CUYAHOGA COUNTY: MASSIVE Punchcard machine outages

[Chili]

Excuse me while I break something. I'm going over the 1244 reports from Cuyahoga County made to the EIR and I'm discovering for the 1st time HOW MANY PUNCHCARD MACHINES WERE DOWN on election day. One entire polling place had to be shut down as of 3:30 in the afternoon. This is OUTRAGEOUS. These are my neighbors, and I'm so angry I can't type. I live in a mixed suburb in Cuyahoga County, and I notice that there are NO REPORTS - NOT ONE - of machines being down in my suburb, nor in any affluent white suburb. There is a report from Parma and one from W. 150th - blue collar, mostly Republican - but that's it. LOOK AT ALL THEM: 99% of these broken machines are in black communities of Cleveland, some very poor, some even in Shaker Hts. PUNCHCARDS! Suburbs with no reports of broken machines surround these areas in all directions. It's so obvious that this was intentional that I can't believe it wouldn't stand up in court.

https://voteprotect.org/index.php?display=EIRMapCounty&tab=ALL&state=Ohio&cat=02&start_time=&start_date=&end_time=&end_date=&search=&county=Cuyahoga

It's shocking - I shouldn't be shocked, but I am.

I'm keeping track of it here: http://shadowbox.i8.com/machines.htm#ohio

...and of voter suppression here: http://shadowbox.i8.com/suppression.htm#ohio

I'll have to do something about that "punchcard" column, it's so distorted now with all the reports from different precincts that I'll have to reformat it.

STEAMED IN OHIO

[LisaL]

1. Well, it's rather obvious-

you can not count the votes of people who were never able to vote due to limited access to voting machines. But hey, we should all be concerned with the election FRAUD in Ukraine, who cares about OH?
:nuke:

[rjbny62]

73. right....fraud can't happen here anyway, so why waste time looking

these things only happen in places like the Ukraine, right? That is the "reality" that people are supposed to believe......it should be easy for members of the "reality based" community to accept.

[LisaLynne]

2. You are doing great work!

I know it's frustrating, but we need you! Hang in there!!

But, it's just appalling, isn't it??? How can we allow this to continue? We can't. We just can't. It's so blatant!

[Chili]

3. thank you...

I'm so mad I could cry.

[proudtobeadem]

6. Send this to everyone, including Jesse Jackson, he's having a rally in

Ohio tomorrow.

[Chili]

14. I'm still compiling, too...

I will - thank you!

[Straight Shooter]

4. Chili, be sure PM geo on DU and give him this info

He started a thread about Equal Protection Clause, which relates directly to what you have discovered (uncovered):
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=79652&mesg_id=79652

"EQUAL PROTECTION CLAUSE - Portion of the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution that prohibits discrimination by state government institutions. The clause grants all people "equal protection of the laws," which means that the states must apply the law equally and cannot give preference to one person or class of persons over another. (courtesy http://www.lectlaw.com/def/e027.htm )

Bush voters over voters for other candidates, white rural voters over minority urban voters, etc. This vote was clearly a violation of the 14th amendment, but is it the basis for a legal challenge? What evidentiary basis do we need to prove the case? Any precident for such an action?

If anyone is interested in getting a lawyers take on this, please keep kicking this thread until we see some good analysis. I can't believe for a second that the procedural laws governing elections override the 14th amendment. Also, there is likely a litany of case law regarding the burden of proof in dicrimination cases.

[Chili]

16. thank you, I just did!

SOMETHING has to be done about this...

[Eloriel]

5. Chili --

What a GREAT resource you've built there. Outtasight!

I've sent this to hedda-foil to pass on to the OH recount team. So, IOW, thanks for the rant -- it might make a difference. ;-)

[Chili]

17. I hope so...

I'm a child of the 70's, so I grew up believing that Jim Crow days were over. I got complacent and comfortable - we probably all have. That's why this is such a shock. Head is OUT of the sand now.

[goclark]

37. This is our final wake up call!

I am still amazed that many Democrats are afraid to call it "fraud" or get the Republicans mad at them.

