DU Kerry bashing, thread links compendium! (NOT)

[New Earth]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x291012

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=290505&mesg_id=290505

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1505660

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1505573&mesg_id=1505573


hey look, another one!! http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1505866


all this in one day? on a day where he is actually doing something significant? ENOUGH ALREADY!!!!!! i think we get the point now, the same people posting over and over how sad, disappointed, let down, hate hate hate whatever about Kerry. It is time to move on and focus on CONSTRUCTIVE issues and actions to make change in the party and the country. I understand that some people are mad or frustrated, I have been too at times, but this is seriously getting out of hand.

[WilliamPitt]

1. Copy and paste

this response when you see one of those threads:

pzzzzzzzzzzzzcheeeeeeeeeeezzzzzz

Works for me.

[burythehatchet]

2. did you make YOUR point?

[New Earth]

7. i believe i did

[Darknyte7]

52. I believe this too shall pass...

But hell, what do I know... I've only been posting since November 30th. :-)

[angrydemocrat]

20. KERRY! KERRY! KERRY! KERRY!

http://209.150.59.148:8080/dontphoto/herbert/image/image6.jpg

[Goldeneye]

23. Good Show!

[BigBearJohn]

3. I agree 10000000%

[WildEyedLiberal]

4. Some people are also chronically whiny and malcontent

But what can you do?

I second Will Pitt's advice. "Bah" also works.


"Kerry sucks, blah blah blah, he didn't fight, blah blah, I hate him forever and ever or at least until the end of recess, blah blah blah..."

Bah.

[WilliamPitt]

9. pzzzzzzzzzzzcheeeeeeeeeeezzzz

is just the perfect response. :P

[NVMojo]

5. soon the Democrats will receive an official award for being the best

party that eats its own alive while the enemy sleeps by with all the bootie. Idiots. Not a one of them put their lives at stake the way Kerry did in this vicious election. Time to grow up.

[CalProf]

44. Yes indeed. n//t

[kitkat65]

6. No kidding! What a waste of time.

If people are only interested in instant gratification, they're not going to find it in politics

[cindyw]

8. I am starting think all of this is a very old fight here on DU.

Many old Dean supporters who now hate Kerry because the coup by Bush succeeded, believe that by attacking Kerry, Dean will become more popular for chair. Imagine if there was this much Dean bashing. This whole place would go nucular! But Kerry bashing, that is old hat. SOS

[rox63]

11. I like both Dean and Kerry

Does that make me a mutant or something? :shrug:

[cindyw]

12. I think it does. One of the Derryiac types!

[sandnsea]

13. rotflmao

Derryiacs. Oh that's funny!

[cindyw]

15. good to see you again. Gettin' hot in here these days for those like us.

[Botany]

10. Wyoming had 106% voter turn out.

Kerry should have put up a fight! End of Story. He did not. Even after he promised to do just that very thing. I live in Ohio I saw and heard the fraud. It was nationwide.
I worked for Kerry .... I feel used.

[geomon666]

17. Shhh, just get over it ok.

Yes he used you and everyone else but uh.....Hey he's fighting now! Woohoo! Took him awhile but hey, democracy needs a vacation every now and then. Change is just around the corner. Everyone hold hands. :eyes:

[New Earth]

19. i have an idea

why don't a few of you get together and start up an anti-Kerry group? i think that would be great. a place for like minds to come together and spew all the hate they have for the man, no disruption from others that disagree! :think:

as a matter of fact, i'm thinking of petitioning to get one up FOR you!

[geomon666]

25. I'm not anti-Kerry.

I'm anti-Appeaser. And that's all the Dem leaders have done in the last 4 years and will continue to do these next 4. We both agree on the same thing, just differ on the way to go about it. I'm glad Kerry spoke out today. The philosophy being "Better late than never". But I'm not going to sweep under the rug the fact that he abandoned his supporters during the election and was absent on the 6th (which he probably wouldn't have voted for anyway which is the real problem).

[tommcintyre]

53. "...start up an anti-Kerry group?" Or how about pro-Kerry? NOT!!!!!!!

As I explain in the post below, we need ALL the help we can get to bring about meaningful election reform - in time! Your clear attempt to divide this forum into "Pro-Kerry" and "Anti-Kerry" factions really sucks!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=291042&mesg_id=291571

This is the second time in a few days it has been necessary to ask this question Faye: "what's even the point of a thread like this?? What good does it do except sow doubt..." http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=284409#286211

Once again, you have caused people who are really on the same side (wanting meaningful election reform) to explain/justify a relatively minor issue (and even turn against one another in this case) - instead of concentrating and working together on THE MAJOR ISSUE!

