But systematic voter suppression in Ohio is NOT a myth and needs no STATISTICS. In 3 years, if he's still oy-oy-oying on AAR, and he has the audacity to ask people to "get out there and work!" I don't know how civil I'll be able to keep my emails to him.

I completely empathize with her frustrations. And I am wondering why NO ONE in the Democratic party will stand up and scream it to the rooftops beyond the tiny few who are testifying at the Ohio hearings. If they want African-Americans to come out and vote in large numbers AGAIN to keep Democrats in power, they damn well better start opening their mouths NOW. NOW. My guess is that they are so afraid of losing some of the more bigoted voters in the center that they'll sacrifice the most loyal members of the party. They do so at their own peril.

[Darknyte7]

19. Sh*t on your most loyal constituency at your own risk...

Counter-majoritarian difficulty be damned.

[4democracy]

28. The DNC and MoveOn are asking "what do we do now" but they

won't listen when we try to tell them. What this country needs is a party that is Of the people, By the people and For the people it supposedly represents. We need them to stop playing politics and just STAND up for what is right, this lady is absolutely right when she says the only time they even pretend to listen to the people is when an election is imminent. I have been a Democrat my whole life but right now I am wondering why.

[jamboi]

38. Unfortunately I'm starting to feel the same about MoveOn and DNC. n/t

[kk897]

24. I had a real problem with the way MoveOn conducted the GOTV effort

Before I continue, let me just say that I couldn't agree more with the daily kos diary and that it completely doesn't matter what I think about it.

But, for what it's worth, this is what MoveOn wanted us to do. My husband and I refused to do it.

I live in an upper middle class mainly white neighborhood that is bordered on all sides by poverty. They wanted us to go to this one particular neighborhood that is primarily poor Black people and ask them to go to the polls. No, demand them to go to the polls, and ask them to sign a piece of paper saying that they pledged to vote.

More: Two middle aged white people were supposed to go into this neighborhood, armed with a clipboard filled with what looked to anybody like complete personal data. It was information obtained I think from previous registrations... we were told beforehand that we would be speaking to people that MoveOnPAC had already called to determine that they were likely to vote. As it turned out, they hadn't done that... we had to find out if the person on our list actually lived there, if they were registered, etc. MoveOn didn't know doodley about these people.

So we were supposed to go into this neighborhood with our official-looking paperwork (given to us by someone who was from Cali, I think he said), knock on doors, ask to see the person on our clipboard, then ascertain whether that person was registered still, likely to vote, and likely to vote Kerry. If so, then we were supposed to get that person to sign a pledge that they would vote (pledge didn't have any party affiliation on it), then they were to check in at the MoveOn booth at the polling place when they did. If they didn't vote at the time they were supposed to, we were supposed to CALL them and ask them to go vote.

I considered this a major invasion of privacy, but I'm a white person. I can only imagine what a poor Black person might have thought:

A) Why is it you only come to this neighborhood when you want something from us? where were you when (some awful thing happened or some important bill didn't get passed)?

B) Who the hell are you to come to my home and tell me that I have to check in with you when I vote?

C) What, are these people undercover narcs or something? who do they think we are?

D) Sure, I'll go vote... if I can do it and not have to wait a long time, because if I miss any work at all I will be fired, and no, I don't have time to tell you that I voted after I did.

E) Where did you get all that information? what are you doing with my phone number? I don't know you... why would I say it's okay to call me to see if I've voted, like I was some little kid or something.

I could go on and on. I wrote to MoveOn about this really culturally insensitive activity we were supposed to undertake, but did not receive a reply. Hm. Wonder why?

[Psyop Samurai]

26. Thanks for the eye-opener, kk

:-(

[Chili]

27. thank you kk897...

That was a very thoughtful post. And you're right, that is the very reason why I chose to work the phones instead, because it always gave the person the choice of hanging up anonymously. But I also thought the cause was worth it, and believed that the people actually doing the knocking on the doors had the right intentions, even of the instructions were intrusive. I still believe they had the right intentions. I never for a moment doubted the sincerity of people like you.

