Vote Flipping 2006... Its happening AGAIN

[Kip Humphrey]

Shades of 2004:
From VotersUnite.org, vote flipping from Democrats to Republicans and missing Democratic votes have been reported in 7 states during early voting:

AK: Jacksonville - ES&S iVotronic
AR: county not given - ES&S iVotronic
FL: Broward, Miami-Dade, Palm Beach, Sarasota - ES&S iVotronic, Sequoia Edge
IL: Cook (Chicago) - Sequoia Edge
KY: Calloway - Hart InterCivic eSlate
SC: Charleston - ES&S iVotronic
TX: Jefferson, Collin, El Paso, Williamson, - ES&S iVotronic, Diebold TSx

ALL reported incidents favor Republican candidates at the expense of Democrats.

http://www.votersunite.org/electionproblems.asp?offset=40&sort=&selectstate=&selectproblemtype=

[still_one]

1. THEN DON'T CONFIRM THE VOTE, until you are SURE, YOUR vote is registered

Nothing can be taken for granted, and WE CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, NOT CONFIRM our vote, until we are sure it is registered properly. If people have problems, get an attendent. If there are still issues call the DNC

There is no excuse for NOT having your vote registered correctly this time, we know what is happening

[katinmn]

4. heh, you're talking to the man who organized nationwide protests

over vote-flipping and voter suppression in 04. Many of us us worked with Election Protection. I stood outside a polling place with three lawyers and many groups from MoveOn to ACT had emergency squads stopping by. We were armed with 800 numbers to report election issues. We might think we're prepared but the RNC is counting on chaos.

Last time the pollworkers threw up their hands. It is man against machine, long lines, frustration. Hate to be pessimistic but this is going to be a very long election in some states.

[still_one]

7. There is no choice at this stage of the game

[katinmn]

2. Are we surprised? They will do what they can to retain power.

51 Capital March.
I see the site is up and ready.

First we document, http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2576577
then we resist.

Kat

[RussBLib]

3. If that is happening again

...and I have no reason to doubt that it is, our Congress needs to get off their collective asses and ban all electronic voting machines until they can all be independently verified that they will not do this sort of bullshit in the future.

It used to be pretty hard to cheat and steal the election. These machines are making it easier and easier, and we as a people should not put up with these faulty machines until we can be absolutely certain they will behave.

Hell, use the machines, but put a paper receipt on it, verify your vote, drop it in a ballot box, and then recount EVERY FUCKING PRECEINCT until we are confident in an accurate outcome.

[texpatriot2004]

5. kick nm

[leftchick]

6. how comforting

I voted on ES&S IVotronic. :cry:

[papau]

8. Because we know it's random error, must be only Dems noticed because

Dems have better memories of how they voted?

Damn - every election judge interviewed in early voting where this took place was refusing to admit planned machine error/bias to favor GOP.

[slackmaster]

23. If a Republican had a problem, would he or she post it here?

Not hardly.

[papau]

26. Post it anywhere? - Do we have reports of GOP to Dem changes by the

machine per any one at the GOP?

I did see the "machine that had a mind of its own" that was taken out of service BUT NOT SECURED BY LAW ENFORCEMENT or even put in a secure - really secure - place.

[slackmaster]

28. Computer users often attribute major malfunctions to "a mind of its own"

I can't answer your question about the GOP. It's a good question, and over the next few days as their loss of control over Congress sinks in they may lower their standards for what level of report is sufficient to get them to demand investigations. While they have been secure in power, they wouldn't have much of a stake in it. Since Democrats have been underdogs for a while it's understandable that our threshold of credibility would be lower than theirs.

It's human nature for people to be defensive and blind to their own mistakes, blaming the machine or the people who programmed it. I've been supporting people who use computers for a very long time, and I don't see any reason to think voting machines and their users are any different.

Let's see some hard evidence of repeatable vote-flipping, something you could present to a District Attorney or the FBI and get something beyond shrugged shoulders. Occasional anecdotes delivered via hearsay aren't good enough evidence to even begin a criminal investigation.

Out of tens of millions of people voting in a country where there are still many millions who have never used anything more complex than a telephone, I would be very surprised if there were NOT hundreds or thousands of undocumented, unproven reports of "mindful" misbehavior by machines.

Let's see the videos, or if not then let's at least hear testimony of knowledgable, trained poll workers who have observed repeated incorrect output for a given input. A handful of credible reports would have a very strong influence on my viewpoint.