Keep it up Faye, and, to quote you, "...i'm thinking of petitioning to get one <a special forum for your "special" posts> up FOR you!"

[New Earth]

54. we already have a pro-Kerry group

:hi:

why are you accusing me of this shit? the point of the thread is STOP BASHING KERRY AND START WORKING TO MAKE CHANGE. i don't understand how much clearer that can be.

and i'm glad you disagree with my threads. it charges my energy to keep going to try to wake people up. there is really no reason to attack me personally, and that is the second time you've done it.

[tommcintyre]

60. Your actions speak so loudly I can hardly hear what you are saying

"...point of the thread is STOP BASHING KERRY AND START WORKING TO MAKE CHANGE. i don't understand how much clearer that can be."

It would be much clearer if that's what you were actually doing. There is a saying: "Your actions speak so loudly I can hardly hear what you are saying." <My thoughts on what's going on here are well-explained in posts #46 and 57 below - so I won't repeat them here.>

"...going to try to wake people up." You keep trying to "wake people up" like that, and I'll keep calling it for what it is.

"there is really no reason to attack me personally, and that is the second time you've done it." I spend way more time reading here than actually posting. I actually read at least the subject line of nearly every post in this forum, every day; and the two threads of yours I have commented on frankly stood out like sore thumbs. Again, I have explained why in detail in both threads, so I won't repeat it here.

I also find it interesting that you have tried to misconstrue my critique/alert to others about the two threads as a personal attack. I will save further comment unless/until I see a pattern emerge. For now I will surmise you possibly are taking this too personally? Remember, in the DU rules is says you need to "have a thick skin" (or something like that).

[Laurab]

67. Is there a pro -Kerry thread?

If there is, I'd like to find it.

[New Earth]

68. yes there is a John Kerry Group forum

i started it.

and i was BEING SARKAZTIK ABOUT THE ANTI-KERRY forum, as some people dont' know sarkazzzm when they see it :hi:

oh, here's the link to the Kerry Group: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=273

hope to see you over there sometime :hug:

[tommcintyre]

71. Gee, I guess a lot missed your sarcasm, and you didn't try to fix it then?

Like the immediate response to your suggestion they "go elsewhere"?

"I'm not anti-Kerry."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=291042#291126

No one should feel forced to justify their "Kerry" position here. That's divisive.

[New Earth]

72. ok

[tommcintyre]

69. Here ya go.

John Kerry Group
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=273

The purpose of the new DU Groups is to provide like-minded people with places where they can discuss issues free from disruption from those who disagree. The theory was that if we provided members with "safe zones" where you were not being forced to constantly defend yourselves, you might not feel quite so victimized by DU, and you might not feel the need to be constantly fighting with other people.
<more.>

[Laurab]

70. Thanks, both of you! NT

[New Earth]

55. keep it up?

are you threatening me in some way? what exactly is it that i have done to you?

[tommcintyre]

61. What are YOU up to Faye?

It's kinda interesting that you would try to twist primarily your own words into a threat???

"...as a matter of fact, i'm thinking of petitioning to get one up FOR you!"

Were YOU threatening the people who didn't agree with you that you are trying to SHUT UP? I certainly wasn't threatening you, and frankly, I don't think any "reasonable" person would interpret it as such.

"...what exactly is it that i have done to you?" Its what is being "accomplished" in these two threads that is being questioned. Again, its pretty obvious from my posts that it couldn't be interpreted as anything you could've done to me that motivated me to write what I did.

So now, Faye, I see a pattern here. Could it be you are trying to set this up as a DU rules violation so I might hesitate to comment freely on any of your future posts?

That's NOT happening.

[angrydemocrat]

32. KERRY! KERRY! KERRY! KERRY!

http://209.150.59.148:8080/dontphoto/young/image/image8.jpg

[TayTay]

21. I see the correlation

Kerry didn't do what you wanted him to do in Ohio. He didn't more vigorously pursue the election irregularities. Okay, I see your point of view, though I have reservations on it.