I know it had to be done, but the way to do it without seeming ... I don't know, what's the word? Exploitative, opportunistic? I don't have the answer. I fully and completely supported Kerry and the Democratic cause - and, yeah, I'm REALLY pissed off, but I still do because of the alternative - but I do agree that if the party stayed in close contact with the black community nationwide, ALL THE TIME, then that feeling you describe would be diminished.

That's something the party MUST do to keep African-Americans loyal, or they've lost us.

[kk897]

35. I know people were sincere in their efforts to GOTV

and I have no doubt they were very nice people. They were. But, like any privledged group, they were not truly thinking of the effect that they might have on the less privledged people they approached.

I think it should have been the other way around. MoveOnPAC (or the Dems, or anyone) should have asked Black community leaders and activists what they needed from MoveOn to help with the GOTV efforts, then MoveOn should've done that. I'm sure most communities had their own efforts in place that they should have respected and augmented, rather than (once again) overrunning them.

Maybe that's how MoveOn started out, and maybe my experience was just in our little arm of the MoveOn organization.

But any political group MUST listen to the needs of their constituents before it tries to accomplish anything. You can't just assume one thing or another is going to work. And you can't assume that you know what is best for any particular community if you're not at least connected in some way to that community.

[praisethelowered]

49. I think your "white guilt" is misplaced

I went to poor and/or ethnic neighborhoods to GOTV, and I didn't feel "bad" about it. . . maybe because it wasn't the first time i made an effort to help the poor and/or ethnic.

I didn't care if MoveOn didn't make the first contact. . . i can introduce myself and talk to people about the issues whether they are black, brown or white. . . the list just gives you a name to ask for at the door.

[kk897]

64. I didn't feel guilty about it...

The only emotion I felt really was anger at MoveOnPAC.

To me, the approach seemed quite insensitive. I believe it used to be called carpetbagging.

[saracat]

76. You are describing canvassing.

That was exactly what both the repug and Democratic parties did in any area. Just to set the record straight.Move On was canvassing. And most neighborhoods, irrespective of ethnicity aren't canvassed but in an election year.

[kk897]

78. whatever you call it...

Then I guess I have a problem with canvassing, no matter who does it. "Everybody does it" isn't a good reason to do it, if you ask me (which you didn't so feel free to laugh at me now).

I still think they (whoever canvasses, but in this case MoveOn) didn't really consider how it would look. A woman who did go ahead and do it in this particular area said that she met with a lot of resistance and that people acted really weird about it. She couldn't really understand why someone might not take too kindly to it. I'm just saying that I do understand. If they had been able to get someone from that neighborhood, someone that the people knew and trusted, that would be one thing, and I'd have less of a problem with it.

[saracat]

79. I agree with your point. I was just taking issue with what areas

were targeted. All areas that were low efficacey were "targeted" . The fact that the neighborhood was black would not have been relevent. It might have been more effective to have someone black and from the neighborhood that people trusted but it was extremely difficultto get anyone at all to canvass. So ,pickins were slim and we were lucky to get whomever we could. Your point is well taken though and a greater effort should be made to put the most effective canvassers in an area.

[kk897]

81. I see what you're saying.

Here's another little tidbit: MoveOnPAC canvassed our neighborhood, even came to us, even though we were volunteers and there were a bunch of volunteers even on our block. So I wouldn't say that there was much efficient targeting going on...

Wouldn't it be nice if everyone, and I mean everyone, just said, you know, voting is damn important and I'm going to do it. That way no one would have to twist anyone's arm.

[saracat]

82. Well the Dem targeting wasn't great either.

They kepy calling volunteers asking them who they were voting for and if they were going to vote as many as three times. People were getting POed. Yeah, I wish people didn't have to be dragged to vote! I don't understand why they don't know it's importance , especially now.

[Joe Chi Minh]

29. Why isn't voter suppression

a criminal offence, incorporating, as it does, two vile crimes at one and the same time?