Get mad at us!

[progressoid]

7. Is the local media up to speed on this or just ignoring it again? nt

[Chili]

19. NO - NOT AT ALL

...in fact, I added an article today to the main page (http://shadowbox.i8.com/stolen.htm) from the website of one of the most popular Cleveland network news program: http://www.newsnet5.com/news/3889129/detail.html

Dumbasses. If they mentioned it on the local news, I missed it. This is the first I've heard of any punchcard machines being down in Cleveland at ALL.

[progressoid]

22. Dumbasses is right

I like this quote "Unofficial voter turnout of about 70 percent slightly missed predictions despite relentless get-out-the-vote encouragement and record voting lines"

Well duh - if the machines aren't working or thousands of people have to leave because they can't stand in line for half a day, of course turnout would miss the prediction of 73%

[Truman01]

8. Wow, I have a question....

How in the hell does a punchcard machine go down? They are manual aren't they? How do they "break down?" This is certainly terrilbe. It just doesn't make any sense.

[LisaL]

10. I think you put your punch card in some sort of device.

[Chili]

20. I know... I wondered that myself...

...until I read the individual reports. What happens is the chads build up under the cards until the stylus can no longer punch out the holes. Think of a hand-held hole-puncher for loose-leaf notebook paper: once you've punched out about 20 sheets of papers, those round pieces just build up in the little catch-all at the bottom of the hole-puncher until you can't punch holes any more. Same thing... except THEY NEVER EMPTY IT OUT. You would think, after allll we heard about this stuff in 2000 from Florida, somebody, somewhere, would put out the directive MAKE SURE TO EMPTY THE TRAYS. Apparently, they weren't trained to do it, weren't told to do it, or deliberately ignored the problem. Any guess as to the combination of those possibilities. I'd say, probably mixed.

In one precinct, a voter TOLD the precinct judge of the problem, and he was "shushed"... and told not to say anything to other voters. I swear - it's right there in the reports!

Unbelievable.

[Dolphyn]

36. They probably had some extra chads superglued ...

underneath the punch-hole for Kerry, making it extra difficult to vote for him.

:eyes:

[KaliTracy]

9. you are not alone

Chili: the day after the election when all of the reports were coming in for people standing in line for hours steamed me to no end (I had *no* trouble voting) -- I finally sent a letter to a lot of places ( http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=80851&mesg_id=82110 )

NPR, Tavis Smiley, Diane Rehm, Ellen Goodman all got versions of this letter -- (I didn't deal with my local papers). I then sent it to several Democratic Headquarters -- the only one who responded to me is Hamilton County (I live in Butler County). I was told in tone, and words not to think that it was partisan, that there weren't long lines in Hamilton, etc. plus some other things mentioned in the above letter. I responded that I was outraged that there could be such disparity *throughout* Ohio. He said our district had more machines because we were using the less expensive punch card machines, and that in hamilton county an allocation of 1 machine per 99 people was the norm.... (I truly think it was much higher than that for our neighborhood, and I truly think this is WRONG.)

I live in West Chester -- Bush Rallied here with 50,000 supporters... need i say more?

are you going to the rally tomorrow?

tracy

[Chili]

21. I wish I could go to the rally, I can't...

...I have an important project I'm supposed to be working on that I have to devote tomorrow to... but I'd love to go.

And I know what you mean - since it didn't happen in other punchcard locations, it's not important, right? Jesus! Remember in 2000 we learned that some of the punchcard chad trays had NEVER been emptied? And chads had been piling up for years? I can't believe NO ONE at the Bd of Elections (!) remembered this or thought to make sure the trays were emptied.

'Course, it only takes a couple of minutes to realize you could PUT something under there to blunt the stylus. Not sayin', just sayin'.

And I also had no problem voting. We had 200 people in line in the building where I voted, 6 precincts. Lines snaked around all over the place, yet there was no intimidation, the stylus cleanly took out my chads (I checked), and it only took me an hour for the whole process. I can only imagine the nightmare of my less fortunate neighbors.