59 million or so people (that we know of, maybe more) voted for Kerry and the views he espoused during the election. Who do you propose carry those views forward into this 109th Congress? I disagree profoundly with *'s policies and his nominees. I am glad that Kerry showed opposition today.

I am a Mass voter, so Kerry actually does represent me and my views. I am very sorry that he didn't win. Too bad, so sad, but you still have a day job. I expect him to do it or resign and we can elect someone else. I still like the guy and think he can be effective. *, more than any other President I can remember, needs to be reminded that he doesn't have a mandate, that almost half the country thinks he's wrong on Iraq (and so much more.) I think Kerry did a good job of representing my views in the hearings today.

[Botany]

26. Yes I want him to be an aggressive Senator ......

....... and to oppose bush's agenda but to me (other folks can and will have different
thoughts on the matter) 1/6/05 was the day Kerry and other democrats should have all stood as one. Than the media would have had to look into the election or
at least make a little show of it. Irregularity is not going poop often enough. This
was an ongoing criminal enterprise to defraud and steal votes from all of us. Call it by name fraud.

When are "we" going to stand up and and fight? Kerry promised a fight and not a
post election being a strong advocate in the Senate.

but :grouphug:

I just saw and heard too much here in Ohio not to feel like the democrats are acting like beaten spouses going back to their abusers with .... "I know he loves me and he will change." sort of attitude. Remember the other side thrives on weakness and us
playing nice .... I am sick of it.

[TayTay]

28. What do you propose they do now?

Seriously, and calmly, now that John Kerry is just another card in the Senate Dem deck, what would you have him do? I saw the initial stories on MSNBC and some of the other media sites and he got some serious press. Should he use that to go forward and oppose the Boy King and his odious policies or should he quiety fold up and go home? The reality is that Kerry is there becaue the good people of MA provided the back up plan and he still has a day job. What would you have him do with that day job?

Should he join with Barbara Boxer and push for election reform? Should he stop pushing for this because he didn't think the Jan 6th protest would overturn the election? He may possess different views than you on what happened and what actions he could take as a result of that action. Fine, reasonable people differ. But if we don't find actual elected officials with the legislative ability to introduce legislative change, then exactly who is going to do this? Rethugs? I still intend on 'pushing' Kerry to take up the cause of election fraud. He seems to be interested. What would you have him do, going forward from this date of Jan 18th?

[Why Syzygy]

47. My Kerry vote

was identical to my Bill Clinton vote.

No more bush.

One worked.

One didn't.

[angrydemocrat]

22. KERRY! KERRY! KERRY! KERRY!

http://209.150.59.148:8080/dontphoto/herbert/image/image6.jpg

[New Earth]

24. lol

good pic

[roseBudd]

31. If Cliff Arnebeck and the Glibs could not prove fraud how was Kerry

suppossed to? Knowing a crime took place and proving it are too different things. Kerry is a former DA.

[merh]

58. Thank you for such a reasonable post!

:hug: It made me feel better just reading it! :hi:

[ebayfool]

38. Okay now, wait for it ...

pzzzzzzzzzzzzcheeeeeeeeeeezzzzzz



I know, immature of me!
sowwy

[angrydemocrat]

43. KERRY! KERRY! KERRY!

[merh]

59. May I copy that?

I sure would like to use it sometimes!

Thanks! :evilgrin:

[ebayfool]

64. Surely - sometimes only a good gif will do! n/t

[merh]

65. Thanks!

:hi:

[Why Syzygy]

14. Didn't read the links

won't read the links.

What do you expect? You give no reason to cease and desist from 'bashing' someone who utterly failed us.

Have an argument there?

[lavendermist]

18. Pzzzzzzzzzcheeeeeeeeeezzzzzz. eom

:eyes:

[ebayfool]

39. LOL !

[Der Blaue Engel]

45. How 'bout

Cuz it's pointless, boring, divisive, nonproductive, ugly, and demoralizing?

[Why Syzygy]

48. What is?

Progressive?

Being a WINNER?

Demanding excellence?

It seems to me there is a POINT in expecting our elected REPRESENTATIVES to REPRESENT.

No?

[il_lilac]

16. Criticism is easy

We're all disappointed, but there's too much work to do to divide now. Or let's just give the country to the repugs on a silver platter. After all they paid for it.

