OK...WHY THE FILING IS IMPORTANT

[WilliamPitt]

I will have a link for all this including analysis and comment from Bonifaz. But for the moment, here is a portion of what will come once the techs have whacked the page. This is why it is important:

===

The purpose of the motions is twofold: A) To preserve all ballots and voting machines pertaining to the Yost matter for investigation and analysis; and B) To make available for sworn deposition testimony a technician for Traid Systems, the company that produced and maintained many of the voting machines used in the Ohio election. The technician has been accused of tampering with the recount process in Hocking County, Ohio, though other counties are believed to have also been involved. Any officers of Triad Systems who have information pertaining to said tampering are likewise subject to subpoena for sworn deposition testimony.

If the judge in this case allows these motions, and these individuals are served with subpoenas for deposition, the information disclosed under oath could have a major effect on the case. Likewise, judicial approval of these motions will open the door to forensic analysis of both the ballots cast and the machines they were counted on. If tampering took place, such an analysis would reveal it.

===

Sworn.

Deposition.

Testimony.

Link coming shortly.

[MissBrooks]

1. Is it in TIME?

What does it mean - will Kerry be inaugurated? or is this just a slap on the wrist?

[cyberpj]

2. one step at a time PLEASE

let's just get the FRAUD proven!

[WilliamPitt]

3. Don't bother

Some people are in the wrong forum and refuse to leave. I keep directing them to the proper place:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=132

...but they just refuse to go.

[MissBrooks]

19. I'm not allowed to ask questions?

You get our hopes up and then we aren't allowed to ask questions about it?

Whatever,...

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WilliamPitt]

56. I steal my best lines from Homer Simpson

:)

[demwing]

60. Is it plagiarism to steal from a fictional character?

Oh who cares, I'm taking my walnuts and leaving in a snit.

No nuts for you. You blew it. Big Time.

[WilliamPitt]

61. I'll have to look up the case law

Bring back my nuts.

[demwing]

Thanks for not taking it too personally

Just a little ribbing. I thought you could handle it, and I'm glad to see you could.

peace

[demwing]

64. Delete

please

[RC]

83. A Snit? How many wheels that got?

How big is it? How many people does it hold? Does it get good mileage?

[tavalon]

115. Snits always get good mileage.

At least that's been my experience. :)

[MissBrooks]

72. Walnuts?

I thought Chestnuts were more festive.

[Name removed]

90. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Eloriel]

65. No, NOT the same thing here

And in fact, it didn't work all that well in the astrology and alt health GROUP -- it's a GROUP, not an open discussion forum. You're supposed to accept the Mission of the GRoup or not post. There's nothing of that sort here in this forum.

[demwing]

71. How about this -

The name of this forum is "2004 Election Results and Discussion."

What part of Miss Brook's post doesn't comply? She asked a direct question regarding the outcome of the 2004 election, then was teased and taunted, and even had her opinion pooped upon.

Not very friendly.

No, not very friendly at all :(

[MissBrooks]

74. Demwing, Thank you

I am just amazed at how nasty this board is when you ask a question or disagree.

All week long, we kept hearing that Kerry was going to UnConcede and he was going to fight back.

Now we are hearing that nothing of the sort is happening - maybe some papers are being filed. That's it.

Now, No one expects the election outcome to change at all. Well that wasn't the story a week ago.

Why do we let this guy (yes you, Pitt) get our hopes up and then not deliver?
He has done nothing except report what you can find on Google News. I put him in the same category as Bev Harris.

Why should we treat him like he's someone special? What did he do for you/us?


.

[Sydnie]

80. I could have missed it but I don't recall Will EVER saying that JK was

going to unconcede. He merely said that he was joining the fight, which he is by filing this today.

I believe (again, I could be mistaken) that is was Breakfornews that started the unconcede thread.

Either you need to keep your reporters straight -- or I do. I know it wasn't Will though.

[WilliamPitt]

81. That was BreakForNews

[johnaries]

93. But, wasn't the basic gist of the Unconcede threads...

about the fact that Kerry didn't NEED to "Unconcede"? And, actually, this filing means that Kerry IS in the fight! If you read Will's and others' analyzes you'll see that this filing is not as insignificant as it seems just reading it.

[buddysmellgood]

94. If you're so disgusted with the quality of his reporting, why do you lurk?

I appreciate Pitt's efforts to spread the word. I appreciate not having to google everywhere. I know that Pitt is on top of this. I like the fact that he is chain smoking and pacing about his flat, pulling out his hair as he waits for confirmation of facts. It means I can worry less because I know he is on the case.
I have a suggestion for you. YOU TRY IT. Stop whining and see if you can do better.

