Wired: "Ohio Recount Stirs Trouble" 12/20

[EMunster]

Starts out encouragingly, but then comes the news that woman who gave the affidavit says her words were twisted by Greens...

Ohio Recount Stirs Trouble

02:00 AM Dec. 20, 2004 PT

As a statewide election recount got underway in Ohio last week, a Democratic congressman called on the FBI to impound vote-tabulating computers in at least one county and investigate suspicions of election tampering in the state.

(snip)

But Sherole Eaton, a Democrat and the deputy director of elections for Hocking County who wrote the affidavit, said her words have been blown out of proportion. She doesn't think Triad tampered with the votes and is a little angry that the Green Party and others have spun her words to imply that they did.


the rest:
http://www.wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,66072,00.html?tw=rss.TOP

[me b zola]

1. It's the objective facts that cannot be twisted

She may not have wanted all of this attention, but facts are facts, or is she recanting the factual info that she testified to?... I doubt it. It sounds as though she is being pressured, possibly harrassed, by those who do not want her to speak.

[gdub]

2. From the article, it sounds like the Greens are hyping conspiracy angle

Which may or may not be true. The Wired piece seems balanced in it's reporting.

My own objective in all this is to get to the truth. If the Greens are engaging in "conspiracy hype" by jumping to conclusions and issuing pre-mature and inflammtory press releases without accurately reporting the facts, that's a real concern for me.

[shraby]

3. The lady signed an affidavit

attesting to the fact that the man was messing with the tabulator...and it was in her own words.
It sounds as if pressure is being applied to her and not from the Greens.

[henslee]

4. Hey, if this is what it takes to get the story out there, fine.

[mirandapriestly]

61. agreed............................n/t

[gdub]

5. I am not an appeaser, however...

What if the Greens did what the Wired piece suggests? I.e., rushed the story out and then the affadavit came later in order to set the facts straight.

Is there anyone out there with personal knowledge of the chronology?

The reason that I ask this "devil's advocate" question is it seems to me that there is a lot of "grand standing" out there. Look at Bev Harris or Wayne Madsen. Arguably Clint Curtis as well. The individual actors in all this must be examined for their motivations if we are to know the true story.

Part of me wants to prove fraud because I do not like George Bush and I believe he represents a dangerous minority of power-hungry fascists. However, as with Bush's war in Iraq, what do we give up if we let individuals with personal agendas distort the truth in an effort to make the ends justify the means?

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

7. Grandstanding?

In this climate of obscuration, some of that is needed, just to kick in the doors a bit.Besides, were the tables turned, the repuke TV demagogues and the 101st Fighting Keyboards(RW Bloggers) would be in full cry, to an extent that would make what is happening now, on the left, look like a bridge game.

[Doctor O]

27. I have read and listening to many of Curtis statement

and interviews, and the more I listen, the more I question Curtis. He gives no specific information, just generalized terms.
On Levine's show yesterday, he kept up with the generalized terms. I believe that software analysts and architects could debunk him and his claims fairly easily.
He also stated that he had brought this to the attention of many people over the past three and half years, and from his own statements most of those officials he brought this to did not find him credible, except for one FBI agent (who has died since) investigated and found proof. Now that person is no longer around and can not attest to what he found. If Curtis was really had some proof, it seems to me he would have brought it to the attention of a democratic official who would have continued the investigation.
Curtis also made claims that Fenney shared much information with him about other events and happenings within FL that revolved around bidding and contracts. I find it hard to believe that any official would share this much information with a programmer.
Now having said all this, is tampering with machines and software possible? Certainly, but not as simply as Curtis is making it seem. It would involve more than one simple prop gram that he wrote. It would have to be a different program for the different types of voting systems, and would also require different programming for each county and maybe even each precinct due to the fact that the positions on ballots were changed from precinct to precinct.

[BreakForNews]

49. Laughable Parody

You got it. I concurr.

Clinton Curtis' comments are a laughable parody, loosely based on a
non-nerd public perception of what a slick progammer would be
expected to say.

Whenever there's a danger of wandering into specific detail,
Curtis begins to waffle expansively in vague generalizations.

It greatly undermines his cred with people who code.

Real coders are like painters or plumbers.
You just can't stop them from getting into technical details.

Curtis never has.

Fintan Dunne, Editor
http://www.BreakForNews.com

[eomer]

67. Curtis has reconstructed his prototype and posted it.

That emcompasses all the technical details of his claim.

What technical details has he not gotten into to?