[noiretextatique]

50. SOS, different election

voter disenfranchisement cost gore florida in 2000, and kerry ohio (and probably florida too) in 2004. the republicans know the democratic leadership better than democrats seem to.
the reason disenfranshisement IS NOT AN ISSUE: democrats believe republicans will hand them their asses by exploiting the race/poverty issue. it's the thing everyone knows and no one really wants to talk about, as the author of the article mentions.
let's face it" it's a "tradition" that democrats are too cowardly to challenge directly (i mean the last two presidential candidates) because they fear the inevitable backlash.

[Darknyte7]

52. BINGO! n/t

:argh:

[noiretextatique]

54. plain as the nose on your face

gore thought he'd be the candidate in 2004...and look what happened to him. the neocondixiecrats scuttled his campaign before it started. kerry should have paid attention to that...no way in he'll be the candidate in 2008.

[lateo]

8. Bingo bango...

The author nails it! Kerry and the Democratic party are NOT DOING ANYTHING and by the time the believers wake up to that fact it will be too late.

[FreeCajun]

11. If you wait for someone else to fight for your rights...

...you've already lost.

This article was a very big wake-up call for me.

The best prayer for relief is spoken in the language of the angels: action, which speaks louder than words.

They might well have lost me, too.

[sportndandy]

14. A good read for the DLC

There is a gap between the DLC and the grassroots and it is made pointedly obvious here. The Dems have abandoned their constituents in favor of a middle strategy that can't work even if it is successful. Why should I vote republican light when I can have the real thing, and why should I vote democrat if they aren't representing me?

[mattclearing]

15. They should have changed "Democrats" to Democratic politicians

Accusing all of us of being no better than the Republicans for the white stuffed suits' silence is wrong. Equating Democratic voters to their Republican counterparts morally is silly.

Just because our rich white guys don't fight for us the way they should does not mean that we condone them...I will fight to replace them with people who will if possible.

That is what that purging talk was about over the weekend. If they can't stand up for us in our darkest hour, let's find someone who can.

[Darknyte7]

20. kick

:kick:

[Greybnk48]

21. I'm not black

but I'm able to spot racism and bigotry (at least when it's this obvious) when I see it. if this is allowed to stand, just like last time, I'm not just going to leave the Dem party, i'm also going to "maintain my dignity" and not vote at all. i will not legitimize the "elections" in the future, knowing them for what they are.

[Old Mouse]

22. hate crimes are rising

specifically against blacks.

If the Democratic party really cared about race issues they would have stopped the ridiculous notion of voter challenges and felon rolls before the election, not after.

Want a preview of what's next? Google Wilmington riot 1898

[Darknyte7]

25. You know what?

I think you may be right with regard to your analogy to the Wilmington riot of 1898.

"Fool (us) once, shame on you. Fool (us) twice, er, can't be fooled again." *grin*

[Old Mouse]

30. LOL n/t

[Psyop Samurai]

23. Thank you, understandinglife & shanikka...

Systematic disenfranchisement IS electoral fraud! While it's important to discover how they tampered with ballots and machines, we've been on an egg hunt while they run out the clock. Meanwhile, an obvious crime that should unite all persons of conscience gets overlooked.

The suppression of black voters, and the dynamics behind it, should be obvious to people who've never even heard of "black box voting". Moreover, our heros in this fight have included prominent African Americans, one of whom has clearly invoked the legacy of civil rights. I, for one, won't be conned into regarding that legacy as a quaint relic.

While I differ slightly with the author's perspective, (it leans too far in the "where's mine?" direction), who can blame her? As I feel her struggle is OUR struggle, I will take the liberty to reframe it: we've ALL "been had"; we've ALL "been took".

I am a white American, and I declare that the history of civil rights is MY history; it is AMERICAN history. And I will NOT be conned into sweeping it under the rug. Let us join hands.

[prairierose]

33. Thanks Psyops Samuri for saying what I was about to.....

it is the history of all of us. Even though I am white, I live in a very racist place. I have watched with horror all of my life the insidious nature of hatred and its effects. As my Lakota friends say "Mitakuye Oyasin" We are all related. Anything that hurts people of any color hurts all people. I am so tired of seeing this. I am so tired of anyone who denigrates the rights of anyone. I am a woman who has been discriminated against. I grew up in a time when that was ok & I see it coming back again. So I do know what discrimination feels like. It is time for all of us to stand up against the politics of hate. It is not enough to promise to fix it for next time; we MUST fix it now.

