"Never let them know what you are thinking"

[Samantha]

Four years ago, we were given an education by Molly Ivins on the essence of the classic politician from Texas. Lying is not a sin, explained Molly, it's an art. Thus, one can supposedly be a "good, Christian man" in Texas, but if he or she is involved in politics a well-honed ability to prevaricate is a must. Without the ability to tell a good lie, one cannot be a considered a good politician -- that is, in Texas.

Swing to the East and think of the basic political edict that all politics is local. The bottom line to succeeding in politics inside the Beltway is today and always has been "never let them know what you are thinking." This posture is so inherent in the inside-the-beltway landscape, one always sees it displayed in companies, government entities, in short, everywhere.

Kerry plays this to the Nth degree.

Compare the demeanor of the politician from Texas who now resides in the White House to the demeanor of our classic politician from the East. The contrast could not be more startling. This recognition also helps explain why a political player from Texas could not possibly fit into the Washington landscape, much as a liberal from Massachusetts does not play well in Houston. It is a political cultural clash in the extreme.

I post this tonight in haste because I have intended to start a thread on this subject for the last four weeks, but simply could not make the time. I do this now at this late hour for one reason: if you are not a part of the inside-the-beltway mentality, and you find yourself a little confused by the nuances of the Kerry camp, you are normal.

"Never let them know what you are thinking." Just as the political liars from Texas confound and confuse those of us not a part of that political culture, the stoic politicians from the East often do just the same to people outside the political cultural boundaries of the beltway. (Note: this is not to imply all people from Texas are liars; it merely asserts Texas has more than its fair share of political liars, according to its political experts, for example, Ivins). The difference between us and them is that we are polished, we are diplomatic and we are not in the business of totally deceiving and manipulating the general populace. They are.

With this explanation in mind as to how the classic Eastern politician plays his hand, perhaps you will have a different lens with which to view the actions of John Kerry.

Submitted by a long-time political junkie in Washington solely for your political encouragement in continuing your fight to save our democracy. Do not be discouraged by what you see or don't see from John Kerry.

Bush stole it. Kerry knows it. But Kerry will never let Bush* know what he is thinking.

Comments?

[PROGRESSIVE1]

1. .

[Samantha]

4. Okay, wise one, I know what you are thinking ....

[Darknyte7]

38. Well said...

[zann725]

135. In that line of thought, my caption for this pic is:

"He's baaaaaaack!!"

[TexasChick]

2. Very interesting...but I still think it's one of those things where we'll

just have to wait and see.

I'm a little nervous about this whole thing about investigating fraud because I doubt Kerry sometimes, but I like the positive peeps here and I live vicariously through them; the ones who don't doubt him. I think it's fun that way and it helps keep me from getting down. Thanks for the link!

[Samantha]

7. Every time I hear one of our political strategists say

we need someone with an outside the beltway mentality leading our party, I think, are you're kidding: all politics is local. This is the political capital of the world. Anyone succeeding in this arena not understanding our "local" political cultural cannot succeed in this environment. It's that simple.

But most of all, I wanted to explain to all the DU'ers out there why they should not be discouraged by Kerry's conduct. It's classic Washington political play. You will never know what Kerry is thinking until the last moment when he plays his hand. (And you might not know even then!) Please do not allow his conduct to discourage you from your convictions regarding election integrity. You would be doing yourself a great disservice over simply a political misunderstanding.

[TexasChick]

10. Thanks, Samantha. I don't doubt Kerry a lot, it just comes in waves.

There's a lot of people here who are very good uplifters and I find comfort in them and also in stuff like your link you just provided. I have a feeling something's happening, I just don't know what. I am truly terrified for this country the first time in my life and I just don't think we can survive Smirking Chimp for four more years.

However, I still think Kerry is hot!!! LOL!

[Samantha]

16. Ahhhhhhhhh ... but TexasChick ... never let Them know what You are

thinking!

I totally understand your agony. I think we all feel it. Our political opponent plays its political hand in the open. It bluffs openly and often. We need to call those bluffs with our calm, thinking demeanor and play our hand when we are ready. We do not need to play the game as they do. We are not like them, or else we would be Republicans!

We are the Democrats, and better yet, we are the Democratic DU'ers! And you will not know what we are thinking until we are ready.

[TexasChick]

20. Okay, I'm going to trust you on this one, Samantha. Thanks for the kind

words! :hi:

[bunny planet]

46. Sorry but when somebody posts the dreamy pool picture I have to let

someone know what I'm thinking, if it was fit for printing that is.

[Patsy Stone]

76. You mean like

:loveya: ?

[bunny planet]

79. Yeah kind of like that.

[bunny planet]

80. Gotta go beddy bye.

Toodles.

[Im with Rosey]

100. Just wondering Samantha,

You seem to have not only strong convictions but also courage of your convictions... it appears to me you have an inside track on how JK is handling things. I would LOVE to believe you do have an inside track, not just the undying faith that I have! I am not discouraged, just concerned about time issues and the difficulties that time presents.

[Samantha]

122. I have no inside track on Kerry's plans

I like you do not know what he is thinking.

The one thing I do have an inside track on is the inside the beltway approach to politics. I have lived here for a long time. I have been a political junkie since I was a teenager. I observe people, it's a habit of mine. People who love politics have varying reasons for doing so. I am not the hand-to-hand combat type. I am the observer who always analyzes people's motivations. That's the interesting thing for me. Kerry is a man I have observed for a long time, and I have simply pegged him for playing the Washington game to the nth degree.

The best way to explain it is I have long been in circles where "never let them know what you are thinking" is constantly, but obviously, but in a low-key manner, the rule of thumb.

I think a person who lives in Kansas might not spot that right away, because he or she does not see it over and over again as we do here. Conversely, the political junkie out of Kansas can point things out to us Washington, DC DU'ers we might not otherwise zero in on. That's the beauty of belonging to DU.

When the Bush* regime blows over, ask me again about my history here and I will tell you more. I have worked around some fascinating people and been involved in some fascinating historical shall we say events. I keep a low profile because sometimes a person's professional life must be compartmentalized from his or her passionate hobbies. It's a tricky line to walk.

[zann725]

136. So when Hoffheimer had to 'correct' his earlier statement...

on behalf of JK camp, he was actually learning "Beltway"...as opposed to "up-front Midwesterner."

Now I see...

[spooked]

3. Good Point. Kerry HAS to know it was stolen

maybe he's playing it like the prosecutor he is.

What I want to know is HOW CAN TERESA KEEP QUIET!!??