[Chi]

68. Heya eomer 8)

Where can I take a look at what Curtis has posted.

Thanx in Advance.

[roseBudd]

29. I believe the BoE employee is computer illiterate and therefore she

does not realize the implications of what the Triad employee was doing.

I think she was bothered by the suggestion that the vote tallys should be posted on the wall, but more trusting as to what went on with the hardware.

[Lerkfish]

56. only "part of you" wants to prove fraud? lemme get this straight...

Here's the deal: if there was fraud, only part of you wants it proven, because you're afraid of a power-hungry facsists....but you're MORE afraid that the greens might have distorted the "truth"?

Which is more damaging to the country? A spurious charge by the greens that can be investigated, but which harms no one if untrue...or a massive conspiracy by fascists to overtake the country against its will?

Why do you even consider those in the same ballpark, and EVEN MORE bizarre, why do you consider the greens a more dangerous entity?

[righteous1]

11. That's not exactly right,

The article states that the Green party contacted her prior to the recount and asked her about anyone who had come in contact with the votes, machines etc. She told them of everyone including the Triad man. When she started hearing about the inflated claims by the Greens and others concerning this matter, she wrote an affidavit to "set the record straight"

[mod mom]

19. Has she been threatened?

Considering the stories coming out of Greene county and elsewhere, I think it's a legitmate concern. I would be a little nervous if I were her.

[righteous1]

10. As it should be for all of us

the truth is what we are after

[rehema]

20. Perhaps you need to read the Green Party's Press Release

The GP press release stated:
Green Party presidential candidate David Cobb told members of the House Judiciary Committee yesterday about an Ohio Board of Elections employee who witnessed deliberate tampering with county voting machines.

The revelation came as part of Cobb's testimony in a forum convened by Representative John Conyers, the ranking Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee. The committee members are examining reports of voter suppression and intimidation and other irregularities that occurred in the Ohio 2004 presidential election.

Cobb's report of rigged voting machines drew an instantaneous response from Conyers who directed his staff to immediately investigate the situation. "This allegation is just the tip of the iceberg," said Cobb.

Now where in this press release did they do any hyping?

[righteous1]

21. "Deliberate tampering" were Cobb's words

not Eatons

[KaliTracy]

6. the affidavit is in her own words

paraphasing, she says in it she didn't want to believe anything was wrong when he first came, which is why she allowed him to do what he did -- but that the more she thought about it, she decided to come forward.

I'm not sure how putting her experience on the "record" could be twisted by the greens -- and it certainly didn't stop other Triad or Diebold employees from going to other county re-counts and doing similar "adjustments" --

I'm posting from an immediate reaction, here, I didn't read the wired article. I wonder, though if there hasn't been some pressure -- they threw her name out there pretty quickly...

[Clark2008]

8. Is there any way to contact her?

And I don't mean to pressure her in our direction - I mean to offer her comfort.
We need to let her know that there ARE THOUSANDS of people who would protect her, in a sense. That we are out here watching to make sure she remains "safe" from the cabal that may be pressuring her to change her story based on real or perceived threats?

Just wondering.

[mirrera]

9. Vote tampering is not what she said...

It sounds like what she is objecting to is the Greens claiming there was vote tampering, which I have not heard them do, and suspect it is the media reporting that the Greens are saying that. Her statement says that the machines were tampered with, and that the tech. wanted to post numbers for election workers to use after a count. That is all she said. That is all we know. It is kind of like when Clint Curtis said he designed a PROTOTYPE, and everyone jumped all over his story because the program wasn't very realistic, as designed. He NEVER said it was used. The story was important because Feeny would have to explain why he asked for it and what he did with it. The story was important because it once again showcased how easy and possible it is to write a program. The story almost got lost because everyone jumped to conclusions based on quick reading. Lets not let the same thing happen here. She is not withdrawing her statement, so lets NOT jump to the conclusion that she is being "silenced". She is a woman who knows nothing about computers. She knows Triad because they run the machines for them on elections. That right there is worthy of a story as well. Not only does she NOT deny her statements, she actually reaffirmed that she heard the word "patch" when Triad said she must have mis-heard it. She says she couldn't have mis-heard it because she doesn't even know what it means. The only thing she doesn't want said in her name is that Triad tampered with the vote. She is right, It is too soon to say that. Is it suspicious? To us, yes.To her? No, she has probably not even considered fraud as possible, she is just doing her job. Is it worthy of investigation? Of course.