We must all work together NOW.

[passy]

31. Time for a Black Socialist Party ?

Is not the values it's the issues stupid !
such as disenfranchisement, economic racism etc...

[Darknyte7]

32. I'm not trying to go there... At least not yet, but...

...if on January 6th, 2005, at least one Democratic Senator doesn't get off of his/her ass and stand the f*ck up, on January 7th, 2005 I'll be looking for options.

[passy]

34. Not too sound too defeatist , but what options?

[Darknyte7]

36. I'm hoping that I never have to cross that bridge...

and quite frankly, there really aren't any good options right now. That said, I will not sit by and let MY party continue to take for granted the vote of MY people. There is simply no more loyal constituency to the Democratic party.

[passy]

41. Are you kidding me!

Why the refusal for militancy, have you not witnessed the living conditions of Blacks in America. In parts of the supposedly richest country in the world, Blacks are poorer, in worst health and more illiterate than some of their African brothers. They are also less represented politically, economically and socially, than minorities of equal size in other countries in the world. One third of Americans are not white. Do you think that third is fairly represented in the government, the media or the business world.
Does that lack of representation lead to Blacks and other minorities getting a raw deal?

[Darknyte7]

43. True... true...

But what I also understand is the fact that national and particularly Presidential politics are about coalition building and maintenance. The Democrats can't win without Black people, but by the same token, Black people can't win without Democrats either. This is a situation in which the CBC (Congressional Black Caucus) has to spend what political capital they have to hold the party leaders feet to the fire.

Members (yes, plural) of the CBC will stand before the joint session to protest, just as they did four years ago. If no one from the Senate stands with them this time, it will be extremely bad for the party. EXTREMELY BAD.

[Old Mouse]

39. Difficult

The black society is very fractured, and all of our leaders become targets for character assassination.

[passy]

42. Character assassination by whom?

And do Blacks believe it. Wouldn't it make people outraged that their candidate was treated badly. Just like democrats being outraged by the statements of those lying veterans.

[Old Mouse]

44. I didn't say impossible

every nationally known black politician has been the target of a disproportionate amount of criticism.

I know liberals who hate Jesse, Sharpton and Farrakhan without the slightest idea why they do!

If blacks in this country want to succeed in getting someone in any political office of importance, we're going to have to unite an awful lot of sub-cultures that have conflicting motivations. The gangs are a powerful block whose intelligence is underestimated, we would have to unite them with the Baptists, Muslims, and upscale urban professionals.

If you really wanted to craft something, you would target all people of color.

[Old Mouse]

55. oh yeah,

and we would also have to have elections.

[DaDeacon]

83. Yo Man For real!!!!

I mean you may be more than right!

[merh]

40. The author misses a very basic point, it is not only about the

African American vote, it is about all votes, every citizen's vote. This is not a race issue, it is a issue about democracy and protecting all votes. African American leaders have failed to do anything to address the disenfranchisment that occurs in every election, in every state in the nation over the last 40 years. They became complacent after the Civil Rights Acts and the Voting Rights Acts were passed assuming that those laws took care of the matter. African Americans have been turned away from voting for their candidates due to financial and emotional intimidation for years. Not until every citizen stands up for themselves and stops accepting the status quo, will things change.

[Generator]

45. Fine I get what you're saying but

Are you Black? I wouldn't presume to lecture her or Black leaders SINCE I as a white woman have no idea how it feels to be intimated out of voting. I can't even imagine. I know the same old people keep talking about it-Jesse Jackson et all. When was the last time you heard a white leader mention it either?

And I just realized this year (I'm in my forties) that this country isn't even a Democracy. It's a sham of a Democracy. I'm beyond rage, I feel a horrible dread and despair- it's like this country has the same old cancer on it and nothing has really changed since 1964. And that was certainly her point-they have just gotten more sophisticated about it.

[merh]

47. Guess what, I have been fighting this for years in the South,

my race is not relevant to the fight or my stance. Education of the people is one of the answers, yet, how do you convenience a man that his boss will not know who he votes for and he will not be fired if he doesn't vote for his boss's man? Tell them it is against the law and they can sue? That doesn't work, they get fired any way and have a family to take care of. How about the man/woman that won't get those cash Christmas bonuses and turkeys they rely on?