Tracy, also meant to say, that was an excellent letter - and the next thing I'm going to do is take the reports of how many booths are in some of these precincts, and compare them to how many registered voters are in the precinct. Then compare that to any data I can find on other precincts within the county. I think somebody had started this somewhere, but now I don't remember where I saw it.

[consciousobjector]

24. I don't understand what's going on with

the Democratic leadership in Ohio...why are they making excuses for the obvious and inexcusable inequities in this election?

I've been trying to contact my county party leaders to find out what's going on with the recount efforts and whether anyone is organizing rides to the rally in Columbus tomorrow...nothing. I've contacted the Green party, so I will be helping with the recount, but they seem swamped by the whole endeavor. WTF is wrong with the Dems? Do they want to lose everyone? Or do they think we're just the fringe and that they don't need us? Hell we were the ones that worked our asses off for them. Where are they?...

[Truman01]

11. Good work Chilli.... n/t

[Chili]

23. thank you!

...it's a labor of... FURY. LOL.

[Straight Shooter]

33. May the labor of FURY give birth to the child called JUSTICE

:toast:

[EndElectoral]

12. Question: When poll closed, were voters given provisionals?

[Chili]

25. there are reports of people not told about provisional ballots...

...of poll workers not knowing what provisional ballots were, and of voters being REFUSED provisional ballots.

Ugh. I'm getting sick again.

Go to that EIR site -
https://voteprotect.org/index.php?display=EIRMapCounty&tab=ALL&state=Ohio&cat=02&start_time=&start_date=&end_time=&end_date=&search=&county=Cuyahoga

- and choose the "provisional ballot" section, and you'll see them all.

[KaliTracy]

28. they were allowed to stand in line

if they were already in line -- except I recall that he closed some areas even if there were people in the line.

He also moved to change the Provisional ballot law at the End of September.
from The Columbus Free Press http://www.freepress.org/columns/display/3/2004/983

"Republican Secretary of State Blackwell reversed a long-standing Ohio practice and is barring voters from casting provisional ballots within their county if they are registered to vote but there's been a mistake about where they are expected to cast their ballot. In this year's spring primaries, Blackwell allowed voters to cast provisional ballots by county, even if they were in the wrong precinct. But this fall, voters had to leave if they were in the wrong precinct and find their way to the right one even though they had waited in line two to three hours. Blackwell hopes to succeed Republican Bob Taft as governor, and has labored hard to install Diebold e-voting machines with no paper trail throughout Ohio. Blackwell is being widely compared to the infamous Katherine Harris, who handed Florida to George W. Bush in 2000 and was rewarded with a safe Congressional seat. Representative Stephanie Tubbs Jones accused Blackwell of seeking “to disenfranchise the people of the state of Ohio.” Tubbs Jones pointed out that the 2000 census had caused massive redistricting, particularly within inner city precincts, which would lead to many people ending up at the wrong voting site."

PS-- Looks like something happened in Columbus November 3rd -- But I never heard anything about it.... http://www.resist.com.au/comments/c974.asp

tracy

[RaulVB]

13. Good God!

You really need to send this note to all the media outlets you can.

No matter who, just send it!

It is IMPOSSIBLE to think that these episodes are merely "accidental."

Regards.

[KaliTracy]

15. look at these graphics from VotersUnite

Country Election Problems -- http://www.votersunite.org/info/mapflyer2004.htm

Ohio Election Problems -- http://www.votersunite.org/info/mapflyerohio2004.htm

From

VotersUnite.org
--tracy

[RaulVB]

18. Voting "apartheid"

If this election is accepted as valid, that will mean the recognition or "racial voting apartheid" in the USA.

I can't believe what I'm learning!

