Two Elections Officials Resign In Gaston County, NC

[cyn2]

POSTED: 9:39 am EST December 16, 2004

GASTONIA, N.C. -- Gaston County's elections director and the chairman of its elections board resigned after investigations revealed mishandling of vote tallies in the Nov. 2 general election.

Elections director Sandra Page, who has held her post for 15 years, resigned Wednesday following a six-hour, closed-door meeting of the board. Also resigning was Tony Branch, who heads the board.

Page and Branch left the county's elections office as board member Richard Jordan announced their departures.

http://www.wsoctv.com/news/4002177/detail.html

[Carolab]

1. Yep, "more votes than voters"....again

"...including a failure by poll workers to check the number of ballots cast against the number of people recorded as voting."

This is a recurring theme. I saw this in my state, many places. Here is the "padding". Here is the "popular vote". Here is the "mandate".

This entire election needs a thorough investigation, from the precinct level up. All of the machines. All of the software. All of the ballots. All of the "technicians" and the elections officials and pollworkers. Every damned thing and every damned body.

[smartvoter]

2. Hey, is there a pattern here? nt

[Niche]

4. YEAH CAROLAB!

:loveya: :kick: :loveya: :kick: :loveya: :kick:

[BernieBear]

17. This needs to be investigated!

Investigate Investigate Investigate

[noclonyofthechimp]

18. Probably a stupid question, but, let me guess, she is a repuke, right?

[SaveAmerica]

24. yes, she is n/t

[Senator]

35. It MUST be a "Show Me the Voter" standard

They produced the registrations to cover the padded tallies.**

They produced the padded tallies wherever they could get away with it.

They'll produce the ballots or machine tapes if they need to.

They'll even produce signatures in a book, should it come to that.

We need to say "Show Me the Voter"

A real live human being saying "yes, I voted." And at the voter's option, revelation of for whom (should be plenty to exptrapolate from).

That's the way to flip-flop his mandate to a courtdate.
_____

**Recall that they were "accusing" Dems of registering Mickey Mouse and Marilyn Monroe. As it they were going to show up to the polls? Why else would they consider that to be criminal unless on their side, it was?
______
www.thedeanpeople.org

[pbartch]

42. ANY WAY THE VOTE COULD BE CHALLENGED For Kerry????

Can we file lawsuits in North Carolina???

If so.............get on it. We need some NC Democrats to get some good lawyers.

[spooked911]

36. Sure, but what are the chances of that?

I do believe there was major vote fraud, but I am not so optimisitic anything will be done before Bush is sworn in again.

[Calvinist Basset]

39. I have my doubts too.

Bush will probably be sworn in before anything is done. Then it will be too late. But that fact just makes me mad. How can folks throw their hands in the air and say, "Well, he's sworn in. There's nothing we can do about it now"? After all, how can the swearing in be considered valid if the election that got him there was proven to be fraudulent?

Of course, there's always the impeachment route. But that doesn't answer my immediately preceding question; it isn't likely to happen (or happen successfully) with Republicans holding the majority of congress; and I'm not sure any of the potential replacements (provided Cheney and others down the chain of succession are implicated) are that much better than Smirky the Chimp.

[Niche]

3. Wonder if she/they had a crisis of conscious...

Great post cyn2!

some people can stomach the dirt other people resign.


edit - "thrive in the dirt"

[JunkYardDogg]

5. Yea, a Democrat got credited with receiving 5% of the Votes

You know heads gotta roll for that

[New Earth]

6. a Democratic?

:shrug:

** oops haha ok you fixed it.

[genieroze]

7. Hummm

" The other outstanding bills were to pay for technical support staff for the voting machines, Ponder said."

Technical support for electronic voting machines of 100 grand over budget? What, did have to pay the vote riggers?

[Zan_of_Texas]

8. Official steps down, suffering from sinusitis

I'm not kidding - check the article! Anyone want to send flowers? She can't give a statement until she recovers.

Meanwhile, a previous article says more about the failures of the election in Gaston. By the end of the article, it said even after working on them, only half the precincts had equal number of ballots and voters.

Gaston election inquiry begins

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/news/10251197.htm?1c

Director Page has few answers for state lawyer on voting discrepancies

Nov. 23, 2004
BINYAMIN APPELBAUM
Staff Writer

GASTONIA - Five times Monday the lawyer from the state Board of Elections
asked Gaston Elections Director Sandra Page what had gone wrong -- once for
each of Gaston County's major election problems.