[peacetalksforall]

111. Only posters postulated (or wishfully assumed) that Kerry was

going to unconcede. You appear to be out to exoriate Pitt. So it appears that you are claiming that he said that. I don't think so. I don't think that he even implied that. I think he only said that something was going to be filed.

Are you a jumper?

[tavalon]

116. I don't believe Will ever said that Kerry would unconcede

I think that was conjecture on the part of people posting on his threads. So, as far as getting your hopes up, you'd best look in the mirror for the person to blame. Everyone needs to take their expectations down a notch.

[WilliamPitt]

123. Um...I never ever ever ever EVER said he would unconcede

If you go look at the first thread that came up on that, I have two posts in there asking if the report was based more on wishes than on facts. The report came from BreakForNews, not me.

So I guess the lesson here is that if you are going to criticize someone, make sure you kinda sorta know what you're talking about, or something. Maybe.

The stuff I've reported on has come straight out of a Federal courthouse docket list. The news I've been reporting is what it is, and you can take it for whatever you think it is worth on the merits, but I have delivered exactly as I said I would.

But then again, you'd kinda sorta hafta know what you're talking about, or something. Maybe.

P.S. What I reported tonight wasn't on Google news until I put it there.

[troubleinwinter]

126. Most of the "unconceed" stuff was ONE OPINION article

repeated over and over and over in new thread titles. If you had read the article, you would have seen that it was someone's OPINION about "laying the groundwork".

Mr. Pitt is a journalist and author. If you go back and READ what he has written, he has reported precicely accurately.

"All week long, we kept hearing..." This is a message board. It is your own responsibility to question and research to find out the difference between what is just talk and speculation, and what is reliable.

[bunny planet]

87. You go Will.

Well said.

[demwing]

138. You go Bunny!

Well said!

Oh wait...

never mind.

[MissBrooks]

52. deleted

[demwing]

57. Yes Miss Brooks, I was kidding

Sorry that it was difficult to determine the direction of my sarcasm.

My Bad ;)

[bitchkitty]

105. Don't forget -

be sure and ask a sarcastic question like, "Is it in TIME" as if Time Warner were anything but part of the corporate whore media.

[mirandapriestly]

112. Exactly!! I thought that remark was just plain nasty

if people don't like it, why read it? Some want others to give them constant instant gratification.

[kc.ink]

125. Just follow the damned links, read the info and don't interject anything

into it. For God's sake, we are all on pins and needles. . . . . what, you think these guys have crystals BALLS or something???

Wining ANY battle requires strategy.

[kc.ink]

128. sorry for attack, upset with negativism in here. A VERY good link to check

http://www.breakfornews.com/

Kerry Preparing Grounds to Unconcede
listen, it is very good information.

[malatesta1137]

139. your question in fact

matters ten thousand times more than all this investigation of fraud BULLSHIT.

With Bush starting his second term, I want Kerry and all of his incompetent clowns, and that includes bloggers, to shove these filings, letters, hearings and protest marches up their useless behinds.

As if we needed even more proof that this election was stolen! Sick of all this 'protection of evidence' talk.

The evidence doesn't need to be protected, it needs to be EXPOSED in a press conference on CNN.

[teddyk23]

22. will, come on

These folks have wonderful insights for this or any other forum....

for me to poop on.

[WilliamPitt]

25. *snarf*

[aquart]

42. I was hoping for a picture of the cat.

[WilliamPitt]

44. That *is* the cat

You can see why I have problems.

[seito]

89. lol n/t

[bunny planet]

92. LOL

[bunny planet]

32. subtle.

[MissBrooks]

17. If we prove fraud in May - it doesn't matter.

Right?
One step at a time, my butt.

We have 24 days to throw this election the other way. Everyone keeps saying, be patient. WHY!? We don't have enuf time to be patient!

Kerry is obviously not bringing this to the media. No one is screaming for the rafters - except Tell and DU.

The rest of the world has moved on.

[Spazito]

24. Ummmm, no, the rest of the world has not...

unlike the US media, the rest of the world has been keeping up with the infamous 'anomalies, glitches', etc, that occurred on Nov 2nd and believe bush stole the US citizens' right to a democratic election. I know there are SOME who would wish this issue to die and happily watch bush be inaugurated but they wouldn't be found on DU, which stands for Democratic Underground last time I checked.

[AllyCat]

43. Man! It's good to hear that someone in the world is watching!

I was beginning to think no one was reporting this anywhere except KO and this board.