[Demit]

12. Good analysis! Part of the problem is the Wired story conflates what

the Green Party has said with what unnamed "voting activists" have said. The Greens refer, in this incident, only to "tampering". Which is pretty much what Ms. Eaton reports happened--that the Triad tech came in and fiddled with the computer. Deliberately. Why is another matter.

A lot of this reminds me of that kid's game, "Whisper down the lane." People paraphrase what others are saying instead of quoting directly, and this leads yet others to faulty conclusions. One thing I really appreciate about this board is that attribution is required--links so that everyone can go see for themselves what was really said, and in what context.

[righteous1]

13. Read the article

It says Ms Eaton in her own words "doesn't think TRIAD tampered with the votes".

[mirrera]

16. But she never said that they did.

She never claimed that they tampered with the vote. She stated that they tampered with the computer, and doesn't want her words twisted. That is not the same as what was starting to be implicated here...That she was being silenced. She has not denied her statement, which was the initial scare I had when I started to read this thread. She sounds like a nice lady who didn't like the fact that he offered numbers on the wall as a sort of cheat. She just doesn't connect the dots to the computer itself. Thus she doesn't think the votes were tampered with. They are still in the closet with rubber bands around them. The opportunity for computer fraud is clear to us, but my mom wouldn't have a clue. She'd offer them coffee while they fixed the machine.

[righteous1]

17. Personally I look at what people say and the context surrounding

their statements. It is very difficult for me to intuitively devine what she "thought" at the time. All I know is She told the Greens what they wanted to know and that her statements were being thrown around and "inflated" then she signed an affidavit so that her statements could no longer be misrepresented. This is a far cry from what has been reported that she saw Eaton employees "tampering" with the equipment and vote (a term she never used) and signed an affidavit for the Greens stating that. The only reason she signed the affidavit was to protect herself and the prevent anything she said from being misrepresented and ot taken out of context

[genieroze]

14. She reported what she knew, but anybody with average computer

experience knows that you don't store data in a battery. That data can't be lost by replacing a dead battery. What about the other machines that that employee was visiting, did they have bad batteries too? Golly gee, didn't they check those machines before the vote? I smell RW horse crap.

[GregD]

40. you don't store data in a battery

You can (and do), however, lose the settings for the hard drive identification if the battery chokes. And on a 14-yo Dell, who knows what drive is in there. I can well imagine needing to call and get the "drive type" number for CMOS setting when you reboot.

However, the piece that is missing from Kim's and the NY Times story, is the cheat Sheet. I want to know more about that aspect of the story and why it is disregarded.

[John Q. Citizen]

38. well said, mirrera. n/t

[Pacifist Patriot]

59. Thank you for making this point.

[mirandapriestly]

62. Good point. I think that is what is going on /eom

[Senator]

15. Wired is lying about the Greens "charges"

The article used the phrase "compelling evidence" in a context that makes it sound like the Greeens were talking about Eaton specifically.

But if you follow the link that the phrase takes you to -- the Greens press release -- it's clear that the Greens spokesman is speaking in general terms.

Just more lazy, incompetent reporting.

Here's the http://www.wired.com/news/feedback/mail/1,2330,0-1246-66072,00.html">the feedback page for the article. For those who wish to set them straight.

_____
www.thedeanpeople.org

[insane_cratic_gal]

18. 14 year old Dell?

but are there any 14 year old "dell" machines?

14. When he arrived to examine the machine, a 14-year-old Dell PC, the computer wouldn't boot up.

Internal Battery would or Cmos would of given you some clues to it's frying out. Unable to keep time correctly.

If all voting equipment ect is pre-checked before an election as it's suppose to be. Don't you believe this would of been discovered?

Just some oddites, in the story. IBM that is 14 years old .. Yes but Dell?

i'm unsure of how the Cmos relates to any information about the votes, so a patch wouldn't be nessacry.

CMOS RAM is to store information your computer needs when it boots up, such as hard disk types,(NOT hard drive data!) keyboard and display type, chip set, and even the time and date.

In that respect with a cmos dying, it would if given some keyboard errors, mouse display, or hardrive errors, potentially.

Just my opinion but it sounds fishy to me.

[EMunster]

22. Good question. Thought the dell sounded a little odd. I wonder

if anyone else could verify the county switch as well. The package is wrapped a little too neat here.

