IMPORTANT -- FUNDING THE RECOUNT - The Facts

[Eloriel]

I am seeing SO much misinformation running around about this, and all kinds of websites being posted for donations. This is an effort to clarify, from what I know about things.

By all means, donate wherever you want to, but I really think it's important for people to understand where their money is going.

It was DUers who started this whole ball rolling -- IdaBriggs who discovered the NH anomalies, and hedda-foil, a co-founder of the National Ballot Integrity Project who, with some of her colleagues followed up by many faxes to Nader by DUers and Randi Rhodes' listeners, got Ralph Nader to request the NH recount just before last Friday's 5 pm deadline.

Hedda and her group and Bev Harris of BBV.org subsequently formed a 527 specifically to help fund these recounts. Why? Because neither the National Ballot Integrity Project nor BBV.ORG could LEGALLY contribute to funding the recount themselves. Therefore, any donations to either of these two groups will NOT go to funding recounts -- but donations to the 527 specifically WILL.

Donations to BBV.org WILL go, however, to other important work because they're sending massive FOIA requests all around the country.

You can also donate to the Green Party candidate (Cobb) who is requesting a recount in Ohio, and/or to Nader's campaign funds who is requesting the recount in NH, but be advised that your funds COULD concievably be used for other things as well. Don't know that they will be, but they might. Let's try this scenario: let's say Ralph accumulates hundreds of thousands for the NH recount, but it only costs $80K. He would be under no obligation to refund anyone's money and could use the excess for another campaign, for this campaign's debts (if any), and I think he could even contribute to others' campaigns from his campaign funds (I think -- not sure).

I therefore recommend that anyone who wants to specifically help refund the recounts contribute to the 527 set up by DUers who got this whole thing rolling:

Link: www.helpamericarecount.org



Additional Info:


*****Want to Help America Recount? The website is UP!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1344801
Link: www.helpamericarecount.org

***** Donations for the Recount" Fundraising Kit > > >
(Use this to send to your friends -- enormous amount of info -- pick and choose what you need)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x37833


BACKGROUND:
DU INFO ALERT: Why Recounting in New Hampshire Could Save Democracy
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2617155

Need Some DU Help w/New Hampshire Stuff!!! (URGENT)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=26802&mesg_id=26802

RALPH NADER MAY SAVE THE WORLD!!! (Its NOT Over in NH!) Updated Fri 8:15p
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x25116

Nader requests NH vote recount. (Did we just make a huge blunder?)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=965216

Nader, Cobb and Badnarik may all be willing to look into recounts in Ohio
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x26843

[shraby]

1. Thanks Eloriel n/t

[high density]

2. The Green party allows you to donate directly to their recount effort:

http://web.greens.org/c/cobb/supporters.cgi?function=donate

Make sure to put "Ohio Recount" in the Notes field.

[rockedthevoteinMA]

27. did you see this?

"the green party in concert with the Libertarian party has raised at least $15,000 towards an estimated $113,000 filing fee for a recount of Ohio ballots in the Presidential election as of 8 PM Thursday evening RAW STORY has learned."
"All of it is coming in small donations" Bobier said. "I think it's just starting to get traction."
http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=415

Wow. Congrats people!

[donachiel]

3. That website makes me nervous

It's not even a complete site. There are too many pages under construction and too much that can be left to speculation. My money went to the bbv directly on their site and to the ralph nader site.

[Eloriel]

4. BBV can't fund the recount -- if you want to help fund the recount

donate to the Help America Recount 527.

Of course, as I said, BBV.ORG is doing other good and important work, but the recount has a finite ending point, and the money HAS to be available for that or they won't happen.

This is why I posted this.

[troubleinwinter]

5. Thanks...

I had been becoming more and more confused about where to send donations to specifically fund recounts.