[cyberpj]

29. wouldn't impeachment be ok?

unfortunately most of the time they're making the timetable for our complaints --- but come on....

this is no mere blow job.

I know they tend to do things so "the president knew nothing about this" but I'm not sure even that would help if we can show this administration rigged a presidential election.

Oh God, I hope.

[MissBrooks]

50. Sure, we impeach Bush

and Cheney is President.

[LittleClarkie]

78. What if they're not trying to throw the election the other way

What if they are trying to prove the fraud? What if they are trying to prove just how broke the vote is, just how hackable the vote is?

I see this as a case for election reform. The more evidence we have that election reform is needed, the more likely we are to get it. We want people good and pissed about what happened, enough to fight for the reform.

It would also be nice to get the word "MANDATE" out of George W. Bush's mouth. Some nice Watergate action would be fine too, but I won't count my chickens.

Too late my butt. It sure as hell WILL matter. If I can't have John Kerry, I damned well want to make sure I am never deprived of the candidate who won ever, EVER again. Fix the vote!!

Really folks, I think that trying to flip the election at this point would be insane without public opinion tilted so far in Kerry's direction and so far away from Bush that such a change would be accepted without civil war. Unless we find some pretty severe evidence that even the spin machine can't spin, we're likely stuck with the Shrubbery.

Some of you might want civil war, but your champion is not a radical. He is and always has been a moderate. Even in 1971, he was the moderating voice. When VVAW got too radical for him, he opted out. He will not destabilize the country at war.

You're going to war with the champion you have, not the champion you might want.

(quoting Rummy again -- aw lordy, I need some help!)

[crispini]

82. Isn't awful how adaptable that Rummy quote is?

I've found myself using it several times lately, in different contexts. it makes people look at me oddly...

[LittleClarkie]

110. The best adaptation so far came from the neocons themselves

Bill Kristol turned it on Rummy, saying we go to war with the Def. Sec. we have, not the one we want or need.

Rummy's days are numbered if the neocon intelligencia is turning on him too.

[tavalon]

119. Oh my, that Rummy quote is so useful in its many derivations!

You're going to war with the champion you have, not the champion you might want.


ROFLMAO

[lonestarnot]

99. Move on smoove on sista; you got ya nerve a pesterin' round wit people..

you just back off here you hear... sisbrooks... you paperpeddlin...hav'n hairy crack-up.:evilgrin:

[tavalon]

117. And you just hit the crux of this but

not the way you might think. No, short of a major miracle (and I for one am grateful for just the small miracles like Kerry filing), the inauguration of Chimpy will happen. Followed by the slow but, ever so sweet destruction of his whole administration a la Nixon. Welcome to history redo.

Really, if you are seeing what's going on as "the thing that will get Kerry into the White House" you're probably setting yourself up for a major, major disappointment.

Could this have worked out differently if Kerry hadn't rolled on November 3rd? Unfortunately, we'll never know. So, now we get to play with the cards we were dealt. We need to be very good players because the cards are only moderately good. Tenacity, perserverance not wild prognosticative hope are what will get us there. "There" being the end to this fascist regime followed by many, many years of painful healing. Sounds fun, eh?

[lizzieforkerry]

129. Well, we haven't moved on in Warren County, Ohio

In fact we could really use some more help, can we expect you here tomorrow?

[troubleinwinter]

4. Try to follow along.

[NMDemDist2]

6. I don't see this as overturning the election, but if we don't clean up the

process the NeoCons will be in power forever

JK et al need to make sure the votes are verifiable and traceable in the future

or America is lost......

[Clark2008]

9. I don't know if that's the goal

The goal is to protect democracy.

As much as I'd like to see the election flip to Kerry so he's inaugurated on Jan. 20, I'd much rather see the neo-con wing of the Republican Party go down in the flames of public opinion (and legal recourse) so we don't have to deal with them ever again.

It's about counting the vote. It's about allowing people to vote. It's about democracy.

[cyberpj]

13. U Got it!

re: "I'd much rather see the neo-con wing of the Republican Party go down in the flames of public opinion (and legal recourse) so we don't have to deal with them ever again."

YEAH! THAT'S THE TICKET!

[oldtime dfl_er]

28. well said!!!

[BarbinMD]

5. Thanks for the update

I've been running back and forth here all day (but still only smoking one cigarette at a time ;)). Do you know if the analysis and comment will be posted tonight or tomorrow?

[WilliamPitt]

7. 15 minutes, give or take

[BarbinMD]

16. Danke n/t

[Scout1071]

21. Waiting with breathless anticipation.....

At least for another 20 min or so. Then it's off to "Meet the Fockers."

