Green Party Candidate David Cobb blasts Kerry; says he's thwarting recount

[lostnfound]

http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=502

In an exclusive interview with RAW STORY Friday, the Green Party’s presidential candidate David Cobb lashed out at Sen. John Kerry, saying he Democratic nominee has tried to “undermine,” “delegitimize” and “minimize” the Ohio recount.

Cobb, who ran an unsuccessful bid for president, is at the vanguard of the Ohio recount. The Green and Libertarian Parties raised tens of thousands of dollars to pay for the recount and put county observers on the ground.

Meanwhile, Cobb observed, Kerry has not contributed “a single dime.”

“John Kerry is trying to minimize and undermine and delegitmize the recount,” Cobb asserted.

[arcos]

1. Kerry is probably saving his $51 million for 2008...

:mad:

[propagandafreegal]

19. Well, he can forget it nm

[Clark2008]

142. He can forget it everywhere

I don't think that folks who weren't for him in the first place in 2004 and, yet, still worked on his behalf because he wasn't Bush, will be so willing to do that in 2008.

Best the DNC get their heads outta their asses and support a candidate who can actually WIN a state or two and will FIGHT if the vote looks stolen (again).

[libertypirate]

35. Yeah like any election is a possibility with the fix in

That is just bull shit no one is going to win anything unless we deal with this election now. It sure as hell didn't change since in 2000, I don't see any reason why they would stop now.

[bearfan454]

37. There is no 2008.

He stands up and fights now or we will never win another election with the vote fraud.

[candice]

45. Jeb is scheduled for 2008 and 20012

Reagan/Bush I (8 years); Bush I (4 years); Cheney/Rove/Shrub (8 years) = 20 years of the Bush Dynasty. Add 8 for Jeb and what will be left of the country as we knew it?

He who owns the machines wins!

[The Backlash Cometh]

47. I'm afraid he's going to be Liebermanned.

Kerry hasn't done anything as bad as Lieberman did. But I think it's obvious that the Dems want him to have a higher profile and they want it right now. He needs to make a stand like our country depends on it. And it does.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

86. I agree. If this election isn't reversed, there won't be another one.

Frankly, although I voted for Kerry, I was not a big fan of his. I initially supported Dean, and in the NY Primary, although knowing Kerry would win, I voted for Dennis. My major concern about Kerry is his involvement with Skull and Bones, and the CFR. I wasn't none to pleased that in May, Edwards went to Italy to attend the Bilderberg Group Meeting (and to probably kiss David Rockefeller's ring while he was there).

The more Kerry isn't really contributing to the recount (going through motions, not supply NEEDED cash - look at how he has ignored NM), the more I am convinced that the fix was in from the get go. That they deliberately destroyed Dean to get their man Kerry to run. Dean would never take a fall.

This is either very black now or very white, with no shading in between. Either Kerry has a secret plan and the evidence to prove that the election was stolen, or quite frankly, he never intended to win it in the first place... (ie all of those gaffs..duck hunting, skiing, wind surfing, Teresa saying all the wrong things, etc.)

[bearfan454]

154. Please let me be wrong on this, but

if Kerry just goes along with the theft and doesn't stand up then he was in on it from the beginning. He has a lot of money. Could he be for the elite ? Please let me be wrong. I don't want this to be true.

[merh]

104. Cobb is wrong, there is no $51 million

there is $15 million and Kerry has announced that it will be used to help dem candidates in future elections. Cobb is mistaken and is calling Kerry out.

Wish he would get his numbers right.

Is Cobb correct that Kerry had a $51 million war chest following the election? Because CNN, among others, reported that Kerry had $15 million remaining. Following some pressure, Kerry agreed to donate a large portion to Democratic candidates running in future elections. CNN writes: Kerry “donated $40.5 million to Democratic causes in 2004, including $3 million each to the party’s House and Senate campaign committees. More than $32 million went to the Democratic National Committee, including $9 million targeted to state parties.

“DNC spokesman Jano Cabrera said that was the largest contribution the DNC has ever received, and the first from a presidential primary campaign.” http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/11/18/democrats.kerry.ap/ [br />

[ClarkUSA]

156. There's an additional 8 million from that "recount fund" Kerry solicited..

so that's $23 million that we know of, only a small, tiny, eeeny-weeny fraction of which has been used thus far.

[lthuedk]

122. Kerry: You'd better fight with everything you've got TODAY,

or you will sacrifice your future. Know it.

Not proving your loyalty today will only guarantee more of the same in '08. Start acting presidential.

[RaulVB]

2. WOW!

Shit, nothing else to add, I guess.

[Jo March]

3. Hmmm....is Cobb calling Kerry out?

This is a great time for Kerry to step in and prove Cobb wrong. Not bashing Cobb, just wondering if this is strategy. ?