"I therefore recommend that anyone who wants to specifically help refund the recounts contribute to the 527 set up by DUers who got this whole thing rolling:

Link: www.helpamericarecount.org"

[Helga Scow Stern]

6. Thanks. I will donate there again right now.

[Ladyhawk]

7. Thanks! Nominated and Linked!

http://ladyhawk.landmarkwebhosting.com

[mak3cats]

8. Kicking...

[Crispus Attucks]

9. Thanks, just donated...

[mcg]

10. I donated again.

[althecat]

11. kick

[Eloriel]

12. UPDATE -- from hedda_foil

FUNDING THE RECOUNTS -- See this before you donate
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=201&topic_id=2617#2633


UPDATE:

Right now, Nader has a check box under the donation amount on his contributions page to specify that your donation goes only to the recount. You can safely donate directly to him IF you check that box ... and we really need to show good faith by bringing some contributions in that way. Unfortunately, his General Counsel won't take contributions any other way because they haven't set up an official recount fund. They're using a separate bank account instead. It works, and the money is segregated from general campaign funds, but it brings in all kinds of FEC restrictions that wouldn't apply if they had set up a separate recount fund.

Nevertheless, to get NH recounted, we do need to get people to donate directly into the recount account there. Not much has come in because, let's face it, only Nader can get his own (non-Repub) donors to donate, and Dems have a very bad taste in their mouth about him. I hope you'll donate because this is OUR fight Nader is fronting here.

If you can't bring yourself to put your money in the Nader recount account, even though it's directly for the BBV cause, OR if you want to help fund the recounts in Ohio and Florida, PLEASE contribute to http://www.helpamericarecount.org .

Thanks, all.

hedda

[jasmineblue]

44. I just donated to Nader

@ http://www.votenader.org/contribute/index.php They do have a box to check for it to go to the recount. I also donated directly to the Ohio Green Party yesterday via PayPal to [e-mail]
These villains must be stopped!:spank:

[Florida_Geek]

13. grrr I thought my credit card would have a rest

:evilgrin:

OK $100 to Link: www.helpamericarecount.org :)

[KAZ]

14. Notes in the key of C to both Nader and Cobb.

And if current wine consumption continues, HelpAmerica is next. :)

[sandnsea]

15. thanks

Gave a little, hope it all adds up in a hurry!

[Blue in the face]

17. Different accounts

Or to cover all bases, you could split up your donations to a few different sources. I've given to the http://helpamericarecount.org and I'm just waiting for the funds to transfer into my paypal account until I give to the Greens, the Libertarians and Nader.

If this recount is going to happen, it's going to take all of us staying unified and supporting everyone's causes. No one wants to see Bush, regardless of what party you belong to. Other parties are putting themselves out there on the front line in order to demand a fair election and I am happy to support them, especially knowing that their victories may end up being a Kerry victory.

I know this sounds preachy and I apologize, the last thing we need after the election is more preaching. But I hope we keep our eye on the big prize, not get hung up about labels or political parties and bring together all of those with true American values to take down the Bush Cartel.

[newyawker99]

38. Hi Blue in the face!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Blue in the face]

59. Hey NY'r

Thank you for the welcome. I just saw it. And you're right, it does mean a lot to the newbies to know that they are welcome here...

[mak3cats]

16. Donated - every little bit helps...

[Gregorian]

18. Thanks..........

Just gave some green stuff to Ralph.

Go Ralph, go!

[Carolab]

31. According to Ida Briggs Nader's funding is in place

You need to give to the Cobb-Badnarik effort or www.helpamericarecount.org or www.blackboxvoting.org

[futurecitizen]

34. I don't know who Ida Briggs is..

and I'm sure she's wonderful, but I just spoke to Marcia at the Nader campaign and only the *initial filing fee* is in place. They need somewhere around $50,000 to fund the actual recount. The initial recount has begun, but don't leave the guy out hanging - he's already in a ton of debt from the presidential run and fighting *us* in courts across the nation. Well, this time he's on our side.

FC

[imaginary girl]

19. kick

[melwoods]

20. kick

:)

[illuminaughty]

21. kick

this is important. I've given to BBV and Nader New Hampshire
Come on fellow DU'ers.