[Alizaryn]

8. Do you have an opinion as to whether these motions will

be allowed?

[cyberpj]

10. Thanks Will -

The short explanation and the fact that it's actually been filed are great news!

Well worth the wait.

[Quakerfriend]

14. One more time.....Muchas Gracias Will!

[Kimber Scott]

11. Awhile back, Will, you said none of this mattered. Does it matter now?

I mean will it change anything as far as this election goes, or will it only serve to preserve the integrity of future elections?

[WilliamPitt]

15. I'd say both fights are worth fighting

If it doesn't overturn the election but moves the ball down the field regarding protection of future elections, I'd say it is all worth it.

[wlubin]

20. And if we prove fraud but don't get the shrub out of the white house

then we have cast a HUGE black cloud over this administration, let's not forget.

[politicasista]

67. But wasn't this Kerry's only opportunity to be president?

That is what sucks, but I am trying to see the bigger picture.

[tavalon]

120. Hey, you're smarter than Kerry is

He's playing careful because he thinks he can preserve his chances for 2008, but in playing so careful he's taking away any chance of running again (of course it won't matter if even God runs next time if the Thugs have a lock on the voting system).

[Kimber Scott]

26. I totally agree. I just put a lot of stock in your opinion and I was just

wondering if it was time to get excited about Kerry, or simply be happy our future will be more difficult to tamper with. I'd sure like it to be both, but the second is more than good enough.

[Silver Gaia]

54. I agree, Will...

From the beginning, I've felt that the main issue here is democracy itself. It's about the right of the PEOPLE of America to a fair and transparent election process. Without that, democracy is dead in America, IMO. Of course, I have always felt that the true winner of this election is John Kerry. But the key issue here is the election process itself. IF, by investigating and proving that this election was fraudulent on many levels, the election results are overturned and John Kerry is actually inaugurated on January 20th--then woohoo! I will be ecstatic! But that would be a side-effect of the underlying issue, the most important issue we face here: the disenfranchisement of the American people. This issue supercedes all else, and is the foundation of any other possible outcomes. Slow and steady, first things first, all the ducks in a row... JMHO... As many have said, I think this movement is gaining strength and is about to explode. It may not prevent the inauguration of * on January 20th. I am prepared to accept that, but that does NOT mean I will ever accept it as legitimate. I also do not feel it would mean all is cemented in stone. I do believe these crooks WILL fall. Sometimes the best things are worth waiting for. All is proceeding as it should, IMO.

[Farmgirl]

69. Fighting for freedom, true democracy and the will of the people...

has always been and will always be the noble fight. The outcome is certainly not "irrelevant", but the process -- it's always about the process....afterall, this is about all of us. I fail to understand that so many people just don't get it that when even one single person is disenfranchised, we ALL are disenfranchised. So many people fail to see the interconnectedness of it all...it's like it's all about 'me', 'me', 'me' and screw everyone else. As far as I'm concerned that what the * administration is all about too.


oops - went off on a tirade...kind of felt good though.

:kick:

[Silver Gaia]

86. Farmgirl... YES!

Quote: "when even one single person is disenfranchised, we ALL are disenfranchised."

[tavalon]

122. I hope someone else has welcomed you to DU by now

But if not, welcome! Even if so, welcome!

[troubleinwinter]

12. YES!!! I was hoping to get that tech UNDER OATH!!!

Would one of the motions be allowed, if not the other?

Do we know anything about the judge?

[beachgrl60]

18. looking at it as a lawyer

it is an important filing and it's a good show of faith but im my legal opinion the judges that this will go before will not allow these motions. I'm a Columbus Lawyer that works in the area of election fraud and the law. I personally am familiar with the judges there and I don't see this as being effective. You must understand that politics enters into everything. Because I work and socialize with these men, I'm not going to slander them, but mark my words, there's a Republican agenda at work here. I realize that sounds like a silly conspiracy theory, but look into it, you'll understand what I'm talking about. Thanks everyone. Any other questions ask my wife and she'll get them to me.

[cyberpj]

23. Welcome to our tin foil hat club -

re: "there's a Republican agenda at work here. I realize that sounds like a silly conspiracy theory..."

:tinfoilhat: :hi:

[BarbinMD]

27. How is truth...

...slander? Just curious.

[elizm]

30. Looking at it from MY non-lawyer point of view...

Kerry is in the game now and screw the Republican agenda! At the very LEAST they will be exposed for the scum that they are.

[gdub]

33. The case in question is before a Clinton appointee

in Federal district court. Republican politics do not have anything to do with this case.