[shraby]

5. Teresa is class.

Classy people can keep quiet when it's necessary.

[flyarm]

162. Teresa is not only class..she is....

she is smart ...darned smart!! She is cunningly smart!! And she doesn't like her man dirtied!!..Remember she was the one who had to be convinced of edwards, as she was not warm with him from the get go , because he was nasty ( in her minds eye) to John during the debates...she was the one who had to be convinced about john edwards!

[Samantha]

9. Two reasons

He threatened her with a gag order.

He sequestered her for his own protection!

[insane_cratic_gal]

15. Quiet

But are we sure there was never a donation made to the Green party from Teresa? Say a anonymous one?
I wouldn't be surprised to find that out. You know she's a fighter and just wanting to slap Bush a time or two.

Heck I only buy Heinz ketchup now LOL.. And I live just outside of Pittsburgh.

I admire the woman's spunk

[Samantha]

17. No, I am not sure of that

but if I were I would not say it. Would you?

[insane_cratic_gal]

28. East coaster Myself

Nope I wouldn't.

flying stealth under the radar is the Yankie way. Unless your Paul Revere of course

;-)

[bunny planet]

50. Are recounts or money for lawyers covered by the same 2000 dollars

per person as campaign donations to a candidate. I think not. Teresa can give as much money as she wants in that case, and so can Soros. Where is Soros anyway? Come to think of it, where is everybody? They sure are all good at keeping it on the down low.

[kerrygoddess]

55. Is it about the money for you?

[bunny planet]

59. Huh?

[kerrygoddess]

62. The point is

Whatever is being done is not being made public. Why would you expect to hear about money from Soros or Teresa for recounts?

[bunny planet]

77. I was just thinking out loud, of course I don't expect them to make their

money donations towards these causes public. I'm just saying they don't have to, and they are not constrained by the 2000 dollar limit as in campaign donations. Capeesh?

[kerrygoddess]

78. Better left unsaid

we all capeesh.

[bunny planet]

99. ok

[whometense]

6. Bravo.

I've been reluctant to even blog about this, not sure how much attention to call to the situation. I'm no chess player myself, but respect and admire their skills.

My question has been, and continues to be, how can I help, wanting to make the most difference possible but not interfere with the plan.

I guess this sounds conspiratorial and weird. But I've known from the second Kerry conceded that there was a plan. I have complete faith in him.

[Samantha]

11. I have no answer -- just a little advice

I think all of us must do what we simply think is right. We do not gauge our actions, or our political reactions, out of passion for our heroes. Sometimes even our most stellar political heroes are not quite what they seem to be.

To avoid making foolish mistakes out of passion as opposed to the intent to simply do the right thing, we should be motivated in our actions by our political senses of right and wrong. It's hard to do, I believe, but keeping that compass in mind I think alleviates to a great extent future possibilities of regrets. I hope this helps you arrive at your own answer.

[whometense]

14. Interesting.

Thanks. I'm teetering all the time. Can't let it go, don't want to sound the trumpet.

As one who is a brand new member of the tinfoil hat brigade it's all new to me. ;-)

[kerrygoddess]

21. Hang in there whometense

I remember you from the Kerry Blog and Forum.

[whometense]

25. Thanks, kerrygoddess!!

I remember you too. The first time I saw a post from you here it really gave me a lift.

Seems like a long strange journey from there to here. I spent a lot of time at Kos, fighting the Kerry-bashers, but finally gave it up. I find this forum a lot more congenial. And even when I'm feeling paranoid (as expressed in this thread) there are like-thinkers around, which is just great.

My faith in Kerry is absolute - but I admit there are times I wish I had a clue.

[kerrygoddess]

32. Ah ... whometense

"What a long strange trip it's been"! I remember during the primaries when one of JK's fundraisers sent me an email with that line. I laughed my ass off. It's great to see you here!

Keep your faith exaxtly where it is. The clues are all falling into place.

Check out the website and blog I am part of - http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/default.asp

[whometense]

36. I will check it out, thanks.

It's wonderful to keep up with the other true believers.

I've been writing for ToughEnough.

[kerrygoddess]

42. Small World...

I know Tough Enough well. Eric was an early Kerry believer.

[whometense]

72. He still is,

but we're not in total agreement about these election issues. He's more ready to move on. And I'm not.

[kerrygoddess]

74. He lost faith for a while there in the midst

Not surprised

[super simian]

56. Hi whometense!!

I've stuck up for Kerry on Kos, too, one day I will make an index of all my comments which basically said give the man credit for being smart and for caring more than we do if the presidency got stolen from him... or not. I can't believe that he went into this and made the investment he did without his eyes wide open.

I'm not a lawyer or a political scientist or a statistician, just an artist who has learned to trust her intuition by putting it to the test time and time again over the years. So my intution tells me this election was stolen and that Kerry has a plan, and I'm going to go with that. All along I have seen the wisdom of keeping the MSM out of it, since they will never spin it in Kerry's favor unless they have no choice.

On the other hand I agree that it is good for us to be active and be involved.

:eyes: :bounce: :hi: :think:

[whometense]

65. HI super simian!

I've read your posts on Kos - it's (unfortunately) not that hard to keep track of the Kerry defenders over there.

Wise words. I believe in intuition too, and my intuition tells me the same thing yours tells you. I absolutely believe it was stolen, and I would never sell Kerry's intelligence or intensity short.

I think you're exactly right about the media. If Kerry didn't know that by now, he would not have learned much from the MSM election coverage.

[s-cubed]

101. I continue to feel that letters, e-mail, calls to the congress, senate,

and media are helping. We may not be aware of it, but the pressure is necessary. That, and coming to DC on 1/6 and 1/20 (both if possible, but I think the 6th is more important). They cannot ignore a million people outside the capitol;

[me b zola]

8. Very Sicilian eom

[fishnfla]

12. Rove was thinking: Rally the base. K/E was thinking:what?

Hmmph. Never did find out

[Patsy Stone]

13. Well

yes. Absolutely. I even wrote a diary at kos once questioning if we were the ones screwing up some grand plan. I don't believe that anymore, but when I wrote it, the whole thing had just begun and I was worried that we were making too much noise.

Then I moved to the realization (rather quickly, actually) that we were not only required to stand up for ourselves, but that it could only help the situation on so many levels.

If you've seen me post it once, you've seen me post it a million times. Read Sun Tzu's The Art of War. Right now. Go. Go get it now. It's tiny, you'll read it in an hour and it will take you a lifetime to comprehend the myriad of possibilities going on here.

This is a giant chess game. It has to be. There are so many things all at once that defy logic. It can not be a coincidence.

