Wait...I forgot...we're doomed and all is darkness...

[WilliamPitt]

or something.

:)

Come on, folks. Let's keep our eyes on the main tent here.

1. We have now a House member, the ranking minority member on the Judiciary, declaring a full week ahead of time that he intends to object to the Ohio Electors. Before we get to whether or not this will put Kerry in the Oval, let us remember that doing this took courage on Conyers' part. I've seen eight billion threads on this forum for the last four years wishing more Democrats would spine up. Here is one. Appreciate it, and him.

2. We have a House member preparing a full-court press to get a Senator to co-sponsor his objection. Rev. Jackson and David Cobb will be joining this effort, and Conyers will be publishing soon what may become the definitive report on Ohio election fraud. Again, this takes courage, and that report will be a very important document. The full-court press, by the way, was absent in 2000.

Now, people here are going out of their way to say this is all pointless, because either A) No Senator will spine up and stand up (although your personal activism could help change that), or B) Even if a Senator stands up, the GOP-controlled Congress will do a straight up-and-down vote and end the whole thing after the testimony.

The people saying this are probably right. Probably. George will be inaugurated in January. Probably.

But I didn't get into this fight to get Kerry into the Oval. I always believed that was a long, long shot, yet noted that if I am proven wrong on this score, everyone in here will be drinking champagne on my dime.

I got into this to reform the way we do elections in this country. Nothing is more important; we will never ever be able to fix all the other problems if we cannot even hope to elect people who want to fix what we want fixed. Period.

Now, we have a leader in Conyers. In a few days, we will have an historic report from him describing, in detail, what happened. Now, we have a chance at getting a Senator to sign onto the objection, thus shoving this fight right up the nostril of the MSM, because if a Senator comes forward, that will be UNPRECEDENTED.

It may well not happen. If it does, it will probably get shot to pieces by the GOP majority. But I see too much of great import in this thing to throw up my hands and walk away. Giving up at this point is not just a bad idea.

It is immoral. Period.

[liam97]

1. agree and said so in another thread

That some are challenging it in this open way is enough. We now need public pressure to support these actions. Also, lets not forget the efforts of the Free Press people. They have been brilliant and unrelenting.

[breadbox]

85. Will and FP

Two great national resources!!!!
Keep up the great work Will, and the same to the Free Press!

<proud to have rowed in a "Free Press" rowing vest
many years ago --- of course *that* "Free Press" was
a pub.....>

[understandinglife]

2. Will, bunches and bunches of us are with you and we have zero...

....intention of giving up.

Heck, we're barely warmed up.

Let's rock folks; our American franchise of democracy is on the line.

Peace.

"Its 7 Jan 2005: do you know who your president is?"

[whometense]

88. Agreed.

Right there with you.

[mod mom]

3. Rome wasn't built in a day-there's impeachment right?

[hlthe2b]

4. I for one,

think your attempts to help everyone keep things in perspective are both much needed and personally appreciated.

Keep it up, Will!

[intheflow]

5. Thanks, Will.

AGAIN!

So many people seem to have lost all hope, or think the only action that's any good is action that has immediate consequences. Instant gratification nation, that's what we are!

Hey, it took about 4,700 years of recorded history for western civ. to come up with democracy. We ain't getting it right in just 225 years, give or take.

Thanks for keeping it all in perspective.

And for giving us HOPE!

[KaryninMiami]

Well said, as always William Pitt!

And as I keep saying, WE ARE the Moral Majority and you are indeed correct. Giving up at this point would be immoral. Period.

[NV Whino]

6. Just e-mailed Senator Boxer... again.

One can hope.

[EFerrari]

7. Okay, we're all gonna die. Get that light out of my eyes, lol

[FogerRox]

8. Didnt Gore request that no senator challenge in 2000?

Which is like saying that at least 1 was ready to---If ya know what I mean --right?

SO its fight --fight--win --win untill the fat lady sings.
And then its still fight fight etc.

CBS Protest in NYC 51capitalmarch.com go to NJ page for details.
I will be there friday, tommmorow
[e-mail]

[autorank]

66. Yes, he forgot it was OUR election, not his (and I love Gore!).

[Pithy Cherub]

9. Caroline Kennedy Schlossberg should be handing a

Profile in Courage Award to the Honorable John Conyers, Jr. at the next soiree. The MSM is so behind the eight ball that I am not sure they will be able to comprehend what is happening here.