[RaulVB]

6. Let's hope so...

Because those remarks don't read very good, I tell you!

[bunny planet]

50. Me too. If Cobb comes out and bashes Kerry that throws the flying monkeys

off the trail. Kerry just filed a suit in the Ohio recount two days ago, alledging fraudulent tampering with the machines, and asking for the machines to be impounded. That doesn't sound like undermining the recount to me.

[Doctor O]

71. Kerry did not file suit

He simply sent a letter to Blackwell. Since he has no legal standing in the recount, it will not get much attention from the state of Ohio.

[Igel]

79. I'd like to hear some peep, anything, from Kerry

that says he wasn't approached by a lawyer, advised to sign, and is otherwise hands off.

The letter from the lawyer intervening on Kerry's behalf says Kerry signed a letter granting him power of attorney: it doesn't even say Kerry approached him. So how active a role is Kerry playing in all of this, and how much is proceeding with him passively engaged in serious CYA activity?

[Doctor O]

94. Good Point We don't even know

if kerry directly any of the letters or actions taken. He is not going to get his hands dirty. What kind of President would he make if he does not stand behind his people who are working for him and more importantly working for what they believe in.

[Stand and Fight]

123. Could you be any more transparent?

Sheesh...

:eyes:

[ClarkUSA]

157. Not a fairytale strategy for wishful thinkers...Cobb is serious

Alot of people in the DNC membership feel the same way about Kerry.

[KyndCulture]

4. Scorching assessment. Can't say I disagree. nt.

[catgirl]

5. Correction

He was left with 15 million dollars. Didn't he just demand a criminal investigation into machine tampering? Or was that a civil lawsuit? I too wish Kerry would get mad!

[Chimpanzee]

7. He's at work behind the scenes! He's got our back!!

:eyes:

[catgirl]

10. Time to lift the curtain John!

[leftchick]

60. he's is "the real deal" too!

more like a raw deal! :grr:

[hippiechick]

65. sssshhhhhhhh, be vewy, vewy quiet ...

http://www.iuploads.com>


It's all part of the BIIIIIIG secret plan !! :eyes:


:hippie:

[SammyWinstonJack]

83. Yep!

:eyes:

[nodehopper]

160. keep dreaming.

[Bill Bored]

40. Clarification

There are supposed to be $51 mil. in the GELAC Fund, which is for legal and recount expenses. The FEC ruled that this account could accept unlimited contributions. The other $15 mil, is the money in the actual campaign itself which wasn't spent on ads, etc. So there may be as much as $66 mil!

[Peak_Oil]

8. Why am I not surprised?

This election has really opened my eyes. Democrats trashing Dean for DNC Chair, Kerry undermining his OWN RECOUNT... this is not my father's Democratic party.

This is friggin ridiculous.

The Internet is the new populist media. Forget the newspapers and TV news, they don't report anything interesting to the people anymore.

[malatesta1137]

20. exactly

and we're supposed to stay behind such man? I keep getting messages from moderators here to stay 'positive'. How can I do that when news coming out of the Kerry Camp are dismal at best?

[andyhappy]

23. Totally....

I feel so let down.

why doesn't he stand up and fight!

too bad we dont have a time machine so we could run Kerry form when he was 25 and had some balls.

now he is just a cog spinnnig his wheels in washington...

[Action Jackson]

32. it is possible to stay positive and bash kerry at the same time

[sabra]

9. I hope Cobb's statement is meant to intice Kerry to step up... n/t

[seito]

16. That is my interpretation n/t

[Stand and Fight]

125. Okay...

So, you mind expanding on that and sharing "your interpretation" with the rest of us?

Thanks!
:)

[genieroze]

77. Light a fire under his butt. lol eom

[Straight Shooter]

11. This is the same Cobb who campaigned at the Ohio hearings?

I listened and listened and waited and waited for some form of genuine complaint and all I got was a stump speech for his party.

I contributed to the recount effort, I applaud the Greens and Libertarians for initiating it. However, I strongly disagree that "John Kerry is trying to minimize and undermine and delegitmize the recount.”

As for contributions, whether "a single dime" or many dollars, who knows?

I really dislike focus being taken away from the recount effort and being directed towards any candidate. It serves no purpose except to give fodder to the media to excoriate John Kerry. Mr. Cobb is not going to build himself up by tearing John Kerry down.

JMHO.

[RaulVB]

15. I hope he is just making a push...

Because if his goal is to build a name for himself, he better wakes up!

