Need help refuting a freeper

[Blue in the face]

I post on a local political message board and have been publicizing the election fraud issue. It seems that the second chapter of the Freeper manual is to site instances of Democratic election fraud (all 5 of them).

To make my point that these people don't give a shit about democracy, but only covering their own asses I've pointed out that none of them did anything but scoff when I brought up the hundreds of issues of election fraud. But now that the recount is underway, a backlash is underway to discredit our efforts.

I need to point out that Dems have been arrested for their election fraud. Can anyone find the threads that were on here a couple of days ago talking about the arrests of Dems? I need to site the press sources of those articles.

Thanks in advance

[Blue in the face]

1. Nobody?

[Liberty Belle]

2. Did you look in Demopedia? Or try Google?

Search for "Democrat"+"arrested"+"election" or "voting" or something along that line.

Then tell 'em Bush's Republican campaign manager for New England has just been indicted for jamming phones at Democratic headquarters.

[Blue in the face]

10. I did a google search

It didn't come up. I do remember that name also, "How come only Democrats get arrested for Voter Fraud?". I'll dig back through or word the post differently.

And for those that think it's a waste of time. The board is a local political board. There are people of all stripes there. If I can't defend myself or make my points, then I don't just lose an argument to a Freeper, I lose the chance of educating Moderates and other Dems to what is really going on. If I get shotdown by some Young Republican with Rove talking points not being able to argue against a couple of examples of Democratic fraud, then I'm not going to be able to defend my point for long. You've got to be able to handle yourself on both sides of the political spectrum, IMO.

I appreciate the feedback. Thank you.

[Senator]

18. Not a waste of time

But if you really want to stick it to a budding neofascist, give their inner child a good spanking:

The Fallacy of the Nixon "Good of the Country" Concession

This is one of their prime Fractured Fascist Fairy Tales (big lies they literally need to sleep through the night).


__
www.thedeanpeople.org

[ClassWarrior]

3. If it's a freep, why waste your time?

You'll never convince 'em. Better to spend that time making connections with moderates and apoliticals.

NGU.

[life_long_dem]

7. I agree, the Dictatorsheep fear the truth.

[Us vs Them]

8. Don't bother. Spend the time you would have wasted

doing something productive.

Fighting them is getting us nowhere. Who are they? Members of the public? Citizens just like us? Fuck that, mate.

[thedutch]

20. I sorta disagree

I really love watching their eyes glaze over when they realise they are woefully uninformed. Oh, and start every rebuttal with the words "yes, however...", they hear the 'yes' and end up actually listening. hit 'em enough and they eventually are unable to say anything but simple 3-5 word memes.

Im getting riled up just thinking about it :)

[ClassWarrior]

25. It's a judgement call, true. You gotta decide who's hardcore...

...and who's soft. There are some Radical RW hardcores I know around whom I wouldn't talk politics if my sanity depended on it (and it does!). There are other folks who look hard at first, but have a soft underbelly. Those I go after whenever I see an opportunity.

But whenever someone talks about a "freep," that suggests to me someone who's really hardcore.

NGU.

[Griffy]

4. ya.. dont bother.. talk to Kerry supporters that dont know about the fraud

I find they believe it but are afraid of the crisis that would insue in a challenge... cant say I blame them. But we are the keepers of the truth, the ones at the front of the boat... so calmy and quietly inform them the iceberg is dead ahead!

[procinderella]

13. Agreed

It is very hard to convince hard core Reds. They are abusers of the system.

Just stick to the facts. The truth will out.

For example, someone just posted a question on DU: "Would we reount a state that Kerry won?"

You better believe we would if the voting system failed.

Tell anyone who think might listen, that the Democratic party is about the right to vote. Period. They get to vote for whoever they **** want to.

Without that right, we might as well all be living in China.

[ClarkinMich]

5. Google finds it

but the link is non-specific leading you to DU homepage... nice help.

google this:
Greens arrested election december blackwell site:www.democraticunderground.com

This is what the goole search returned... leaving you with more to search with...