But Love the post Will! :hi:

[mzmolly]

10. I am one person who said "what will come of this" but I agree fully

with every word you said.

My point is this: I don't see this battle as starting or ending on January 6th. Sorry if I was unclear in my thread.

I think this whole fight has been meaningful, but I caution holding ones breath for a Senator to "save the proverbial day" on January 6th and then bitching about "The Democrats" when Senator X doesn't come through.

The battle is not about getting Kerry in the OO, because that is just not gonna happen at this point. The battle is about our democracy and that battle is not over on January 6th or January 20th for that matter.

[mourningdove92]

11. Thanks again, Will.

Just seeing SOMETHING being done is balm for my broken heart. If fraud can be proven, and I believe it can, maybe, just maybe, a few more eyes will be opened.

[salin]

12. I agree that bush will (most probably) be innaugurated... BUT

the bigger the push - the greater the questions get planted in the public psyche... and if, as they seem to be prepared to do, they continue on full frontal assualt on nearly all "protect the citizen" (social contract) roles of government leaving folks more impoverished, more beholden to the vaguaries of big industry, less healthy and with less access to health care (and to other basics like heating, fuel etc...)... those doubts will grow significantly.

This is potentially a very big part of the puzzle that could eventually lead not only to the complete emasculation (politcally speaking) of teambush - but could result in a serious turning on the republican party... back to the pre Reagan days when they were pretty much universally viewed as siding primarily with BUSINESS against the interests of citizens - but supported by those who sincerely believed (not were indoctrinated to believe the latter can shift views more easily) that business interests benefit the public - always.

[troubleinwinter]

13. In for the short haul, in for the long haul.

This is wonderful news about Conyers saying he'll object, and perhaps some others.

Today is a good day.

[jus_the_facts]

14. Bet the same was said 4 looooong years ago....when...

...the Black Caucus was askin' for just ONE signature! :nopity:

I'll PM you with my address to send me some o'that bubbly m'man...sigh! x(

...but as my absent sig line states....and is as relevent NOW as it was in his long ago time...same shit different eon...

"Strange times are these in which we live...where the old and young are taught in falsehood schools and the only person to tell the truth is called a lunatic and a fool." ~Plato~

[emulatorloo]

I am having a heart-to-heart talk w my Senator's office first thing

tomorrow. Here's to an exciting and historic Jan 6th. Thanks for all the updates.

:toast:

[Malikshah]

15. So very true-- Enough with dancing to the rulers' tunes

We will sing our protest---we will make our voices heard.

It will go down in history--it will be on record. And history will remember it.

You can tell your grandchildren that you protested. That you did not go quietly into "that good night."

These aren't windmills that we are tilting against--these are crimes against our country. We can not remain silent regardless of whether or not our voices are heeded.

[deacon2]

44. Thank you, Malikshah

"These aren't windmills that we are tilting against--these are crimes against our country."

Amen to that!

[seito]

55. I love it

The outcome matters less than our willingness to fight against any odds.

[aquart]

16. I just tried to email my senators. Couldn't get thru.

This never happened to me before. Is it pleasantly possible we've overloaded the Senate servers?

[Jo March]

41. Then fax them - www.thedeanpeople.org

Hop on over there and shoot off a fax or two. :) It's fun. All of the cool kids are doing it!!

[madison2000]

60. Its possible!

For the longest time I imagined that because of the media blackout, only a few thousand of us who frequent certain websites were onto this. But I have been talking to people here and there who don't use the internet for news and somehow THEY KNOW. Getting thousands of emails on a subject that has been kept out of the press has got to make an impression on a senator, especially when they are coming from non-constituents as well as constituents.

[TrustingDog]

17. what's happening with the supeonas for Blackwell/rove/Bush...

any other word?

[johnaries]

18. I'm smiling! You're right. And I'm prepared to keep fighting.

I'm still optimistic that at least one Senator will step up. After that, it's still a long shot a Republican Senate AND a Republican House will reject the votes. But it COULD happen, and that's what I'm fighting for right now.

But, if Bush is elected, then I will fight to have him impeached. Again, not an easy task with Reps in power in both houses.

If that fails, then I will fight for 2006 elections to take Congress back!