Five times Page had no answers. "I thoroughly don't know about that," she said when asked why more than 13,000 votes were omitted from the county's unofficial election results. "I didn't know that it was my responsibility," she said when asked why not. And when the lawyer asked who else could possibly have been responsible, Page replied, "I did not know that I was responsible for counting votes."


<snip>
Earlier, commenting on Gaston's failure to check the number of ballots cast
against the number of people recorded as voting, Wright said, "There is no
excuse for what I've seen."

<SNIP>
The state is investigating five separate problems with the way the Gaston
elections office conducted, counted and reported the Nov. 2 election. The
problems did not affect the result of any race, but some state laws may
have been violated. And it is still not clear whether every ballot cast was
counted.

• A majority of the county's precincts reported a difference between the
number of ballots cast and the number of people recorded as voting. The
state is investigating why Gaston County submitted official results without
resolving the disparities. It is also investigating the cause of the
disparities.

• Gaston's recount of votes in two statewide races produced about 75 more
votes than the county's initial results. The difference was the number of
votes culled from about 750 optical scan ballots cast curbside by voters
who could not walk into a precinct. The state is investigating the disparity.

• The Gaston elections office paid at least three employees of private
companies to work as troubleshooters. One was a technician from Diebold
Election Systems, which manufactures the machines used in Gaston. The state
is investigating what role they played on Election Day and whether they
were properly supervised by elections officials.

• More than 13,000 votes were omitted from the county's unofficial results.
About 1,200 votes from a Dallas precinct were not counted until Nov. 8.
About 12,000 early votes were not counted until Nov. 9. The state is
investigating how the votes were omitted and why the error was not caught
sooner.

• Some ballots cast during early voting were not set up properly by poll
workers. As a result, they could not have been retrieved from the voting
machine if a ballot was challenged. The state is investigating the extent
and cause of the problem.


<SNIP>

[Carolab]

9. And how much they were paid?

"• The Gaston elections office paid at least three employees of private companies to work as troubleshooters. One was a technician from Diebold Election Systems, which manufactures the machines used in Gaston. The state is investigating what role they played on Election Day and whether they were properly supervised by elections officials."

Didn't they say they were $100,000 OVER budget? And then Blackwell complains about the cost of recounts.

[Jo March]

23. Page is seventeen types of useless. I keep saying that

It's about time she leaves.

[Calvinist Basset]

40. Somebody explain this to me.

Appelbaum makes these reports:

" And it is still not clear whether every ballot cast was counted."

"A majority of the county's precincts reported a difference between the number of ballots cast and the number of people recorded as voting."

"More than 13,000 votes were omitted from the county's unofficial results. "

"Some ballots cast during early voting were not set up properly by poll workers. As a result, they could not have been retrieved from the voting machine if a ballot was challenged."

But he still says:

"The problems did not affect the result of any race . . ."

Sure, these "problems" may not be proven to be state-wide (yet), but how can the results be reliably unaffected?

[rdmccur]

10. Ignatzmouse did a very good

analysis on the NC election vote tabulation that showed good evidence of fraud.

[SaveAmerica]

25. what happened to Ignatzmouse?

And the information he put together from NC's numbers? Will anything come from that?

[Critical Thinker]

32. I think Ignatz is still here someplace

and his quantitative analysis of NC election returns was truly groundbreaking - there are several folks in other jurisdictions that are following in his footsteps and taking the technique to even higher levels (jmknapp and iceburg are two that come to mind).

But it wasn't Ignatz that first called attention to Gaston County. I wish I could recall who it was, but very early-on somebody here at DU specifically singled-out the BOE in Gaston County as obviously incompetent and/or corrupt.

DU rocks !!! :headbang:

[texpatriot2004]

11. Can they still be arrested for election fraud after they resign?

Sarcasm On.

[KaliTracy]

12. NC, Lucas County (Ohio), what else

is next? How hard can it be for honest citizens to oversee the ballots and votes? Pressure, yes -- I understand -- yet, unless there is a lot of infighting, what could be done to keep voting sane and accountable?