[righteous1]

27. I think that's excatly what he is trying to do, Kerry

will bury him

[regularjoe]

91. The campaigning was at the first hearing in D.C.

And that was dissapointing. But at the second hearing (forum) in Ohio he shared the important info about TRIAD.

regularjoe

[New Earth]

12. oh boy

that's not good. i did kind of realize though, that sending letters to people doesn't mean much other than to say, 'we know what's going on'.

well if you know what's going on, then fucking DO SOMETHING about it.

i hope to god he is calling Kerry out. you know i dont' even care anymore i just want the truth to be exposed. fuck the rest.

[saracat]

48. Me too!

I keep praying though, and wishing and hoping!

[WilliamPitt]

13. Great

:eyes:

[mattclearing]

17. This seems suspicious to me.

A way to telegraph that Kerry doesn't support the recount efforts, even though his lawsuits say otherwise. A feint, perhaps?

[regularjoe]

93. They aren't his lawsuits. His lawyer joined one or two. n/t

[DireStrike]

14. A critical assessment

Or maybe cynical. Something like that.

Cobb is trying to replace the Dems with the Green party. He needs press exposure as the savior of our democracy. Kerry isn't giving it to him.

Not sure how much I agree with this.

[righteous1]

31. BINGO n/t

[propagandafreegal]

18. I think Kerry was in on it... check out this interview

with Mike Ruppert

http://www.blackopradio.com/inc_archives2004.html

Show #196

Michael Ruppert author of Crossing the Rubicon says that Kerry threw the election.

[politicasista]

21. This is not good

I guess all this "Kerry isn't really involved talk" continues. All this back in forth stuff is turning me off a bit.

[RaulVB]

22. You're an "elevator" anyways (n/t)

[politicasista]

25. Yes, you can put it that way Raul

:nopity:

[lonestarnot]

29. Crap all crap!

[propagandafreegal]

44. Are you John Kerry? How do we ever truly know? nm

[lonestarnot]

58. JK'S CONSCIENCE IS IN THE PEOPLE WHO VOTED AND WANT THEIR VOTES COUNTED!

[dzika]

24. I called the Kerry Legal Taskforce and

asked them to address these issues.

You can also contact them at:
202-863-8000
Ask for the Kerry Legal Taskforce or Amanda LeForge.

[saracat]

54. What did they say? Is it true the Kerry Team has contributed nothing?

[dzika]

74. I don't know.

I just left a voice mail for Amanda.

[kuozzman]

26. I think it's been clear since Nov. 3 that Kerry has no intention

what so ever of getting involved with this.

[KaliTracy]

28. but how could

the money go directly to recount? Though -- I don't know what the legalities surrounding the $$ and how it can be used. Isn't using it for lawyers, and to sue Blackwell, and the Deleware Judge, etc. -- in essence, using that money in order to ensure that the recounts do take place?

I mean, look at the "recounts" folks. Every single precinct has their own set of rules it seems -- and those who are following rules, suddenly "change them" when things don't go their way. They are all coming out "OK" when checked with 3% of the ballots so they can do the rest via machine. Will money force them to do it all by hand -- or do they have to still have a "bad" 3% result in order to do it?

I'm just trying to understand.


edited subject line

[tandem5]

30. yeah let's just tear each other down... its not like we have a common

enemy or anything.

[righteous1]

34. Cobb has no allegiance

to Kerry, Cobb has allegiance to Cobb. He will do whatever it takes to further his political standing and if that means dumping on JK so be it.

[The Gigmeister]

59. Agreed!!!

[regularjoe]

96. Why should Cobb have allegiance to Kerry?

Cobb may do some (foolish looking) campaigning along the way but maybe that is exactly what most people would do when they finally get an audience that realizes all of the terrible things that happen. And neither of the two main parties is innocent. Cobb found people that believe in some of the same goals he does, namely taking power away from money-loaded corporations and giving it back to people and voters. If Cobb just wanted power I doubt he would be Green. An intelligent guy could do much better playing the same games everyone else does in either of the two main parties.

regularjoe

[EFerrari]

107. Well, Cobb's loyalty is to the Green Party and by exttension,

to the process. Greens as a whole are a lot more issue and process oriented the MS parties.

[seito]

33. I'm Sorry

I'm not buying it. If statements like this are not meant to call Kerry out, then what purpose do they serve but to undermine the morale of those that are fighting to uncover the fraud?

Perhaps I am a hopeless optimist, but I believe that they are laying out the stage for Kerry to go public. If the rabbit hole goes as deep as we suspect, do you really think that Kerry the prosecutor, is going to sit back and enjoy his "eliteness"? We will find out soon in any case.

There will be plenty of time to reflect on what John Kerry did or did not do after Jan 20. Now is the time for unity, not public flogging. We are ALL on the same team.

No Retreat No Surrender

[mattclearing]

38. Like I said above, this sounds like a feint.

Someone has to go out and make it look like Kerry isn't involved, even when the lawsuits say otherwise.