[insane_cratic_gal]

24. I did a little research

Dell did make pc's in 1984

but if the pc is 14 yrs old, that of course puts the pc date at 1990

Dell was in a law suit with texas instruments

Texas Instruments sues Dell for patent infringement. Dell countersues, accusing Texas Instruments of fraud and unfair competition. <548.368>

time line:

1989 Company introduces its first notebook computer
1990 Manufacturing center in Limerick, Ireland, opened to serve European, Middle Eastern and African markets
1992 Dell included for first time among Fortune 500 roster of world's largest companies
1993 Dell joins ranks of the top-five computer system makers worldwide Subsidiaries in Australia and Japan are company's first entries into Asia-Pacific region

http://burks.brighton.ac.uk/burks/pcinfo/hardware/comphist/comp1990.htm

She is either mistaken about the date of the pc, being 14 years old.

It's difficult to fathom Dell would been able to generate those types of contracts 6 years after opening.

[genieroze]

25. That's interesrting. eom

[righteous1]

26. What am I missing? Nothing i can find would preclude Dell making

computers in 1990

[insane_cratic_gal]

30. Nothing really

Just trying to conclude to the facts

It is possible that in 1990 and I did find a few machines made. Dell 486 (pizza box machine)

I've been reading this 92 page report from Roy Saltman, this report was given in 1986.

It's basically a standard of the future elections: What min, Needs to be done with upcoming technology. In it he concludes, as the tech gets better all BOE should implement the newest software for the sake of security.
He goes on to describe several things the most important: No one shall impede upon the election process, by handling or removing any E-Prom, tampering, removing, interchange with another eprom (mem) containing incorrect data.
To do so undermines the voters confidence in the integrity of the voting system.

[Ellipsis]

39. wow! now that is a good find. ... the writing is on the wall!

I think I see your concern. I have never read this before. I'll swear to that. It establishes a concern in 1986. I am curious what prompted his motivation it affirms things.

Again... computer years are like dog years, The industry was new. People were writing biz plans on backs of napkins. It wasn't just a commercial, (if you remember it.)

This was pre dot.com boom. Exponential increase at the time not uncommon. Mr Dell was one of many smaller players. (I am sure he would be approachable on this.) He was smarter. Margins at the time were huge on personal computers. and the installed base was minimal, computers were slow, the the refresh rate was lhigh. Moore's law was fresh. It was not like today. with every new computer model came better productivity. It was easy to cost justify.


Compare it to the DVD player revolution. It didn't take long when it took. Once costs came down.

But I agree with Rosebud: The writing is on the wall.

The combination of the two, calls a hand count, at the very least in that county.

Really,really, good find.


k

[insane_cratic_gal]

41. Ray Saltman just emailed me back

Much to my surprise. I'm trying to come up with informative questions regarding his opinion about the recent elections.

How much of his recommendations had been placed into policy. I wish I could give him the due respect he deserves, but perhaps we have some bloggers who would publish any of his opinion on the matter? Or his recommendations.

It's just my opinion but this man needs to be facing congress with a written address to why we need election reform on a federal level not just state.

Any ideas or evidence you wish me to submit to him besides this wired article? and the affidavit.?

[Ellipsis]

42. ask Alizaryn, she is plugged in, n/t

[Chi]

23. Just some facts

Not trying to discredit anyone.
I just saw a question and went to find the answer 8-/

'Dell was founded in 1984 by Michael Dell, the computer industry's longest-tenured chief executive officer, on a simple concept: that by selling computer systems directly to customers, Dell could best understand their needs and efficiently provide the most effective computing solutions to meet those needs.'

http://www1.us.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/corp
/background/en/facts?c=us&l=en&s=corp&~section=000&~ck=mn

[genieroze]

28. Here are some more facts, Dell gave 77% of it's contributions to pubs. eom

[Chi]

66. If that was for my benefit, check post 65 8) N/T

[blueatheart]

32. said he took pc apart only to check drive parameters...

yet he also had to take it apart to change the battery. Why so much emphasis on taking it apart to check parameters.

Also I do not believe ( i could be wrong ) that cmos batteries are rechargeable. He did not bring any tools yet just happened to have a cmos battery from a 14 yr old system on hand. Most of the pcs back then had barrel like batteries not like the dime type they use today. Often the batteries were soldered on back then.


Anyone have experience with Dells from that era?

[Boredtodeath]

35. That's simple, actually

PCs that old don't keep the hard drive data in memory with autodetect. It wasn't until about '95 that autodetect was a part of the motherboard CMOS.

Before that time, the hard drive configuration - heads, landing zone, sectors and tracks - were put on a label on the top of the hard drive. And you had to know that information to install a hard drive in CMOS on those old computers.