[IndyPriest]

30. And, if you were going to bet on which one actually

understood the art of war, whom would you vote for: Bush or Kerry? My money's on JFK.

[Patsy Stone]

37. Or, more correctly,

For whom did I vote? :)
How about that line "This is the biggest bunch of liars..." He knows. He knows. He knows.

And as you know, this is b/w KKKR and JFK. Not shrub. He a shrub. :)

[IndyPriest]

41. Yes, really, b/w JFK and little Karl.

And I wonder if Karl really knows who it is he's up against...

[DieboldMustDie]

35. And you don't even have to pay for it.

;) Sun Tzu on the Art of War ;)

[Patsy Stone]

52. Lovely. TY. n/t

[jdog]

160. Wow thanks.

Saved me a trip to the bookstore!

[glitch]

39. Get yer Art of War right here:

http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/132 Sun Tzu's The Art of War

[kerrygoddess]

43. You Rock!

Thanks for that link... did not know about Project Gutenberg!

[glitch]

48. If you love literature you will love it there! nt

[kerrygoddess]

81. I'm a readaholic

Ever so grateful!

[Patsy Stone]

53. Great Site. n/t

[Samantha]

123. Responses such as this one of yours

is one of the reasons I love DU.

[kerrygoddess]

18. Thanks Samantha

Straight up, on the money talk about John Kerry and what is happening. You obviously know the man well.

I for one am not discouraged and am continuing the fight myself.

[Samantha]

24. Good for you kerrygoddess

I have been wondering the last two days if a political faceoff between us and then quietly commenced, would we fold when the serious first punches were thrown. We see them now starting in all earnest to disparage whatever efforts may be made in various venues to publicly scorn their election theft. The world must not know Bush is not legitimate inasmuch as he is pitching democracy in Iraq, saving democracy in the Ukraine, and doing all he can do to posture himself in the face of the world as the man with the mandate. He is an extremist, and we must not lose our courage in our fight against him.

[kerrygoddess]

27. Courage

When you know who John Kerry is, you trust that he will follow through. You know he's got your back and you're not afraid to get his back. Anyone who does not understand this needs to study his history. Kerry has always been steady in who he is.

This is all playing out in a perfectly arranged plan and it's time to rise to the occassion and truly stand up for what we believe in, not just go through the motions or give it lip service.

[zann725]

137. Wow! Thank you! I felt the strength in that. It strengthened me too.

Now that everyone is speaking out here:
I've had the strongest gut-level "image" of Kerry breezing-in through the doors of the Vote Count on Jan 6. And his jaw is SO set, SO determined...and there is a wind-like force (SO STRONG) behind him as he comes through those doors...that I am CERTAIN he is not alone as he enters that door.
And it's an 'intuitive' image that keeps coming back off and on throughout the day...for the last week. I hesitated to mention it, but this seems like the right thread.
I think they said that Kerry may be in Iraq, or somewhere overseas on Jan. 6...but the image I'm getting is SO strong that this might be how he's 'playing his hand.' Or maybe he won't have to actually be there, as others will be bringing his 'force' with them to the necessary resolution at hand.

Just a thought. Wanted to share.

[kerrygoddess]

143. Talk about strength! HELLO!

I could totally visualize this ... and I know it will now continue to play through my head... intent and visualization are very powerful tools.

JK won't need to be there on Jan 6, there WILL be a "force" to be reckoned with. Thanks for sharing.

[mulethree]

19. But they know that you know that they know that you know

[TexasChick]

23. LOL!! n/t

[Samantha]

26. Well, the way I heard it

We know there are things we do not know. What we do not know is what it is we do not know.

At least that is what Rumsfeld said.

But of course, you knew that, didn't you ....

[TexasChick]

31. LOL! Boy, that's a tongue twister! I guess that made sense to 'ol

Donald Dumbsfeld, didn't it? LOL!

[Jim Sagle]

44. If I DID know that, I'd never admit it.

;-)

[Samantha]

124. Because you would never let me know what you were thinking or

because you would not know that you did not know?

[Jim Sagle]

129. What didn't I know and when didn't I know it?

:silly:

[Samantha]

140. Okay, Jim Sagle, it's not what you know but who you know that does not

know you know them that counts. So never let them know if you know what they are thinking, or even if you know they know you are wondering what they are thinking.

[Patsy Stone]

47. To quote the poet DH Rumsfeld:

As we know,
There are known knowns.
There are things we know we know.
We also know
There are known unknowns.
That is to say
We know there are some things
We do not know.
But there are also unknown unknowns,
The ones we don't know
We don't know.

--Feb. 12, 2002, Department of Defense news briefing

[bunny planet]

57. Yes that sounds like the Secretary of Defecation himself.

[bleever]

104. I've always been irked by that,

not because it's wrong, but because of the smug, sophistic tone of having mapped the entire territory of Knowledge.

I've always thought we should add, at the end:

"And then there's shit
We can't even BEGIN to guess about."

:hi:


ed: smilie malfunction

[Patsy Stone]

109. And don't forget...

The shit you shouldn't even KNOW from! (Please say this while forcing your left hand forward in a "Feh!" kind of a motion.)

:hi:

[bleever]

111. ROFLMAO!

Thanks: that really brightened my day.

[ginnyinWI]

22. I felt at the time that the concession speech didn't add up.

Didn't seem like the Kerry we'd seen for a year or more during the campaign. So I'm sure something is up--whether it takes four days, four weeks or four years, he's up to something.
I keep thinking of the old "Superman" slogan: "Truth, Justice, and the American Way!" To me, that's what John Kerry stands for.


Trust John Kerry.


(by the way, is it just me, or have there been fewer negative attacks lately on DU? And if so, is this a good or a bad sign???)

[Samantha]

29. I feel the air has been sucked out of the fight for the last two days

I believe it happened the moment Kerry's attorney qualified his remarks and said the election is over.

In all candor, I do not feel this is Kerry's lawyer's balloon to deflate. People at this site fighting for what they believe is right should take a deep breath and ignore that remark. And never let them know what you are thinking!

[Patsy Stone]

40. Psst...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=205149&mesg_id=205149

:)

[Samantha]

125. Interesting

You reference the night of all the WTF threads. I read some of them and went to bed late. As I tried to fall asleep, the WTFs kept running through my head. This led to the question: what's the difference between the "then" and the "now."

The "then" is defined as just a week before the WTF threads. The now is defined as the night of the WTF threads. A couple of potential answers immediately popped into my head.