[SeattleRob]

46. I disagree

I think the actions and more importantly the inactions of the Democratic Party Establishment and John Kerry do more to harm the morale of those working to uncover the truth than anything Cobb might say.

[bunny planet]

57. Thank you Seito, exactly my thoughts.

[IndyPriest]

68. Right on, Seito...

EVERY time Kerry goes forward, a major player says he's NOT going forward. It can only be a cover to keep the heat off Kerry as the chess game continues.

Or, Kerry's an asshole.

But I think it's the first. And, as you say, we'll see!

[seito]

148. lol IndyPriest

Way to keep your mind open.

We SHALL see...

[femme.democratique]

115. Nice post, and very appropriate.

Kerry has until 1/6 to prove himself, and if he doesn't may hell rain down on him for shirking his duties as a Senator and as an American citizen...until then, I remain supportive yet healthily skeptical.

[straw_citizen]

135. The problem is who is on the team

For all the talk of pulling together as a team, it's important to cast off those 'team members' who pull in the opposite direction or sit idle.

Example: being a (falsely) rare blue state does not mean everyone one in that state is on the same team. It means it's just as crooked as the red states because it's the only way they can stay blue.

Actions speak for themselves when watched. Internal organization and careful watching with less trust within parties, is the key to flushing out those who would enslave Americans and other countries to a fascist oligarchy. Never assume someone is on 'your' team just because they say they are.

Current events culminated because not enough people acted to prevent the farsical primaries from steam rolling Kerry in after Dean fell to the scream frenzy. But even Dean did not debate as well as Kucinich. Nor has Kucinich publicly appeared to help in Ohio recently. The rest are self-explanatory to those who've been tracking things but, imo, now that all colors have been displayed by actions or lack of, there was not one truly viable candidate to run for POTUS.

The focus should remain on supporting whoever ends up restorng democracy through voting integrity, so this republic doesn't keep flopping like a fish on land.

[FULL_METAL_HAT]

141. Excellent words Seito! So Excellent I just changed my sig!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

la voila...


on second voi I notice sigs are off at "level 1" ...

so a little manual sig:

There will be plenty of time to reflect on what John Kerry did or did not do after Jan 20. Now is the time for unity, not public flogging. We are ALL on the same team." - Seito

---

"The wronger a conspiracy is, the better it is." - Mark Twain

[seito]

147. I am honored

Thank You

[Imagevision]

36. At Least we know where Kerry stands...

[Straight Shooter]

42. No, we know where SOME PEOPLE SAY he stands /eom

[Imagevision]

39. Seito - good point...I'll hang till the 20th

[The Sushi Bandit]

41. kICK!

[gulogulo]

43. Cobb is just being Green

Can't hold in the bashing of Democrats. Party interests first etc. Greens are useful because of recounts etc. but don't fool yourself - they are still a separate political party with interests that may be opposed to Democratic Party's interests.

[bunny planet]

62. Yeah. As soon as I donated to the Greens and specified I wanted the money

to go directly to the Ohio recount, they started emailing me and calling me constantly asking me to come to Green Party meetings in my state. I never joined the Green Party, just joined the recount. They are definitely using this to try and sign on new members to the Green Party. Time for that later, right now they should be focusing on helping reveal what happened in this election. Kerry can't have filed a lawsuit alleging fraud and tampering with the machines prior to the recount and then also be undermining the recount. Those two things are contradictory, they just don't jive.

[EFerrari]

108. Of course we're a separate Party. And that's why Cobb has no

self-promoting reason to bash Kerry. He'd get no gain for himself from the Greens for doing so. And he doesn't need to do recruiting. The Green party is the fastest growing party in the country all ready.

On the other hand, the people that are recounting OH are getting their tires slashed, running out of money and need more help. Maybe the guy is just frustrated that more resources aren't being offered. Maybe he means what he said <g>.

[bunny planet]

49. Isn't this the same Raw Story that just printed a headline about Kerry

filing a fraud case in the Ohio recount and asking in strong words for the impounding of the machines? Which is it? Is he undermining the cause or working on saving the recount? I'm so confused.

[SueZhope]

52. he might just be putting a toenail into the water

for appearances , if you believe Cobb.

Or this is a call out from David Cobb..all part of the master plan.

take your pick:shrug:

[bunny planet]

63. Thing is, it was hardly a toenail, more like the whole leg up to the

kneecaps. He called for the impounding of the machines for f*ck sake. That's pretty much more than toenail dipping.

[regularjoe]

103. That wasn't a lawsuit. Just a letter. It has no more legal weight than

the letter conyers sent to Blackwell that was basically ignored because Blackwell replied without answering any of the questions and basically saying he would only comply with the GAO and FBI.

regularjoe

[bunny planet]

105. I stand corrected. I was not a lawsuit, there is so much going on, I can

get confused. It is a strongly worded letter nonetheless. Perhaps a lawsuit is not far behind. I hope so.