As I've said before, if Bush stays in office i think the Rethuglican Party will self-destruct. The Deficit Hawks and the Buchananites will only take so much of the Neo-Con bullying. We can help them sow these seeds of self-destruction. If Bush stays, I will be heavily lobbying Alexander as a constituent. Alexander has already proved he's not a Yes Man by opposing Bush on the Steel tariffs, environmental and other issues. My other Senator is Frist - yeah, guess I'll give up on him.

But, regardless of what happens on Jan 6th, IT IS NOT OVER! NEVER GIVE UP!

[tavalon]

65. Ewww, catkiller Frist!

I've hated him since before I got into this fight. He's an awful man, IMHO.

[RaulVB]

19. Exactly!!!

The naysayers are going to need a new battery of lies to tell us!

I can't wait...:evilgrin:

[Helga Scow Stern]

20. Someone's got to uphold some morals around here. n/t

[Stew225]

21. where there's a Will

there's a way? Cool. Someone with gravitas finally has sparked some hope in me, albeit regarding the long-term objective which, after all, is, uh, all.

[PennyMan]

22. Is Ohio The Only State They Are Going To Challenge

What About The Other States A Lot of Those States Had Just As Much Fraud
As Ohio.

[tavalon]

64. It isn't that fraud didn't happen in other states

but scattering the aim to far and wide will destroy the strength of the movement. Focusing in on Ohio as a most grievous example gives people something they wrap their minds around.

[Jamel]

23. THEY HAVE TO BE STOPPED

I'm sorry, but these people don't deserve another 4 years. Can you imagine how much damage they can do in the next 4 years? We won't have a country with a voting system to reform! Shut down the govt if we have to, but they need to be stopped "NOW". People who have good jobs, decent healthcare, etc, can be patient. Congress is sitting there waiting for someone else to take care of the repugs. Look, we have to practically "BEG" to get ONE senator to stand up! They're not going to let their hair get mussed!

[seito]

56. Not if we stop them

WE have to take control of our own future. WE have to hold our representatives accountable. This is not begging, this is activism. We, as Americans, have stood with our heads in the sand or up our *ss for too long. (No offense to those that have been active for many years) For the rest of us, now is the time to wake up. This is our fight.

If you see nothing but doom and gloom, come up with a solution, a workable solution. I see that what Conyers, the other House Democrats and the GLIBS have done is a fantastic start.

I have a whole lot of faith in the few champions that we have. I have a whole lot of faith in John Kerry, but that is another matter. It truly is a great time to be a patriot, armed with the truth and ready to do battle to preserve what we hold as sacred.

History will judge us too. I am in for the long fight, and I intend to stay in it until they pull the Contitution from my cold dead fingers.

[burned]

24. Onward!

I didn't know that they stood for us in 2000 until I saw it at the movies.
It took my breath away then, and it does so now.
It's a hopeful and honest thing thats being done.

[Wiley50]

25. Both houses,separately, would have to kill the challenge

and our numbers are a whole lot better in the senate.
We still have enough left to filabuster.
If they could do it for two hours then the senate could not come to agreement
and we win!

I think
But, am probably wrong.

Please tell me why?

[bleever]

50. Actually, the challenge dies unless both chambers of congress approve.

And Cheney will preside over the Senate. No filibuster in this procedure.

[mbee]

26. Didn't Conyers say he had some Senators ready to sign on?

We the people must back this effort to the fullest extent that we can and contact our Senators and demand they do their job!

[Woo]

27. No one is giving up...

I've just watched the people in this forum for several weeks -- although surprisingly resilent, they get a little nutso with these little glimmers of light and then I come in here and see a page of 'WTF' and 'OMG we're screwed' post when they're let down once again. A healthy does of reality is needed...

So basically what you said is -- we have Conyers, an old black man that you could tip over if you breathe hard on him. I know there are a lot of Conyers fans in here, I'm a Conyers fan but what we need is someone who can lead people and Conyers can't do it. Public outrage really is the only thing <I think> that will get this really moving and Conyers aint there and will never be able to get there... -

Jesse Jackson who I respect quite a bit, but let's be real he doesn't weld the power he had in 80's... in fact he has little credibility left, he's pulling out all the stops just to get the press he has gotten.

David Cobb, um who's David Cobb?