A friend of mine kicked out an idea to the Hamilton BOE -- Voter Registrations with a Carbon Copy receipt -- and the signature of the person who helped you register. That way, if you don't get a card in the mail, you have a receipt to verify you did register.


Thinking past this inital idea --- it could be paired with a ID Number (not your SS#), and those who have already been registered would get a number too. -- if this were ONLY tied to eligible voting it might not be too restrictive (I don't know -- thoughts?) --

I saw the thread about the man who was trying to get interest for his Paper Trail e-vote box. That could work -- but I see time-stamps, etc. during the vote process (or *machine* numbers on the print out) as something that might get traced back to the voter in someway (unless I'm really not understanding how it works).

I've thought a lot today about "paper" ballots. I think a DUer might have mentioned putting a holograph or watermark or something on the paper.... though ballots could still be stuffed...

Thinking on-line here...

What about a booklet (created similar to ohio's punch card machines, One issue /slate of candidaes on each page) (one side only). Pages with a different color/mark so they are easy to do first organization of issues/races/etc. But here is the way to try to keep it honest....

1.Voter goes to poll table --

2. signs the poll book,

3. a printout number is already with the name ( a name is not on this sticker -- though the number is in the pollbook next to the name) -- the POLL Worker attaches to front of the Booklet. (stay with me)

4. the voter votes, DETATCHES all pages (which each have a unique mark, or are color coded for each issue/race for easy early separation)

5. FOUR Lock Boxes -- 2 for People in the POLL Book, and 2 for Provisional Ballots

People in the Poll Books
a. One which takes ALL vote sheets (No matter if one selected an issue or candidate or not)

b. The other which takes the EMPTY book. It has the voter# on it, but NO VOTES are inside it -- so your vote is still private.

6. If a recount is necessary -- the empty books can be counted, the number of people in the pollbooks can be counted, and the Ballots can be counted. Since the Books have Unique markings on the individual pages, very unlikely a "few extra" could slip in -- BUT on the unforseen chance that a "few extra" did -- the second box with the empty book AND the Registered Voters "Vote Number" on it, it would be relatively easy to do a check between the numbers on the books and the number on the pollbook Which has a signature. (hmmm Since NOTHING is in the empty book, could have voter SIGN the empty booklet before placing it in the Booklet Box. 2-3 more volunteers to oversee this aspect....

7. If there is a disparity in the number of Ballots being more than the number of Empty Books then _____________________ (something has to happen, not sure yet).

8. Oh, of course -- the fact you have a Carbon Copy of your dated registration would allow you to VOTE that day -- Poll Worker writes ID # along with his/her signature and New Voter's signature, and a number is WRITTEN on the assigned vote book, with Poll workers name. Voter still gets to vote -- Votes get placed in a "provisional" ballot box still (for verification purposes), and empty book is placed in a box only for Provisional Ballot books -- booklets have to align with Pollbooks.


I personally don't like the fact that "my" vote might be traced back to the machine via a time stamp, or "assigned" machine number with a time stamp....

Just kicking ideas around. I just don't think I'd ever be able to trust machine again for any election -- not unless something dramatically happens in the next year or so.


thoughts?

Possibility that it could take too long? But -- if lots of little "mini" cubes are set up for voters to write in their answers, more people could be voting at any given time....

better set of checks and balances? worse?

--edit for typos

"The important thing is to never stop questioning" -- Einstein

[Zan_of_Texas]

13. Voters think they want convenience.

They get all excited by internet voting (blah), or being able to vote by mail, or for two weeks.

If we want safe elections, I think we need to vote in one long session -- the shorter the chain of custody to be guarded, the less time to tamper.

No provisional ballots either -- why do we need those? I think they were used selectively, to discard minority votes.

Have same day registration, like Minnesota. Then, if your registration doesn't show up because some slob of an official didn't put it in there, you just register. Voila.

Any citizen who's not in jail on voting day can vote. Period. In their precinct.

Ink the left pinky or whatever on each person as they vote, so they can't vote twice (that was done in Venezuela).

Use lock boxes with glass bottoms, so no ballot stuffing. Keep them in view at all times. Use video cameras on the boxes.

Vote 7 am to 7 pm, or whatever is normal. One day. Paper ballots. Count the ballots IN THE PRECINCT -- no transporting them before they're counted. Everybody must agree before they are reported. Any citizen can watch the count. Post a large poster with the results at the precinct, and people there sign it. Take another signed copy of results to the counting place. Random recounts of the paper soon after, just to make sure.