[kk897]

144. I guess what people need from Kerry is more than a letter

or a lawsuit. Maybe they'd like to see him announce a press conference, hold it in front of all the world's media, and say, "there was fraud in Ohio and we intend to prove it to the American people."

I know I'd like to see it, and for my part he wouldn't have to "unconcede" to do it. I wasn't a strong Kerry supporter, especially, but then again I don't feel any particular animosity towards him now. I'm just insatiably curious why he hasn't held a press conferece or done anything more but talk through his lawyers.

[mary195149]

51. The american people have the power to change things,

Kerry needs OUR voice to be heard. We will have more impact than he can ever have. He is working hard behind closed doors but he is relying on us to bring it home. Remember the comment he made about the difference we made when we stood up to Sinclair Broadcast? Could he of had that kind of impact?

[dzika]

67. A Kerry Spokesperson should respond

A Kerry Spokesperson should, at the least, respond to Cobb's comments.

Obviously, Cobb gave this interview for a reason.

I don't think it is too much to ask for a response to the allegations that “John Kerry is trying to minimize and undermine and delegitmize the recount”

To me, this statement accuses Kerry of a willful act. It's pretty tough rhetoric considering the appearance that Kerry and Cobb have been somewhat coordinated up to this point.

I believe that it deserves a response.

[Helga Scow Stern]

53. Maybe this will get Kerry to pay for the NM recount. n/t

[The Gigmeister]

55. Please...

...Like all Greens, I suspect Cobb is only interested in the downfall and eventual takeover of, the Democratic Party. And all of this actions, including this one, are geared in that direction.

Personally, I'll stand behind the decorated war hero and politically successful Democratic Party member, the Honorable Senator Kerry.

[Joe Chi Minh]

161. Well said,

matey!

[saracat]

56. Question. If Kerry has his own lawyers working on this, why

would he need to contribute?

[mzmolly]

129. Additionally, who the hell does he think is "paying" the attorneys?

:eyes: The operation isn't entirely pro-bono.

[intelle]

61. I am surprised tht Cobb doesn't have his facts straight

Kerry donated a lot of that $51,000,000 to other candidates and the DNC. I believe he has about $15 mill left over.

Whenever I see a fact discrepancy, this places suspicion on the rest of the article.

[suffragette]

70. And Kerry used some of that money

to help with the Washington recount.

[intelle]

76. Also true!

[Igel]

80. Lots of money for WA recount ...

but nothing to cover the OH recounts. (After all, glibs are providing observers, observer training, and paying the precinct-based fee.)

Where you put your money has to at least partially reflect intentions.

[EFerrari]

112. That may be Cobb or it may be reporter n/t

[shiina]

64. Kerry threw it?

I've been wondering if he was throwing the election for a long time. There were so many things he could have taken Bush out on that he never did.

[buzzard]

140. Such as what? I don't know of anything that could be proven in a court.n/t

[RubyCat]

66. Kerry is the boxer who's afraid to get into the ring. His

managers physically throw him in, but just as quickly he scurries back out. What a major, major disappointment that man is. I'm embarrased for my party.

[politicasista]

72. Please stop hating on Kerry

Smirky, Doughboy and his posse are somewhere laughing at us for tearing our own down.:argh:

[NewsGuyOne]

101. Kerry has been a bum of a candidate

He deserves everything he gets from our side.
Maybe next time we'll choose a candidate that represents the left.
The Republicans don't seem to have a problem catering to the right. And that's why they've mobilized their nutcases. That's why they are absolutely destroying us in the national debate.
We're trying to win the center, for some stupid reason.

[Pepper32]

69. Why now?

Maybe he has a valid complaint, maybe he doesn't. I don't know. I'm not ready come to any conclusions without all the facts.

However, I have to question Cobbs timing. This is not good.

[kk897]

145. timing might be because of the NM ruling yesterday

Kerry definitely didn't step in to help pay that 1.4 million (or at least as far as I know). Maybe he's bitter about that.

[mirandapriestly]

73. Cobb says that Kerry wants to stay a part of the ruling elite

rather than fight this. After what happened to Al Gore who WON the 2000 presidential election and yet he is sort of treated as a joke, especially by the rethugs, I can see where he thinks coming forward might ruin him. I wish he would give money to the Ohio effort, though. I see allegiances being split and the dems becoming weaker, while what should be happening is the anti Bush forces uniting to fight the evil.

[deminflorida]

78. The Anti-Bush forces need to unite behind Wes Clark and.....

Howard Dean. That's the only real way to get the shit running down the legs of the traitors in Washington.

