Likely Bev Harris may be arrested for fraud?

[Sub Zero]

One of the talking heads on MSRNC today briefly shot off that he thought Bev Harris may be arrested on multiple counts of fraud, among other things, and that he essentially expected the shit to hit the fan with a government investigation in to her after the end of this tax year.

I think he may have been on to something.

After seeing the numbers posted here (where - a little - of the money went) it certainly looks like a large sum may have been, at best, "misappropriated".

If money was solicited from hundreds/thousand of people under the guise of working on voting issues, but ended up being spent on a vacation, for example, well that's a hell of a lot of fraud charges. Not to mention anything else that they might also charge her with, and when it comes to inappropriate activity with money there is a TON you can be charged with. No doubt some of it came in from wire transfers. Some from the mail. That's mail and wire fraud charges right there - and can get you a couple decades in prison especially if you have multiple charges.

It actually makes sense that this might happen. They need this vote rigging talk to stop. If bushco wants to cause massive credibility loss to any claim of vote rigging, what better way to do it than to charge one of the most well known advocates with multiple felonies? Then whenever such concerns come up, Rove can just have the media point to it all as being the result of a giant scheme of fraud and dismiss it as such.

I have already read that harris said months ago that some agent was investigating her.

I would not at all be surprised if they do it.

[KoKo]

1. One more person who fought against BBVoting...bites the dust....

Let's all jump up and cheer from the grandstands. Another Criminal is found out!

[Junkdrawer]

34. I feel the same, KoKo. Blackwell's crimes are not prosecuted...

and the DA's eyes turn to Bev.

Black is White and Up is Down.

[propagandafreegal]

64. I think anyone who comes up against the neocons has to have their shite

together and be organized. Bev has some flaws that 'opens' her up to counterattack by Bush/The Neocons/ etc...

[Name removed]

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[Sub Zero]

5. Everyone is talking about it

Go check out this thread for example: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x171696

The fact that it's now being suggested in the media is cause for concern. Even R Rhodes is concerned about the money. One of the recent shows archived at whiterosesociety.org has her going off about it.

[Eric J in MN]

8. That thread shows the exact opposite, that she's using

the money for FOIA, not a vacation.

[Sub Zero]

20. Under 20,000

out of 200,000+ for FOIA. That makes you comfortable?

[Eric J in MN]

65. There will be more expenses. She

shouldn't spend it all now.

[TrustingDog]

19. the fact that it IS being discussed in the Media is cause for concern...

idiots.

[Sub Zero]

21. What we need being discussed in the media

is voting issues. NOT drama and negative PR.

[xultar]

13. First of all I thought we weren't supposed to make comments on low post

counts here.

Second you wanna talk about advancing liberal causes chime in on some of the circle firing squads around here. That would surely help with some of our 'Liberal' causes.

[Razorback_Democrat]

3. Do you have any proof of your allegations?

or is this just a flame bait thread?

"If money was solicited from hundreds/thousand of people under the guise of working on voting issues, but ended up being spent on a vacation, for example, well that's a hell of a lot of fraud charges. Not to mention anything else that they might also charge her with, and when it comes to inappropriate activity with money there is a TON you can be charged with. No doubt some of it came in from wire transfers. Some from the mail. That's mail and wire fraud charges right there - and can get you a couple decades in prison especially if you have multiple charges"

[shraby]

50. Do you have a link

for your "story"?

[Name removed]

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[The Straight Story]

6. As I keep Saying - get the congress to use BBV machines, no audit trail

And see how they react. Maybe the dems will wake up and fight then a little harder.

[Twist_U_Up]

16. good take -

that maybe the course after Jan 20

[Straight Shooter]

7. I honestly don't believe Bev Harris is a fraudulent character

I just think she has problems compartmentalizing and delegating, and she really should have spent some money (wisely) on media training.

The RW noise machine is gearing up. I don't think that many people outside of the Internet are really aware of Ms. Harris, but when the MSM gets through ravaging her, she will finally become what it looks like she wanted to be, a household name.

Oh, Lord, we soooo don't need this.

[NVMojo]

11. I agree, we really don't need to be eating our own...

the repukes are doing a fine job cooking our goose...and eating it.