[me b zola]

35. But isn't this why Cliff filed another suit

trying to expose contributions made by certain corperate entities to the campaigns of some of the (Moyer) State Supreme Court Judges in Ohio?

Will, am I way off here?

[EuroObserver]

91. Ohio Supreme Court

I read something some time before the election, probably in The Guardian or The Independent (Brit press) identifying Ohio (as well as Florida) as a key state and predicting that, since the Ohio Supreme Court is loaded with Republican nominees, any fight over (then) predicted fraud would come to grief on that reef.

So, avoiding that Court would seem to be an excellent strategy.

However, eventually the legal process would eventually arrive at the Federal Supreme Court - and we all saw what happened the last time.

So, yes of course those judges are (sometimes, obviously) politically-motivated.

All the more reason to play to the Court of Public Opinion.

[Pirate Smile]

40. Is there anything they could do that would be effective (in your opinion)?

[troubleinwinter]

46. So your "legal opinion" would be to do what?

Just throw up your hands and walk away?

So glad you work in the area of election fraud. What are you currently doing to help with the effort to expose the fraud in the 2004 Ohio election?

[Spazito]

48. Ohhhh, great question!

:evilgrin:

[beachgrl60]

59. Never said

to walk away! You can't give up fighting for the truth, no matter how difficult it gets! If I gave that impression, I apologize. I am working and have been consulted several times on many of these issues. I've got my hands in some pies here, but needless to say, putting it out on the internet before it reaches fruition isn't the wise way to go. I'm in Florida now with my investigator looking into fraud allegations, questions about voter intimidation etc. We've just talked to 400 people here with startling allegations that look to be true. If so, it's not over here either. Don't give up. Stay in touch.

[johnaries]

88. Thank you for your work! Keep it up!

And thank you for your analysis. As I said in another part of this thread, even if it is thrown out for obviusly partisan reasons, won't that just raise more questions and still increase the chances of an Electoral Challenge? The Challenge of the Electoral Votes is the big thing here, isn't it? And if OH and FL are BOTH challenged - WOO HOO!
:toast:
It's just getting better and better!

[earth mom]

62. I'm certainly no expert, but don't the judges

have to take this filing seriously because it's Kerry who has filed the case? How can they blow him off? And another thing, how can practically every single person from senators to congressman to judges put their political careers before conscience in this instance? There has to be some good honest people in office somewhere, or maybe I'm just too much of an idealist.

[beachgrl60]

70. you don't know

much about the judicial system, my friend.

[earth mom]

96. I already said

I wasn't an expert, but I know what I've been reading around here since the election and elsewhere for months and months. I didn't just fall off the turnip truck "my friend."

Perhaps someone else can reply to my question.

[tavalon]

124. Yeah, welcome to Pragmata

As a forty something woman, I find I still have to route out this well seated idealism. Pragmatism has become my second nature in this last year though and I think it will serve me well during this long slog to the demise of this round of fascism.

[Zan_of_Texas]

97. There aren't many attorneys anywhere who work in election law.

You could be mighty valuable if you volunteered to help Cobb or Arneback.

Why, there's an attorney who came in from Hawaii just to help, and there you are, right there, and you even know the judges.

Have you volunteered?

[gdub]

31. People! - RESET YOUR EXPECTATIONS

Kerry is not going to be inaugurated in place of Bush. Come 1/20/2005, George Bush will enter his second term.

The objective at this point is to create an evidentiary trail that can be used to continue this investigation after 1/6/2005 and 1/20/2005.

Get ready, because this is going to go on for a while. So settle in for the long term and everyone--stop getting so excited!

If you are this excited now, just drop out, because it is going to take a lot more energy to pursue this.

What we should expect is that this issue will just get bigger and bigger through 2005, despite getting shut down by OH courts, and despite the appearance that the issue wil end 1/6/05. This will be Bush's Watergate. *All* the facts are consistent with widespread electoin fraud (exit polls, Blackwell coverup, reports of flipped votes on touchscreens, etc.); these facts are not consistent with an unmanipulated election. The number of Americans who believe that the vote was fixed is growing. Everyone who I talk to about this mentions that they have a cousin or a neighbor who is as obsessed about this as me and you, and we are the mustard seeds of this story. This is an event of historic proportions, and history will be written our way eventually, because the facts just won't go away...

[Clark2008]

37. In other words, maybe God did choose for * to be re-selected

so that He and the courts could show the dense, sheep-led, "moral values" voters exactly HOW bad George Dubya is and how badly these voters have been misled by the GOP marketing machine and the corporate media.