All grass-roots campaigners need to stop all money to the DLC/DNC and send it to Political PACs of Wes Clark and Howard Dean. - AND THAT'S A BIG PERIOD....

[righteous1]

82. According to Madsen

Wes Clark was a Rovian plant

[high density]

89. Madsen seems to have lots of bad info

His voter fraud stories have been so laughable that he's even had to admit that he published complete bullshit.

I'm not sure why Rove would give us the gift of a liberal four star general... but whatever floats your boat. :)

[AntiFascist]

143. I don't know about "Rove plant".....

but what about "closet hawk"?

[high density]

153. Well he certainly wasn't for the Iraq war...

...So I have no clue what you're talking about. During the general election season he was a very effective surrogate for Kerry and blasted Bushco constantly.

[genieroze]

75. Huh!

:wtf:

[Tomasj]

81. Makes me wanna turn green!

Seems like they are the "real" patriots!

[zapped 1]

84. why now?

Interesting. He waits until after Kerry actually does something truly signifigant that is public knowledge...

[regularjoe]

106. Kerry's Lawyer. We don't know if Kerry had much to do with this.

And maybe he is doing it to point out the hypocrisy of helping a little bit, but not committing to help? Like he wants to support the recount but only enough to satisfy people complaining that he isn't doing anything. Who knows, basically this whole this is a sad story.

regularjoe

[shraby]

138. Kerry's lawyer doesn't act without Kerry

telling what to do. No lawyer does.

[witchhazl]

85. This is how Kerry is undermining the recount efforts.

The courts keep ruling against the Glibs because they cannot suffer "irreparable harm"; only Kerry could make the courts act, since the only change of outcome could occur would affect Kerry.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x172558

From thread "2004-12-17: Ohio Recount Update from Cobb campaign"

snip-
On December 7, 2004, our attorneys sent a letter via facsimile and via overnight mail, on our behalf, to Secretary Blackwell outlining a series of issues relating to his Outline of Recount Procedures as posted on his official website. We stated in the letter that "resolution of these issues is necessary in order to ensure that the recount is conducted uniformly in the various county boards of election and in accordance with state and federal law."

As reports from conversations with the different Boards of Elections and our County Coordinators began to come in last week, we grew concerned about the varying standards throughout the State of Ohio as to how the recount in each of the counties would be conducted. Those varying standards raised serious equal protection and due process concerns. We attempted to go back to Federal Court again on Friday, December 10th before the recount began. The judge denied our Motion for Injunctive Relief citing, as before, the lack of 'irreparable harm' that we would encounter — the third time our efforts to seek a timely and meaningful recount was denied because David Cobb and Michael Badnarik, the Green and Libertarian presidential candidates, respectively, were unlikely to get any electoral college votes.

-end snip

[lonestarnot]

99. One suit dismissed with this ruling

[republikkkon]

87. who else thinks

kerry was in on the fix from the beginning... in exchange for the same thing bush got in 2004 in 2008?

skull + bones. just throwing it out there. i can't see any other reason kerry is being such a pussy. i'm really really upset with kerry.

[New Earth]

88. NOT AT ALL

I'M TIRED OF HEARING THIS BS ABOUT SKULL AND BONES.

i think that's got to be one of the WORST 'conspiracy theories' we have right now.

[saracat]

109. It is stupid isn't it?

[Im with Rosey]

126. Isn't this exactly what they want?

We are playing into their hands when we go on and on about JK not doing enough... There is soooo much info that can work in our favor, but if we continue this, it will be divide and concur, and they will win! I am going to continue to support the path JK has taken, hopefully it will be proven to be the right(left) path.

[lonestarnot]

100. Ridikulus......

[AmerDem]

90. As long as the end result is

for us as a nation to have fool proof, honest and accountable elections I can care less how these people tear one another apart. I see exactly where Cobb is coming from on Kerry. If Kerry was really interested in exposing voting fraud he wouldn't have conceded so early, he would have been out there non stop speaking about this election. Instead he chose to say nothing, do nothing and throw out lil messages to keep his supporters longing for more.

WE will take back everything when the election process is fix and it will be done in less time then it was stolen away from us.

[politicasista]

92. This feels like a see saw game.

We are all getting frustrated. I am sorry but I think Kerry is getting some bad advice from his people.

[AmerDem]

95. it truly is sickening

None of what's been going on comes from a logical place. It's like a massive brain fart being forced on us. I wouldn't take any of this as Kerry being misled by people. The campaign is over and Kerry is his own free thinking self.

[elizm]

124. Bad advice?

"I think Kerry is getting some bad advice from his people."

Well, now that wouldn't be a first, would it?