Don't question my race or my stand, know that it is not something new to this election and that many, many people have been fighting it for years. The leaders can stand up and profess against it, yet that does not bring answers and does not result in new strides to correct a problem that has been existing, despite the Civil Rights/Voting Rights Acts. Those laws just made people think that the problem was corrected, when it was not.

What is sad is that it has taken this long for so many to finally wake up to the reality that is our system. And why might it be that so many are waking up, it is because they are becoming a part of the victims of our society, the disenfranchised, their votes and wills are being ignored.

[noiretextatique]

51. way to pass the buck

it was the NAACP, not the democratic party, that ended up suing the state of florida in 2000...it will be left to the NAACP who ends up suing in florida. which begs the question: why should i keep voting for a party that doesn't protect my vote and feels it's "up to me" (unlike white people) to do that for myself? are african-americans really CITIZENS of this country or not?

[merh]

56. The NAACP misses what I disccussed in my posts

THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR YEARS. Actions every election cycle is not enough. As I said, reaching out to people constanting, tyring to educate them about their rights and helping them file actions when their rights are violated is more important than politically appropriate or motivated actions.

Yes, applaud them for acting in 2000, but they let it drop after that didn't they? What have they done since then. I am weary of saying who did what and how in 2000 because apparently it wasn't enough since we are stuck in 2004, in a worst position than we were in 2000.

[noiretextatique]

57. the settled the case: and pray tell: why SHOULDN'T this issue

be of importance to the party that continues to be hurt by it? yes, IT HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR YEARS. and it will continue to go on as long as it's viewed as the personal problem of african-americans vs. a national voting rights issue.

[Darknyte7]

58. Schemes to suppress Black votes have been around since 1865...

Grandfather Clauses, Jim Crow laws, literacy test, poll taxes, intimidation, etc...

Black folk have been loyal democratic voters since Martin L. King Sr. said that Jack Kennedy had "wiped the tears from (his) daughter's eyes" by virtue of Kennedy's intervention to have MLK Jr released from an Atlanta jail after having participated in a sit-in. The rest, as they say, is history as the Presidential election of 1960 is identified as the first election in which the Black vote was decisive in "swinging" a Presidential election.

But we've been slowly walking back from our vigilant defense of those rights for the better part of the last 20 years.

[noiretextatique]

61. "we"...meaning the democratic party?

or america, in general? i agree on both counts. i also agree that "we" african-americans need to be more vigilant, but...here's the funny thing about that. as long as we take on issues that our not *really* our problem, then we continue to create the expectation that we, and we alone, SHOULD handle all of "our" problems...which of course aren't really *our* problems, created in some vaccum. they are societal problems, some created by design (i'm thinking of the CIA and crack)...it seems an age-old and continuing problem. you can hear that belief (we are soley responsible) echoed several times in this thread, and imho it's both REAL and FALSE, at the same time.
the falseness of it is about denial of centuries of white supremacy, as law, custom, etc...and the realness is about that as well :7
bill cosby claims he's been to speaking to the realness of late, and the author of this article in definitely speaking mainly to the falseness, with a bit of the realness thrown in.
more realness: no way in hell did any movement in this country advance without the help..."we" certainly seem to have lost some support.

[Darknyte7]

66. "We" as in...

this country, this party and bitterly, yes "we" as African Americans. "We" all must be more vigilant. I think too that my generation (I'm thirty-one) has benefited so much from the civil rights movement, that we have come to take much for granted.

I also don't know that "we've" lost some support as much as "we've" failed to make certain demands of our leadership based upon our historic and real loyalty.

[noiretextatique]

69. i agree with that

my late uncle, a life-long republican (he died before bush43), believed "we" made a strategic error during the civil rights movement, or rather we didn't go far enough. and while that movement did expand the middle class (and above), we see that it did little for those entrenched in poverty. i'm about 15 years older than you...too young for the civil rights movement, but i did benefit from affirmative action...as did many who were prepared to do so. and i also agree with you that many of us have most our connection to the struggle...the struggle that in many ways provided some structure and common ground. not so these days...during the LA riots, for example, some black people were attacked for driving expensive cars. as a part of the original "me" generation, and also a part of the generation of black folks who dropped the ball in many ways...i hear what you're saying.