Districts that bought voting machines -- sell them to other districts, enough so that each jurisdiction has enough for one or two per precinct, just to generate a printed ballot NOT COUNT THEM, for those who are disabled.

Canada seems to manage this, as do a number of European countries. In fact, in a large Canadian city (I think it was Ottawa) it was reported that they are done counting in a couple of hours. If you have manageable sized precincts (1000? 1200?), how hard can it be? And, the elections would be humanly discernible instead of elections by, for and about computer software technicians. It would be accurate and fair and transparent. And cheap. And, the lines would be short because there is no waiting for a machine, for most people.

[Doremus]

20. Something like this is the ideal model of an efficient election

Suppose we'll ever see it in our lifetimes? :(

[RhodaGrits]

38. Sinclair Lewis' Doremus Jessup? :-)

[PinkPantherChick]

37. OR..MAYBE SIMPLIFY IT LIKE AUSTRALIA and there it is the

LAW that everyone must vote, like it or not. Voting day is a holiday and they drink, vote, and have fun. They are all accountable by thumbprint and signature. An Aussie friend told me this years ago and there is no mix up, no questions and total reliability. Death or mental illness is the only excuse to not vote. :shrug:

[marions ghost]

43. Right this is what I know about Australia too,

...and there is a fine for not voting, comparable to a traffic violation. So the voters cannot be suppressed, anyway. I am curious about the Australian system. It would be interesting to know what kind of AUDIT capabilities Australia has and whether the vote is machine counted? Any Aussies out there?

[me b zola]

14. FRAUD!!! n/t

[Lil]

15. This needs to stay at the top. Wow - what a fiasco!

Thanks for the article and report, cyn2.

[evolvenow]

16. Jumping ship...is a very good indication...of FRAUD!!

How many will follow? The walk of shame has begun...

[Quakerfriend]

19. Am I missing something??

It seems to me that some of these mistakes could have been caused by remote manipulation of the votes, unbeknown st to the election workers. In which case, I applaud the employees for letting these "mistakes" come to light- even tho it makes them look inept. I'm betting similar things have happened in almost every state- only to have it "adjusted" or swept under the rug at the end of the day.
They don't have paper trails everywhere in NC, do they?

[bunny planet]

31. Just a few bad apples no doubt......................LOL

[ocean girl]

21. kick for the morning

[Karenca]

22. Page blamed discrepancies between the number of ballots cast and the numb

er of voters on precinct workers who failed to follow instructions. "We're sitting here victims of what happens out there, and we get the blame for it," she said.
The county failed to include more than 13,000 ballots - nearly one in five of those cast .

http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/elections/article.adp?id=20041216193509990010&cid=946

[bj2110]

26. kick

[BlueFlu]

27. It looks like the only way to insure fair elections is for DEMs

to run and get elected as Election Supervisors in red states, even if they have to run as a GOPer if necessary to get elected.

[demo dutch]

30. Good idea!

[idiosyncratic]

28. NC was another one of those states with weird exit vs.actual poll

results. I hope this fraud gets fully revealed.

[demo dutch]

29. Heads are starting to roll??? It's about time!

[Botany]

33. Stop all this bloging!

Get over it!

Bush won! Kerry lost!

No I will not just get over the theft of democracy by these Jesus using greedy pigs
who only care for money and power.

All ready posted on up ....... "Just a guess, is she a ree pig lee klan?"

:kick:

[Rose Siding]

34. A PENSION because "for 14 years she did an outstanding job"!!!

snip>
Page will not return to work but will remain on the county's payroll until her vacation days run out Feb. 15, Jordan said. She will retire with a state pension.

The board granted the favorable terms because "for 14 years she did an outstanding job," Jordan said
...................

NC tax dollars at work. What a JOKE :grr:

[proudncdem]

41. gaston county voter.

I live in gaston county. I waited in line over an hour to early vote only to find out later that the early votes were not counted in the original vote tally. I cannot understand why pick gaston county for fraud though. There was zero chance that this county would go for Kerry or almost any democrat. Some please explain this to me. I never thought something like this would happen here. It makes me SICK.

[juajen]

44. Skimming for the popular vote

Nuff said?

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

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