[Peace Patriot]

97. This situation is not easy to read, and I would hesitate...

...to make any hasty conclusions about it. For one thing, Cobb's criticism of Kerry MIGHT mean that Kerry is about to jump in, in a big way--go more public on challenging the election (beyond filing the impound the machines lawsuit, and other such measures). Cobb did seem self-serving at the 1st hearing, so maybe Cobb is just trying to maintain some power for himself and the Greens, preparatory to Kerry stepping in. (It would be a natural and okay thing to do, in my opinion--the Greens have led the way.)

Fundraising--this has all been GOOD for the Greens, got them lots of donations and supporters, and people like me ready to change parties.

Agonizing as it all is, I think we won't really know what's up until Jan. 6. That will be the big shakedown moment. But we might have some idea before that, from Kerry and other folks like Conyers and Maxine Waters (who have already indicated they are prepared to challenge Jan. 6. Waters said so, in Randi Rhodes interview, and also said she was going to talk to Kerry).

I don't think Kerry "threw" the election. I think he played it just right, according to his own feeling for strategy--and, guess what? --he won! (--with a lot of help from the most amazing democracy movement ever to arise in this country).

But I do think the Dem leadership was catastrophically negligent in allowing Diebold to keep their central vote tabulator source code a SECRET (jeez!) and not screaming bloody murder about that, and no paper trail. (They owe us an apology!)

It's hard to see how Kerry is undermining the recount. His lawsuits and official letters say otherwise. He's in a much dicier and more dangerous position--and has a lot more to lose--than Cobb.

[NewsGuyOne]

98. Who does the Democratic Party Represent?

They chose Kerry for "electability."
This guy sounded like a Republican during the entire primary season.
Then he took Dean's platform when he won the nomination.

As tragic as the Bush era has been, it's not nearly as tragic as the demise of the Democratic Party over the last 12 years.

[lonestarnot]

102. LOL You funny grasshopper....

[Joe Chi Minh]

162. I don't recall any Repug

or any DEM, for that matter, stating that he/she would regenerate manufacturing industry, with the creation of jobs and proper rates of remuneration! Or impose financial penalties companies outsourcing abroad! That's real New Deal talk.. since you hadn't noticed.

[mdb]

110. Jesse Jackson had negative words toward Kerry over this as well.

They are two who have been in close contact with Kerry and staff. Like a lot of us, they just want Kerry to stand up to this.

[saracat]

113. Jesse made his statements BEFORE Kerry joined the suit.

And Kerry just filed another petition regarding vote tampering this Wed. Give it a rest. It isn't as if he has done nothing. There is just no MSM.

[mdb]

117. Hey..maybe because Jesse didn't give it a rest Kerry moved forward some.

[saracat]

111. Contributed a dime to WHAT? If Kerry is paying his own lawyers

and joining in with the Glibs, who don't have enough standing on their own, who is he supposed to give money to? The Greens? This is ridiculous.I agree Cobb started the ball rolling ,but he couldn't keep it rolling without Kerry. And Kerry can't contribute to another party!

[mgr]

114. Friday press release? Smell test please.

First off, if this is a site for Democrats, why are we teeing off based on a Green Party action, or is it just that we eat our own? I just don't get the Greens better than Dems vibe. If you never put someone on the pedestal, you never have to trouble yourself tearing them down.

It should be obvious that this is for Sunday press play, and is meant to show that the recount is by and for the minor parties. All can gain federal funding in the next election if they are able to show viability, this is the basis for their involvement in a recount. There is nothing noble or patriotic about it, its for the money.

If there is to be strong Democratic Party involvement, it will be with the Arne back lawsuit, not the recount. Don't look to the recount to redress the fraud, and don't look to Kerry to join monetarily.

If you are a Democrat, it is the voter suppression that should trouble you most--that was almost completely out in the open, and is a well known and documented Republican gambit. If you believe in Civil Rights, and don't give it liberal lip service, you would support the lawsuit. If you want to hit Bush with a hammer this is the way. Compassionate conservatism my ass--you don't deny folks the vote.

If there is Fraud, the election must be thrown out, how will a recount achieve this? How will a recount following Ohio's statutes, show fraud?

(--I realize that one of the unintended outcomes of the recount is the failure of counties to follow recount guidelines, but all this will do is require a redo of the recount, it will not beg that the election be thrown out--)

Flame away. But first, let me pull an old debate trick--I am a registered Democrat from California since 1976 (when I turned 18). I have missed only one election in that time, and have stayed away from Party involvement(where I live it would not make sense now, though I might work hard to get Pombo gone), and have been active in anti-war and environmental work. Kerry was my first and only choice for this election, he strikes me as Adlai Stevinson with guts.

Mike

[bunny planet]

134. you sound very wise mgr. Thank you for your post.