The political bewitching hour is near. January 6 could be a political debacle for Bush* -- if only for worldwide pr reasons. How can he and his camp possibly allow us to embarrass him in front of the world shortly before his pagent, and while he is selling democracy in Iraq. The latter is key. It is not out of the realm of reason someone surreptiously approached Kerry's camp with the total prompting of "for reasons of national security" and "we are war" you must publicly clarify your position on whether or not the election is over. Thus, Kerry's lawyer might have made an about-political-face remark regarding conspiracy theorists to appease the Bush* camp. Obviously, his remarks were intended for Them not Us, for whatever reason.

As the date draws closer and the potential for the challenge to the slate of electors draws nearer, the more body blows Bush will start to attempt to land. I believe this escalated the night of the WTF threads, and many Dems here acted like Dems and fell over with the first punch. It was an invisible punch but it carried a huge impact.

The purpose of my thread was to encourage the fallen Dems to get up and stay up and continue the fight. Perhaps we will not succeed in staving off Bush* for four more years and installing the person rightfully elected, but at a minimum, the world will know what many, many Americans think of Bush.* That's critical. Only then will the world know he does not speak for all of us.

[kerrygoddess]

126. Touche!

There is a lot worth fighting for and the outcome may not be the rosy picture many of us dream of, but the world has got to know how people in this country really feel.

Desmond Tutu had some serious criticisms of Bush in Newsweek that everyone should read - http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/default.asp?view=plink&id=176

This is all coming to a head now, "the political bewtiching hour" as Samantha said, and it's time for everyone to stand strong.

[kerrygoddess]

33. Keep the faith Ginny!

He's up to something...

[New Earth]

34. hey now don't jinx us!!!

:D

[zann725]

138. Try watching the concession speech AGAIN...this time without the sound

I did it accidentally once, and Kerry's non-verbal gave me a whole different 'take.' I've seen parts of it since then, and each time now he LOOKS to me like someone who's CERTAIN he won.

[ginnyinWI]

144. I'll have to try that

I did tape it, but have not rewatched it since...was crying through that whole first viewing...time now to go back and really watch it.

[flyarm]

163. i saw kerry sunday night before election...

and i was a delegate so i was in vip section right next to stage and since i met kerry many times here in tampa area..i got to speak with him and he kissed my cheek, i only say this so you understand i was that close , and he squeezed my hand and said to me "we are going to do it!" He was never more confident..even my husband who is not a political junkie said he had never seen Kerry more confident and "on"..even though we could obviously see the exhaustion in the man..there were no doubts in this man...none!
my husband said several times , it was the most presidential he had ever seen Kerry...Kerry was at ease with the role of President unlike ever before...and my husband said to him..."hello Mr. President" and Kerry held his hand and smiled like i had never seen before.
Afriend of mine works with the vets here and she had met Kerry as well many times, she attempted to give kerry a vet medal, the secret service would not let her, but Kerry took her face in his hands and he kissed her forehead , and she was crying, and he wiped her tears and wispered to her...( she had lost her fiancee in vietnam and never married) and he told her to keep her medals of his and he was so gentle and sweet with her...the media was all over that for a picture..but we all knew in these final hours we were with the next president, and kerry knew it too, of that i have no doubt...none...

Kerry knows what happened, and trust me...he is too damned smart for this * /rove bunch...
i believe they are in a panic...they are destroying records now ...and have been for some time...
they don't know how or when kerry is going to hit them...
remember Kerry is a prosecutor, a war hero , a cunningly smart man, up against the class clown..and the the sly fox rove has met his match..only his match has been in the jungles of war...kerry the war hero knows how to cover the backs of his unit...and he will beat these amatures!! And he will do it with class and distinction. Remeber he is also best friends with Max Cleland...remember also that Max was part of the 9/11 commission before he resigned to work for Kerrys election...
i had the thrill of getting to be a speaker with Max at a vet kick off to the opening of early voting here in st petersburg fla..Max knew what scum this * bunch are..like none of us can even imagine!! I can not repeat all Max said to me , but i assure you ...Kerry and all those around him knew what the possibilities were of this election, they knew how low these blastards would go..and they knew what their fight would be...these are smart men..they are professionals ..they are war heros...not the lackeys we are used to in this white house..
If kerry and company have the goods...they will prevail...if they need more time...just hold on to your seats...this is in no way over ...the fight has only begun...but be aware , Kerry will be nothing less than dignified in this fight...and presidential!
fly

[bear425]

165. Thank you for relaying your feeling to us...

I feel the same way. I was privileged enough to see John Kerry three times before the election and he exuded confidence and dignity.

Once, in a town hall format, the audience addressed questions to him beginning with "Mr. President". Everyone could feel it, including John. We were in the presence of our next President.

Thanks for confirming what we all know - John Kerry is the true President of the United States and he will continue to fight for us and for what's right.

[New Earth]

167. what a great post

it's making me tear up :( i love hearing stories of people meeting him in person. he seems to have such an emotional effect on them (and obviously me, even tho i've never met him).

also, i agree with your insight about Kerry in all this....every word you just said i find true :hi: :hug:

[ginnyinWI]

172. thankyou!

Amazing post. He knows. Of course he knows. Wow---whatever happens now, it's gonna be good!

[stirringstill]

45. Kerry will not fall on his sword

Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton were "outsiders" to Washington and both paid heavily for it.

Kerry is playing chess. One of the interesting tid-bits that emerged in the MSM following the election was Kerry's deep and persistent concern over secrecy during the campaign. He took on IRAN-Contra and BCCI. He knows the forces he is challenging. Many have argued for Kerry to fight Bush head on. I think Kerry would if he thought that tactic would win. Fall on his sword today or wait to fight on more stategically favorable terrain? Conceding the 2004 election does not end a war.

[kerrygoddess]

51. Well said

Another believer who knows the man well.

[whometense]

69. Great comment.

I've been thinking the same: chess.

And after Iran-Contra and BCCI those evil forces certainly know what Kerry is capable of. What better reason to work quietly and behind the scenes. For Kerry this has been a very long war. And it certainly is far from over.

[kerrygoddess]

75. Going Upriver

The Long War of John Kerry... if ever a story told it like it was.. if ever a movie showed WHY we need this man as our president and we must continue to stand for him...

[saracat]

49. Absolutely 100% correct. Bravo. Phenomenal post!

As a former Easterner from a politically active family , I vouch for this observation. This is right on the money. I have tried to communicate this thought but could not do it this well. Thank you for this. All the nay sayers should read this and try to understand! :yourock:

[Samantha]

127. Thank you so much for your kind comment

I stayed up late last night to post these thoughts knowing full well I would pay today at work. But it was something I had been meaning to do for some time and simply could not make the time to do. Reading your reaction makes me so glad I made myself take a late moment out to share something I thought was extremely important. And I am glad it struck a note with you.

