Mark Crispin Miller rebroadcast on C-Span.

[Kurovski]

In a talk about his book--"Fooled Again: How the Right Stole the 2004 Election & Why They'll Steal the Next One Too (Unless We Stop Them)"-- which was hosted by the University of Massachusetts. It's on late, but you might could tape it. On Monday, April 24 at 2:30 am EST.

More info at DUer Viva_La_Revolution's Book-TV thread (Thanks Viva! :hi:)


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x990536#990909

[Gloria]

1. The Q & A was really good, too!

[Kurovski]

2. And if any ER darlin's happen to stop by Viva's thread,

please consider recommending it. At the time of this post, it needs but one more "R" to make it to greatest. Thanks!

[kster]

3. All ya gotta do is ask .. done ... nt

[Kurovski]

4. Thanks, kster!

You put Viva over the top. :hi:

[Duer 157099]

5. This is a great talk -- question

I have a question for anyone who saw it already. It was taped on 3/31, and in it he said that "in about a month" an "explosive" article will be published by a very big name.

Has this happened yet, and does anyone have any further info on what he was referring to?

[EFerrari]

13. It hasn't to my knowledge The only likely weeklies I can think

of that might do this are The New Yorker or The Nation. Newsweek or Time or US New & World Report don't seem like the right venues?

[Stevepol]

6. A great talk. Every DU-er should buy his book Fooled Again and ...

you could also send off to C-Span and buy the tape of this talk (I did. It's about $29.95 I think) or tape it off this new re-showing. He really nails the issue and even offers some good psychology as to why the far right has decided to steal American democracy.

If America makes it thru this assault on its very foundation and is able to regain its democracy, Miller will be one of the patron saints of the country, right up there with Tom Paine I think. And he's had a harder time of it than Paine did in a lot of ways, being blackballed by the press and the people afraid for their jobs and their security, etc.

Nothing really changes, just the circumstances and the names. The same issues keep recurring and will always recur. Democracy demands a constant vigilance, a constant aggressive desire and determination to make sure it happens.

[EFerrari]

7. Is anyone watching Mark right now?

:kick:

[garybeck]

8. what do you think about

MCM's focus at the end, on the christian fundamentalists driving the republican party, more than the big money interests? I sort of disagree. I still think that money is behind the war, money is behind the energy policy, basically everything they do. they only play the religious card because it's convenient and it gets them votes. but in reality you can tell that they're not geniunely religious because if you look at what they do, not what they say, they break every rule in the bible anyway...

[EFerrari]

9. I was just knocked off the net for an hour or so.

I tend to agree with you, Gary. On the other hand, the corporatists have a fiction they tell themselves so they can sleep at night, and this evangelical one seems to be ready to take off the shelf

It's likely that these criminals are on a continuum. Some of them at one end must be aware of using religion to manipulate markets. At the other end, some of them must be aware of using markets to further their "religiosity".

What I agree with in Mark's presentation 100% is that these people are not rational.

[garybeck]

19. Right, I was a little disppointed

at his assertion that the fundamentalists hold more power than the corporate interests. it is my believe that money drives everything they do. they play the religion card solely for political purposes. and as you say, it helps them sleep at night. but in reality it means nothing at all when determining policy, not to mention their everyday actions.

I'd have to watch both of them again in more detail, but I think the first MCM CSPAN interview (from 11/05) is probably better because there isn't the long tangent on relious fundamentalists at the end. I would rather see more discussion of election fraud.

I almost think it's damaging to give creedence to the idea that the religious folks are calling the shots. We don't want people to believe that. It's not true.

peace

[Kurovski]

14. I watched it, and couldn't believe an hour had gone by so quickly,

then the question period.

I have a few thoughts on this that I'll post later. (I'm in a mad rush right now, but I KNOW everyone is dying to hear what I have to say;-)) but it was tremendous.

[EFerrari]

15. It is tremendous. I watched it twice yesterday.

:)

[Kurovski]

17. I would like to see it again.

And of course the book itself will be read.

it was almost unreal to hear someone speak at length on the whole matter. (and on the TEEVEE!) There is so little spoken aloud or at length about election fraud that to hear it--actually hear it--does wonders for good of my mental health.:-)

[EFerrari]

18. Mine, too! MCM and Debra Bowen have been a much needed

reality check.

[EFerrari]

10. "This was not a plot by Thomas Jefferson and his snooty

French friends." lol

Mark on the separation of church and state, and the black or white thinking that characterizes the religious right.

[EFerrari]

11. "This is part of a paranoid, projective mentality." n/t

[Land Shark]

12. MCM is also blogging at markcrispinmiller.blogspot.com

[Kurovski]

16. Miller mentioned that Kerry's early concession was demoralizing.

And if you remember DU during those days, it most certainly was.

While I was not a Kerry man, I got behind his campaign when he was chosen as our candidate, and even defended him in those horrible days after the stolen election of '04.

I believed that he was actually about the business of protecting our votes, as he promised. I took the man at his word. But when he came out and said any fraud in Ohio would make no difference in the outcome (a questionable statement at best) My esteem for him dropped, for it was suddenly about him and not the disenfranchised voters.

When the GAO report came out and provided the perfect support for Kerry to speak up in defense of the voter, he again broke his promise, and that was the end of the road for me and Senator Kerry's presidential hopes. I no longer trusted the good Senator. And as Miller reports, Kerry even lied about his "thumbs-up" conversation with Miller on the topic.

Kerry is a great man, but for me, his failure to defend the voter--as he repeatedly promised during his campaign--was the great mans one fatal flaw. And it was fatal, for he proved to me that he was incapable of standing up for the most core principles of Democracy itself.

Miller said that the early concession in '04 by Kerry was as much a travesty as the stolen election itself. Even from the point of view that Kerry backed off from an important promise: that the very real psychic pains and disenfranchisement in Florida 2000 would not be repeated. He simply, and for whatever reason, lied about that promise.

But it's worse than a broken promise, he stood down in defending Democracy itself.

Please, please...Gods, God and Goddess, give me Al Gore in '08.

Amen. Ramen. Over and out.