Democratic Underground
... Ex-Congressman Arrested: Delivering letter to Blackwell Posted by Liberty Belle ... MoveOn
includes Republicans, Greens, and independents ... the last election is still ...
www.democraticunderground.com/ - 47k - Cached - Similar pages

I think I read this Monday night which means it is probably in the archives of this forum by now.


I am too new to know how to use search functions or archives on DU, but with the original poster's name (Liberty Belle), you should be able to find this.

GOOD LUCK

[Carolab]

6. They weren't arrested for "fraud"

they were trying to deliver Conyers letter to Blackwell and he had them arrested.

Why would you want to tell Freepers that Dems were arrested for fraud? I can't think of a single case, anyway.

Better you should send them to a website that catalogues all of the many problems with this election, like http://www.nov2truth.org.

[Red State Blues]

9. this may help

I believe the thread was titled something like "How come only Democrats get arrested for Voter Fraud?"

Maybe someone with search capability can help you out. Couldn't get it through Google.

I can't figure out how this info will do anything other than give a freeper a new club to beat you with though.

good luck

[chalky]

11. You mean the one about the guy signing up Mary Poppins?

Here ya go:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=153971

[libertypirate]

12. I will give you my best shot...

In the best interest for * illegitimacy he should want the recount to go forward. It seems like you guys got marching orders to "handle" certain view points aggressively and abusively. What are you guys afraid of, do you believe that democracy is stepping on the opinion of others and ensuring no one can hear the others view because you are trying to talk over them all the fucking time. I feel like telling you to grow the fuck up, stop acting like a little weasel.

Since you’re in with the Republican Party here is how you can help?

Keep it up, your tired and worn, and boring. We get it you don't care what you are talking about you will keep inserting your abuse until you drive everyone off the topic, and you win. Well you think you do, only to repeat your madness over and over and over. Never to achieve your desired result and you know what that is you stupid shit, insanity!

Attempting the same thing over and over again waiting for a different result = insanity

Your journey will never end... Good luck dipshit!

[Blue in the face]

15. "Good luck, dipshit!" LOL

I've had a history with some of these people ever since I went on the board promoting Clark. This was my response to a thread about something like 5 incidents involving ACORN:

Thank you for helping me further reiterate my point that the Conservatives on this board are not sincere in their interest in democratic electoral ideals. I don't recall you being up in arms about the many posts detailing the thousands of incidents of voter suppression and election fraud that has helped Bush get a second term.

But those few incidents of Left-wing voter fraud, that really sticks in your craw, huh?

By the way, you forgot to mention the NAACP voter registration worker that was paid in crack. The woman that authorized the transactions was found dead recently. I think she has been punished.

I think there's a word for ignoring the larger, more important issues of voting irregularities in order to focus on lesser issues that promote you viewpoint. That word is disingenuous.

[libertypirate]

16. Go with yours

mines to fuck off!

[rumpel]

14. Also, "West Texas candidate files suit alleging fraud in recount"

http://www.team4news.com/Global/story.asp?S=2696246

and

http://www.austinchronicle.com/issues/dispatch/2004-12-03/pols_capitol.html

HOME: DECEMBER 3, 2004: NEWS: SORE WINNERS

Sore Winners

HOME: DECEMBER 3, 2004: NEWS: SORE WINNERS

Sore Winners

The GOP seems determined to make representative government a game of 'winner-take-all'
BY MICHAEL KING

middle of article:

Closer to home, last week two defeated GOP state House candidates decided that Texas voters, otherwise so generous to Republicans, couldn't possibly have meant it when they rejected these two fine upstanding wannabes – even after recounts confirmed the voters' initial decision. One is Eric Opiela, a rookie barely out of UT Law School but with heavyweight Austin backing, who is challenging the election of Yvonne Gonzalez Toureilles in District 35, near Corpus Christi. The other is more formidable: Houston's Talmadge Heflin, a 22-year incumbent and budget chair who lost to Democratic newcomer Hubert Vo in the District 149 race by just 32 votes. Both men say they will come to the House in January – where, not incidentally, the Republicans will hold an 87-63 majority, even without them – and ask their would-be colleagues to overturn the results and either seat them outright or order new elections.