[understandinglife]

54. I find the folowing words both comforting and sufficiently motivating...

...and I've urged everyone I know, especially since early am 3 Nov 2004 to focus on just these words and then act, accordingly:

...."We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

So, its never been about what Senator Kerry did or did not do, since 3 Nov 2004; its only been about what ever I could do, no matter how small or insignificant; what mattered is that I did it.

Thus I view each citizens responsibility, each and every day, to be that of a persistent role in sustaining, protecting and, when necessary, expanding 'The Constitution.' All else flows from what each citizen does -- not from the State, not from the Union, not from folk inside the beltway -- but from The People.

The small group of folk who joined and created The Constitution and forged our American franchise of democracy are the model of how each of us should behave every day with regard to our responsibility to 'a more perfect union.' That 'more perfect union' didn't happen and now we occupy it; it is a 'living' system and without persistent nurturing and care from each of us, it will perish.

Any doubt about that -- well, just let 6 Jan 2005 without halting this massive attack on our living franchise of democracy and it won't be an inauguration on 20 Jan 2005, it will be a funeral for the franchise and The Constitution on which it is based.

I do think that Senator Kerry is likely very grateful for the massive effort of citizens -- folk like us who truly care for our democracy and truly understand those foundational first sentences of our Constitution.

We will prevail.

Peace.

"Its 7 Jan 2005: do you know who your president is?"

[kerrygoddess]

58. We will prevail

Great post, thanks!

[Senator]

64. A slightly "more graphic" version...

...here:

We The People Do Not Concede

___
www.thedeanpeople.org

[understandinglife]

68. Very, very cool!!! Thank you 'thedeanpeople' for all you are DOING!! (n/t)

[Straight Shooter]

60. I know what I would do if I were in John Kerry's position ...

... but I'm not telling. ;)

[Patsy Stone]

61. What are they hiding? n/t

[kerrygoddess]

63. Know the man and understand

[Patsy Stone]

66. Not JK

silly... THEY! I know him, I understand him, and I love him.
:)

[kerrygoddess]

67. To know him is to love him

Sappy but true!

[Patsy Stone]

71. He rocks so hard

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x166483
:)

[Straight Shooter]

70. How can JK go wrong when Patsy's got his back

The man is a winner, that's all there is to it.

:yourock:

[Patsy Stone]

73. We all have his back.

Is it time for an I BELIEVE kick??? Oh, I think it may be.
:yourock:

[earth mom]

82. This thread really cheered me up tonight-Thanks! n/t

[zann725]

139. Me too! Thanks!

Back at ya!

[Firespirit]

83. This post really made me think...

And it has helped, at least temporarily, to clarify and articulate the strange thoughts that have been flitting around in my mind for several weeks.

So I'll give it a shot and hope it's as clear to everyone else as it seems to me.

It's been hard to articulate exactly WHY I trust Kerry, given the peculiar actions he's taken, or had people take for him. There's clearly something going on here; I don't usually give absolute trust to anyone without a good reason for it. On its face there would seem to be no reason for this trust in Kerry's case.

So many tidbits of info: press statements from "representatives," legal steps, ambiguous quotes, and the occasional leak from somebody trustworthy who has a contact close to him.

What I've found is that the leaks and legal steps are ALL consistent with each other. There is a clear and unambiguous pattern. Kerry's actual words appear to be well-chosen: meaningful to those of us who have read the leaks and legal papers, and consistent with them, but not too strong for those not in the know.

It's the press releases that are, as often as not, the red herrings, that seem to contradict the other things, and that throw us into a tizzy. It seems that the leaks and legal papers tell one story and the press statements (usually not by Kerry himself) tell another. Yet the PURPOSE of them is consistent: "Keep the spotlight elsewhere. Nothing to see here." This purpose is also consistent with the purpose of Kerry's well-crafted words on those occasions when he makes a statement himself.

If this were Bush or one of his ilk doing this, I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them. That's because they would have a sinister motive for it. There is no possible sinister motive that Kerry could have. The Bushies don't want this investigated, and they have not even tried to fool anyone on it. If Kerry truly didn't want it investigated, or didn't care, then the actions and the leaks would tell that story. As it is, they don't.

It's a strange phenomenon for one as cynical as I have become, and I think that this is partly WHY I am on such a mental rollercoaster: Absolute trust is uncomfortable and risky, and I've not ever given it to anyone under such circumstances as these. Yet here it is. I have absolute trust in Kerry on this matter.

[Corey_Baker08]

84. Why Did U Trust Kerry?

This last post raises a good question. Why did u trust Kerry? Was it because he was an alternative to Bush or because he was a fresh face? Was it because he spoke a language we can mostly all relate to? Because he knows the struggle of realities in America and isn't afraid to be truthful?

My Answer is pretty simple, his compassion.I saw John kerry in person at the Dayton rally and I have never experienced the electricity of anything like that. What he was speaking of was realistic and hi words touched so close to home. Mostly of all his tone and his body languages and actions showed signs that he is compassionate about what he is talking about and he truly believes he is right for America.

If Kerry were to run in 2008, I would vote for him because he had my back this time around, I'll have his next time around.

thank-You

Happy New years

[kerrygoddess]

85. Wow! Thank You!

Corey,

His compassion overflowed and the press never let the public see that or if they did every who was ABB was too busy complaining to get it.

He understands the struggles of America, I've said that consistently for nearly 2 years now. Single mother, small business owner, I knew that he cared about the little people. He still does.

I had the luck to see him quite a few times in person and meet him, he's one truly awesome individual. Still got his back and always will!

[Vektor]

86. Psssst! KG!

It's me. "KIK"
:-)

[kerrygoddess]

90. Pssst....Vector

;)- HEY!

[Vektor]

93. How are you?

I like it here better than KOS.
Veeeerrrrrry hostile waters at times over there.

[kerrygoddess]

94. Me too

No Kos for me...

Don't forget LUTD... miss you there!

[Vektor]

96. I will definitely stop in!!

I have been a little disjointed lately, and not keeping up with a lot of my usual forums.

El depressoooo....

[Vektor]

97. Self-edit

Removing a duplicate post....

[ginnyinWI]

110. KIK and kerrygoddess

have you stopped in at the JK group yet? Lots of JK love over there!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=273

[kerrygoddess]

114. Will be making my way there soon...

[ginnyinWI]

108. hi you guys

Hi KIK it's me, "ginny" and hi kerrygoddess. I've been spending most of my blog time on DU in 2004 Election or the John Kerry Group. Nice to see you here!