[BansheeDem]

67. Just a stray thought ...

"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power. (Abraham Lincoln)"

Not taking anything away from Abraham Lincoln's quote, but the following would also apply:

Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, play golf with him.

The other saying that I like:

Golf doesn't build character, it reveals it.

[Name removed]

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[Sub Zero]

14. Nice

Let's just wait for this to explode all at once and be caught off guard once again.

This could seriously hurt any chance of getting voting issues resolved. Maybe we should just put our heads in the sand though.

[MissBrooks]

10. Yeah.... sure....

I'll believe it when I see it.

[enough]

12. Of course they will try to discredit Bev and anyone else who

gets the least bit of name recognition in the media. This is one of the reasons why we need to keep it a mass movement and not depend too much on "leaders."

(Note, I am NOT saying that Bev is a saint. I have no idea how BBV has been spending its donated money. Just that they will certainly go after anybody even remotely threatening. That is their way.)

[Kelvin Mace]

32. If Bev had not

- Driven away and libeled her own allies and fellow activists
- Alienated just about every reporter covering this issue.
- Alienated Keith Oberlmann
- Alienated and libeled DU, the Kerry campaign, and the Democratic party
- Publlicy acted in a way that brought great discredit and doubt upon herself and her organization.
- Refused to delegate tasks she could not handle.
- Made Randi Rhodes look foolish for supporting her.
- Made silly claims about being supported by George Bush.

and many, many more thing;

we would not be having this conversation.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[KoKo]

60. Do "YOU" think she is a possible "Criminal?" eom

[Kelvin Mace]

63. Once again, for about the 40th time

I have said that I do not think Bev is a criminal. I have, in fact, said it in this thread. I find her incompetent, petty, vindictive, dishonest, spiteful and paranoid, but I have not accused her of being a criminal.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Name removed]

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[Sub Zero]

17. Not much that can be accessed online

if that's what you'd like. I'll say, however, that I was a delegate to the convention. Maybe that should be a hint of just how involved I am.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

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[Sub Zero]

23. Cute

And I do not know who he was nor the program. I'm not even sure what most of their programs are called.

[AmerDem]

29. I'm not being cute

Understand me, I take what you are saying very serious. You make major accusations about Harris but you fail to come up the basic information of your opening post. Next time be more attentive before starting a thread. For all we know you are as confused on the subject matter as you are on the details of the show you say you actually watched.

[Sub Zero]

31. I am not confused

the conversation went to the election and one of them brought this up, but it was not the main topic. The fact is they usually get notice of what's coming down the pipe. I doubt it would have been brought up if it wasn't.

[Name removed]

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[Sub Zero]

39. Whatever

Your world must be very small. Even computer news sites cover these stories. But you can just continue to wear your rose glasses and pretend everything is fine. Don't be upset though when Rove shatters them.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

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[Sub Zero]

45. What do you want me to do?

I don't have a VCR running 24/7.

[femme.democratique]

46. VCR? Get with the times, man....

And thats BS that you can't remember the name of the "show" where you heard it.....we're waiting! *tapping foot*

[Sub Zero]

48. You think I'm lying?

If I was I would just make up a bloody name of the show. I honestly don't know.

[Name removed]

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[Sub Zero]

51. You seem to think

everything a talking head says is immediately uploaded to the net. Believe it or not - there's a ton of information in the world that isn't immediately put on the net.

As far as your post - I actually bothered to read the rules. Maybe you should too?

[Name removed]

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[Sub Zero]

56. Which have I not backed up?

All of my info is either from here, AAR, the BBV site, or MSRNC. My ONE source I don't know all the details about is MSRNC. And that one doesn't have a nice litte hyperlink available. Nice picking and choosing.

I know at least one other source that was talking about this recently - the Rhodes show. Whiterosesociety.org has the archive of it.

[femme.democratique]

57. Nothing to see here, move along.................. eom

[shraby]

52. When posting here,

we don't say "some people said" or "they say", we here at du expect a link to your assertions of "someone said"
If not a link, the show it came from, the person who said it and the channel it was on.
Some verification please for your claims.

[Sub Zero]

55. Well if you need more evidence this is in the media

I can point you to a Rhodes show from a few days ago in which this same thing was talked about. Whiterosesocity.org has an archive.

If I had more info on the talking head I would have posted it.