[seito]

27. Perfect n/t

[sparky_in_ma]

29. Kerry is responsible

for there being no WMD's in Iraq. Also the high cost of health care. A source close to Mr. Blackwell also attributed ****'s win in Ohio not to Election fraud, but to Kerry voting for **** 175,000 times, by absentee ballot. OMG, he didn't even stand up for himself.

Thanks Faye:thumbsup:

[LeahD]

30. To the malcontents............

Ya-w-w-w-n.


:boring: :boring: :boring:

[KittyWampus]

33. We Must Destroy The Democratic Party To Save It

Democrats who refuse to shoot their wad prematurely and on demand are traitors.

Only Democrats who commit Kamikaze assaults on the GOP are honorable.

[seabeyond]

34. i am too old and tired and raising two little ones, cant i win the

race being the tortoise, please

[ebayfool]

41. I've seen you fight, seabeyond. You can sit down, put your feet up ...

& still win w/ease! LOL

[seabeyond]

42. lol lol lol i have been enjoying your posts too n/t

[Botany]

35. Tora! Tora! Tora!

Long live the Boxer Rebeliion.

[pacalo]

36. And why do they bother to enter this forum in the first place?

It's either displaced anger -- taking their anger out on those who are hopeful of the future, taking it out on Kerry because of WhatsHisFace's corruption & audacity; or

Their aim is to disrupt &/or poison those who are as fragile-minded as they are.

[fearnobush]

37. Kerry is intelligent: CNN: US Intelligence Needed.

<>

[Melissa G]

40. Great Pic! LOL! n/t

[tommcintyre]

46. CAUTION! This divisive issue can be used to damage our momentum!

I'm seeing a classic "divide and conquer" gambit, regarding the pro verses anti-Kerry issue! Alienating against one another, and/or driving off one "side" or the other will only serve to weaken us, and our mutual cause of meaningful election reform.

I have noticed MANY people in the Kerry-related threads today have expressed a mixed view such as, "I don't like what he did before, but I'm glad for any contribution ANYONE can make (including him)." Some of the same doubt his motives, but they're still glad if what he said helps. For many others, understandably, this is a highly charged issue - pro or con.

All this is to be expected, considering the complexity and importance of the issue. What I find very troubling is the choice by some, who have represented themselves to be more emotionally "neutral", to purposely (and clearly unnecessarily) "fan the flames", and even imply that some in this forum should "go elsewhere"! Frankly, I must wonder about the true motives of such a person/people.

We should expect to see more of this type of thing as time goes on. In a way it's a good sign. It means that we are viable, and even potentially "dangerous" regarding the issue of meaningful election reform. I suggest we give each other extra space to differ in opinion on these relatively less important isues, and keep our eyes on our mutual prize.

[Why Syzygy]

49. Right

If we go to lock-step what is the difference from the right-wingers.

They are so disgustingly blind to imperfections.

"Kerry" is not the "savior" anymore than gwb is.
He is one MAN.
He failed.

Doesn't mean he can't win next time. But let's tell the truth. K?

[tommcintyre]

66. Yep... They say the truth will set you free,

I think before we can solve this election reform issue, the realistic truth (pro and con) will have to be faced for ALL parties involved (GOP, Dems, MSM, etc.). Frankly, what I have seen here (and elsewhere), indicates that many (certainly not all) are NOT ready to be truly objective yet. This issue is just still too emotional for many.

Unfortunately, we do not have the luxury of time since 100% HAVA mandated evoting by 2006 will most likely permanently doom our Democracy if the necessary election reform doesn't occur by then. We need all the help we can get, so please "snap out of it" both "sides" ASAP.

[burythehatchet]

50. I got it ..... lets call ourselves "dittoheads" , that way

everyone will know that we can't think for ourselves.

SO let's review, people like me, who actually quit their job to work for Dem candidates, should:

1. Accept anything that John Kerry does at face value
2. Accept that he conceded
3. Accept that he did not stand with Barbara Boxer
4. Delight in the fact that Kerry wants to complain about election fraud after the electoral vote.

I worked for Kerry's campaign because I felt, and still feel, that he would have been a truly great president. I still support him in his aim to take down the fascist govt.

It will just me a little time to call myself a dittohead. Hope that's OK with you.

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

51. DU isn't freeptardville, where all dissent is seen as pathological.

Soon we'll be developing our own surveys to see if we qualify for political paranoia treatment:

Why don't you think Kerry's perfect?
Why can't you just get in line with the rest of us?
Can't you see it hurts the democratic party for us to disagree with each other?