[Chili]

27. I know... and the problem is...

...these have been reported all along, but embedded in tiny little paragraphs throughout the print media - you can see them being mentioned, but the "journalists" are just noting these incidents in passing, in articles entitled "High Voter Turnout" or "Few Problems Reported" or "Electronic Machines Pass Their Biggest Tests" or some such fluff. FOLLOW UP. There's NO follow-up on these stories! And part of the problem is that the reports are sooooo overwhelming. I've been upset and obsessing over all of this for 3 weeks, now, and even I'm just now slogging through that mountain of reports called in on the EIR database. It's too much, it takes time and none of us really has that. So no one in the media - unless they're dedicating themselves to it, like Fritakis or Palast - is taking the time to amass all this info (and they're labeled "conspiracy theorists" for their trouble). So we have to do it for them.

[RaulVB]

59. That is because...

The American media is not under pressure from the viewer/consumer.

They can lie, ignore the news and manipulate the facts because they are not held accountable by the people.

[Straight Shooter]

35. "Voting apartheid" -- that's the theme.

Thank you for reminding me of that word. "Racist" is too strong for some people's stomachs, and it doesn't encompass the whole scenario.

Apartheid. Please PM geo with that word. He's working on a thread about challenging the election due to minority voter suppression. "Apartheid" is the word to frame the debate.

"a social policy or racial segregation involving political and economic and legal discrimination against non-whites; the former official policy in South Africa"

[RaulVB]

57. I did

Thanks for the heads up.

[illuminaughty]

38. Can I steal that for a sign?

What a great way to put it.

[RaulVB]

58. Please do!

Glad to help.

[Chili]

26. Tracy, that site is EXCELLENT!

...and the maps wonderful! VotersUnite is the other critical source - and even though there aren't the personal anecdotal stories, the fact that all the reports are backed up by documented news reports and articles collected by VotersUnite is crucial. I can just see media-types poo-pooing all the calls to the EIR help center if they want to be jerks and keep their eyes closed; but all these reports are reflected, one way or another, in the articles that VotersUnite posts. VotersUnite and the EIR reports corrobarate the facts. And it's so important that the articles are archived, too - that way, even news reports that disappear from the net can be used as evidence!

THANK YOU!

[KaliTracy]

34. thank *You*...

You are doing a very important job. The more that is put out there for people to read and reflect on, the better.

I started crunching numbers right after this all happened -- trying to determine *something* between the 2000 election and the 2004 election and the primary/general elections.

But I was not getting any sleep at all.... and I backed away a little 'cause I didn't think it was getting anywhere. You, on the other hand ARE getting somewhere!

Thanks! :-)

tracy

[illuminaughty]

39. Chili, we had a rally today

in K.C. and we had signs that led people to the voter unite site. Can you believe we made the local NBC affiliate news?

Like you, I think this is what sickens me the most. This is why I asked for a disenfranchised precinct. The tactics used makes it seem like these Sec. of State's had an exact rule book to follow.

[Chili]

45. I believe they did...

...have a "rulebook." It may be hard to prove without concrete smoking-gun documentation, but the results + motive + aggressive partisan behavior can't be ignored. Because no matter how you look at it, the Bd of Elections and the Secretary of State should've been prepared for a massive turnout - a turnout predicted for months in advance. And if they turn around and blame the lack of working machines and long lines ON the turnout itself, that doesn't wash either, since Republican GOTV was so high that it equalled the Democrats... right? Yeah, right. So then they must explain why Republican precincts got extra machines while machines were pulled from Democratic strongholds.

Uh-huh.

And good for KC! If this goes on around the country, and grows into a real movement, they'll have to take notice!

[Stand and Fight]

29. Good God...

This is making me ill reading all of this. How is it that the dammed MSM can possibly think that this election was valid at all? All of these reports alone -- aside from the fraud that surely occurred -- should make the election invalid.

[KaliTracy]

30. but it "wouldn't change anything"

isn't that what they say -- that they expect to lose 3% of the votes cast.... *shaking head*

this is much worse -- but one wonders.... was it always like this? and we're just more aware because of the massive mistakes last time?

tracy

[Chili]

32. that's right...