So to play Devil's Advocate we don't have much folks, face the facts -- I hope we get somewhere with what we have... these people are definitely people to support and praise for standing up for our democracy, but you have to temper the enthusiasm with reality.

Alright, sock it to me.

[tavalon]

67. Look, we can't always get the hero we want,

but we can rally around the hero we have. Rosa Parks wasn't perfect either........

[Turn CO Blue]

28. No, no William. Some of your post is a little too optimistic

for the DQ of DU.

The sky is falling don't you know? The Rethug/Neo-con cabal is TOO fucking powerful, more powerful than all of us put together, more powerful than any extremist regime in the history of the world...or God, even. Nothing we try will ever work, so why try at all. Just bend over, and hope for some lubrication, people. Here, take my advice and just let them plug you into the Matrix - you'll be happier, believe me.

/sarcasm

I for one, want to understand where the entertainment is for these people to come pissing on everybody else's hopes and speculation. If they, themselves have lost all hope, okay then, but what is the profit for them of speading this gloom and doom piss around?

In another thread, people were pissing on a 15-year old optimistic poster about Kerry08 - the first time he would be able to vote, by the way. They didn't know that part, but the tone of some responses are just like being on Freeperville. Why should he even grow up to hope or expect to vote, if he were to listen to these Debbie Downers?

So-the-hell-what if people get a little over-the-top and enthusiastic around here once in a while, and post some stupid bouncing frogs?

Drama, drama, drama. Ugh.
/rant

[FogerRox]

30. http://www.51capitalmarch.com please come to my little protest

My Mission: TARGET CBS

Join the protest @ CBS in NYC --If enough Peeps show @ CBS I will extend the efforts to other outlets, Like ABC & NBC.

Power to the People ! !! ! ! RIght On Brother KIP ! !! !

http://www.51capitalmarch.com /
[e-mail] /

[jazzjunkysue]

47. I'm in. Let's get CBS> Where and when?

Just tell me when to meet you.

[Turn CO Blue]

57. Are you protesting CBS on the 6th?

Is CBS in Times Square like NBC?

I may be able to send you 4 outstanding kids from Colorado School of Mines - one of them my son, who happens to be a bleeding-heart liberal, progressive Bush-hater like his mama. They will be in NYC staying two blocks off Times Square from Jan 5-8th.

[seito]

45. LMAO

The DUDQ spreading misery and doom, live and in living color, delivered directly to your home. At the first sight of good news, count on our members to quash it with a poise and skill unmatched by Broadway.

Eat yer heart out...

[Sandy_0]

29. Will

I've been thinking 'what if' and this is one of the ideas I've had. I wondered what you might think about the ideas.

We know that before the election, Clark and Dean were aware of the potential tabulator scam. From what we've seen so far, it's pretty clear that there were a number of film crews and observers in place to record the disenfranchisment of people in largely Democrat areas. Early voters, days before the election were already standing in line to vote. I am assuming that there was an awareness prior to the election that there would be too few voting devices in Dem areas. The failure to be prepared for these problems in order to act upon them rather than stop them would not only have been stupid, it would have been overly naive. Kerry is not naive. The Democrats, (I'm not talking about the DNC or the DLC), the real Democrats like Conyers and Waters and Jackson and others had to have some form of action that they planned on taking AFTER the election. Ok? Why after? Why not stop some of the different forms of disenfranchisement or even attempt to stop it before or during the election?


I've seen several threads at DU since the election, including a few a day or two after about Kerry and Edwards being at odds about the concession. Who has more smarts?

My feeling is that this is not just a gamble for an election. It's a gamble for Democracy itself. The media/press may be acting for both sides. Dems as well as Repubs. Every move that is made has to be carefully vetted, under the radar, as well as unexpected.

Had Kerry gone along with Edwards, the investigation would have been made to appear rediculous by the GOP and media/press. This way, regardless of how shallow the illusion may be or how transparant it may be seen to have been later, it appears to be a grassroots, injured voter, unofficially demanded investigation. Kerry has walked away (for all intents and purposes as far as the public is concerned. He looks like the flip-flopping gutless wonder that the GOP claimed he was. The SBV portrayed him as a coward.

This is getting too long, so I'm gonna shorten it. There are several possibilities that I can see.