I also contributed to Free Speech TV which is amazing. They, of course, are covering this everyday. Guests like Thom Hartmann of Commondreams.com and Bev Harris was on a couple days ago.

[Sideways]

22. Bump

:kick:

[Sideways]

23. Kick

[Lil]

24. Ray Taliaferro had caller call to give Rand's linksfor contributions -

He has listeners streaming world wide! (like me in Australia) Yay for caller!

http://www.kgoam810.com/

[Sideways]

25. Kick

[Shameless Agitator]

26. kick!

I feel like I'm in an excruciatingly well-written suspense movie--just when I thought Nader had lost all credibility... look! up in the sky!

[Lone_Star_Dem]

28. kick

[Lone_Star_Dem]

29. kick

[althecat]

30. kick

[mzmolly]

32. Thank you Eloriel

;)

[futurecitizen]

33. More information about the Nader recount effort

Okay, I just called the number on the Nader site to determine the status of the NH recount. I spoke to Marcia and asked whether or not the recount was fully funded or not, how much it was going to cost, etc. The details, generally, are:

1. It costs $2k to start the recount. They have this $2k and the recount has apparently begun. The campaign will receive word of the preliminary results sometime next week. The indications of this initial recount will help determine whether or not they will continue with a full one.

2. It is estimated to cost somewhere around $50k for the full recount, but this is just an estimation and it may cost more or less. They do not have these funds as of yet, though they're aware that some other groups are collecting money on their behalf (Randi Rhodes, for example). To date however, they haven't officially received any monies from these groups, so they can't actually rely on this happening.

3. She told me where the contribution page is, at votenader.org. She mentioned (and I just checked) that there is a checkbox that will designate your contributions for the recount effort. She also asked that, if possible, contributions be made for the regular Nader effort as well to help pay down debt. Considering that Ralph is doing what Kerry is not, I'm going to help him pay down his debt as well. A partial redemption, in my book.

I've also met with the lawyer handling the helpamericarecount effort, as he lives in my local area (SF Bay Area). I'm probably not qualified to say it's all on the up-and-up, but knowing where he works and actually having met him gives me a measure of peace about contributing to that effort as well.

FC

P.S. Just musing here, but I think that the new task-force style forums that they're going to be implementing today are going to be very useful for increasing effectiveness in this effort. I'd make that it's own topic, but I can't post new topics yet, dammit. ;)

[Silver Gaia]

35. Done.

Wish I could've given more...

[uhhuh]

36. Very important

kick

[life_long_dem]

37. Just donated $50 to Nader re-count

http://www.votenader.org/
make sure you check the box for recount donation.

I also donated $50 yesterday to
www.helpamericarecount.org

I know it may not sound like much, but I was laid off from my job a few months ago.

I still think it's more important to recount the vote than it is to feed my family. Kidding of course.

Hope everything works in our favor.

[bleever]

39. Kickin'

[greenmutha]

40. Kick! n/t

[bleever]

41. Kick, because the recounts are the ball game now

[greenmutha]

42. Kick! n/t

[greenmutha]

43. Kick! n/t

[greenmutha]

45. Kick! n/t

[greenmutha]

46. Kicking

:kick:

[greenmutha]

47. bedtime kick!

:kick:

[Nordic]

48. thanks for this post, Eloriel

:loveya:

[Lil]

49. kick

[googly]

50. Sounds great but how will the fast approaching dead line of

dec 13 when the electoral college certifies election affect
these efforts? That is my worry.

[vanboggie]

51. Kickin it

:kick:

[Lil]

52. kick

[vanboggie]

53. kick

:kick:

[greenmutha]

54. Good morning kick!

:kick:

[greenmutha]

55. Kicking! n/t

[TheNonPanderer]

56. Kick this mutha up n/m

Kick

[greenmutha]

57. Kicking! n/t

[greenmutha]

58. Kick! n/t

[sunnystarr]

60. Kick (nt)

[greenmutha]

61. Kick! n/t

[greenmutha]

62. Kick! n/t

[greenmutha]

63. Kick! n/t

[Lil]

64. kick

[Lil]

65. kick n/t

[Lil]

66. kick

[Hekate]

67. Thanks for the links, Eloriel/ kick

:kick:

Hekate

[bearfan454]

68. kick

:kick:

[greenmutha]

69. Kicking! n/t

[SoCalDemocrat]

70. thanks!