I hate to disagree so much with posters I really admire, chief among them Faye, but a free flow of discourse, which includes discourse about how often "our" man has been lame, is necessary not only to emerge as a stronger party but to ensure democracy as a whole still works.

So, yes, Kerry dropped the ball in more ways than one. Yes, at the very minimum, he dropped the ball by holding back so much cash his campaign just had to have (especially in that last weekend before the election), and yes, he let us down by not standing to fight fraud earlier. Would I support him again? Yes. But if we don't hold him accountable--or hold any other canadidate accountable--why should they change?

[alexisfree]

56. we are suppose to fight the enemy....

and we are eating our own people. x(

[tommcintyre]

57. EXACTLY! But sometimes it isn't clear who the "enemy" is.

I AM sure who the enemy is NOT! It isn't someone who disagrees with our point of view (be it pro, anti, mixed Kerry or anything else for that matter). Freedom of speech and diversity of opinion can only make us stronger.

Unfortunately, this thread encourages neither. In fact, its message is clearly telling one point of view to SHUT UP! The effect is to intimidate diversity of opinion - not encourage it. And, as a secondary effect, "...we are eating our own people" as you put it. Have any people with legitimate points of view been "convinced" (intimidated) into "going someplace else" (as was clearly suggested in an earlier post in this thread)? I hope not. That would clearly be serving the purposes of the "enemy", would it not?

So who IS the "enemy"? Again, often it's not so clear. But sometimes it is. The stakes are very high (after all, we're battling for the very survival of Democracy, and we only have until 2006 to "win"). Any thread that CLEARLY diverts/deflects/diminishes from the main goal is counterproductive. The key word is CLEARLY. Look for "straw men" (discussed in the link below).
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=284409#286211
<The straw man here is so many people have had to explain (justify) their "Kerry position" at all since Kerry is NOT the issue - meaningful election reform IS!>

Which brings me to one last important point that seems to fit in here (discussing who the "enemy" is). Newer DU members should be periodically made aware of the fact that, besides disrupters, there are "deep trolls" that prowl here. There have been excellent threads on this in the past, unfortunately I have no links. Briefly, a deep troll is someone who infiltrates a forum/board, builds a rep as a "friendly", but occasionally subtly (sometimes not so subtly) tries to subvert the purposes of said forum/board. The easiest way to spot 'em is to ask yourself this question: "Why was this thread/post made (motives)?"

Suggestion, never call them on it. For one, you may be wrong - just look for patterns. Also, it's against the board rules for good reason (see the sticky in this forum). In the heat of differing opinions, many are too quick to call each other "freeptards" and the like. (Yeesh! I saw this happen in the pro/anti Kerry threads yesterday!) Instead, if you see a "questionable thread", just call it for what it is (question it's results).

[pbartch]

62. I totally agree with you. I wish the Kerry haters would get stifled.

---A line from Archie!

[tommcintyre]

63. Ah... those were the days! Archie would be right at home today

Little did we know, those of us that are old enough to have watched this show pre-reruns, that we would have "a man like Herbert Hoover again". Also, I guess that, considering the current environment, it shouldn't be surprising that even some progressives have forgotten that diversity of opinion is what made Democracy great? <"I may not agree with you, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.">

Next time I want to "stifle" someone who's opinion differs from mine, I'll try to remember Archie.

Thanks for that. ;)

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Short Version (Aired at beginning of episodes)
"Boy the way Glen Miller played, songs that made the hit parade, guys like us we had it made, those were the days, and you know where you were then, girls were girls and men were men, mister we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again, didn't need no welfare states everybody pulled his weight, gee our old Lasalle ran great, those were the days!"

Full Version
"Boy, the way Glen Miller played. Songs that made the Hit Parade. Guys like us, we had it made. Those were the days! Didn't need no welfare state. Everybody pulled his weight Gee, our old LaSalle (a car) ran great. Those were the days! And you knew where you were then! Girls were girls and men were men. Mister, we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again. People seemed to be content. Fifty dollars paid the rent. Freaks were in a circus tent. Those were the days! Take a little Sunday spin, go to watch the Dodgers win. Have yourself a dandy day that cost you under a fin (five dollar bill). Hair was short and skirts were long. Kate Smith really sold a song. I don't know just what went wrong! Those Were the Days!"

http://www.allinthefamilysit.com/lyrics.shtml