1. There is a greater possibility of terminating the administration through the voter fraud scandal than any of the others because there is nothing that can be claimed to be classified. There will be ways of getting the information out to the public once the House and Senate challange the election. I'm guessing that it may grow to be something more, possibly leading to a mass impeachment. Once the widespread election fraud is exposed it will behove many real Republicans to cross the aisle. I can't think of any other issue that could do that. If this should turn out to be the case, it is far better for Kerry NOT to be physically present on January 6th. He has maintained his distance and would continue to do so in order to allow the congressional and grassroots demanded investigation to have more gravitas.

2. If #1 should not be the case or if it should and then fail, this way the BushRoveCo administration would be undermined greatly. Right now the press/media is having a rough time explaining Bush's low approval ratings. I'm wondering why they are continue to look at the approval ratings. Nobody would notice if they didn't.

I'll leave it at that for now. I don't know if I'm even on the right track with this idea. I'm not convinced myself. What do you think? Any other ideas?

Oh yeah. Sorry! I forgot to say why everthing waited until after the election. There had to be a crime commited before there could be a large scale prosecution of that crime. In other words, I'm wondering if the real Dems actually laid a trap and let the Neocons fall into it.

Rove was in Ohio the night before the election. There's a connection, but I can't find out what.

Also, there were "mistakes' made in one of the briefs for one of the lawsuits that would be considered basic, simple, inexcusable mistakes that left a loophole to allow for the suit to be turned down. What if those mistakes were there on purpose to nail that judge... Moyer?


I don't know whether I'm even on a valid track.

[FogerRox]

33. ive had very similar thoughts valid? I think so

I was recruited by someone in up the food chain--if you will to work in FL for the K/E Campaign-- and we talked of fraud back in Sept. that was this persons #1 worry.

[meganmonkey]

31. Now, about this champagne you keep mentioning....

How is a journalist like you gonna afford champagne for 60,000 people? Even if it's cheap champagne? Or even if it's just for the few hundred of us regularly participating in this forum?
That's a lot of champagne. Now the other question is, are you going to throw a big party and invite us all? Or will you ship it to us individually?
I just want you to think about the logistics of this. Because I want my free champagne when Kerry enters the White House!!!! :)

Seriously, though, Will, this is an incredible time in politics and I am glad you are one of the major voices of this movement. Thank you for yet another motivational post! Please believe that there are many of us here who do not think this fight ends on January 20th. No matter who gets inaugurated, our work is not done.

:toast:

[WilliamPitt]

32. 60,000 people? Pshaw.

Drinks on the house for the denizens of this forum. :)

[FogerRox]

34. Will do you think there was a senator in 2000?Didnt gore telll them no

[Coexist]

36. Do mostly lurkers get bubbly?

I am not always confident enough to post -but I do my homework (send the emails and letters that are requested, etc.)

I prefer mine dry and chilled, thank you!
:party:

[saracat]

52. Okay. Do you need our addresses, or do you fly us to your place?

:toast:

[WilliamPitt]

54. Everyone's coming to my place

[meganmonkey]

83. YeeeeHaaaaawww!!

I likes me a party!


:party:

[bear425]

68. Will, for future reference, I like the Veuve Clicquot, Grand Dame

Champagne. :party: Thank you in advance.

[bunny planet]

87. Ah yes the Veuve, or Perriet Jouet, perhaps some Prosecca.

[bear425]

92. Ah yes, the Prosecco is nice and not terribly expensive like the others

Will can easily handle Prosecco for all, methinks?!

[acmavm]

35. I was too young to know what was going on but I lived through the

McCarthy 'Red Scare' crap of the fifties, I lived through the fight for civil rights, I lived through the fight (and loss) of the equal rights amendment, Viet Nam, Watergate, the whole Nixon thing. And the one thing all those events had in common was that the change that came afterward was not instantaneous. It did not happen overnight. I took time. And hard work and the Unelected Fraud would put it. People died during those times. People were called traitors and their lives were ruined by thugs who sided with Joseph McCarthy. People took chances with their lives to fight for the right of black people to attend school and sit at the front of the bus during the civil rights era. Viet Nam cost the students at Kent State dearly. The entire government was lying to us during Viet Nam. Protesters went to jail because they felt it worthwhile to lose their freedom to protest that illegal and unjust war.

Doing the right thing does not mean instant gratification. It never has. It takes time, and people of courage and conviction. It takes hard work and the knowledge that someday, one day, it will pay off and our country will be a better place for the effort.