...fraud is there, and may even be proven. But this? THIS is even more appalling than fraud. Because it effects people directly and is right "in their face." I can only imagine the frustration of overcoming all of this, and continuing to stand in line, having heard all the reports of misinformation and intimidation and challengers in the polls... and then have your vote THROWN OUT because the chad wasn't pushed in far enough! And THEN, insult on top of injury, you're told over and over that the election was fair and went smoothly. It's a f-ing outrage.

[Pirate Smile]

31. Don't forget to send it to the GAO for their investigation. Hopefully,

it will be worth something but I won't hold my breath.

[Lil]

40. I sent this to others I know who are researching OH. Thanks for your inf.

btw - I am having trouble with the site:
https://voteprotect.org

Is it overloaded or. . .?

[Chili]

43. yes, so am I...

The links are not really to "searches" but to paths I'm clicking on, like "Ohio > Cuyahoga > 141 Other (Incidents)." Since I didn't enter any criteria for a true search, the URLs should be direct, but they're not - they keep flipping back to the blank search page. I'm thinking heavy traffic might be causing a problem... which doesn't help, if the links are to provide evidence. So - LOL, I'm going to regret this! - I'm downloading the data in state increments into my own spreadsheets - thank goodness they provided this option, it makes it easier to solve this link problem - and I will put it in html form. It will take a while, but it'll be done.

[sandnsea]

41. Oh bless your little heart

Do you have everything in your spread sheets? All the main voting problems?

[Chili]

44. EIRS has it in THEIR spreadsheets...

...all I'm doing is linking to them in an html table. But I'm going to start downloading their spreadsheets because the search links aren't stable, they keep changing the link to a blank search screen. But I hope to get as much in as I can. Thank you!

[Senator]

42. This is why we ALL...

...MUST change the FRAME

[stella2cat]

46. Chili, I've been looking at Cuyahoga also and I've got a spreadsheet

I identifed the machine problem precincts by precinct name and #, so I have counts from each one

here's some info:

In 11 of the precincts with machine problems, Kerry received LESS votes than Gore in 2000. In these 11, Kerry had -700, while Bush had +395

78 precincts had machine problems. In these precincts, demo gain over 2000 was 33.62%, while repug gain was 44.48%

Demo turnout in these 78 precincts appears to be 45.63% (61,564 registered, 28,095 votes cast for Kerry)

I'd love it if someone would verify my results, I'm bleary-eyed from staring at excel so many days in a row

[lawladyprof]

47. Well, it probably would stand up in court if tied to

Something even easier to establish--fewer voting machines in Black precincts (see Equal Protection thread--http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x79652). And see http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x84787 (fewer voting machines in Black precincts in Franklin County, Ohio).

And that feeds more neatly into a remedy that might reverse the Ohio result. What remedy would the courts give for spoiled ballots that could affect this election? Nevertheless, the equipment problems in Black precincts (poorer equipment for Black precincts buttresses the whole Equal Protection argument). From my post on the Equal Protection thread

I've been thinking a lot about a remedy. Splitting the
electors is one, but last night I thought about a limited
revote. Those voters in minority precincts where, according
to the evidence, too few machines had been allocated (say
relative to the county as whole, relative to White
precincts)would be allowed a late vote if they signed an affidavit
that they had been in line on election day and left because of long
delays (due to the small number of voting machines). The
Republicans would scream that you'd have fraud (deliciously
ironic if you could show that it was a Republican who
allocated the machines), but the beauty of this is that it
is closely tied to the harm done. A narrowly tailored remedy indeed.

One argument might be that they could cast provisional ballots. Question--could cast provisional ballots only after polls closed? That doesn't address many of those harmed by the misallocation of machines. They stood in line for four, five, six hours and then left. They didn't know that if they stayed in line an additional hour or two they would get to cast provisional ballots. I seem to remember that provisional ballot decision coming down late. And in any case, it is fundmentally unfair (and a result of machine misallocation) to make people wait X hours when their fellow voters who are White only have to wait Y minutes or an hour or two at most.

Race may not play well in the court of public opinion but it is the best shot in the courts because of precedent and as Laelth said the reluctance of the courts to overturn legislative and administrative decisions and policies.