[SharonRB]

105. I agree

I saw him twice in Michigan -- once in August, when I actually got up real close and shook his hand, and once at a rally in late October (I wasn't so lucky that time -- I was way in the back and could barely see him). I stood in line for hours both times -- the first time in the heat of an August afternoon. He was electrifying in person. The crowds loved him. I still don't understand why people thought he was aloof and had no charisma. I think he has lots of it. It was so obvious that he cared about people, and don't get me started about how much more intelligent he is than shrub. Why people want a president they can go have a beer with is beyond me (and I wouldn't even want to do that with *). Don't we want someone who is more intelligent than the average person, a thinking person who thinks things through before he acts? I know I do.

[zann725]

141. I don't trust or believe easily either...

but he's such an amazing person. And when the media would play-down his strengths, or others would fail to see it, or find him boring...I simply couldn't understand why! To me, he's just SO incredible...so compassionate and trustworthy. And we'd be so blessed to have him as a leader. He's such an "old soul."

[kerrygoddess]

145. He is

an old soul... and Teresa is too!

[ginnyinWI]

147. I felt the same way, zann

The stuff they would say in the media: "stiff" "aloof", etc.--I felt like I must be an alien being, having such a different viewpoint. I guess they were the aliens, not me. I'd NEVER want to have a beer with smirkboy! YUK. He makes my skin crawl. But JK--sure, anytime. I'm sure the conversation would be delightful.

[zann725]

168. The funniest thing I heard about JK being aloof...was by JK himself...

He joked one time that he was going to have his "aloof gland" removed. Too cute!

[kerrygoddess]

170. I believe he was quoting

something that Teresa said about him after his prostate cancer surgery and treatment.

[flyarm]

164. kerry goddess..i agree!!

being in fla i got to meet Kerry at least 15 times, and being a delegate for him i got up close and comfortable with "the man"...and he is indeed a man and a gentleman!!
I also started an internet group a couple years ago who has been out there educating people about 9/11 and this admin all over the internet...i have people who supported all of the candidates on the dem side, although i was kerry from the get go...
and many of my people got very frustrated over kerry not getting his message out there during the campaign...well i got frustrated saying over and over..kerry is getting the message out there..its just the media wont let you see the meesage..or they put kerry in the worst light possible...
i begged my people to go see him ..to please go where ever to see him in person..and each and everyone of them who were able to see him..came away in awe..and it took them seeing Kerry and being at one of his rallys to understand what i was saying...the media was muzzling Kerry and edwards by any means possible...

as an antidote..when i was at the convention, i was outside smoking one afternoon and i was in the media area outside the hall..and wolf (cnn) walked by me and i yelled out "nazi"..i never felt so good!!! He spun around and looked at me , and i said very politely.."yes i said it and i mean it!..i said .."you sir are no friend to democracy!" and i turned on my heals and walked back into the building with my head held high!

i had a kerry employee with me who almost came unglued...but i sure felt good!!

my only regret is that i didn't yell it and scream it..i was entirely too polite!!

fly

[Vektor]

98. I saw him in person too...

He totally exudes kindness and warmth.

[Samantha]

130. Thank you for your thoughtful response and your candor

What I love to do at DU is start threads which prompt people to think. (I don't come here to fight; I come here to contemplate the political situation). I like to try to elicit from others their true take on what is going on.

Your comments differentiating the info we obtain from leaks versus the info we obtain from the media is right on target. I think the obvious reaction to your spotlight on that point is that Kerry and other Dems have of course realized the corporate media will spin for Bush* and his plays must be signaled via other means. Strategically speaking, however, this works extremely well for Kerry since, should he claim his rightful victory, he will not have done so in a way that will alienate half the populace. That is important if we look at the Bush* example. Kerry would never want to be the kind of president Bush* the pretender positions himself to be: president to the red states; illegitimate to the blue. Kerry would strive to the President of the United States (and I will use the caps for him) and to all of its people. He would never utilize a political strategist like Karl Rove, whose mo is to play the party base to the extreme with the result that the non-base is in insurrection mode.

I hope we can continue together to observe the fallout of these recent weeks and to post deliberate comments on their meaning. In that manner, we can help keep each other grounded.

[RevCheesehead]

87. Nominated this post for homepage. Excellent message! n/t

[kerrygoddess]

91. 2nd that!

[zann725]

142. 3rd that!

n/t

[Samantha]

131. I am so glad you liked it

and thank you very much.

[kerrygoddess]

133. Your post reminds me

of something that a friend would say about JK!

[KnowerOfLogic]

88. I understand the strategy; it didn't work, and it's not going to work in

the future. Dems need a leader who will have some convictions, and not be afraid to let people know what they are.

[kerrygoddess]

92. Evidently you just don't get it or JK

Kerry has never been afraid to let people know what his convictions are... he chooses the time and the place and is not dictated by others opinions or manipulations.

[flyarm]

166. i guess you never saw Kerry??

and you were a product of what the msm was telling you??!! You are not describing the Kerry i have come to know...and respect...and admire...a man who is willing to change his mind ,dictated on intelligence and thought , and highly thought out deliberation and not media spin!! No Kerry is not the new american 2 second sound bite..he is much more..much much more....too bad americans are so un -evolved ..and so shallow in their thinking, and uninformed...
i am not saying you are ..so please do not take that inference...but a vast number of americans are so dumbed down by the b* political idiocy that they have let themselves get wrapped up in what msm tells them instead of looking at the big picture....give me the man who can speak and think and is intelligent as my president, who is smart enough to say he was wrong and change course for the betterment of the nation and world , than an ignut who can't even debate without an ifb planted in his ear and a media who corrects everything the fool says...even with god speaking in his ear!!..i mean rove...

fly

p.s....rove if you are listening..turn the volumne up on that ifb...i am sure you didnt tell b* the " peeance and freeance" of iraq...in fact, the media was sure that is not what you were wispering in his ear and they corrected it to peace and freedom...
..pssssss....and last week when b* said in his little press conference .."now get away from the media" i am sure the media knew it was you wispering in his ear, so they didnt print it the following day in the transcript..
but they knewwwww it was you!!!..so did i!!..see my hubby uses an ifb...we have known for a long time that your puppet just can't get it right with that little ear bud!!
try vintrilliquism rovey boy...it might save your nerves with the puppet!!

[wakemewhenitsover]

89. "For of all sad words of tongue or pen...

