A new and important political term. (defectors)

[LoZoccolo]

asspipery: 1. The act of defecting from the Democratic Party on the basis of one issue, to the detriment of several others. 2. The act of pretending that defecting from the Democratic Party will not be to the detriment of several issues. 3. Defection from the Democratic Party as a substitute for activism. 4. Having a big pipe rammed into your ass out of which you speak.

[BattyDem]

1. LMAO!

:toast:

[seabeyond]

2. bah hahahahah you made me feel better

and i am not evena damn democrat and i am being a more loyal democrat than a lot that say they are democrats for life. hm. i wonder

[FreepFryer]

3. LOLOLOLOL - Asspipe Reform Now!

[madison2000]

4. Is it related to

asswipery?

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[LoZoccolo]

5. Yes.

It is very closely related to reducing the Constitution to toilet paper.

[NurseLefty]

6. On the basis of one issue alone?

--Failure to lead those who tirelessly fought for Democratic victory?
--Failure to play the political field groomed by republicans (in other words fight fire with fire)
--Rhetoric to suggest that fundamental principles held dear by most Democrats are less important than "moving to the right with the rest of America"
--Being utter pussies for not joining LONE SENATOR Boxer to voice protest over voter disenfranchisement

How many more do you want?
I've been a Dem my whole voting life. I'm not alone in the disgust I feel. Give me reason(s) to stay a Dem besides being "the lesser of two evils".

[LoZoccolo]

7. Defectors are baby-killers.

That's a good reason. People who voted for Nader are partially responsible for the Iraq War.

[LoZoccolo]

8. OK OK that's an exaggeration.

Still, they should have known there was a difference. Really, you should find out. Watch the debates again if you have to.

[NurseLefty]

10. Or here's another angle - how about not voting at all?

Think about all the young Deaniacs who got involved for the first time, who went on to volunteer for Kerry. What do you think they will do? Perhaps they'll vote Green. More likely, they'll stay at home. Like we don't have enough of that already.
The Dems have to offer more than "we're the lesser of evils" to unite us. Bear in mind that I raged about people supporting Nader.
But now, I'm angry at the Dems. I'm angry at Kerry. Where is the leadership? Where are the principles?

[Pooka Fey]

9. Were the Greens and Libertarians defectors for being the only organized

political entities to push for the recount in Ohio? Weren't there plenty of us democrats willing to donate to and praise the glibs for getting that to happen? The democratic party asked me for contributions to a recount that they didn't even push for!!! Thank God I didn't give them a dime - because that money would be sitting in the DNC war chest right now. When the glibs ACTUALLY filed for the recount - I gave up to my limit to make that a reality.

I don't think today is the day for DU democrats to be throwing stones at the third parties, (the ONLY opposition parties IMHO), after watching so many congressional and senate democrats side with the republican party - leaving Senator Boxer and the Congressional black caucus to swing alone in the wind.

The democratic party will lose many lifetime members for their actions today - despite being called names by angry DUers. Conscientious objectors to the status quo need representation. We don't have that representation in the democratic party.

[GreenPartyVoter]

11. Oh, bringing up the Greens won't help you with LoZ. No love lost there

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[Pooka Fey]

12. Huh? I must be missing something.

on edit-- OK I see what you mean now.

[NurseLefty]

13. Good points - esp about who carried the water in Ohio. n/t

[LoZoccolo]

14. "only opposition parties"

Did you miss the debates?

[Pooka Fey]

17. I can't afford cable - so no, I didn't see the debates.

While I appreciate HUGELY the courage and conviction of Senator Boxer, to whom I've already sent a thank you e-mail, and the congressional black caucus; I had really hoped to see the members of my democratic party stand together and present a unified front in opposition to the republicans. The issue was VOTING RIGHTS for god's sake. This, as we all know, did not happen.

[LoZoccolo]

19. They were on network TV.

Plus, good, solid, consistent support is what will give the Democrats backbone. If they can count on a certain base being consistent and expanding - and it's us that has to demonstrate the consistency and expand - we become the backbone. It takes much much much much more than throwing a fit. The Republicans have done this, and this election they basically counted on their base, because their base goes nowhere else. The religious right has a party more in line with their interests, the Constitution Party, and yet this party got few votes.