That's fine with me, too.

I've never said, "I told you so," but I'll certainly start. ;)

[LittleClarkie]

101. Reminds me of that class experiment

where the teacher convinced half the class they were better than the other half, creating a movement. At the end of the class experiment, he revealed that their leader was Hitler. Anyone remember that story?

Shock treatment. I could see it. I think that's what it will take too. Half the country is almost cultic in their believe in Bush and Co.

[tavalon]

130. Molly Ivins mentioned something about that

Apparently the way one trains a dog out of being a chicken killer is to take one of the chickens it has killed and use wire to secure it snuggly against the dog's neck and as the chicken decomposes, no one will get near the dog and the dog even wants to get away from himself and as the last of the chicken decays away, that dog isn't a chicken killer anymore.

George Bush is this nation's chicken and we will have to smell the stench until we will never, ever consider having his type in power again.

[molly]

I think you are underestimating us

just the fact that we have this much of a voice and impact is epic.

[cyberpj]

39. but keep moving as quick as possible because

although the facts just won't go away --

they seem to be doing pretty good at covering them up, trashing them, or possibly offing them.

We need to get out hands on stuff ASAP.

[Pirate Smile]

45. Some of us do realize that. This will only get bigger and bigger if some

concrete evidence is uncovered. At least they are now in a position to maybe accomplish that.

[BreakForNews]

66. DON'T TOUCH THAT RESET SWITCH !!

Please do not adjust your expectations.
Normal service will be resuming shortly.

We apologise for the brief interruption of Democracy.
Please stay tuned....

....for more exciting developments.

[liam97]

68. Dear Breakfornews

I was waiting for your comments on Will's scoop - so do you think the filing strengthens your hypotheses?

[BreakForNews]

98. More shortly....

....I'll be geting an update online later.
This is what William indicated. V good.

[liberalla]

75. gdub, Thank you for your perspective...

and I happen to agree with you, that this will be going on for quite awhile.

I AM IN IT FOR THE LONG HAUL.

Yet, I do watch for all the little clues, and get over-excited, and even have fantasies about the electoral college vote tally changing the outcome (short term - even though I think it's a fantasy).

It's also good to recognize that the little steps now and all the hoopla surrounding each small event... these are part of the big picture. Every protest, every sign made and carried, every letter to a Senator, every email to a media outlet, is taking us on this journey. They are part of the long haul.

I like what you say and agree with you re: the eventual outcome.

This is bUSH's Watergate. "This is an event of historic proportions, and history will be written our way eventually, because the facts just won't go away... "

[MissBrooks]

76. Thank you...

That's what I have been asking about all along.

[crispini]

77. yes, THANK YOU gdub!

A good and wise post.

"This will be Bush's Watergate."

THAT is what everybody needs to focus on.

[tavalon]

127. Great post!

Welcome to DU.

Most of my life (because of allergies) I've had Poodles as pets. They are endearing, loving little creatures but to say they are high strung is well, an understatement of epic proportions.

Through the years I've come to call the behavior exhibited by many people "poodling" and the behavior ensuing as "Poodle puddles". There has been much Poodling here of late and the result is an awful lot of Poodle puddles.

Now is the time for deep breathing folks, that and the dogged commitment to the long term. This isn't instant gratification TV - it never has been and it isn't going to be.

[politicasista]

34. I agree it's about saving democracy, however...........

I am sad that we won't get to see Kerry be inagurated. He is so much more presidental than the convict in chief.:cry:

[senseandsensibility]

38. exactly

Call me crazy, but I don't think it's presidential to steal an election. I also don't think it's right to allow the thief to keep the office he stole. Guess I'm just old school that way.

[New Earth]

73. why do you bother?

[WilliamPitt]

36. TRUTHOUT LINK HERE

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x199842

[aquart]

41. Now we pray for an honest judge?

[Quakerfriend]

47. Yes, just a little bit of integrity.

[Pacifist Patriot]

58. Honest, apolitical and conscienscious. The odds are?

I'm sorry to sound so cynical, but while I applaud the filing and think it is absolutely appropriate, I realistically fear the Republican controlled courts in Ohio will laugh at it behind closed doors and dismiss it post haste from the bench.

[IndyPriest]

63. I heard it's a Fed judge appointed by Clinton. n/t

[Kansas Wyatt]

106. Look-out for the massive blowback....

The neo-conjobs will never shut up about how Clinton destroyed this country, and cheated Shrub out of the election.

The neo-conjobs will have something else to add to endless rants of how Clinton let 9/11 happen, lost all of those jobs, tanked the stock market, ran up all of those deficits, dishonored the Presidency, and left our military a wreck.