...the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'."

[livvy]

95. Trust, faith and hope

I saw Kerry at a rally here in Michigan. I know what some of you mean by the passion and compassion. It was not evident on tape, but in person it was very much there.
I know what some of you are talking about when you speak of trust. I don't totally trust very many people, and particularly not politicians, but Kerry, yeah, I do. I don't know why. At times it baffles me. It's just a feeling I've gotten from what he's said, how he says it, and I suppose from the history of the man's actions.
I have faith that this whole state of affairs will work out. It will take a lot of work from many, and it may take time. I have faith that Kerry knows a lot better than I do on how to set things straight in this political climate.
I also have hope for a better tomorrow. Hope is on the way, right?
Great post, by the way. I enjoyed reading your thoughts, as well as the many others that followed.

[s-cubed]

102. Thanks, Samantha, for quoting Molly Ivins, one of my

favorite writers. Her descriptions of the Texas state legislature are priceless.

My father was a Texan, my mother from Oklahoma, and I grew up in Ohio. I went to college in Texas, moved around a bit to Rhode Island, Oregon, Ohio, New Jersey, and now Virginia, close to DC.

The country is so "purple" in so many ways, yet there are regional differences of the kind you discuss. Those of us who know the Texas type loathe the dishonesty, but can find the chess playing Eastern type somewhat inscrutable. Those who of us who know the Eastern type may loathe it because you never know where they stand: it they'd lie once in a while, you'd know!

I just got back from a Christmas visit to our son in Cleveland. Driving around the state, to Cleveland, then Columbus, and then home, I kept seeing the place names that have shown up on DU. But mostly, I kept remembering that these folks are good, honest, decent folks: "as Ohio goes, so goes the nation". I know Ohio went with Kerry, because they don't go in for the liers. They get fooled, as all of us do sometimes, by the Blackwells and Moyers, but I don't believe they got fooled by *. Now, before someone flames me, obviously, Ohio has some bad actors!

One last thought in this disjointed post: I think Kerry knows the *'s were involved in BCCI and Iran-Contra, and he wants to bring them down for good.

[whometense]

113. I think the same thing:

Kerry does know where the bodies are buried. I think it's one of the reasons the *'s were so desperate to win. They knew heads would roll if Kerry got into the White House.

I have such a strong gut feeling that he did win Ohio - and Florida - and probably Iowa and New Mexico as well. But I keep telling myself, if I'm frustrated, just imagine how he feels?

[livvy]

116. I agree with you, Scubed.

I don't think most people are innately bad. Misinformed or uninformed, but basically "good, honest, decent folks". P.S. I'm an Ivans fan, too!

[Samantha]

132. Molly is also one of my all time favorites

It's so darn tough to be critical of Texans when that state does have great ones such as she.

But thank you for your response. I didn't think it was disjointed. I too think Kerry undoubtedly won Ohio. And as to your last statement, I have been wondering about that myself....

[zann725]

146. I think we WILL win it this time because Ohio is NOT Florida...

and that's where Bushco made their mistake. Ohio-an's are true Mid-western in being honest, and tough-to-the core in the face of adversity. Plus most of them have lived for generations in their hometowns...and if something 'not quite right' (like in Warren Co.) went on, they'll figure out what it was, who did it...and straighten it out. If they stood 10 hours in the rain to vote, you can believe they're going to see it TRULY counted!

We're going to win!

[SharonRB]

106. Which one were you at?

I was at the one at Macomb Community College in late October and at the one on August 1 at the baseball field.

[livvy]

117. I was at the October, Macomb rally.

I was waaaayyy in the back, also. In fact, I think they only let about 100 more people in after us. Long wait, wasn't it? It was worth it, though. I wish I could have met him. I wouldn't have had a whole lot to say, just a very sincere "thank you" would have been enough.

[SharonRB]

150. I also don't think many got in after us

It was a very, very long wait, but well worth it. My friend and I had a great time talking to another woman we met in line. We actually finally wound up getting seats in the bleachers in the back so we could see once Kerry came out. We were standing on the floor when Bon Jovi was performing and didn't see him at all. I'm glad I had gotten the chance to shake Kerry's hand in August because there was no way I was getting close at this one.

[livvy]

155. Wow...weird...

Your evening sounds just like mine. My friend and I ended up sitting on the bleachers, too. It was amazing how much better you could hear, just by getting up a bit. Bon Jovi sounded like puddles of notes, but I could hear Kerry just fine, once we got up a level or two.

[SharonRB]

158. Same with us

We were probably right near each other! Where do you live? I'm in Huntington Woods.

Hope you had a safe New Year's Eve -- Happy New Year! I sure hope this year is better than last. The coming events of this week could be a good indicator. I hope we start out on the right foot today with a big win in the Rose Bowl.

[livvy]

159. St. Clair Shores Nice to meet ya'! n/t

[SharonRB]

161. You, too

And Happy New Year! It would be great to find a group of local DUers and form some kind of group to get things done locally. It's nice to put faces to people!

[ginnyinWI]

112. very few politicians I totally trust

but JK is my #1. He speaks from his heart, and that's hard to fake. He believes in what he says, and his beliefs come from serious consideration, not the political expediency of the day. In other words he is the Real Deal. We're so lucky to have someone this good who is willing to enter the fray that defines politics today. There aren't many more like him out there.

[livvy]

118. Agree. That's the impression I got hearing him in person, also.

And you can't fake that, unless you're in the theatre, and I don't see that as something in his future! LOL Maybe that sums up my impression pretty well...the Real Deal.

[IndyPriest]

120. I always liked Kerry. But I really didn't GET it until

the big Philadelphia rally with Clinton et al. I was absolutely awestruck at Kerry that day. I thought to myself: god almighty, this guy actually knows what's going down. Broke down in tears. First time I had felt real hope welling up in me in a LONG time.

[delphine]

103. Okay . . . .

so now that Kerry has played the "never let 'em know what you're thinking" game, so what?

How does not letting bush know what he's thinking help get the votes counted? Or expose fraud? Or stop bush from destroying the environment, Iraq, social security/medicare, the economy, etc., for the next four years?

Perhaps the "Texas" guy can't be a political player in DC and the MA guy can't play in Houston.

Except the Texas guy IS in Washington, and in fact in charge of the entire fucking place, and the fact thet the MA guy doesn't play well in Houston (or anywhere like it) is one reason this election was anywhere close enough to steal.

So while Kerry is an expert at not letting 'em know what he's thinking, so what? It's neither here nor there.

Hiding your cards until the chips have been counted and everyone's gone home is not a strategy.