[Blue in the face]

17. Yet another example of Texas values

Or is it Republican values, or is it religious, or is it American values? I get them all confused.

[Emit]

19. I remembered this one...

because it really pissed me off. I hope you're using these examples to show how the Dems get arrested and MSM quickly reports it, doesn't refute it, and yet, despite ALL the evidence to date, Repugs go free and unchallenged. Why is it that the Repugs can get away with so much?

http://www.indystar.com/articles/7/201085-1947-098.html

ANDERSON, Ind. -- The Madison County Democratic Party chairman was one of two men arrested on vote fraud charges Tuesday.

Thomas Ashley, 70, the county Democratic chairman, and Kyle Barber, 47, are free on $5,000 bond each from the Madison County Jail. Barber was booked on 12 counts of vote fraud and three counts of obstruction of justice, and Ashley was booked on two counts of vote fraud.

Barber was identified as Ashley's son-in-law by WTHR (Channel 13), the Indianapolis Star's news-gathering partner.

The bookings follow a series of voter fraud investigations in Madison County by the FBI and Indiana State Police. In October, a former Madison County firefighter received a 10-day jail sentence for perjury in voting in the wrong location.

[BernieBear]

21. Freepers aren't worth it - don't bother n/t

[farmbo]

22. The mind of a Freeper is like the pupil of the eye...

...the more light that's shined upon it...the more it shrinks.

[insane_cratic_gal]

23. First the woman died

Of a OD.. curious if you ask me.

there was one instance of "voter fraud"

and over 40,000 complaints,of ELECTION Fraud malfunctions, not on poll books ect, machines recording votes wrongly

I would like to point out too, that When A democrat owns the machines.. it's bound to happen sometime.. It's about the almight "losing" dollar.
hell have no fury like a repuke scorned.

[Freddie Stubbs]

24. Area Democratic Official Charged With Voter Fraud

Two Other People Face Related Charges

POSTED: 8:07 pm EST December 10, 2004

ANDERSON, Ind. -- Police arrested the chairman of the Madison County Democratic Party on voter fraud charges resulting from a state and federal probe of last year's municipal election.

Tom Ashley, 70, of Anderson, was arrested Thursday on two counts of voter fraud. Police also arrested Ashley's son-in-law, Kyle Barber, 47, and Mindy Zeller, 25, of rural Anderson, on related charges.

All three were released from the Madison County Detention Center after posting a $5,000 bond Thursday.

"I'm not happy about it. But I'm not worried about it," Ashley told The Herald Bulletin of Anderson for a Friday story.

more: http://www.theindychannel.com/news/3989738/detail.html

[Chi]

26. This search string worked well

+"was arrested" +("voter fraud" OR "election fraud") +democrat

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=%2B%22was+arrested
%22+%2B%28%22voter+fraud%22+OR+%22election+fraud
%22%29+%2Bdemocrat&ei=UTF-8&fr=FP-tab-web-t&fl=0&x=wrt

Good luck with the discussion.
I would keep focus on 'Americans should be able to trust their election results', since 20% polled did not trust them, a recount should be a given to ensure that trust. It's the most basic American right...'free and fair election'.

And (a good question)....'what mechanisms are in place to detect voter fraud'.
My 2 answers to this would be ..
1) re-countable paper trail
2) Exit polls
The answer should leave them somewhat boxed in.

Frame it this way if possible, Do NOT bump heads or they will argue over everything, and agree with nothing.
They have been well programed.
(I been hanging out at FreeRepublic alot longer than here ;-) )

'As an American I am interested in truth, and election results I can trust. Is that too much to ask for?'