[papau]

30. Most of your points are a given - no one could disagree - but I

do not see the same lack of computer sophistication in the people I know or observe that you seem to see as you suggest that without a demonstration machine we must assume people to be "defensive and blind to their own mistakes, blaming the machine or the people who programmed", causing them to report machine "error".

I believe these voting machine "errors" are simple to describe events that are being reported - reported by smart computer wise people.

When a computer is vote switching or "behaving badly" it should be secured and checked. I am upset that this is not happening more often - albeit the next step - checking the code -seems a legal problem.

The 04 computer that was secured and later checked via repeated operation was found to have a constant 1% bias in the reported vote totals - perhaps "poor programing" of the report function. I can't see how the add operation could be a victim of "poor programing". A report screwed up by bad machine code or assembly is not unknown, but even with the higher level languages of today the kids can still screw up a report function - but it would be unlikely - IMHO - to be done by accident. I note that the code was never published that had the error that was the 1% bias report function, because the code is proprietary and could not be looked at legally by the election folks.

Ya got to love that last fact. :-(

[slackmaster]

31. Open source code would solve that last fact

Thanks for the information.

[In Truth We Trust]

9. K&R Hand Counted Paper Ballots NOW!

[Kurovski]

14. Yep.

I agree.

[AikidoSoul]

10. What?! Ask the Repugs to change voting machines? Huh?

Change the system to one that is actually fair? The present system is so good for keeping these fuckers in power....why would they change it? Because we demand it? Get real....

:crazy:

:crazy:

:crazy:

:crazy:

:crazy:

:crazy:

:crazy:

[ArmchairMeme]

11. Sad to hear this

Can these vote flips be evidence in court - this is election fraud and against the law.

BUT we have to deal with repugs who believe in an alternate universe where they don't have to follow the laws as written.

I say confront them in court and hold them to the law!

Bring back paper ballots!

[progressoid]

12. Time to crank up them lawyers!

[slackmaster]

22. Indeed, and what is the very first thing those lawyers will ask for?

Evidence, meaning something stronger than hearsay.

[pa28]

13. I'm looking forward to seeing this on You Tube.

There is an army of voters with handheld video this time catching them in the act.

[dchill]

15. K&R

[truedelphi]

16. Thanks Kip

Would say more by way of appreciation - but I am off to vote (for what it is worth!)

[slackmaster]

17. Any photos or videos yet?

n/t

[EFerrari]

18. Add CA 11 to the list. I don't know which city or which machines yet. nt

[Kip Humphrey]

19. Add PA: Cumberland County - ES&S iVotronics vote flipped from Dem to Repub

[jazzjunkysue]

20. According to Mark Crispin Miller, in his book, it's never the other way.

There are no known instances of a republican vote switching to a democratic one.

It's in his book, "Fooled Again."

So, if it's just a machine error, what kind of machine always makes the same exact error in the same exact way?

We're supposed to believe that it's a random occurrance.

In order to believe that, we'd have to be as dumb as a republican.

[slackmaster]

21. Still not convinced there is a systematic bias in the machines

If a Republican observed his or her vote switching to the Democratic candidate, would he or she report that to Mark Crispin Miller? No, I think that person would probably go to the RNC or a Republican member of Congress.

If a DUer had that happen, would it get posted on DU? (What DUer is going to admit trying to vote for a Republican?)

We're supposed to believe that it's a random occurrance.

When you look only at reports from a non-random audience, you're not likely to get a complete picture.

Would anyone like to go read freerepublic.com to see if there are any complaints of Republican votes getting switched to Democratic?

If someone found such a complaint on FR, how many DUers would believe it?

The reports I'm seeing are pretty vague. As a long-time computer systems administrator I can assure you that people do sometimes make mistakes and blame it on machines.

[EFerrari]

24. You know, there was a report that "more than a dozen" NJ voters

tried to vote for the Republican in the Senate race and the machine was frozen to the Democrat.

It sounds fishy, though. When have there ever been "more than a dozen" voters that lodged a complaint like this? :tinfoilhat:

[Kip Humphrey]

25. Don't be so sure... Karl Rove's gambit is in play:

See my post:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2601452&mesg_id=2601774

[starmaker]

29. Virginia?

n/t

[file83]

27. The CEO's of those companies should GO directly to jail. Do NOT collect $200.

I mean, WTF? If I owned a company and supplied a product that committed election fraud, I'd expect to go to jail.