[merh]

59. No one said the issue shouldn't be important or isn't important

THAT IT HAS TAKEN THIS LONG FOR SO MANY TO FINALLY FIGURE THIS OUT, is what my posts are about and -- This is nothing new and it is about time folks starting addressing it, not as a racial issue, but as an issue regarding our nation's democracy and the threats to it. I am saying it goes beyond race and is a national issue, an issue that has existed and must be addressed. I am sad that it has taken so many to realize that this has been an ongoing problem and that the longer we take to address it, the deeper the wounds to our nation.

God, how one person can totally misread posts is beyond me.

Pretend this is new and it will be like starting from scratch, accept this is been a problem for many, nameless, voiceless voters and it will be the much needed acceptance that the system is broken and needs immediate repair.

[noiretextatique]

60. i see what you are saying...and of course i know the history

i don't think i was arguing that it is anything new, and no one who did would be taken seriously.

i do think there is a new BRAZENESS that does require some comment from someone other than an NAACP spokesperson, jesse jackson, or the CBC.

it is indeed a racial issue AND it also goes beyond race...both/and is the way i see it. i don't think it does any good to pretend otherwise.

[merh]

63. It is a racial issue, but has gone far beyond race and is like

just about every rights issue in our nation - it is a "money" issue, he who has money rules and the poor are forsaken and overlooked and disenfranchised. Doesn't matter what race, if you have no money, you don't matter.

[noiretextatique]

67. but it's not JUST a money issue...here's why

not all poor people are voting for democrats...this is why likely democratic voters are targetted, and which group in america is most likely to vote democratic in overwhelming numbers? the republicans have used resentment about affirmative action to attract some likely democratic voters to their side, as they have done with other wedge/morality crap. it's like the stockhom syndrome...if you are brainwashed enough, you identify with the oppressor. that why race remains an effective tool for the conquerors.

[merh]

68. True, very good point.

But, race is not the only issue in this election. The padding and the theft and fraud that went on in this race was not just to the African Americans, but to dems across the board - race, creed, color, wealth, gender, none of it came into play any more than the other. The common denominator was the vote for the democratic party. That it happened and dems that have not experienced it before have finally gotten a taste of reality may be the blessing in all of this. Maybe now folks won't sit back and say "but there are laws against that" maybe now, they will fight to see that the laws are followed and help people in need of the support when they try to gain their access to the laws and their rights.

[noiretextatique]

70. good points too...

i don't deny that neocons have simply declared all out war on all of us, and hopefully, that realization will sink in and wake some folks up.

[Darknyte7]

65. Agreed...

I had a spirited (to say the least) conversation with another attorney (a real nut) here in the office about two months before the election. In that conversation, this clown continued to pertinaciously deny that there had been any suppression of the Black vote in Florida in 2000, even after having been present with a highlighted copy of the U.S. Civil Rights Commission's report to that effect.

And they were even MORE BRAZEN with it this time around!!

[Generator]

46. I wish you would have posted an excerpt

because it might get others to read it. (I almost didn't)

So:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/12/15/9734/4841

The Democratic party will be a very interesting place once once formerly loyal Black Democrats like myself abandon it. But IMO that abandonment is in OUR best interests. Since we are going to lose anyway, and since it is clear that the DLC is willing to sell anyone down the river to win, I hope that more and more of us will be willing to say "we lost but we lost with integrity" and vote our conscience instead of 90% of us following a party loyalty left to us by our parents from a time when Democrats actually pretended to give a shit about our voting rights.


Going to lose anyway, yeah fucking duh!! If the votes aren't counted, what's the point in getting anyone to vote? The Democratic party will be dead. Doesn't anybody higher up get this?

[RaulVB]

48. Please, read this!

And remember it in the future!