Can we get a breakdown of how much of our donation goes towards the recount if we contribute to the 527? As opposed to administrative costs, overhead, etc.

[YellowDoginthehouse]

71. Eloriel, you're a hero!

You have worked so hard on this...:loveya:

Thanks!

[SoCalDemocrat]

72. I donated $20

Get it done!

[greenmutha]

73. Kick! n/t

[greenmutha]

74. Kick again! n/t

[Lil]

75. kick

[Lil]

76. kick

[Lil]

77. kick

[Straight Shooter]

78. Somebody please update on the status of the funds

I will donate on Monday.

Hey, Eloriel :yourock:

[kayell]

80. kick

[illuminaughty]

79. kick

[Helga Scow Stern]

81. kick.

[Lil]

82. kick

[Lil]

83. kick

[nofurylike]

84. thank you. kick n/t

[Zhade]

85. kick

kick

[Lil]

86. kick

[New Earth]

87. update on the funds

they got all the money they need for the filing fees....

they are asking for another $100,000 for miscellaneous costs - they have over $55,000 donations so far for miscellenaous


you can see everything here: http://votecobb.org

[Ladyhawk]

88. Kick!!! nt

[Lil]

89. kick

[JD Lau]

90. Kick...some important info

[DianeK]

91. Thanks for posting this...

I gave 50.00 2 weeks ago to blackboxvoting.org and will give another 50.00 tomorrow to helpamericarecount.org. I plan on giving 50.00 every 2 weeks. The goal on helpamericarecount.org is 500,000 and they only have 115,000 as of 7 pm last night...

Time to kick this up to high gear..where are all the deaniacs? we can do this

[Riceman1974]

92. Will someone please explain to me...

How Kerry will be inaugurated on Jan. 20?

Florida has already certified. That state is done. Kerry's only "chance" is Ohio. But how will Kerry make up the 133,000 vote deficit in Ohio?

Here are the facts:

1. Provisional ballots - There are 155,000 prov. ballots. We're already reading reports that 10%-40% of these ballots are being thrown out, depending on the county. You have to assume at least 20% of these will be thrown out, taking that 155,000 down to 125,000. And these ballots are spread pretty evenly throughout the state (meaning, the prov. ballots are roughly equal to 1%-2% of the total vote per county).

2. Spoiled ballots - There are 92,000 "spoiled" ballots, meaning there is no clear vote for President. These are the infamous punch-card ballots. These will be counted only during the recount, which will happen AFTER the vote is certified by Ohio on Dec. 6. Contrary to Florida, Ohio has very strict standards for what counts as a vote with these ballots. The "chad" must be separated (perforated?)in 2 places for it to count. 1 chad or "dimples" will not count. Based on these rules, you have to assume at least 10% of these will be thrown out, taking that 92,000 down to 83,000.

125,000 + 83,000 = 208,000
Bush margin = 133,000 (136,000 minus the 3,000 mistake votes he got in that one county)

By my math, Kerry needs to take 82.2% of these prov. and spoiled ballots to win (171,000 to 37,000 = 134,000 plus for Kerry), assuming even the recount is finished before Dec. 13.

How in the hell is Kerry gonna take 82% of these, when these votes are spread throughout the state, a state that basically went 50-50?

[Carolab]

94. Florida is not "done".

It can still be contested for 10 days after certification. That leaves until the 25th.

[pig.]

95. HO HO HO MERRRRRRY CHRISTMAS eom

[Lil]

93. kick

[boi1946]

96. Just donated again

[Lil]

97. kick