Never mind the fact that SHRUB is and was the blame for ALL of it, and probably more that we don't know about.

[liberalla]

109. REALLY ???

"I heard it's a Fed judge appointed by Clinton. n/t"
Posted by IndyPriest

REALLY ?

HOW DO WE FIND OUT ??? Seems like that would be a plus for us!

[IndyPriest]

136. It was in a thread a couple days ago. But we'll know for sure soon enough!

[gdub]

53. Additional analysis here at Scam-o-rama:

FROM SCAM-O-RAMA (http//:scam-o-rama.blogspot.com):

Today, the Kerry/Edwards campaign filed a motion to intervene in Federal court in connection with a recount effort involving the 2004 presidential election. The anticipated Kerry/Edwards action follows a ruling this past week by the Republican-dominated Ohio Supreme Court that lays groundwork for procedural delay and ultimate dismissal of a separate challenge of election suit brought by a public interest group in Ohio Supreme Court. The contest of election suit alleges wide spread fraud and voter disenfranchisement in the Ohio presidential and Supreme Court elections and asks for the Ohio Supreme Court to vacate the election results.

The new development from the Kerry/Edwards camp is significant and critical to the investigation of potential fraud in the 2004 General Election. Without additional involvement by the Kerry/Edwards campaign in the recount process, the recount investigation in Ohio may be over, with the “official” recount results showing John Kerry picking up only 242 votes against George Bush.

The stakes are higher than may be readily apparent. A dismissal by the Ohio Supreme Court at this juncture would effectively end the investigation into allegations of fraud in the 2004 General Election. The evidentiary record will begin to deteriorate and to be lost completely. The likely result is the suppression of any further questions concerning the legitimacy of the Presidency of the United States amid wide spread and credible allegations of fraud, conspiracy and corruption.

MORE:
http://scam-o-rama.blogspot.com

[BreakForNews]

79. From your blog...........

"........In 1933, the year Hitler took control of Germany, some of Wall Street's top financiers sent representatives to recruit the recently-retired General Butler into a fascist coup d'etat to overthrow FDR. Butler played along in order to find out who was behind the scheme...

Thanks to General Butler, this Wall Street plan to subvert U.S. democracy was thwarted. The list of individuals known to be behind the attempted American coup in 1934 included some of the nation’s most powerful corporate leaders, including the du Ponts (du Pont Co., General Motors), Nathan Miller (US Steel), Andrew Mellon (Gulf Oil, ALCOA), the Rockefellers (Standard Oil), Ernest Weir (National Steel), Alfred Sloan (General Motors), Howard Pew (Sunoco), William Randolph Hearst (Hearst Newspapers), JP Morgan, Jr. (JP Morgan Co.), and, ironically, Howard Heinz (HJ Heinz Co.), great grandfather of Theresa Heinz Kerry’s first husband, Republican Senator John Heinz."
http://scam-o-rama.blogspot.com/

Funny you should bring that up..

More from your blog...

"Many hope that the legal maneuverings in Ohio will impact the 2004 General Election and prevent George Bush from entering a second term. However, these expectations may be unrealistic. If the Kerry/Edwards motion today helps to protect the evidentiary record, we can hope that the truth will eventually come out.

Perhaps it is best to expect that this issue will just get bigger and bigger through 2005, despite eventually being shut down by Ohio's courts, and despite the appearance that the issue will end on January 6, 2005 when Congress meets to accept the Electoral College votes."

Quite a downbeat take on things, your blog.

You would like us to adjust our expectations, eh?

Downward.

I'm sure Karl would too.

[gdub]

114. That's very amusing

I am Karl Rove, sitting here in the White House kitchen in my underwear eating a turkey sandwich on rye, so I won't be offended.

The point is: keep this in perspective. When Bush is inaugurated on January 20, what are you going to do? Throw in the towel?

I know I'll still be here. Or rather laugning in my West Wing office.

This is a much larger and much more important fight then whether John Kerry actually won this election. Our democracy is at stake.

Personally, I think Kerry is a not a strong leader. Do we need more evidence of this than his position on the recount?

However, Kerry certainly represents a better part of America than Bush--our America, the one in which you and I may have different opinions on the details and perhaps even the ultimate goals.

I have been historically a Republican. I was at one point proud of that. What did I learn running opposition research for Republicans and out manuevering Democracts? I learned that the tactics always serve the ultimate strategic goals.

This will be a very long fight. Get ready for it. More importantly, get organized, get realistic, and let's figure out how to use our collective resources to win!