[in_cog_ni_to]

18. Funny. They will report that, but when was the last election fraud report

you heard on MSRNC? (other than Olbermann) It's total BULLSHIT.

[AmerDem]

26. so true

based on the corporate news medias lack of coverage I can't think for the life of me who the average everyday viewer is that recognizes the name Bev Harris. If this posters lil story is true it make you wonder why these corporate news whores pick and chose the e-voting fraud stories they like to report on.

[genieroze]

24. Sounds like a Rove to me. eom

[Kelvin Mace]

25. I don't think she is using the money in a fraudulent manner

but, I think that shoddy record keeping is really going to bite her in the ass. I am also hearing about failure to pay payroll taxes, another MAJOR no-no.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Sub Zero]

30. Indeed

The IRS and others don't play games. And considering they are under the bush regime they can come down very hard...

[Skip Intro]

27. "If" "looks like" "may have" -

*yawn*

[Sub Zero]

28. It was presented as speculation

granted that's not much, but usually they float out something to the media a little while before it happens.

[TrustingDog]

33. what evidence do you have?

""If money was solicited from hundreds/thousand of people under the guise of working on voting issues, but ended up being spent on a vacation, for example, well that's a hell of a lot of fraud charges.""

IF IF if.., for example....

I'm not sure who you are or who hired you. but if you think you're doing any good for 'the good' in wishing or putting Bev in jail while that Bushole rapes your childrens heritage...

Ya know, right now I don't care if Bev has been found out to blow up frogs as a kid (you can only get away with that if you're the Prezeldent), I'm backing her up more now than ever. she is is one that's in the spotlight, that has to deal with both the Issue of election fraud and the issue of fair weather friends.

urinate off.

[Sub Zero]

35. Hmm...

"she is is one that's in the spotlight"

And don't you think that's the problem? These people don't tolerate those who are "in the spotlight". Or do you think bushco just isn't going to do anything about increased concerns re: voting? Yea, that must be it. I'm sure they'll leave anyone bringing concerns about their crimes alone. That's what these people do, isn't it?

[Name removed]

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[Fescue4u]

37. Quite possible. Maybe likely

If you going to take on the big dogs, you MUST have your ducks in a row.

Otherwise its very easy for your enemies to destroy you by "playing the good guy". I.e. Bush (through his intermediaries), can ask the IRS to audit your books.

If those books are not in top notch shape, you have been shut down.

If half of these Internet rumors are true, Bev will be meeting Martha Stewart.

[Vinnie From Indy]

41. Why do all the Odd postings use such poor grammar?

I have noticed that the oddest posts all seem to share the same rambling style and horrendous grammar. This post is odd because of the fact that the poster obviously knows who Bev Harris is and one would think that the name of the "MSNBC talking head" mentioning her would be remembered.

I am not a fan of Bev's, but this unprovoked, vaguely attributed attack is silly and serves no purpose.

edit:changed FOX to MSNBC

[Sub Zero]

42. Bother to read much?

If it was FAUX I wouldn't have bothered. The other networks are a different story.

And unlike some people I don't watch FAUX for my "news" - and likewise I really don't care WHAT their names are.

[stellanoir]

44. talk about killing the messenger. . .

Sheesh. . .this woman allegedly lived without heat last winter because of her devotion to the cause.

I don't know her. I've been as devoted to exposing BBV issues as I could be, in my own way, for nearly 2 years.

I do imagine that she's an intense and volatile personality. Those are the sorts of personalities that draw attention to themselves, provoke lasting change, and are more often than not completely misunderstood. I've known many of them.

Let's please stop arguing about her integrity. I don't doubt it but never mind about that.

Let's instead keep our eyes on the prize, of systematically exposing and ameliorating our totally corrupted system of voting.

Our opposition would love us to fall perilously into infighting.

It's the divide and conquer ruse. Don't fall for it. Do whatever you can to expose the truth. That's far more important than petty infighting, in the grander scheme of things. IMHO

If she was indeed sloppy about her accounting then so what? What about * & Harkin, or Ken Lay or Arthur Anderson?.

The truth will inevitably come out over time, but only with our unity and persistance. Let's not sweat the small stuff. What's more important. . .Bev Harris's accounting or the manipulation of our votes?

Now carry on. . .