And, yes, 1984 is the right time for Dell and their retail stores in malls selling computers directly to consumers. Compaq was first to do this to compete with the IBM PC (unless you count RadioShack's TRS80s as the first). By 1984, home use desktop computers were an exploding retail business. IBM responded by opening their own retail outlets as well because they were losing business to these organizations with a mail order only approach.

[blueatheart]

36. I did not say he did not need to check the drive..

I know about the auto detect, my point was why the emphasis on taking it apart for parameters when he had to take it apart anyways to get to the battery.

"He said Barbian took the case off the computer to identify the hard drive's make and model."

[Boredtodeath]

37. Just trying to throw some history into the discussion

and here's some more.....

It was 84/85 when the Director of IBM's PC division was killed in the plane crash in Texas. Because he was the driving force behind the PC division, IBM switched to the PS2.

IBM always cursed the day they built and marketed the open architecture PC because that was what spawned the Compaq/Dell/Gateway clone market. Those early companies all began as marketers of add-ons to the originial PC and expanded to the box itself. IBM never planned on or strategized for that competition.

With the PS2, IBM tried to close the barn door. Their install base told them to pound sand and bought the competitor's machines which were still open architecture.

[Zan_of_Texas]

64. 1984 is the right time for Dell and their retail stores in malls ???

When did Dell have retail stores in malls -- I thought their whole model was to sell direct?

[Chi]

65. Stats on a 14 year old Dell

This might interest some.
====================
Battery
3-V round lithium
Rayovac BR2325 or equivalent
=======================
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/
dta/v24t/00000001.htm
(This page has all the main specs on the system.)

Here is a picture of the 'watch battery' that takes approx. 1 min. to change (maybe 5 min.'s if the cover is a bugger to get back on).
http://shopping.netledger.com/
s.nl?c=ACCT84789&sc=2&search=BR2325
-
I had to do this with my AST Advantage Plus (486 DX2 66) that I bought in 1990.
Gathering the hard drive data takes about 1 min as well considering it is written write on the face of the hard drive.
If he had the cover off for more than 10 min.'s he's lying or incompetent.

(Edited to fix link)

[sabra]

31. Eaton has had a long good relationship with Triad

She is giving them the benefit of the doubt. However there is still some doubt, as she did come forward and made this thing public. I think here response is a mixture of her good working history with Triad, and possible pressure from other sources.

Never the less, the fact that an employee was accessing the tabulator unsupervised, demands an investigation and reprocussions...

[McCamy Taylor]

33. her life is probably easier now, but the affidavit is still there

[corbett]

34. http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=4816

All we Kerry supporters want is the truth! I bet that each and every Ohio Supervisor Of Elections is under ENORMOUS pressure to keep the recount and challenges quiet. Regardless of that supervisor's complaint(s) against the Greens, read this:

http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=4816

The KKKarl Rove fraud dike is leaking!

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[zann725]

44. If you ACTUALLY read this article, it's the ARTICLE that's misleading.

Nothing essentially changed in Eaton's statement. And the activities on Triad are still illegal tampering with the machine.

The article we are looking at doesn't specify AP source, or where it came from except "hotwire." I could be wrong, but this looks like a misinformation "plant"...possibly by the FBI or Freepers who are monitoring the "problem" from afar, without any grasp of the true facts.

[Pierre de Fermat]

54. It hasn't been determined that any...

...'tampering' was illegal.

[Chi]

63. I'd say this tampering is illegal.....wouldn't you?

"He advised Lisa and I on how to post a "cheat sheet" on the wall so that only the board members and staff would know about it and and what the codes meant so the count would come out perfect and we wouldn't have to do a full hand recount of the county. He left about 5:00 PM."

I'd say this tampering is illegal.....wouldn't you?

[zimba]

45. I found the article to be well written, and being a Green

I also think that it is true that the press release by the Green Party on 12/14, which used the term "rigged" in connection to Eatons story, would be a concern to her. Its important that we remember that all are innocent until proven guilty. However, Cobb's testimony to Conyer's only stated that which Eaton had said, and never used the term tampering or rigged. These were only added in the press release.

The bottom line is that the terms tampering and rigged shouldnt have been stated as if they were fact. Possible tampering, yes, but since the word tampering implies doing something unethical, flat out tampering shouldnt be implied unless its proveable.

Its important to use terms like "alleged" or "possible" when refering to unproven accusations.

On Edit: What can be stated for fact of course is that it is unethical to have access to a voting machine without following protocol, and this may be a violation of Ohio law.