It is not the fact that John Kerry will or won't be inaugurated next month that should fuel our efforts. It is the simple fact that if we roll over and play dead like we did after 2000, we are killing any chance that our children, grandchildren will grow up in a country that is 'free'. This is not a fight about who gets to reside in the White House for the next four years. It is a fight to preserve and protect a right that comes down to us from the people who founded this country. The right to freedom, fair and open government, the pursuit of life, liberty, and a semblance of happiness. It is a fight the preserve the idea that all of us own a little bit of the American dream, that one of OUR children may someday be sitting in the House or the Senate. Because I can guarantee this, if we don't fight and win this one, we can damn well be sure that the opportunities of this country will be available on to a few well-connected individuals. We are fighting a criminal regime who circles the wagons around crooks like Tom DeLay and openly threaten and intimidate anyone who believes that our government should consist of honorable people, people of integrity who aren't out to line the pockets of their family and friends.

This is about what our country means to you, and what you think we should pass on to future generations.

[FogerRox]

38. Hear Hear--nicely said

My Mission: TARGET CBS

Join the protest @ CBS in NYC --If enough Peeps show @ CBS I will extend the efforts to other outlets, Like ABC & NBC.

Power to the People ! !! ! ! RIght On Brother KIP ! !! !

http://www.51capitalmarch.com /
[e-mail] /

[Amaryllis]

73. Very well said. Inspiring.

[flpoljunkie]

37. Senator Byrd, the man who carries a copy of the Constitution, is the one.

Byrd has stood up, sometimes alone, against this corrupt, inept administration. Let's hope he will stand up for democracy now.

[tavalon]

70. Damn, I remember when Senator Byrd

was a nothing Senator. Nowadays, I find I have a great deal of admiration for the man. Yeah, he's probably one of them. I hope there is more than one.

[Jo March]

39. Agreed - so has everyone here faxed or called a Senator today?

Go to www.thedeanpeople.org and send a fax or an email to the Senator of your choice. If you want to fax them all, then you just need a zip code in that Senator's state. It's simple and easy.

So, get on over there and BE HEARD.

Don't worry about Kerry. We all know that he won. The prize is larger than Kerry. It's about Democracy.

(Although I really really really really want to see Kerry sworn in.)

[jazzjunkysue]

48. Yup. Been doin it all day long. Faxed Byrd 14 articles.

[Jo March]

58. You are the woman, jjs!!

Awesome work. I'm glad that you saved some hard copy articles. You are the best!

This is for you:

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[IndyPriest]

51. Absolutely. It's going by PRIORITY mail -- because it IS a priority!

Here's the link to the text:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x212954

[Jo March]

59. Gooooooooooooooooooooo, IndyPriest, go!

You are awesome!

This is for you as well:

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[tavalon]

71. I read this and thought about sending a similar one to my Senator

Senator Kay Bailey Hutchinson. Of course I would need to change a few things. For instance:

"You are thoughtful and honorable man, and you have demonstrated time and again your commitment to an honest and transparent government." would need to be tweaked a little bit to:

You are thoughtless and dishonorable woman, and you have demonstrated time and again your lack of commitment to an honest and transparent government.

Sigh, I hate being "represented" by that bottom feeder.

I did send her a letter but it wasn't as impassioned as it could have been as it's hard to be that way knowing that she and her staffers won't be bothered to waste their beautiful minds on such stuff.

[ClassWarrior]

86. Excellent IP. Just excellent. May I borrow?

Peace.

NGU.

[deacon2]

40. You're right - it's the fight that matters most...

"Now, we have a chance at getting a Senator to sign onto the objection, thus shoving this fight right up the nostril of the MSM, because if a Senator comes forward, that will be UNPRECEDENTED."

Kind of hoping it's shoved up a lower, singular "nostril." But hey, wherever it fits!

[lostnfound]

42. This is 'time of useful consciousness'..fight for it now, or it only gets

harder.

'Time of useful consciousness' is the name of a radio program series. In each episode she defines the term "as an aeronautical term, the time between the onset of oxygen deficiency and the loss of consciousness. These are the brief moments in which a pilot may save the troubled plane."

Today we have the Internet, in 6 months we may not. Today they are not rounding up leftists or gays, later they may do so.