[Slit Skirt]

53. thanks for posting this

I am angry, DUers are angry and we are caught up in it. But why?
because we feel cheated, robbed...the opposing party played unfairly....well, we're paying attention to it this year because it affected us....it has been happening to blacks for decades....

I agree with Shanikka, the democrats only wanted our money, our votes.They are not representing us..the people...and they certainly do not represent blacks.

it has been a cold day in hell since anyone really held any candidates feet to the fire...or even the already elected officials.

they represent corporations...bottom line...and just want to make you feel good during the campaign....it is really all a facade.

I have gotten beaten up here before saying Kerry has turned out to be a huge disappointment...but he has! He conceded while people were still in line to vote...and he has been very late coming to the table...he is quite frankly MIA

LOOK WHO IS FIGHTING ......John Conyers, Jesse Jackson, David Cobb....these are our true patriots, fighting the principle.....well guess what...it WAS KERRY'S RUN FOR THE WHITEHOUSE..you don't see him reporting for duty....... Kerry is too worried about 2008.

I grew up in the 60's and I still believe in the value of freedom and civil rights for every single American...not just when it is convenient or I believe in it as long as it doesn't screw up my plans....injustice to any of us is a crime...and either you are for it all the way...or against it.....no grey lines.

[crispini]

62. Yes, the Congressional Black Caucus,

the Greens and the Libs have been in the forefront of this battle. The more "mainstream" Dems and especially Kerry have been pretty silent. I, too, am beginning to feel sold out. I'm not black but if there is a new party started I will certainly consider joining and/or giving them my vote. I am disgusted with "mainstream" Dems over this whole issue.

[understandinglife]

73. Thank you for your thoughtful comments (n/t)

[Hamoth]

71. kickers

[Helga Scow Stern]

74. The image that sticks the most in my mind about the failure

of this election is those long, long lines of people waiting in the rain to vote. It not only really, really pisses me off, it makes me want to cry.

And that fucking Rove is there switching the votes while they are still waiting to vote.

And that these so-called leaders of our party aren't screaming their heads off about it now.

Those things are the most unacceptable to me of all.

[Senator]

75. So let's respond to her...

...by telling our "leaders" the truth.

It's the racist poll-tax-lines stupid!

Stand Up for Us Right Now


--
www.thedeanpeople.org

[Darknyte7]

77. Kick!

:kick:

[understandinglife]

80. Email to TrueMajority, MoveOn, NVRI, AfD,...

...Brad Friedman, Mr Arnebeck (directly), Congressman Conyers, thedeanpeople, and others....

derived from my diary:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/12/16/15153/583

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
Subject: What we must make happen on 6 Jan 2005

Dear __,

Having reflected, all day, on the exceptional dKos Diary "Folks Don't Get It" by shanikka, my resolve to see the 'national election of 2004' halted on 6 Jan 2005 transformed to "do or die."

You should read what she had to say and what it elicited from others:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/12/15/9734/4841

I sent the following message to several colleagues:

We truly need millions of our fellow citizens in DC on 6 Jan.

I know we will join, together on that day, with responsible members of the HR and the Senate and halt the fraudulent national election of 2004.

We will halt it on 6 Jan 2005. That MUST BE THE TARGET DAY for the most massive demonstration in American history -- a demonstration that asserts conclusively that "we the people" will not tolerate anything but a HALT to the farce, the brutal, systematic attack on our fellow citizens in their effort to "form a more perfect union" -- to vote and know their vote was recorded as they intended.

We will remedy the situation by providing to each of our fellow citizens who are eligible to vote an equitable access to do just that -- vote.

We will ensure that each voter has a mechanism to ensure that their vote is counted exactly as they intend it to be.

We will save our American franchise of democracy.

We will bring joy and hope to all of humanity because of our actions between now and 6 Jan 2005, and every day thereafter.

We will never forget the peril to our Constitution, our freedom that we confronted together and resolved -- we will have lived and sacrificed in the honor of all those whose ideals and sacrifices have graced each of us and for whom we now must prove our gratitude.

We will prevail.

xxxxxxxx

"I'm an American patriot, not a pro-fraud theocrat" -- and, you betcha I approve of this message and will die making it stick, if that is what must happen.