[The Flaming Red Head]

53. We execute people in this country with less evidence than this

If that machine were a dead pregnant white woman we'd be talking lethal injection for that technician.

[mdb]

46. How will the court look at this?

Will the plaintiffs need to show proof of tampering?

Someone posted (another topic subject) saying they had election officials present. But were observers from each party there? Maybe someone can clarify if the teams were present for this instance.

In the affidavit they also raise this issue. The wording though appears to be for other counties. Here is this section.

§ 3505.32
Moreover, bringing in Triad officials into other Ohio Counties would also appear to violate Ohio Revised Code § 3505.32, which provides that during a period of official canvassing, all interaction with ballots must be “in the presence of all of the members of the board and any other persons who are entitled to witness the official canvass,” given that last Friday, the Ohio Secretary of State has issued orders to the effect that election officials are to treat all election materials as if they were in a period of canvassing .and that "Teams of one Democrat and one Republican must be present with ballots at all times of processing."

[mdb]

47. Actually... I just finished reading the article and

what I was saying seems to be true from this article. That observers need to be present.

Doug Jones, Iowa's chief examiner of voting equipment and a computer scientist at the University of Iowa who has been a leading critic of electronic voting machines, said the matter was less likely a case of election tampering than poor election procedures and oversight. But he added that even if no one tampered with votes, the fact that someone had unsupervised access to tabulating equipment before the recount was a breach of security procedures and might even violate Ohio election law.

"The tabulating room should be viewed as a secure computer systems site where nobody goes in there unsupervised, but the affidavit suggests there was no supervision in the tabulating room," Jones said. He said that suspicions of tampering are just as destructive to the integrity of an election as actual tampering and laws prohibiting unsupervised access to voting equipment should be enforced.

[understandinglife]

55. Precisely. This is a key aspect of the story and of the entire...

...mess. We have no way of knowing what happened and that is the root reason why the election of 2004 is simply not valid.

We have no way of knowing what happened in any central tabulating center, in any county, in every State.

We have no election.

Add to that lack of knowledge what was done, in violation of civil and voters rights, and we have no election and we have a major threat to our Constitution.

And, as to whatever Ms Eaton may now be saying -- I think she has probably much to fear and hopefully she is being well protected.

Peace.

[garybeck]

48. personally I agree with Eaton

her remarks in their own right are being blown out of proportion.

It is feasible that the people at Triad are idiots and they sent technicians out to change the machines so that they only report presidential votes. the guy who came to her precinct might just be a total idiot and thought that most people don't want to do a hand recount, just because it's a pain in the ass, so he suggested a way to avoid it.

Her remarks are only INCREDIBLE if it is shown that other Triad employees suggested the cheat sheet to other precincts and counties. Or if someone at Triad told the employees to suggest cheat sheets.

They already have their story, that they had to calibrate the machines to only count presidential votes.

We need to be checking on this--

Is it really Ohio law that recounts can only recount the race in question? Is it true that they were complying with OHio law by recalibrating the machines?

If it's true, the story unfortunately makes sense.

[tandem5]

50. how do you over spin "cheat sheets"?!?! nt

[mdb]

57. True.

I don't know what she is actually saying now (from the article) but she can get on stand and deny everything she ever said about this and this would overrule anything else. The thing is this case can go on with or without her. We all know Triad was there and believed to be unsupervised.

[garybeck]

58. it's about the "intent"

was it part of a vast conspiracy to fix the recount?

or was it a stupid idea of a stupid technician who just thought that everyone would rather not do a recount because it's a pain in the arse?

If he's the only one that suggested a cheat sheet, there's just not too much to this story. The one precinct could not affect the entire state.

We need evidence of systematic fraud, from higher levels. We'd need to see the same sort of thing in other precincts and other counties. We'd need to find out who told them to suggest cheat sheets. Then we're getting somewhere.

Until then this guy is just an idiot who would get a slap on the wrist at best for what he did.

[tandem5]

60. yeah I know what you mean...

and they would counter with something like that - something thats very illegal, but not anywhere near as bad as the original charge.

[The Flaming Red Head]

51. So, it still sounds like they tampered with it! nt

[Pierre de Fermat]

52. You really didn't need to wait for her to say so.

Anyone reading the affidavits posted by William Pitt last week could see that they are mutually contradictory. I assumed that there must be some intervening testimony from someone that would explain how the Green attorney could so definitively claim fraud occurred in her affidavit when the county election worker - Sherole Eaton - said nothing in her affidavit that would indicate fraud.