Winning the fight now may be the hardest thing we have ever done; but if we don't do a turnaround, it will require a real revolution by our children or grandchildren later, to recover their freedom.

[deacon2]

61. yes, lostnfound, that is scary and so true

I wasn't aware of this term, but it is apt. Every time I look at my daughters I get this ache in my heart. Such dread and wonder about what else can be done. I've never written so many god damn letters to Senators and newspapers (three published, I hope it helped somehow). And all these folks here give me hope as well. Still, I feel the plane listing and pointing down... gravity tugging at the wings. Maybe we'll pull it out yet. I've been alive longer than I would have bet on - Watergate and Vietnam still seem fresh to me - and I've never seen anything like this. Nothing.

[SmokingJacket]

43. This will be a long, long, uphill, painful battle.

I'm sure of it.

Luckily, I'm fired up by anger and a sense of injustice, and I have enough anger to last me decades. Anger is a slow burning fuel.

And I KNOW I'm not alone. Thank God for DU, or I would think I was alone.

[delphine]

46. Will, I'm not giving up but I'm one of those that is likely to say:

"So? The repukes will just listen for two hours and vote against the challenge."

Or

"Why'd they wait so long and they face repuke judges and . . ."

That doesn't mean I'm "giving up", though. I may be a pessimist - or maybe just a realist? But blind optimism isn't helpful either.

Frankly sometimes I fear for those of us who are so hungry for any morsel that we see meaning where there is none - every word from Kerry is picked apart and your contributions are slammed for "not telling us anything new" or basically not being meaty enough. Keith Olbermann rides this love/hate rollercoaster if he dares to take what an attorney says at face value (we may see or say something here that he can't possibly justify discussing on the air).

As for myself, it depends on the day - some days I'm all about the geniuses that Kerry and his team are to have played this so well that the recounts will go forward without repuke blowback. Other days I'm all about how I can't see any strategy at all - it's taking too long, deadlines are passing, MSM is ignoring it, judges are repukes, Blackwell's getting away with it, etc.

Most days it's somewhere in between. Cautious hope.

Never is it "I give up", at least not for more than 10 seconds after which I'm back looking for the latest Will Pitt entry here or scouring Kos or Smirking Chimp for good discussion and nuggets of wisdom.

[KoKo]

49. This GESTURE....has "Great Emport" ....yes it does...yes it does...we

should look at this for what it is...(I Googled to find out what happens if a Senator will support a House Member)...and it amounts to a two hour session break where (unless there's PROOF..which Ohio Supremes says there isn't) the vote continues. So all of us hoping and tuning into C-Span hoping for Kerry to WIN that day will be very disappointed.

The main thing is: That Conyers has hopes of getting ONE SENATOR on board...and making a STATEMENT..that move's things beyond what we here saw that went on with "Bush vs. Gore" and that scene in Moore's Docu...

So, what we are seeing is "baby steps...baby steps."

But for SO MANY OF US...it won't be enough...therefore Walt Starr's predictions have "some merit." (Even though I've been pumping air into "Cynic by the Side of the Road Walt" on your original post) I DO understand that Walt is closer to the truth than us jumping up and down declaring a Kerry Victory.

Still...The "Process" and the "Hope" of getting these fraudulent voting machines and elections looked at by the "average American" is worth the "Exercise in Futility," by Conyers and that "Lone Senator" ...my gut tells me it will only be one..and it will be Byrd...(I'll send you that bottle of Champagne on Me...Pitt) but...it's always going to be about these "Baby Steps."

And, it's sickening to me that after all this corruption, lies, deceit and cronyism ...that it comes down to our Dem Party wants to walk these little steps to the "gallows" every time.

Whatever...it will be that "Smile" you talk about Will..Not a "BIG BANG." Serendipity.......

[Left coast liberal]

53. Very true, Will. We've got to keep our heads here!

All let's all stop shooting the messenger, Ok?

Rock on, Will!

Cheers!

:hi:

[s-cubed]

63. Will - thanks for the encouragement. Personally, I'm

betting on Tecumseh and the Redskins curses.