[Pooka Fey]

21. I feel let down by the democrats, except Barbara Boxer and the CBC.

People keep saying we Dem's (Me for 25 years) need to stick together, and not split the progressive vote. That's why I've stayed in the democratic party, and never before thought about leaving it.

But it seems to me that democratic party is leaving ME, not that I am leaving the democratic party.

The democratic party didn't support disenfranchised voters in Ohio, primarily African American, young college aged new voters, and low income voters. Thats our base! Who is going to represent that group of people if the democrats are willing to stand by and DO NOTHING (with the exception of Barbara Boxer and the black caucus). And debating on the side of election reform, but not backing it up with your vote won't cut it for me.

This is not just whining. This is a valid political question. Maybe it will take the loss a significant portion of democratic members before it will get through to "THE PARTY". I'm not saying that I'm leaving the party, but I'm not ruling it out either. I want an explanation from these democrats who left Boxer and the CBC take the heat by themselves.

[LoZoccolo]

22. On what condition did Barbara Boxer support the resisters?

It was if she got a lot of emails.

We need to continue to watch our politicians' backs and do what we can to spread awareness of our issues. They can't do it without us. And nothing will get done without them.

[Pooka Fey]

23. Agreed and I e-mailed her to request her support.

I'm not an authority on this, but I think some European nations organize blocks of opposition parties to go up against the party in power. Perhaps this will help progressives feel more represented if we do that here. What will kill the progressive cause is the feeling that our election officials aren't listening to us. Barbara Boxer is a hero because she stuck her neck out. The evidence of fraud is overwhelming, the evidence of voter suppression is overwhelming; yet she had to stand alone as a democrat in the Senate. I don't get it. I've heard the issue that democrats are concerned about their public image - well, that's not why we elect them. This is a good debate - it's good to get this out in the open, but just because some democrats will leave, maybe not me - I don't know yet; it doesn't mean that those who leave will no longer be progressive voters. People like me who are frustrated by the democratic party are not the enemy here.

[meganmonkey]

16. I guess I live in backwards land

because until this last election, I have hardly ever voted for a Dem, and never for a Dem president - I am registered independent and tend to vote Green. This past year I decided I had to rethink my principles and I voted for Kerry. Thanks to DU, I have a ton of respect for people who consider themselves Dems, and thanks to the events today, I have a newfound respect for the party as a whole - while I've been forcing optimism the last couple weeks, I really didn't think a Senator would sign, let alone all those Senators & Reps would stand up and speak in support of Boxer et. al. Considering what my opinion of the Dems was a year ago, I am starting to have hope for the party.

Guess I must be completely nuts :shrug:

[LoZoccolo]

18. Actually, by the same kind of logic...

...why would I want to support the Green Party, which was in bed with the Libertarians, who serve extreme corporate capitalist interests and a dismantling of the mechanisms of social justice? I could say that that's my one issue from which I defect from the Green Party efforts, being in bed with ultra-capitalists.

[LoZoccolo]

15. Also, asspipery was a factor in the McGovern loss.

He lost support due to his handling of his vice-presidential nominee. It is not good to try to attract people succeptible to asspipery to vote for you, because you never know when they'll pull the rug out from under you.

[leanin_green]

20. It wasn't just one issue, it's the LAST issue.

I've been a Democrat for all my life. Gradually I've been watching the party move from the left to centrist to what it is becoming now.
Bash me all you want, but the sellout is now complete. Money and power is all they are concerned about. It's a two party system and they'll do whatever it takes to maintain their share. Fuck em! This day I am a new revolutionary and resister to the established status-quo. My fight will be against both of them and the bullshit they call representative government. I will make it my mission to speak out against all of it. I'm an American for Americans, but not THIS America.

[OneBlueSky]

24. 5. Defection from the Democratic Party as an act of . . .

supreme sanity in the face of overwhelming corporate control of both political parties and no realistic prospects that the situation will change in any meaningful way . . .