[kerrygoddess]

115. would have thought you would have understood by now!

[delphine]

119. It's too bad that

this is the one comment you had to pick up on. You've apparently missed many of my others, here and on other boards.

Bottom line is that some of us WANT to believe but find it difficult in light of different things that happen, and others just BELIEVE no matter what happens, while yet others never believe no matter what.

I ask how waiting until Blackwell et al push this to the 11th hour is "strategy".

Being mum, playing coy, riding the fence between filing the minimum paperwork while declaring you're not contesting, etc., even "never let 'em know what you're thinking" are all valid strategies that I and many others have acknowledged and supported.

It's more difficult to see the strategy in keeping quiet to the point of missing crucial deadlines and forcing this to become a constitutional challenge by the CBC (and hopefully at least ONE senator) that the repukes can then ignore (all they have to do is endure 2 hours of debate and then vote against the CBC challenge), and all but ensuring that the fight will be of the opposition party against newly "elected" sitting president.

Eventually playing possum has to give way to a real live response. Hopefully that will come soon and in time to make a difference in one way or another.

I won't bother directing you to my other posts which would make it clear to you exactly where I stand on this. Suffice it to say that your assumptions about how I see or understand things, or even how I feel about any of this, are simplistic and incorrect.

[kerrygoddess]

121. seen and heard it all

enough said.

[delphine]

149. How sad that you even bother to read

my posts.

You have no idea what I think about anything, nor do you care. You barely even know me.

You can attack and enforce on the sites where you hold sway but you aren't in charge here. I can say exactly how I feel without having to endure your personal attacks on me.

I considered your attacks quite cruel and uncalled for. Save your ire and mean spiritedness for people who hate Kerry and not for people like me who are just trying to find their way through this whole situation.

Since you've already seen and heard it all, and know exactly what I will think and say in any given situation, in the future please feel free to ignore and not respond to any and all of my posts that you see anywhere in the universe.


Thanks!

[kerrygoddess]

151. You missed the point

Do not assume that I have not read your posts here because I do not respond to each of them.

[delphine]

152. No, you missed the point, which is:

Please leave me alone. I have not gone to your precious blogs because you made it clear you believed my posts single-handedly undermined the Kerry campaign and after several weeks of blogging which I found healing after the campaign, you and another blogger decided to ambush me with an hour of attacks because I dared to mention what people were blogging over here at DU and at Kos. They were blogging "Fuck Kerry" and I was defending him.

On your blogs, you can enforce your rules about all flowers and sunshine about the election, even including living in a bubble about what other blogs are saying. Here I can blog what I want.

At a time when many of us were reeling and reaching out and trying to understand what happened, you and your buddies decided it would be fun and games to take your own frustrations out on me. Whatever your selfish reasons it was quite painful to me.

Yet I was a relative newbie on your blogs so I left. I found other places to connect with like-minded people and actually learn something by hearing opinions that differ from my own - something which you apparently cannot tolerate.

Please leave me in peace here.

THAT's the point.

[kerrygoddess]

153. There comes a point

There comes a point when people get tired of repeating the same thing over and over again to the same people.

Sorry to see that you have not grown and benefited from what people tried very hard to explain to you over and over again.

No one ambushed you. You ambushed yourself. Likewise no one blamed you for anything. That's already been said more than once when you brought up that accusation before.

Sorry you are so bitter. This threrad is not the place for that, though.

[kerrygoddess]

154. Truth is

You got pissed when people on another forum would not divulge to you their sources for inside information that they had shared with others.

I responded to your post here because you are still doing the same thing. Expecting people to tell whyor how they know something, and constantly doubting what others say.

[Samantha]

134. How does this thread suggest Kerry is doing nothing?

Because he does not broadcast every move in a public manner because the time to do so is not ripe certainly does not translate to holding one's cards until the chips have been counted and everyone has gone home. I look around and see a lot of people who have not cashed out yet, despite the declaration "this election is over" by the various so-called political authorities.

The election is over when someone is inaugurated and commences a term. And should that be Bush* the political maneuvering will not cease, it will merely take another approach.

[Malikshah]

107. Like the scene from Lion in Winter

When Philip reveals his strategy to Henry in response to a question...Henry wins without saying a word. :)

[txindy]

128. Great comparison

I've thought of that play (loved Hepburn in the movie!) in relation to this election for a while now. It's a very timely comparison. Philip was outgunned by silence. Classic.

:toast:

[stepnw1f]

148. You Mau Be Right About This

A reaction can signal an intention. A "poker Face" comes into plain site at this point. It doesn't matter whether the opponent knows this face to be the "Poker face" or not. What matters is the instant reaction of that opponent to your actions.

In plain english: who knows what's really is going on between both Bush and Kerry? And is what's going on more important than what we are doing with the time we have to speculate with?

[terry4kerry]

156. I agree and...

I do think this is a cultural and a class difference. I think Kerry handles his politics in a much classier way than Bush. This has nothing to do with money or education, but Kerry is just classier period. His behavior and actions are just more respectable. I don't think Bush is a very good liar, Long before the 2000 election I did not buy his BS. He is just so insincere, and can't even do a good job covering it up. I am shocked when people say Bush is a down to earth type of guy because I think of him as so toxically arrogant and superficial.

[Samantha]

157. I don't understand it either

Your phrase "toxically arrogant and superficial" pretty much describes him.

I am the only liberal in a large, conservative family. They are all huge Bush* proponents. For two years, my brother here in the East, who has lived all over the world, and my brother in Miami, married to a Cuban immigrant, argued chronically over the 2000 election and Bush*s qualifications to sit in the Oval Office. Most of my family think he is a good Christian man, and the suggestion that he lies to the American people is one they totally refuse to believe. Christians do not lie. The brother in Miami simply thinks he's a macho, macho man. Where that comes from escapes me.

Bush*s history is available to anyone who seriously wants to look into the type of life he has led. The record is there as to how he has conducted himself when he's been involved in political campaigns from the 80s on. Anyone who does not recognize this man for what he is must prefer to go through life with blinders.

[corbett]

169. Kerry's Campaign Promised To Make Every Vote Count

Kerry made a campaign promise on many occasions that he and his team would see that every vote counts and that every vote is counted. That has not happened in several states, Florida and Ohio being at the top of the list.

This is a complicated game and he is playing like a true champion. Never doubt his sagacity or tactics. When he shows his hand, the other side won't know what hit them!

[kerrygoddess]

171. Oh so true...

"When he shows his hand, the other side won't know what hit them!"

[ginnyinWI]

173. kick! :-)