:bounce:

[autorank]

62. ***Voting Rights is the Issue***

That's what this is about. Voter suppression is very much a race crime. Blacks are targeted. The Democratic Senators need to ask themselves two questions: (a) is the case valid ? and (b) given the answer YES to that question, can the Democratic Party ever expect serious black support if a bunch of rich white guys/gals sit on their collective asses again? One of our party's greatest moments was passing The Voting Rights Act. Lets reaffirm that contribution!

Stand up Durbin;
stand up Boxer;
stand up Byrd;
stand up Salazar;
stand up Hillary;
stand up Schumer;
stand up Obama;
stand up Lahey;
stand up Feinstein;
stand up Kerry!

...and BTW, stand up Hagel and tell us the whole truth abou Sequoia!

[KaliTracy]

69. Yes, it is immoral if we just give up

My son is going to bed in a few minutes... then I will be writing many letters.... (maybe the same letter for the most part, but for many people)....

have you written your letter yet? Have you called anyone? Conyers is putting his neck on the line for us. We are asking someone from the House and Senate to Stand up For Us -- but are we going to Stand up For Them?

[fooj]

72. It is our moral responsibility...

to protect and defend the constitution! We MUST continue to challenge the authenticity of the 2004 election regardless of the outcome!!! Fighting for the integrity of our democracy can only be a winning proposition!!!!!
HOWEVER...I still HOPE that the man who BELONGS in the White House will take up residence on Jan. 20th!!! I'm so tired of "cheaters" constantly being REWARDED for their LACK OF honor and ethics!!! Leadership isn't about being a bully...

it's about LEADING by example! :hi:

"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."-Orwell

CHEERS to the seekers of truth and justice!:toast:

WHAT ARE THEY HIDING?????:think:

[lonestarnot]

74. Who said anything about giving up?

[keepthemhonest]

75. we are holding you to this one

"But I didn't get into this fight to get Kerry into the Oval. I always believed that was a long, long shot, yet noted that if I am proven wrong on this score, everyone in here will be drinking champagne on my dime"

and where are we having this great big party at. We better strt planning it.

[jdog]

81. Quick!

Take a screen shot! ;)

[cyberpj]

76. "...better that we feel we did all we could to object."

People say they're in it for the long haul and understand how long Watergate took and understand the level of corruption and still freak out and start pointing fingers everywhere at every problem.

We've got to learn to take a deep breath after the punches and have the next step ready in advance.

And if we can't do this -- it's all so very much better that we feel we did all we could to object.

PJ


Quote of the Day

"I have yet to see any problem, however complicated, which, when looked at in the right way, did not become still more complicated."

Poul Anderson

[Generator]

77. Still dreaming in America

"Let us not wallow in the valley of despair. I say to you today my
friends - so even though we face the difficulties of today and tomorrow, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the
true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal."

[bread_and_roses]

78. I agree and thank you for updates (n/t)

[catlawyer]

79. Spine Up

I am going to send Conyers a SPINE card:
http://www.backbonecampaign.org/page.cfm?ID=67

And if my WA Senators don't stand up for him, they will be receiving a SPINELESS citation:
http://www.backbonecampaign.org/page.cfm?ID=64

[bunny planet]

80. Absolutely agree, Conyers is an awe inspiring statesman for doing this and

standing up for us in this way. I hope he gets more than one Senator to stand up with him. I truly think he will.

btw, What is a full-court press exactly? An official public announcement of some sort?

[WilliamPitt]

90. An official announcement, media coverage, an impending report,

and a public letter to 100 Senators.

[lthuedk]

82. This shouldn't be Dependant on one senator standing.

Democracy depends on all democratic senators standing. You either believe in democracy unreservedly, or not at all. To deny or dilute what has happened to our country is delusional. That's the media's game.

Enough time has passed since November 2. We get the picture. Now, do our leaders?

On January 6, the Democratic Party either stands or perishes.

[BernieBear]

84. I've called Conyers office several times thanking him

for taking the lead on this. We should all thank him!!! BB

[CementDude]

89. It's all POINTLESS - unless...

John Kerry walks up to a podium.

It really comes down to that. You keep ignoring this little fact, but in the end, all that would have really mattered was that Kerry didn't fight.

If Conyers was working Kerry, or had a meeting planned, I'd be interested.

Is that in the works?

[NVMojo]

91. And RIGHT ON, again, Will!!! Conyers is da man!!!

this is a victory in itself, as you mentioned, that we have someone in the Democratic Party with HUGE CAJONES!!!!