[EFerrari]

139. Good points, Mike. 2 thoughts: it was the recounters who

got hard evidence of the tabulator tampering, wasn't it? Who knows what else they can turn up that will help the lawsuit.

Two, of course the recount will be blocked and or rigged as well. But not persuing it seriously would be a mistake, I think. It's the law. If we cave on this, what's next up for erosion?

[kk897]

146. I believe the tabulator evidence came not from recounters but from a

Hocking County BoE employee.

[EFerrari]

150. Stand corrected. Info overload.

[kk897]

151. I Know how you feel!

it's really hard to keep up!

[Name removed]

116. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[New Earth]

118. hey guess what

KERRY WON, GET OVER IT!!!


:hi:

[Name removed]

119. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[New Earth]

120. i don't believe you

[Joe Chi Minh]

163. Tee hee!

Well said, Faye!

[IAMREALITY]

121. Damn Right Faye! KERRY WON, GET OVER IT!!!!!!

BUSH IS GOING DOWN!!!!!!!!!

WOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOO!

[mattclearing]

127. I love it.

Enthusiasm is contagious.

[info being]

128. Kerry really isn't turning out to be much of a leader

[Forkboy]

130. Dont fret...Kerry has a secret plan!

[righteous1]

131. And what might that be? n/t

[Forkboy]

132. We'll know it when we see it!

[Emillereid]

133. Kerry's incredible lack of leadership and courage have ruled him out for

me -- I won't ride that donkey again unless by some miracle he should happen to grow a backbone and provide real leadership in Ohio. Next time I am not going to be blackmailed by the ABB argument -- if we don't draw a line in the sand now over the integrity of the electoral process -- there really is NO NOXT TIME! Kerry just doesn't get it. I hate to admit it but my repuke brother-law is right -- Kerry is a WUSS! Maybe he should talk to Yushenko.

[politicasista]

137. Okay let's nominate a street fighter then

Unfortunately had Kerry won, this whole fraud issue would be mute.

[BamaBecky]

136. This really is disheartening, isn't it? Reading the posts, I just feel the

frustration. We know Kerry won. We know Bush stole the election. We are struggling to prove it. We are FURIOUS with the media, mad the fundamentalist idiots who "fell for the Rove bait". I Personally don't know what to make of it all. I come here everyday hoping to gleam some tidbit of "good news". I for one, can not for the life of me figure out what Kerry has to gain by being silent. Maybe you guys can help me with that. And what's the problem with the REST of the Democrats? Why can't they say something about the election fraud every now and then? Help me understand that. Is everybody waiting on the perpetrators to stand up and say.."Ok, I monkeyed with the tabulators and the machine code"? I think that we already know just about everything there is to know to date. And it doesn't seem to matter, what the investigators come up with, or what the affidavits say....the masses don't care. Deadlines come and go. Perhaps the court cases will throw out Ohio's election - seems like a very long shot, from where I sit. Talk about somebody that's not in the loop! Nobody should hang their hopes, or the lack of them on what I have to say. News of evidence comes out, and I get all excited. Then I read a thread like this, and I'm ready to turn off the computer........

[The Judged]

149. This argument is just as valid as arguing that because Bush hasn't ...

directly been witnessed ordering and/or participating in election fraud that he has nothing to do with it.

The logic is the same: Bush and Kerry cannot politically afford to be on the front-line of either United States election fraud or the gathering of evidence of it, respectively.

[EFerrari]

152. Exact;ly. And why is it okay with us for our reps, even those

reupping to be our reps (i.e., president) to so far remove themselves from our concerns.

Gonna get a rope.

[Joe Chi Minh]

164. A very good point, Judged

[Mojorabbit]

155. I find this quote interesting

"saying he Democratic nominee has tried to “undermine,” “delegitimize” and “minimize” the Ohio recount"

These are active words as they describe actions. I would love to know in what ways he has undermined the effort. If Cobb still has hopes for Kerry to become more active he would not go into more detail just in case, but if nothing comes of it I bet we will here some disappointing things that happened in the background. It just sounds to me like a threat that he will spill details if Kerry does not step up.
Just my gut feeling....

[buddysmellgood]

158. If Kerry does not step up before January 6, if Democratic leadearship

continue to remain silent, the party as we know it is over if you ask me. I'll not be a part of such a spineless organization. This "quiet period" better be part of a plan. If the hammer does not come down, I'm gone. I'll vote and work Green and I'm not alone. I might just do that anyway unless they SHOW ME THE VOTES.

[Joe Chi Minh]

159. Meanwhile,..

Cobb observed, Kerry has not contributed “a single dime.”

“John Kerry is trying to minimize and undermine and delegitmize the recount,” Cobb asserted.

What a non sequitur! For crying out loud...!

When you've got malatesta pitching for you, what more do you need?Well, a session with a good shrink might help.