[tavalon]

134. Hi Karl

LOL. I suspect you will be one of our great assets. Welcome aboard!:hi:

[anamandujano]

108. Arnebeck has said that his suit will flip the election

He had hoped to put the story before the public as an antidote to the treasonous political courts. I hope he wasn't being naive about our press.

I appreciate both your views gdub and Breakfornews. I just keep having visions of how the repukes were able to go forward in spite of Gore having won Florida and continue going forward in spite of their incompetence in preventing 9/11. The 9/11 investigation managed to sweep the issue under the rug.

If this isn't the main issue of the Bush second term, and we know he will be able to make this issue practically non-existent with the help of his propaganda arm the US media (FUCKERS), I think they will have won again. Any possible bills to fix the broken election system will not come to the floor and no one will even know they existed. The unjust war will continue to be waged ineptly, killing and killing and killing. More wars will follow. Democrats will sing Bush's praises daily.

Dark thoughts again--please tell me I'm way off base.

[Deb]

84. Can the Court protect the Triad Tech against his wishes?

It seems to me that if the motions are agreed to, he will need it.

[Lostnote03]

85. Fantastic!!!!!!!!

.......I thought all day that someone carrying the documents would slip on ice, Not get there in time and the GOP would interpret it as an act of God thus Non actionable.....Everyone should be hitting the call-in talk circuit and remind/imform people of a third fraudulant election in -process.....Hartman reminded me today of the Sept.12th/2001 copy of the NY Times, buried "Deeep" within its pages the final analysis of the Media Consortium Report....How pathetic is greed....

[Withywindle]

95. This has all been so great, to have this information...

I can't thank you enough, Will!

:yourock:

[Karenca]

100. Thank you Will '''''''

You have contributed so very much.
I don't know where we would be right now without you.

[troubleinwinter]

102. Another reason it is important (?)

I think it gives a HUUUUUGE clue to the House and Senate regarding what should be done Jan. 6!!!!

If the electors are rejected on Jan. 6th, the MSM simply cannot ignore it, and the fraud will have to be reported.

[babylonsister]

103. Hallelujah-more hope! Thanks to Mr. Pitt! nt

[Melissa G]

104. Big enthusiastic sloppy e-kiss to Will!

Right on your kitty cat boo boos!
Thanks for all your great work!:loveya: :yourock: :loveya: :yourock: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya:

[graywarrior]

107. You made my day, Will

Especially since I started back to work after a 4 month layoff and I already hate my job.

[Andy_Stephenson]

113. We were pretty happy in the office about this

today.

[Darkhawk32]

118. Heya Andy....

What you think the odds are of getting the motion granted?

[troubleinwinter]

121. Yup, I think it is definitely happy news.

[delphine]

131. Will, any clue as to why the K-E Attorney wrote to Olbermann

and said, once again, that Bush won and this is not a challenge and there was no fraud?

At the same time they are asking for the "evidence" to be preserved?

Anyone?

It's on Olbermann's blog tonight.

Why are these guys so afraid for people to think the KE people might think there might have been fraud?

Why not just say we don't think there was fraud but we want to get to the bottom of it, instead of continually and repeatedly declaring bush the winner and saying there was no fraud?

[WilliamPitt]

132. There are three different threads of mine on this question

They're still up on the first page, I think.

[delphine]

133. Sorry - just came in and checked the boards.

[delphine]

135. having trouble finding them. link?

[WilliamPitt]

137. Here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=199763

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x200711

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=201035

For starters.

[delphine]

140. Thanks. I tracked them down and posted there by sorting by

your name as "posted by".

I just read the TO story.

What struck me was this part from Bonifaz:

"We welcome the Bush Cheney campaign joining our motion as well. The integrity of this recount is at stake. All candidates ought to join together in ensuring the proper counting of every citizen's vote."

Which sort of answers the question of why K-E and their attorneys and others keep insisting this isn't about changing the outcome. How can the repukes be against making sure the votes are properly counted if it's not a challenge or accusation of fraud? It's just counting votes, right?

So they fight proper vote counting and look like buttheads, or they remain silent and look . . . silent. (They won't come out in support of it). In the meantime the votes get counted and they can't really attack anything.

Blackwell takes the fall for getting in the way of everything (he's already refusing to be deposed before anyone even asked him, just to delay).

So my biggest complaint about this would be that everything has to happen asap and that means constant visits to court to speed things up and stop people from stonewalling. This is something they so far have not really done.

[MasonJar]

141. Wonder wht Blackwell doesn't want to testify under oath if he is

so innocent? Oh, yeah.