[TrustingDog]

47. I missed this part:

It actually makes sense that this might happen. They need this vote rigging talk to stop. If bushco wants to cause massive credibility loss to any claim of vote rigging, what better way to do it than to charge one of the most well known advocates with multiple felonies? Then whenever such concerns come up, Rove can just have the media point to it all as being the result of a giant scheme of fraud and dismiss it as such.
==
Oiy. I'm so burnt out on all this and I can't even read properly anymore.

[Imagevision]

53. I don't get it?...where's the link?...who says so?

(?)

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

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[harmonyguy]

59. What time was it? What time zone are you in?

One can understand that you might not remember the name of the show or the name of the 'talking head', but let's piece together your day and figure out the name of the show, from the time. It's really not that hard to do.

About what time did you wake up this morning?
Did you get up right away?
Did you watch TV over breakfast?
Did you watch TV at all this morning?
Did you watch any football games today?
Did you watch TV all day today?
Did you hear this before or after lunch?
Did you hear this right before making your statement here?

Ask yourself all of these questions and more, and then you'll be able to narrow down to within an hour or two, just when you heard it. From that we can all look up the name of the possible programs and check it out.

good luck!

HG

[George W. Hayduke]

62. the time

was 4:20.......

eastern standard twilight zone....

hehe.

[Garbo 2004]

61. That's just another talking head talking out of his ass, speculation

and rumor mongering without facts. It shouldn't be surprising that the BBV's finances will get some review at some point. They have reporting requirements and no doubt many people, including the IRS, will have an interest in seeing their financials.

And while I rather doubt Harris has been investing in a condo in Maui with the donations, if the records aren't meticulous or if there is anything that might appear questionable there could be problems, even without any intentional fraud or malfeasance. One would assume Harris and the Board would be well aware of that and would have taken precautions to make sure all the finances are maintained according to std accounting practices for such an organization. If she and the Board have been sloppy or lax about their accounting, well that's on them.

It's one thing to wonder why there hadn't been public disclosure of the funds at least collected (which isn't legally required) before the recent announcement, but it's another thing to allege financial fraud without evidence. The organization will have to file the appropriate reports and then the IRS and whoever can see what there is to see.

[BreakForNews]

69. Rumor mongering....

Garbo, you said "rumor mongering without facts"

Ummm.... That's what it amounts to.

Criticism of BBV's tardy disclosure of their finances is fine.

Disagreement over whether the funds should be used now or kept
to sustain BBV's onging activities is legitimate.

Disputing the financial figures BBV disclosed is cool.

Go ahead. Question the actions of BVV and Bev.
I have. And make no apologies for that.

But, alleging criminal activity better be backed with fact.

After seeing the numbers posted here (where - a little - of the money went) it certainly looks like a large sum may have been, at best, "misappropriated".

You don't have to like Bev.
After all, it's a free country.(sort-of)

But, that makes it her free country too.

How would you like if your local newspaper
ran such a headline about you - without facts.

Ever heard of libel? Didn't they outlaw lynch mobs?

Unles, your idea is to post wild allegations to
diminish the legitimate questions already asked.

Fintan Dunne, Editor
http://www.BreakForNews.com

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

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[trudyco]

68. Wow first Michael Moore says the IRS is auditing him and now

Small fry like Bev Harris are going to be harassed with Fraud? I hope they need at least some shred of evidence before they can go after her. Are they mining for liberal sponsers? Would they have a list of names of sponsers? Or are they just trying to intimidate the opposition?

I haven't heard anything here that would imply fraud. I don't think you have to spend all the money you raised within a time limit. This just sounds like harrassment. Another scary thing about the chimp.

trudyco

[Fescue4u]

70. No evidence is needed

For an audit.

Just "show us your books". And for a 501c3, they had better be in excellent shape.

thats why opposition groups MUST keep their i's dotted and their T's crossed.

Just think how easy it would be for Bush or Rove to make a call to the IRS with a "tip"?


If she isnt doing an fantastic job documenting every expenses, there will be many sleepless nights in her future.

[regularjoe]

71. To bad it doesn't work quite as easily when investigating elections. n/t

[Moderator]

72. I'm locking this thread.

Flaming is inevitable with this type of unsubstantiated claim. Unless someone can produce an MSNBC transcript to validate this claim, I think this should probably remain closed.