[texpatriot2004]

48. Kick

[lawladyprof]

49. I believe this may help. Precinct level demographics

http://fairplan.u31.infinology.net/

[texpatriot2004]

50. kick

[texpatriot2004]

51. kick

[4democracy]

52. have you added this to http://www.votersunite.org/electionproblems?

[texpatriot2004]

53. kick

[texpatriot2004]

54. kick

[stella2cat]

55. I've got a spreadsheet and I'm not afraid to use it......

I apologize, I already posted this, but am hoping the subject will grab someone's attention

I've identifed the machine problem precincts by precinct name and #, so I have counts from each one

here's some info:

In 11 of the precincts with machine problems, Kerry received LESS votes than Gore in 2000. In these 11, Kerry had -700, while Bush had +395

78 precincts had machine problems. In these precincts, demo gain over 2000 was 33.62%, while repug gain was 44.48%

Demo turnout in these 78 precincts appears to be 45.63% (61,564 registered, 28,095 votes cast for Kerry)

I'd love it if someone would verify my results, I'm bleary-eyed from staring at excel so many days in a row. I can email the excel

[texpatriot2004]

56. kick

[YellowDoginthehouse]

60. kick

:kick:

[IndyOp]

61. kick

:kick:

[Chili]

62. thank you Stella2cat!

...can you post a link to it? jmknapp posted an excellent map and spreadsheet already, but you may have even more data...

Also, I've updated the pages:

http://shadowbox.i8.com/stolen.htm

...and created a page for Cuyhahoga County:

http://shadowbox.i8.com/Suppression/ohio/ohiomachines.htm

It's not finished, I still need to add the low turnout % figures that jmknapp provided (you rock, Joe!), but it's a start.

I can see - sort of - in a general way *rolls eyes* why journalists are afraid of this issue. I'm burning with it, pissed off as hell, and I stared at the screen for the longest time trying to figure out what I wanted to say on that page. It finally came out, I know I'm missing all kinds of points, but I'll add them...

[stella2cat]

64. hi Chili, I don't know how to make a link for the spreadsheet

I'm a newbie here. Can you help me post it?
thanks

[noclonyofthechimp]

63. Great work! Thank You. Send it to "People for the American Way"

Jesse Jackson, John Kerry - "kerry.senate.gov".

[Shalom]

65. Karl Rove's Reply: Disadvantaged Commited Vandalism !!

Let's all give Karl Rove a little "demonstration" of how dis-enfranchised voters react to the the theft of their rights...

[stella2cat]

66. Can someone here help a newbie post something?

I have an enhanced version of jmknapp's speadsheet for Cuyahoga with 2000 data, machine problem precincts, and a couple more things

thanks

[skids]

67. Link to my EIRS summary

On DU: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=201x5879

It's also on RASgroup, if you poke around.


Also: It would help if folks would also check, or better yet, post to, the Voting Issues forum from time to time. Traffic there is really low, and those of you who only read this forum are missing some good articles.

[stella2cat]

68. kick

[JPZenger]

69. Happened in 70s too

History keeps repeating itself. In the 1970s, when Frank Rizzo was Mayor of Philadelphia, the oldest and most poorly maintained voting machines were delivered to the all-Black wards. Guess what happened? They jammed.

[googly]

70. I am confused ! Are'nt the heavily democratic counties run by dem

officials? That should be obvious! So why the fuck did they
neglect keeping those machines in good working order? Fucking
unbelievable. Reminds me of the butterfly ballots in Florida
designed by the democrat supervisor, whats her name.

[truehawk]

72. What's her name was a Republican who registered as a Demo and now is a Ind

[cybildisobedience]

71. good for you --

for channeling your anger and frustration into something productive.
It's people like you who are are only hope.

[Stand and Fight]

74. Yeah, I think it's safe to say....

We are screwed. The media has their heads up their butts, and our Democratic leadership has becoming an international laughing stock. But hey! We now have a "war room" to deal with assaults on our honor -- to hell with dealing with assaults on our right to have our votes counted and namely our democracy.

[truehawk]

75. kick